AMI Pete Rose 1978 Steak bat..huh?

[33bird]

AMI states that their Pete Rose R195 game used bat was most likely used during his 44 hit streak bat during the San Diego series. The bat is only 33 inches long! and 32 ounces. Pete just told me last weekend that he used the same bat the whole streak. I highly doubt that this is the bat. Can someone verify if Pete ever ordered a 33 inch bat during the 78 season? Thanks!

[sportscentury]

AMI states that their Pete Rose R195 game used bat was most likely used during his 44 hit streak bat during the San Diego series. The bat is only 33 inches long! and 32 ounces. Pete just told me last weekend that he used the same bat the whole streak. I highly doubt that this is the bat. Can someone verify if Pete ever ordered a 33 inch bat during the 78 season? Thanks!

I have copied hand-written order records for Pete Rose (thanks to veteran Rose collector Chuck Lumb). They are a little hard to read, but it appears that on 8/28/78 Rose ordered one batch of L.S. R195 bats of 33 inches in length and 33/34 ounces (Mike Specht can correct this if it is wrong). It doesn't sound like this is a match with the AMI bat.

As for Rose, I know you had a terrific recent experience with him, and I'm glad about that. But you should keep in mind that he's a known chronic liar who is still very angry that others made money from his game used equipment without him getting a cut. How do I know this? I watched him literally flip out about it at a show a couple of years back. I'm not saying to forget everything he told you, but you may not want to treat his word as gospel when it comes to collecting his items. As for AMI, you know they will say just about anything to peddle an item. You may want to hold off and stick to collecting true gems like the Rose bat you posted about recently.

Just my 2 cents. Hope this was helpful.

[yanks12025]

sportscentury,
Wouldn't 33 inches and 32 ounces match his records of 33 inches and 33/34 ounces because it could have lost a ounce since then.

[MSpecht]

Hi Greg--

In Pete's documented H & B records from the labeling period 1977-79, out of 31 separate orders of all models, virtually all orders were in length of 35 inches with the following exceptions: two orders of 34 inch bats (Sept 1978), 2 orders of 34.5 inch bats (1978) and a single order of two 33 inch / 33-34 oz / wax finish model R195 bats on 8/28/78. Looking at the auction write-up, this bat, assuming it came from the single documented order, was manufactured after the hit streak (6/14/78 to 8/1/78) had ended (as noted correctly in the description as the bat is attributed only to the hit streak season in the title and Gonzalez' acquisition is attributed to after the streak had ended.) BUT, it also was manufactured after the two SD - Cinn series referenced in the write-up. HOWEVER , SD played two series against Cinn following the 8/28/78 order date -- at Cincy 9/7/78 and 9/8/98 and at SD on 9/13/78 and 9/14/78, during either of which Gonzalez could have acquired the bat from Pete.


Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[sportscentury]

sportscentury,
Wouldn't 33 inches and 32 ounces match his records of 33 inches and 33/34 ounces because it could have lost a ounce since then.

Yanks -- could be, my man. But remember, Pete never gave away any of his game used equipment. :rolleyes:

I don't know if the bat is good or not. Mike Specht can offer his expert comments. I do know that I would never deal with AMI, no matter what the circumstances.

[sportscentury]

Mike posted as I was typing my last response. One thing is for sure, the bat is not from Pete's hit streak, and it was not obtained during either of the series listed in the AMI description.

[suave1477]

JUST FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE.........

AMI doesn't say this bat is from his hit streak. But they do try to imply it could be.

The title itself doesn't even state is is from his hit streak. It just lists it as from that season.

Seems AMI is trying to implicate (when) the bat was actually given to Gonzalez, by saying it was most likely given to him when they played each other. Basically leaving it open for you to believe it could have been during the streak. When in all honesty the bat could of really been given to Gonzalez at anytime.

I would be curious to see what the actual Player LOA says.

Now the next question is does Gonzalez really remember when he actually received that bat from Rose????:rolleyes:

[hrvatwill]

A picture of the Player LOA is now posted in which Gonzalez states that he received the bat during the streak. However, in the description AMI casts doubt on that notion by stating that the Reds and Padres actually played in the first series after the streak had ended.

I didn't read the auction description until reading through this thread so based on what has been written, it appears as though the description was modified.

Hope Fernando's memory with respect to who gave him the suitcase in the auction is better than that :)

[sportscentury]

Again, the bat could not have been acquired by Gonzalez when the AMI geniuses speculate.

In the auction description, they state:
Authentication comes vis a Gonzalez signed personal letter. The letter states that he got the bat when Rose was going after Joe DiMaggio's hit streak. In actuality, the Padres and Reds played August 4-6, the series after Rose's streak had ended. The bat was most-likely secured during that series although the two played in San Diego Aug. 10-13.

Rose's sole order of 33" bats, as Mike and I stated earlier, was on 8/28/78. See Mike's post where he talks about when the bat may have been acquired by Gonzalez.

AMI still lists John Taube under their authenticators. If they actually had John evaluate this bat, I'm sure he quickly would have explained all of this to them.

[suicide_squeeze]

You guys surely can understand.......

When guys like Gonzalez decide to rid themselves of a bat like this one, given to them by another player, they don't have a clue as to this site, or guys like us that can actually use info that will prove they are tools, lying to gain whatever they can with wrongfully including false little white lies as "provenance" for what they are selling.

But they do. And here is a case in point. This is nothing more than a bat, ordered by Rose for the rare occasion that he either:

A) Is facing a fire-ball pitcher that he needs a smaller bat to get around on;

B) Just happened to order for a rare game where he's truly tired and doesn't want to be swinging a 35" or 36" tree limb.

It's NOT a popular well-used bat of Rose's, nor is it one he placed a lot of orders for.

I would guess someone would have a tough time (if not IMPOSSIBLE task) picture matching him in a professional at bat swinging this (or it's twin-sister bat ordered) by Rose in a regularly scheduled game during the later part of 1978. My guess is he probably laced a ball or two in the cage in batting practice to see how it felt....and subsequently gave it away to Gonzalez when the request was made for one of his bats. Why this bat? Because Pete probably knew the chances he would use it would be close to nil....or worse yet, maybe he didn't like the feel of it.

[kingjammy24]

AMI still lists John Taube under their authenticators. If they actually had John evaluate this bat, I'm sure he quickly would have explained all of this to them.

PSA is listed as the specific authenticator for this particular bat. in general, it would be nice for auction houses to post the actual letters for collectors to view, instead of cherrypicking and modifying things from those letters to suit their purposes, eg:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=25072

reid, perhaps you can email john to ask him for the letter on this particular bat. i'm all out of energy for today. in the past, john has always replied to me promptly and provided such info. it would be interesting to see any differences between john's letter and the AMI write-up wouldn't it?

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

my mistake..PSA is not listed. looks like its coasting on the player's letter.

rudy.

[33bird]

No, I agree. I had a good experience with Pete, but you're preaching to the choir as they say. I know Pete has a history of lying, of course, and even he admitted he can't remember a lot about his gamers. This bat just doesn't seem right. A 33 inch bat? In the 70's the majority of his bats were 35 inches long. The ounces are also off by a couple. I think Pete gave this guy some crap bat he didn't even care about. I hate AMI anyway, but I don't like the bat either.

[SSB15]

The way the bat is listed is very misleading. I am sure that it was not done by mistake. Probably trying to catch someone who does not read the entire listing..

AM got me once about 8 years ago on another misleading description of a Rose bat. Turned out to be a gift shop bt.

Just shows you that you must know the item you are bidding on and cannot rely upon AM to authenticate an item.