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View Full Version : OT : Marlins rookie pays fan 'ransom' for HR ball



Lokee
05-15-2009, 10:49 AM
MILWAUKEE (AP) - The joy Florida Marlins (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71614) rookie Chris Coghlan (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/641463) felt after hitting his first major league home run was tempered slightly by the hardball negotiations he went through to reclaim the souvenir.
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Coghlan's home run was caught Wednesday night by a Milwaukee Brewers (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71594) fan who refers to himself as "The Happy Youngster" and claims on his blog to have caught nearly 50 homers.
And while Coghlan said the fan was willing to give the ball back, the man's original asking price was a lot higher than the Marlins (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71614) rookie outfielder anticipated.
"He wasn't the most polite or respectful guy about the whole process," Coghlan said Thursday. "He told me he goes around a lot and catches these balls and holds them for ransom — even though he doesn't say that he does, it seems that way."
But the fan, Nick Yohanek, insisted Coghlan could have been more respectful to him.
"I explained that ballhawking is my hobby and that what I was asking in return was fair," Yohanek said Thursday, in an e-mail to The Associated Press. "I told him I make $50,000 a year working in law enforcement and that I didn't feel like I was asking for too much. He responded, 'Good for you.' Real classy. Way to respect law enforcement. Way to respect a fan."


Players who achieve personal milestones often want to keep the ball as a souvenir, and in all but the most high-profile cases — such as a record-setting home run ball that might fetch big money at an auction — it has become standard practice for the player to give the fan who caught it a souvenir such as a signed bat in return.

Coghlan said he gave the fan a signed bat and took a photo with him after Wednesday's game. As Coghlan discovered, that only seemed like a starting point for further negotiations.
"Then he wanted other things that I didn't think (were) fair," Coghlan said.
Coghlan said the fan also asked for tickets to one of the Marlins (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71614)' upcoming games against the New York Yankees (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71596), along with a ball and signed bat from Coghlan's more famous Marlins (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71614) teammate, Hanley Ramirez (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/288165).
"I was trying to be as nice and respectful as I could," Coghlan said. "But I told him he could only get one."
Yohanek, who says he has caught a total of 49 home runs, offered a significantly different version of the episode.
Yohanek said his negotiations for the ball began with several members of the Marlins (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71614)' staff — and after his request for a Ramirez bat was turned down, he requested tickets not for the Yankees (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71596) series, but for a Brewers (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71594)-Marlins series at Florida in June.
"I had wanted to attend this series anyway," Yohanek said. "Considering (Marlins) attendance is barely over 15,000 nightly, I didn't feel like this was too much to ask."
Yohanek said he eventually handed over the ball for the promise of tickets to the Brewers (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71594)-Marlins series, a bat with the inscription "To Nick, thanks for catching my 1st home run," and a photo with Coghlan.
"While posing for the photo, he said, 'You gonna give me the ball, man, or what?"' Yohanek said. "After he was given the home run ball, he stormed off without a word. Only to return and say, 'Why y'all gotta hold my ball for ransom?' I hold balls for ransom? Those are Chris Coghlan (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/641463)'s words, not mine."

Lokee
05-15-2009, 10:51 AM
didn't really come out here is the link

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9574486/Coghlan-miffed-by-fan%27s-home-run-%27ransom%27

I thought it was very interesting.

eisenreich8
05-15-2009, 10:57 AM
Shameful behavior from the fan.

buc
05-15-2009, 11:14 AM
He is a member of this forum, but don't know when he last posted.

orioles03
05-15-2009, 11:16 AM
i had to get two homeruns back from fans before the first one was in 2003 jose morban hit his first hr which was his first career hit the fan wanted autographed bats of 4 players so we gave him the bats and the guy gave him the ball

the second one was jeremy reed of the mariners he hit his first homerun i think it hit off the foulpole the ball girl gave it to a kid in the first row .the hitting coach told me at the end of the game that the ball was his first homerun so at the end of the game i ran down to where the guy was sitting i told him he would like to talk to him .the guy said all he wants is another ball so i had the guy come to the visitors dugout they gave him a box of used b.p. balls that were used the guy was hapy

mbrieve
05-15-2009, 11:28 AM
The fans side of the story:

http://thehappyyoungster.mlblogs.com/

commando
05-15-2009, 11:49 AM
As much as I would love to hate the fan, this whole event really seems like a non-issue. Based on the headline, I thought that maybe the fan was asking for a bunch of cash or tons of equipment. But actually, I think the fan's request was reasonable except for the Hanley Ramirez bat (Hanley is the only person who has the right to give away his own equipment).

BorchertField
05-15-2009, 03:02 PM
The fans side of the story:

http://thehappyyoungster.mlblogs.com/

He still comes off like a bit of a jerk.

godwulf
05-15-2009, 03:15 PM
To my way of thinking, asking for some other player's bat may not be all that unreasonable...but it's just about as rude as you can get, and I, personally, would never do it. If you want a Hanley Ramirez bat, catch a ball off of one that Hanley wants back. The other is just embarrassing.

Vintagedeputy
05-15-2009, 03:37 PM
We may never know which side is telling the truth but I find it hard to believe that a rookie ballplayer would be so rude to a fan who caught his first HR ball, unless he was provoked in some manner.

David
05-15-2009, 04:54 PM
My question is how much was the fan charged for beer and parking. Then I can decide if there was a ransom.

David
05-15-2009, 05:03 PM
If the rules say fans get to keep balls they catch, then the fan can keep it. If MLB wants to and can change these rules, then change the rules.

mbrieve
05-15-2009, 05:29 PM
Ok, I've read the news accounts and his own account on his blog and I have come to the following conclusions:

1. This guy is strange and is a Zach Hample clone. I can't say I like either of them very much.
2. His demands, whether you believe him or the Marlins, were not over the top - heck, I would have asked for more. After being treated that way, I would have kept the ball.
3. I'm sure both parties were equally irritated and angry, but by looking at the "meeting" photo - it seems like Coghlan is a real jerkoff. There seemed to be such a sense of entitlement. Again, after all of this, I would have given Coughlan and the Marlins my contact info and told them I am keeping it. If they ever change their mind, call me.

Just my .02

eisenreich8
05-15-2009, 07:10 PM
I do not endeavor to contradict or pass judgment on what ANYONE else in his situation would have done, but I will take the time to very sincerely and honestly state what I would have done.

I would have taken the ball down to the officials and handed it over. No strings. No comp. No nothing. Seriously, that is precisely what I know I would do in that situation. My feelings on this are personal but I would have returned the ball to Coghlan

eisenreich8
05-15-2009, 07:15 PM
Dang I didn't finish my post before submitting! Anyway, I would have returned it to him because him having made it to The Show and probably the biggest moment of his life, what would it be that I would want done for me if that were my first homer in the majors? I just know that I have all the material stuff I really ever want and this ball or the profit from it would be diminished by my own sense of self.

Corny as it may sound, I can think back to my youth and I know that this is what my parents would want me to do, put the player first as the player is who it's all about anyway. I just paid to get entertained, but the ball would really mean more to him, and hence, I would derive greatest satisfaction from returning it with no conditions.

Others' opinions will vary...........

BamaHater
05-15-2009, 07:20 PM
I had the opportunity of catching Morgan Ensberg's 1st grand slam ball. I realized what it meant to him so when he said he wanted it and offered one of his game bats that he autographed I took it. I was not looking to extort the man. At the time is was in college and had no job.

allstarsplus
05-15-2009, 08:00 PM
In the heat of the moment, both guys might have perceived things differently. Why jump to conclusions in a "He said, he said".

It all worked out and the player got the ball.

Talking about HRs, how many of these idiots catch the opponents HR and then throw the balls back on to the field just to be scooped up by the team. What a waste!

To me, what a great collectible to get a HR ball!!!!

orioles03
05-15-2009, 08:12 PM
In the heat of the moment, both guys might have perceived things differently. Why jump to conclusions in a "He said, he said".

It all worked out and the player got the ball.

Talking about HRs, how many of these idiots catch the opponents HR and then throw the balls back on to the field just to be scooped up by the team. What a waste!

To me, what a great collectible to get a HR ball!!!!

that was the best thing when fans would throw back hr the players would always toss it to me in the dugout so the nest time i see the player i would getthe ball signed .i also liked when a ball would land in the bull pen the bullpen catcher would always get the balls and give them to me to get signed i probally had over 20 hr balls all signed andi would give them to friends or family

eisenreich8
05-15-2009, 08:35 PM
PAT said: "gave them to friends and family".......

Good to hear.

orioles03
05-15-2009, 08:36 PM
PAT said: "gave them to friends and family".......

Good to hear.
forgot my high school principal made my senior year a little easier:)

suicide_squeeze
05-15-2009, 10:48 PM
eisenreich8,

After being so righteous and noble, what would you then do if you were to read three months later that Coghlan was a bad teammate, and had been suspended for 50 games as a player who tested positive for a banned substance in MLB?

Would you feel foolish?

Or....would you call him a CANCER and wish all hell to come crashing down on him and his world........like you did Manny Ramirez?


Just curious...

suicide_squeeze
05-15-2009, 10:52 PM
In the heat of the moment, both guys might have perceived things differently. Why jump to conclusions in a "He said, he said".

It all worked out and the player got the ball.

Talking about HRs, how many of these idiots catch the opponents HR and then throw the balls back on to the field just to be scooped up by the team. What a waste!

To me, what a great collectible to get a HR ball!!!!


I couldn't agree with you more, Andrew. It's a rare and hard thing to catch a home run ball. To the one who was lucky enough to catch it, if it means something to someone else.....anybody, the player who hit it, the team, another fan.....then it has value.

I have no problem with the guy who caught it asking for "something" in return. But I would not.......would not......ask for another players bat. That was tasteless and rude......but then so are most of todays baseball players....so who cares.

Coghlan got his ball.....all ended well no matter what the fan asked for.

emann
05-16-2009, 10:57 AM
I easily understand why the Marlins organization became so defensive toward this guy. It was his request for the Hanley bat... It was disrespectful toward Coghlan and immediately set this off on the wrong foot. It was like meeting a semi-famous person and asking them questions about the other more famous people they know. Lame.

He should have just asked for some tickets to a game in the first place and left it at that.

That said, the Marlins probably could have handled this better and you can see from that pic, Coglan is giving off some attitude. At that point, the guy probably should have just taken the ball and split. Now he's got a bat that he doesn't want (personalized at his request no less!) and some bad memories.

eisenreich8
05-16-2009, 11:11 AM
eisenreich8,

After being so righteous and noble, what would you then do if you were to read three months later that Coghlan was a bad teammate, and had been suspended for 50 games as a player who tested positive for a banned substance in MLB?

Would you feel foolish?

Or....would you call him a CANCER and wish all hell to come crashing down on him and his world........like you did Manny Ramirez?


Just curious...

Actually, Suicide_Squeeze, I feel foolish merely answering your juvenile and petty post. Against my better judgment, I will acknowledge you for the final time, ever, I might add, by stating that you should really get a grip.

If what I offered as MY personal and negative opinions against Manny Ramirez can possibly cause you to get a week's worth of tears on your tutu, I have boundless sympathy for you in that thin skin of yours.

My words, my opinions, my steadfast stubbornness to stick by all I said and all I may ever say. Feel free to bushwhack me all you like, I REALLY THINK IT'S COMICAL, how a week after a comment I made you can still not get it out of your head.

MANNY'S NEW TEAM now knows he's a cancer too! Maybe I am your personal cancer, Suicide_Squeeze. Go ahead, get it all out brother cuz you have the floor now. Here's a Kleenex.......

Danny899
05-16-2009, 11:36 AM
Actually, Suicide_Squeeze, I feel foolish merely answering your juvenile and petty post. Against my better judgment, I will acknowledge you for the final time, ever, I might add, by stating that you should really get a grip.

If what I offered as MY personal and negative opinions against Manny Ramirez can possibly cause you to get a week's worth of tears on your tutu, I have boundless sympathy for you in that thin skin of yours.

My words, my opinions, my steadfast stubbornness to stick by all I said and all I may ever say. Feel free to bushwhack me all you like, I REALLY THINK IT'S COMICAL, how a week after a comment I made you can still not get it out of your head.

MANNY'S NEW TEAM now knows he's a cancer too! Maybe I am your personal cancer, Suicide_Squeeze. Go ahead, get it all out brother cuz you have the floor now. Here's a Kleenex.......

Eisenreich8, You should have gone with initial better judgement and not bothered to respond. Your posts, unlike some others here are always interesting and articulate, so why bother responding to chidish baiting? Why get caught up in another round of drama? After awhile, you learn how to navigate past the juvenile name calling posts and focus on the great majority of members here who really have something to offer the hobby.

mvandor
05-16-2009, 12:16 PM
So tired of today's "what's in it for me" morality.

I woulda coughed up the ball for nuthin' - one bat signed and a pic woulda been MORE than enough for me. Fan made the whole thing an ordeal.

both-teams-played-hard
05-16-2009, 12:43 PM
Countless players sell their game used items. They sign them "game-used" and attach a hologram. It is well documented that they sell items as game used on a certain date that were not used on any date. Did you see all the Marlins officials squirm when "asking" the fan for the ball to be returned? Team psychologist? The player wants this ball "cause it's "sentimental". If it's so damn sentimental, then pay the piper. Players look down on fans who want something "game used". Just give him a jersey from the team store...he won't know the difference.
I say give him a minty Rawlings ball in the box. He wants THIS ball 'cause it's the first one of his career? Don't rest on your laurels! Go out and hit more homers. Start crying when you break Hank Aaron's 755.

By the way...the fan looks like a jackball for writing down the inscription that he wants the player to inscribe.
I say, keep the ball, get MLB to document it...give it to Coughlin when he retires or is cut. Give him and the team psychologist something to talk about.

camarokids
05-16-2009, 12:48 PM
I would have said I want a team signed baseball and one of his game used bats signed by the team. If there would have been any attitude from the player I would have said "no thank you", "I will keep the ball".

A lot of these players look down on fans as second class citizens.

ndevlin
05-16-2009, 01:02 PM
So tired of today's "what's in it for me" morality.

I woulda coughed up the ball for nuthin' - one bat signed and a pic woulda been MORE than enough for me. Fan made the whole thing an ordeal.



Exactly!!!

David
05-16-2009, 01:14 PM
A bit off topic. I was at last night's Mariners Red Sox game and was near the guy who caught Ichiro's second home run. An official immediately went over to the guy and give him a team COA for the ball. It was a small card with Mariners logo and the official wrote in the info-- Ichiro, date, etc.

OaklandAsFan
05-16-2009, 01:23 PM
I would give the ball back for a signed bat from the player but I would add in something else IF it could happen for certain situations.


For example I really want a Holliday bat so if I caught a ball from a rook on the A's I would ask if there was any chance of getting a Holliday bat. If not no biggie deal is still good, If he tells me that he will see what Matt says and Matt says go for it awesome. I would never hold a ball for "ransom"

David
05-16-2009, 01:33 PM
My opinion (and this is my opinion not my absolute rule for everyone) is the ball is the fan's and he should either keep it or give it to the player. If he gives it to the player and gets a memento in return that's fine and dandy, but he should not not bargain for big stuff in return. It's like the last piece of birthday cake on your plate. It's fine for you to eat it and it's nice to give it to the person next to you, but its unseemly to haggle over it the damn thing at a crowded table.

suicide_squeeze
05-16-2009, 02:05 PM
Man, I read these posts, and I just laugh at how everyone wants to impose their will on others. Obviously the honorable thing to do would be to give it back to the player because it was his first homer, and there is absolute sentimental value to the ball and event for the player. But, unfortunately for Mr. Coughlin, a fan who has been around the block a few times was the one who caught it. So, as the one who is in search of obtaining the ball, the player needs to suck it up and do as the fan asks. It's that simple.

Everyone obviously has a differnet opinion on how the fan handled it, but you can't blame him for trying to get something that he feels he can get in traded worth for it?

These baseball players think we're all wannabe's, folks. Don't get all soft on them and beat up a fan for handling the situation the way he saw fit? You don't have to agree with the way he handled it (or what he was asking for.....I sure didn't).....but the guy knew what he was doing.

Go to a signing show three or four times in your life. You will soon see that, although there are certainly great guys in the sports world, a lot of them aren't so great. In fact, they are downright selfish and rude, not caring one bit about what you want (ex. asking them to sign a bat on the sweet spot, only to see them turn the dang thing over to spite you and sign the back of the barrel as an example.....I've seen it done!).

Look, when a baseball is hit by a professional baseball player into the seats.....guess what folks? It ISN'T THE PLAYERS PROPERTY, the TEAMS PROPERTY, the ORGANIZATIONS PROPERTY.....it's the lucky FAN'S PROPERTY who caught the ball.

As such, the guy/girl who ends up with the piece of baseball memorabilia is entitled to do whatever they wish to do with it.

Keep that in mind before you stick a sword in the fan asking for something in return. He was a well-seasoned ballhawk.....this player just happened to hit it into the wrong seat....that's all.

Maybe as a "professional", he shouldn't have even gotten involved in the negotiations for the ball. He should have just let the organizations staff handle it. And if it didn't work out? Oh well...that's life. We as fans never get what we want all the time. He would have had to just live with the disappointment like the rest of us do.

suicide_squeeze
05-16-2009, 02:27 PM
A bit off topic. I was at last night's Mariners Red Sox game and was near the guy who caught Ichiro's second home run. An official immediately went over to the guy and give him a team COA for the ball. It was a small card with Mariners logo and the official wrote in the info-- Ichiro, date, etc.

Now that is sweet!

Wouldn't it be great if all ballparks and management handled things that way?

In reality, they are preserving a little piece of "baseball history", which is a very respected move in our hobby.

I understand there are MLB authenticatorsat every game in every ballpark. Why won't they do this for every ball that ends up in the seats? Now, it appears they only do it if it's a MAJOR milestone homerun, or if it ends up in the bullpen or other area where someone in the organization gets ahold of it, who then has access to the MLB authenticator who placed the sticker on the ball. I for one would really like to see MLB step up their authentication of home run balls. They are an unimprovable achievement on an individual basis, representing a moment of "perfection" achieved by the player that also is a direct piece responsible for adding to his career stats. What more could a collector ask for in a game used item?

suicide_squeeze
05-16-2009, 02:41 PM
Actually, Suicide_Squeeze, I feel foolish merely answering your juvenile and petty post. Against my better judgment, I will acknowledge you for the final time, ever, I might add, by stating that you should really get a grip.

If what I offered as MY personal and negative opinions against Manny Ramirez can possibly cause you to get a week's worth of tears on your tutu, I have boundless sympathy for you in that thin skin of yours.

My words, my opinions, my steadfast stubbornness to stick by all I said and all I may ever say. Feel free to bushwhack me all you like, I REALLY THINK IT'S COMICAL, how a week after a comment I made you can still not get it out of your head.

MANNY'S NEW TEAM now knows he's a cancer too! Maybe I am your personal cancer, Suicide_Squeeze. Go ahead, get it all out brother cuz you have the floor now. Here's a Kleenex.......

Actually, eisenreich8, I couldn't care less about Manny Ramirez anymore.

I was simply asking you a question about how'd you feel if this player turned out to be like him? But then you went off in a rant, completely avoiding my question (for obvious personal dramatic reasons).

By the way, it was not a baiting question. But it did serve my purpose well, as your response so obviously indicated.

I was pointing out how insincere you come off at times, at times taking the high road on subjects like a father of the cloth, while at other times putting on the baggy pants gang-garb and lowering yourself to the depths of a scum-filled gutter when you hate a subject or player. It just comes off as disingenuious......just thought you should realize that. You are at both ends of the extreme, is there never a middle ground? Maybe just think about it?

Take care, no offense intended towards you or your opinions....really.

suicide_squeeze
05-16-2009, 03:03 PM
Eisenreich8, You should have gone with initial better judgement and not bothered to respond. Your posts, unlike some others here are always interesting and articulate, so why bother responding to chidish baiting? Why get caught up in another round of drama? After awhile, you learn how to navigate past the juvenile name calling posts and focus on the great majority of members here who really have something to offer the hobby.

Danny899,

I was just curious....What interesting and articulate comments, of course aside from the juvenile name calling you incorrectly refer to, caused you to feel possessed enough to want to post here? Did you just want to add your little "something" of relevance or insight that you have to, you know, ..... "offer the hobby"?

Because if so, wow, I must be void between the ears. I just can't find anything relevant in what you posted, partner?


Or......maybe.......was it sour grapes over this?....

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=24378&page=5

eisenreich8
05-16-2009, 03:09 PM
Eisenreich8, You should have gone with initial better judgement and not bothered to respond. Your posts, unlike some others here are always interesting and articulate, so why bother responding to chidish baiting? Why get caught up in another round of drama? After awhile, you learn how to navigate past the juvenile name calling posts and focus on the great majority of members here who really have something to offer the hobby.


You're right Danny, I was caught in a weak moment. Thank you for your complimentary words. I hope I remain in the good graces of the fellow members I hold in such high esteem and have charitable opinions of me, such as you have indicated.

I am on a new journey now. Thanks Danny.

eisenreich8
05-16-2009, 03:14 PM
My opinion (and this is my opinion not my absolute rule for everyone) is the ball is the fan's and he should either keep it or give it to the player. If he gives it to the player and gets a memento in return that's fine and dandy, but he should not not bargain for big stuff in return. It's like the last piece of birthday cake on your plate. It's fine for you to eat it and it's nice to give it to the person next to you, but its unseemly to haggle over it the damn thing at a crowded table.


BULLSEYE David!

BergerKing22784
05-16-2009, 03:22 PM
I would think as a teamate to this guy if I knew it was his first homerun and dude wanted a bat from me I'd do it... At the very least I'm making $250,000 a year (that is if I suck, and chances are if he wanted MY bat I must be a big deal such as Hanley is.) I would love to help out my teamate.... Guy asked for a bat that probably cost the team or player less than $100 bucks, Im not sure what bats cost for the player or team but I know its nothing thats going to break the bank of the team or the player who uses the bat....

If I was a well established player hitting a HR that is breaking a major record I'm sure I've got money that I could drop a million on a ball if I had to!

xpress34
05-16-2009, 04:19 PM
I understand there are MLB authenticatorsat every game in every ballpark. Why won't they do this for every ball that ends up in the seats? Now, it appears they only do it if it's a MAJOR milestone homerun, or if it ends up in the bullpen or other area where someone in the organization gets ahold of it, who then has access to the MLB authenticator who placed the sticker on the ball. I for one would really like to see MLB step up their authentication of home run balls. They are an unimprovable achievement on an individual basis, representing a moment of "perfection" achieved by the player that also is a direct piece responsible for adding to his career stats. What more could a collector ask for in a game used item?

Suicide -

Here is the 'flip' side to your statement... while I agree that having MLB Authenticators on site to Certify each ball, it's not always an exact science... When a fan catches a ball, unless someone near him can verify that he did NOT switch it with a BP ball (not all BP balls are marked Practice - many are GU from the day before that got tossed out), then it is based on giving the fan who caught it the benefit of the doubt.

The other issue is balls hit into BullPen or Center Field areas, etc - depending on the ballpark. If no one is warming up in the BullPen, it's a 'best guess' as to which ball is THE ball when they recover it as other GU or Game Prepped balls may very well be laying around the BullPen.

As far as Center Field - and this is based on what ACTUALLY happened at Coors Field the other day - it is againa BEST GUESS as they do not 'clean out' the Center Field area after BP.

Chris Iannetta hit a Grand Slam into the Center Field 'forrest' at Coors Field and an usher I know was the one sent to recover it - he was even on TV for a few minutes looking for it. When I asked him the next day, HIS comments were - "I found 'a' ball after 5 minutes of digging around, but MLB Authenticated it as 'the' ball. After the game they pulled about 5 more balls out of the area."

So again, it's a BEST GUESS effort in most cases for the Authenticators - but I do like that they are there to at least try to get the right item each time...

As far as the Ichiro Ball, that's a cool story - too bad the Rox don't do that... at the Thursday afternoon game at Coors Field, Ivan Rodriguez lost his bat into the crowd on a swinging third strike and the ushers checked to make sure the fan was okay, but I never saw anyone else go to his seat. How about having that Authenticated ON THE SPOT?

Just my .02

All the best -

Chris

markize
05-16-2009, 04:27 PM
I would think as a teamate to this guy if I knew it was his first homerun and dude wanted a bat from me I'd do it... At the very least I'm making $250,000 a year (that is if I suck, and chances are if he wanted MY bat I must be a big deal such as Hanley is.) I would love to help out my teamate.... Guy asked for a bat that probably cost the team or player less than $100 bucks, Im not sure what bats cost for the player or team but I know its nothing thats going to break the bank of the team or the player who uses the bat....

If I was a well established player hitting a HR that is breaking a major record I'm sure I've got money that I could drop a million on a ball if I had to!


i was just going to say the same thing. Ramirez made $1,168,000 between 2006-2008. im not sure what kind of bat he uses, or the secondary market value, but lets assume this: BMH posted somewhere that Jeter pays $65 for each bat he orderes. If the same is true for Ramirez, and he can sell it for $300 on the secondary market, he is losing $235. If he is a good guy, and a good teammate, he takes the hit for another players first dinger. I would think Ramirez would like to have his forst home run ball as well, and the excitement for a guy on his club, why not?

Maybe it was out of line for the ballhawk to ask for the bat, but why not? hell, he can ask Ramirez to knock up his girlfriend if he wants :eek: . Then there is the comment of Coughlin, "so are you gonna give me MY ball or what"? At no point in time was the ball ever his. the chain of ownership is as follows: 1. Rawlings 2. MLB 3. ballhawk. so the player was asking for something he had no rights to (the HR ball), just as the ballhawk was asking for something he had no rights to (Ramirez bat).

just my take on this mess.

Mark

markize
05-16-2009, 04:32 PM
i was just going to say the same thing. Ramirez made $1,168,000 between 2006-2008. im not sure what kind of bat he uses, or the secondary market value, but lets assume this: BMH posted somewhere that Jeter pays $65 for each bat he orderes. If the same is true for Ramirez, and he can sell it for $300 on the secondary market, he is losing $235. If he is a good guy, and a good teammate, he takes the hit for another players first dinger. I would think Ramirez would like to have his forst home run ball as well, and the excitement for a guy on his club, why not?

Maybe it was out of line for the ballhawk to ask for the bat, but why not? hell, he can ask Ramirez to knock up his girlfriend if he wants :eek: . Then there is the comment of Coughlin, "so are you gonna give me MY ball or what"? At no point in time was the ball ever his. the chain of ownership is as follows: 1. Rawlings 2. MLB 3. ballhawk. so the player was asking for something he had no rights to (the HR ball), just as the ballhawk was asking for something he had no rights to (Ramirez bat).

just my take on this mess.

Mark


...sorry about the typos. my typing fingers (thats my 2 index fingers) get ahead of me. it should have been.... $65 for each bat he orders. in addition, its ....like to have his first home run, not frost home run ball.

mark

suicide_squeeze
05-16-2009, 05:57 PM
i was just going to say the same thing. Ramirez made $1,168,000 between 2006-2008. im not sure what kind of bat he uses, or the secondary market value, but lets assume this: BMH posted somewhere that Jeter pays $65 for each bat he orderes. If the same is true for Ramirez, and he can sell it for $300 on the secondary market, he is losing $235. If he is a good guy, and a good teammate, he takes the hit for another players first dinger. I would think Ramirez would like to have his forst home run ball as well, and the excitement for a guy on his club, why not?

Maybe it was out of line for the ballhawk to ask for the bat, but why not? hell, he can ask Ramirez to knock up his girlfriend if he wants :eek: . Then there is the comment of Coughlin, "so are you gonna give me MY ball or what"? At no point in time was the ball ever his. the chain of ownership is as follows: 1. Rawlings 2. MLB 3. ballhawk. so the player was asking for something he had no rights to (the HR ball), just as the ballhawk was asking for something he had no rights to (Ramirez bat).

just my take on this mess.

Mark

That's a pretty darn good take, Mark.

And after all, let's face it, the players don't order their bats with the intentions of "reselling" for a profit. They order them to hit baseballs all over hell and creation during their careers. They must know, going in, that these bats are going to end up in a LOT of different hands by the time their careers are over. So what's one or two, here and there, to serve a teammate a great purpose? Isn't that what a good fellow teammate is about?

Like I said before, the ballhawk who got that homerun had been around the block for quite awhile.....he knows the game. The rookie that hit the homerun......well, that's another story. Just a typical jock all messed up with misunderstandings about "entitlement".....like most of them. He should be seriously happy he got his ball......but even more proud (and understanding of how lucky he is) to be in the big leagues, and should act accordingly.

suicide_squeeze
05-16-2009, 06:21 PM
Suicide -

Here is the 'flip' side to your statement... while I agree that having MLB Authenticators on site to Certify each ball, it's not always an exact science... When a fan catches a ball, unless someone near him can verify that he did NOT switch it with a BP ball (not all BP balls are marked Practice - many are GU from the day before that got tossed out), then it is based on giving the fan who caught it the benefit of the doubt.

The other issue is balls hit into BullPen or Center Field areas, etc - depending on the ballpark. If no one is warming up in the BullPen, it's a 'best guess' as to which ball is THE ball when they recover it as other GU or Game Prepped balls may very well be laying around the BullPen.

As far as Center Field - and this is based on what ACTUALLY happened at Coors Field the other day - it is againa BEST GUESS as they do not 'clean out' the Center Field area after BP.

Chris Iannetta hit a Grand Slam into the Center Field 'forrest' at Coors Field and an usher I know was the one sent to recover it - he was even on TV for a few minutes looking for it. When I asked him the next day, HIS comments were - "I found 'a' ball after 5 minutes of digging around, but MLB Authenticated it as 'the' ball. After the game they pulled about 5 more balls out of the area."

So again, it's a BEST GUESS effort in most cases for the Authenticators - but I do like that they are there to at least try to get the right item each time...

As far as the Ichiro Ball, that's a cool story - too bad the Rox don't do that... at the Thursday afternoon game at Coors Field, Ivan Rodriguez lost his bat into the crowd on a swinging third strike and the ushers checked to make sure the fan was okay, but I never saw anyone else go to his seat. How about having that Authenticated ON THE SPOT?

Just my .02

All the best -

Chris

Chris,

Understood. But I've had this discussion before. Let me ask you this...

A guy in the outfield catches a homerun of, say, Albert Pujols. He knows he has the right ball, but he has another ball in his pocket that was launched into his section before the game begins and he ends up running it down. One home run ball, and one batting practice home run ball by a nobody player.

Here comes Mr. "Authenticator" from the bowels of the park, who can identify the fan who just caught Pujols home run ball because everyone saw in on instant replay three times on National TV. He is approaching the fan to ask him to present the ball so they can place the MLB Authentication sticker on it.

The guy who has the real Pujols home run ball and the batting practice ball gets a brainstorm idea: Give the guy the fake ball, and keep the Pujols homer for myself! Yeah....that's the ticket! Then I can sell the fake one for a heafty profit, and I'll have the real one!

Let me explain why there is nothing to gain with this argument, and it just doesn't make sense.

First off, no matter which ball he presents to the MLB Authenticator, if it ISN'T the correct ball, it will be identified and globally accepted to be the real ball from the moment the sticker is placed on it. EVEN if he keeps the real home run ball hit by Pujols, he would never be able to explain how he ended up with the correct one, being he had it (supposedly) to hand to the authenticator. In this ficticious example, his little plan would backfire in theory, and just doen't make any sense. Because if he tried to tell everyone what he did, who would believe he would be that stupid?

Furthermore, game-used baseballs are rubbed up with "Mississippi Mudd" before each game, and have a different appearance than batting practice baseballs. Yes some eventually get into the teams bags for B.P., and some eventually get into the hands of a fan, but by then are much more beat-up, scuffed up, have net marks on them, etc. Personally speaking, with a ton of experience in identifying and handling game-used baseballs, there is a significant difference in appearance that can be seen rather quickly. There is no way a major league pitcher is going to have a batting-practice type ball, scuffed and well used, with the labels all worn and badly beat up, and with unidentifyable markings on the ball not made while used during a regular ML baseball game.

In the other cases you mention Chris, if a home run ball goes into a part of the park where the "housekeeping" has been neglected in regards to retrieving BP baseballs, and it can't be positively determined which ball is which.....well, then I guess a piece of history is lost to the ages? You can't get em all, but one that goes directly into the hands of a fan, which is seen on National TV.....why not?

David
05-16-2009, 07:07 PM
The mentioned Ichiro home run ball had the added bonus of being photographed by an AP photographer and appeared on ESPN.com and Yahoo news. In fact I'm pictured in photo in the background.

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/aa8cfcea-604c-4286-9079-5a078c0b1470.jpg

Sincityson
05-17-2009, 12:37 AM
I thought the initial offer was kind enough. It's possibly likely that he wanted the Hanley Ramirez bat, to re-sell it.. Since Ramirez will go through several bats, you' d think a request of this nature would be workable. Either way, still seems a bit demanding.

joelsabi
05-17-2009, 01:08 AM
Now that is sweet!

Wouldn't it be great if all ballparks and management handled things that way?

In reality, they are preserving a little piece of "baseball history", which is a very respected move in our hobby.

I understand there are MLB authenticatorsat every game in every ballpark. Why won't they do this for every ball that ends up in the seats? Now, it appears they only do it if it's a MAJOR milestone homerun, or if it ends up in the bullpen or other area where someone in the organization gets ahold of it, who then has access to the MLB authenticator who placed the sticker on the ball. I for one would really like to see MLB step up their authentication of home run balls. They are an unimprovable achievement on an individual basis, representing a moment of "perfection" achieved by the player that also is a direct piece responsible for adding to his career stats. What more could a collector ask for in a game used item?

nice thoughts.

it would be great if every MLB authenticator was proactive in authenticating every homerun. people who caught the ball would be excited. hobbyist would be willing to pay more for such documented ball i assume. i think it would be a great for baseball to have this done.

emann
05-17-2009, 11:43 AM
I would think as a teamate to this guy if I knew it was his first homerun and dude wanted a bat from me I'd do it... At the very least I'm making $250,000 a year (that is if I suck, and chances are if he wanted MY bat I must be a big deal such as Hanley is.) I would love to help out my teamate.... Guy asked for a bat that probably cost the team or player less than $100 bucks, Im not sure what bats cost for the player or team but I know its nothing thats going to break the bank of the team or the player who uses the bat....

If I was a well established player hitting a HR that is breaking a major record I'm sure I've got money that I could drop a million on a ball if I had to!

Yeah, but I don't think the Marlins management would even go ask Hanley since they probably saw it as a slap in the face to Coghlan. What would his response been if they said, "Why isn't a bat from Coghlan as good as Hanley's?"... Would he reply, "'cause Coghlan sucks."? It might be true but you just can't give off that sort of reply OR the vibe that the reason is that (which is what this guy did by asking for the bat of an obviously better player).

I think you need to have some measure of value when negotiating this sort of thing out. Since, he started it off on the wrong foot, he might has well have asked to knock up his girlfriend (as that other poster commented), this approach got him nowhere.

He should have just left with the ball, sold it on ebay (probably to Coghlan's parents) and bought a Hanley bat for $200.

AWA85
05-17-2009, 12:08 PM
He should have just left with the ball, sold it on ebay (probably to Coghlan's parents) and bought a Hanley bat for $200.


He is trying to avoid the ebay and paypal fees so he didn't want to take that route :D

suicide_squeeze
05-17-2009, 12:29 PM
The mentioned Ichiro home run ball had the added bonus of being photographed by an AP photographer and appeared on ESPN.com and Yahoo news. In fact I'm pictured in photo in the background.

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/aa8cfcea-604c-4286-9079-5a078c0b1470.jpg

David.....which guy is you??

And DAVID!!!.....You mean you passed up a PERFECT opportunity to throw your beer all over J.D. Drew??? What were you thinking?????:p

suicide_squeeze
05-17-2009, 12:32 PM
He is trying to avoid the ebay and paypal fees so he didn't want to take that route :D

WAYYYY too funny!:D :D :D

David
05-17-2009, 02:28 PM
The right arrow points to my head, partially obscured by the guy in the white shirt I'm not short, I'm sitting). You can even see my orange University of Texas baseball cap that was sitting on my knee. The other arrow points to my friend was was standing with program in one hand, pen in the other.

What's interesting is I don't collect game used baseballs, but I do collect news photos. As this AP photo was shot and distributed digitally, I have a genuine copy on my hard drive.

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v3916/32/108/1099718246/n1099718246_30146632_3379658.jpg

suicide_squeeze
05-17-2009, 02:42 PM
The right arrow points to my head, partially obscured by the guy in the white shirt I'm not short, I'm sitting). You can even see my orange University of Texas baseball cap that was sitting on my knee. The other arrow points to my friend was was standing with program in one hand, pen in the other.

What's interesting is I don't collect game used baseballs, but I do collect news photos. As this AP photo was shot and distributed digitally, I have a genuine copy on my hard drive.

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v3916/32/108/1099718246/n1099718246_30146632_3379658.jpg

Pretty cool David...

You gave me an idea for another thread.

But DAVID......what about the beer question??? J.D. was looking awefully thirsty after chasing down that ball out of his reach....couldn't you have helped him out with a rain of golden beverage?:D

(Did I mention I've hated J.D. ever since he bailed on the Dodgers?):o

sportscentury
05-17-2009, 03:48 PM
(Did I mention I've hated J.D. ever since he bailed on the Dodgers?):o

He is still despised in Philly.

.

David
05-17-2009, 03:49 PM
I was trying to politely skirt the issue. I hate to break it to, but I neither drink nor hate J.D. Drew.

xpress34
05-18-2009, 09:13 AM
Let me explain why there is nothing to gain with this argument, and it just doesn't make sense.

First off, no matter which ball he presents to the MLB Authenticator, if it ISN'T the correct ball, it will be identified and globally accepted to be the real ball from the moment the sticker is placed on it. EVEN if he keeps the real home run ball hit by Pujols, he would never be able to explain how he ended up with the correct one, being he had it (supposedly) to hand to the authenticator. In this ficticious example, his little plan would backfire in theory, and just doen't make any sense. Because if he tried to tell everyone what he did, who would believe he would be that stupid?

Furthermore, game-used baseballs are rubbed up with "Mississippi Mudd" before each game, and have a different appearance than batting practice baseballs. Yes some eventually get into the teams bags for B.P., and some eventually get into the hands of a fan, but by then are much more beat-up, scuffed up, have net marks on them, etc. Personally speaking, with a ton of experience in identifying and handling game-used baseballs, there is a significant difference in appearance that can be seen rather quickly. There is no way a major league pitcher is going to have a batting-practice type ball, scuffed and well used, with the labels all worn and badly beat up, and with unidentifyable markings on the ball not made while used during a regular ML baseball game.

In the other cases you mention Chris, if a home run ball goes into a part of the park where the "housekeeping" has been neglected in regards to retrieving BP baseballs, and it can't be positively determined which ball is which.....well, then I guess a piece of history is lost to the ages? You can't get em all, but one that goes directly into the hands of a fan, which is seen on National TV.....why not?

SS -

1st of all, my point wasn't about someone trying to sell the Genuine article later - just that they may want to keep the real deal and give up another ball they had for their own collection.

2nd - really, they 'mud' up the balls using 'Mississippi Mud'? I'll guess that you meant to say they Rub them up using Lena 'Slats' Blackburne's Rubbing Mud (which comes from an undisclosed Tributary of the Delaware River - NOT the Mississippi).

3rd - they are not always beat up and scuffed up... I've seen plenty of BP balls that looked like they were just prepped for the game that day - it is possible that here in Denver due to the Humidor, that once the balls are removed and prepped (rubbed up) that they do not put them back if not used in the game - MLB has 10-12 DOZEN Balls rubbed up before eavery MLB Game. Sometimes they ahve to rub up more - a game with lots of HRs or Foul Balls - and sometimes they don't come close to using them all - a game with lots of quick 1 pitch pop ups and such... the average lifespan of a Major League Ball is about 7 pitches

As far as being seen going into the fans hands on TV, as soon as they pan away, it's anybody's guess what happens with the ball unless the Authenticator is there before they take the Camera off of them.

My point being - particularly with the GS ball hit into center field forest at Coors Field (and as you stated above - "no matter which ball he presents to the MLB Authenticator, if it ISN'T the correct ball, it will be identified and globally accepted to be the real ball from the moment the sticker is placed on it") is that in some instances, there may always be that doubt as to whether it truly is the 'real deal' regardless of what the MLB Hologram states.

As I stated, I know the worker who retrieved the 'GS' ball and his statement when I asked him jokingly if he got the right ball was a smirk, shrugged his shoulders and said, 'I retrieved 'a' ball... once I handed it to MLB, they tagged it and called it OFFICIALLY became 'the' ball.' And I'll guarantee you that MLB didn't waste anytime looking to see if it looked more like a GU ball or a BP ball. Once it was tagged, it was a piece of history as far as they are concerned.

And for the record, you're self serving comment above - "Personally speaking, with a ton of experience in identifying and handling game-used baseballs, there is a significant difference in appearance that can be seen rather quickly." - doesn't mean you are the only person who knows anything about theose differences... I worked for Rawlings for 4 yeras down at Coors Field - trust me, I know my baseballs very well.

- Chris

sportscentury
05-18-2009, 09:22 AM
As I stated, I know the worker who retrieved the 'GS' ball and his statement when I asked him jokingly if he got the right ball was a smirk, shrugged his shoulders and said, 'I retrieved 'a' ball... once I handed it to MLB, they tagged it and called it OFFICIALLY became 'the' ball.' And I'll guarantee you that MLB didn't waste anytime looking to see if it looked more like a GU ball or a BP ball. Once it was tagged, it was a piece of history as far as they are concerned.

Wow.

.

tigerdale
05-18-2009, 10:44 AM
I'd like to share my opinion on this subject....maybe its not the original intent of the post, but it is interesting to me & probably everyone who buys mlb authentic items. I have collected quite a few 'MLB authentic' home run baseballs. I think they're a great collectable, something that can't be cheapened (meaning, a player only hits so many, unlike switching bats every at bat or changing jerseys..etc...). Out of my collection, some look very rubbed up & used.....all the way to the other extreme of little or no rub & even difficult to find a ball mark. I have been told that authenticaters will not authenticate HR balls, say that were thrown back (visitors home runs) because they don't know if it was the real ball, also fan caught HR's can't be. As for the rubbing, I have also been told, depending on whose pitching, that could vary by home teams pitcher preference....some actually like very little rubbing if at all. Having said all this, people are just workers & mistakes can be made I'm sure. I had started a post a few weeks back in which I bought 2 game used balls authenticated from a tiger game & they were both minor league balls (from different minor leagues at that!!)...were they really used in a MLB game...didn't the ump notice?? Or were they just pulled from a BP buckett?? very odd to me....I know I probably don't speak (or write) very clear, but it is a subject I have put a lot of thought into to.

mattmueller
07-08-2009, 10:10 AM
The Happy Youngster and this "incident" gets some run on the front page of the Wall Street Journal this morning. Link below, but you may need to be a subscriber to access it:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124700099868207685.html#mod=todays_us_page_one

LastingsMilledge85
07-08-2009, 12:38 PM
I think a lot can be said about a grown man that runs around ballparks changing shirts and hats to accomodate the playing teams, bugging the heck out of players for balls, and goes by the names of "ballhawk" and "happy youngster".

bigtruck260
07-08-2009, 12:56 PM
SHHHHH. There are alot of them that read this board.:D

Actaully, I think it's a pretty cool hobby to be a ballhawk. You need to have time, dedication and be fearless. Most of them are pretty nice guys, but every now and then you run into one from out of town in the bleachers...wearing a CUBS uniform.:mad:

LastingsMilledge85
07-08-2009, 01:27 PM
I don't have a problem if someone wants a ball. Every game I go to I would like to get a ball, but rarely happens. I'm not going to harrass players constantly or swipe a ball intended for someone else. If you get a ball just be happy you got one, and be done with it. But I'm not going to play ball cop it really isn't that big of a deal. The bottom line is that the "ballhawk" or "happy youngster" really is an immature adult.

sox83cubs84
07-08-2009, 02:33 PM
I think a lot can be said about a grown man that runs around ballparks changing shirts and hats to accomodate the playing teams, bugging the heck out of players for balls, and goes by the names of "ballhawk" and "happy youngster".

This probably feeds into your image of "ballhawks", Lastings, but, while it may not be this way in some cities, at Wrigley Field, many of the ballhawks take the name seriously...maybe too seriously. It's no big deal to me who calls themselves a ballhawk, but a few years ago, the Sun-Times did a brief interview with a Wrigley regular who referred to himself as a "ballhawk" in the interview. The next day, not all, but several of the guys on the street were standing around, seething, because this guy, notorious for asking players for baseballs, had the temerity to refer to himself as a "ballhawk" The Wrigley crowd frowns on begging (asking players for baseballs) and celebrates catching them (to them, earning them). It's become a macho thing with much of the Waveland Avenue crowd...some of these guys need to spend more time hanging out and having fun, and less time grousing over what constitutes a "ballhawk".

Dave M.
Chicago area

LastingsMilledge85
07-08-2009, 03:15 PM
That's basically what I was getting at in a nut shell. If you call yourself a "ball hawk", really listen to yourself. It sounds sad and pathetic sorry. Like I said I don't have a problem with someone getting a ball, but when you make it a goal to load up with them per game, it's really sad and pathetic.

frikativ54
07-08-2009, 09:58 PM
These baseball players think we're all wannabe's, folks. Don't get all soft on them and beat up a fan for handling the situation the way he saw fit? You don't have to agree with the way he handled it (or what he was asking for.....I sure didn't).....but the guy knew what he was doing.

Go to a signing show three or four times in your life. You will soon see that, although there are certainly great guys in the sports world, a lot of them aren't so great. In fact, they are downright selfish and rude, not caring one bit about what you want (ex. asking them to sign a bat on the sweet spot, only to see them turn the dang thing over to spite you and sign the back of the barrel as an example.....I've seen it done!).

You make great points about the selfishness of athletes, especially at shows. In my short life, I have met lots of people. And the rudest of all of them are the athletes, who really take the celebrity to their heads. I'm not talking about all of them, but I find a higher percentage of rude athletes than I do in any other field.

I will never forget my experience with Hunter Pence, when I merely asked for a photo with him, which the show promoter had told me in advance that I was entitled to. He glared at me when I told him I was a big fan,and wouldn't say a word to me.

As soon as I asked for the photo with Pence, he threw up his hands, called for security, and got the wannabe cop to bark at me that I was delaying the flow of the line. Quite an arrogant thing for the then-rookie to do, considering how little he's done compared to a lot of players.

The bottom line is that athletes are not entitled to any ball; they wouldn't get a salary if it weren't for the fans paying for tickets, beer, etc. Yes, it would have been nice for the guy to give the ball back to the Marlin, but it was the fan's property, plain and simple. Athletes aren't owed anything.

LastingsMilledge85
07-09-2009, 12:40 AM
And some of the big name players are the most understanding of all. Last year I got to see the whole Mets team because ironically was staying at the same hotel as them. I sat in the lobby, and got a few autographs from players, and the ones that were asked didn't hesitate to sign (Reyes, Pelfrey, Wagner, and Church). All were friendly in the process as well. But I can believe that there are players that have egos. But in their defense, they probably encounter these situations countless times, and get tired of it. I'm not saying it's right of them, but I guess they have their reasons.

ndevlin
07-09-2009, 01:13 AM
About 5 years ago, I saw Warren Sapp sitting at the airport lobby right before take off. He was sitting right across from me with no one around. He had just gotten off the phone and I got the guts to go up and ask if I could get a photo with him. He never even looked at me once and said, "I dont do pictures" with a nasty attitude. I stood there for a second because I didnt know what to do next and he continued to sit there looking away from me. So I just walked off. Ever since then I always thought he was the biggest d-bag ever.

I found it odd though when I sat back down, a non-white person that worked at the airport(custodian or something) came up to him and they shook hands and talked for a while. So who knows, maybe doesnt like white folks:)

suicide_squeeze
07-09-2009, 12:24 PM
You make great points about the selfishness of athletes, especially at shows. In my short life, I have met lots of people. And the rudest of all of them are the athletes, who really take the celebrity to their heads. I'm not talking about all of them, but I find a higher percentage of rude athletes than I do in any other field.

I will never forget my experience with Hunter Pence, when I merely asked for a photo with him, which the show promoter had told me in advance that I was entitled to. He glared at me when I told him I was a big fan,and wouldn't say a word to me.

As soon as I asked for the photo with Pence, he threw up his hands, called for security, and got the wannabe cop to bark at me that I was delaying the flow of the line. Quite an arrogant thing for the then-rookie to do, considering how little he's done compared to a lot of players.

The bottom line is that athletes are not entitled to any ball; they wouldn't get a salary if it weren't for the fans paying for tickets, beer, etc. Yes, it would have been nice for the guy to give the ball back to the Marlin, but it was the fan's property, plain and simple. Athletes aren't owed anything.

Hey Les!!!

Haven't seen any cracks from you in quite awhilehttp://www.websmileys.com/sm/obscene/eck27.gif......thought we lost you. Nice to see you back.

Regards,

Steve