EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

[emann]

So, I guess I can be added into the thread of lost/stolen bats from USPS (I'll post this there later, just for record). Bu, I have another question: who should end up losing the money and the item over this?

The bat was sent USPS and arrived to me today in an empty shipping tube hand-delivered by the mailman who explained the stamps all over that read something like "contents missing upon receipt at Post Office". The tape on the end of the tube looks like it was razored. Not a huge dollar bat (thank God!) but an older player bat I really wanted at a great price.

This bat was bought on ebay using Paypal and I'm pretty sure that Paypal would charge this back to the seller. After all, I got nothing but an empty tube at the post office (who stamped it before it got to me, so obviously I didn't take the bat out)...

But, I don't think the seller scammed me and sent an empty tube and so I feel bad having him end up eating the money and loss of the bat. I've thought about offering to split the money loss with him (it's only about $40)...

Any other recourse with the PO? Should I file a mail theft report with them (or should he) or is it not worth it?

Any thoughts are appreciated!

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

You sound like a real nice guy.

And you know what they say about nice guys?

Do NOT offer to split anything....unless it's an ice cream sundae with your girlfriend.

The world is full of scum, and unfortunately you just got tsagged by one.

Report the issue to the seller.

Report it to paypal, and ask them to resolve it. They will most definately ask you you to ship the tube complete with notes from the US Postal Service intact.....TAKE PICTURES! Document it, and warp the tube in another larger package.

If that's too much hastle (which it usually always is) for the value of the bat, ask Paypal if you can take digital pictures to get the ball rolling, and ask them to send for the bat with a pick-up ticket, as you don't want to incur any additional cost for this debacle.

I don't know if that will work.....You will probably be required to mail them the tube if you waqnt to be reimbursed. But, once you do what they require, your account will be reimbursed.

Let the seller deal with whatever issues he gets from this at his end. As a prior seller (until I had it up to HERE with issues like these) ebay and paypal will make this poor soul'd life a mess for awhile, but maybe he should have insured it, or sent it a different way (delivery confirmation, etc.). If he had, there may have been a better way to pinpoint when the tube was violated.

Bottom line, you just might be getting scammed by the seller too. You never know. Stand your ground.

And good luck.

[jobathenut]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

suicide- you just killed me with laughter with your "do not offer to split anything....unless it's an ice cream sundae with your girlfreind" comment.....man,bravo!!!!i really needed that laugh today-thanks...that's funny

You sound like a real nice guy.

And you know what they say about nice guys?

Do NOT offer to split anything....unless it's an ice cream sundae with your girlfriend.

The world is full of scum, and unfortunately you just got tsagged by one.

Report the issue to the seller.

Report it to paypal, and ask them to resolve it. They will most definately ask you you to ship the tube complete with notes from the US Postal Service intact.....TAKE PICTURES! Document it, and warp the tube in another larger package.

If that's too much hastle (which it usually always is) for the value of the bat, ask Paypal if you can take digital pictures to get the ball rolling, and ask them to send for the bat with a pick-up ticket, as you don't want to incur any additional cost for this debacle.

I don't know if that will work.....You will probably be required to mail them the tube if you waqnt to be reimbursed. But, once you do what they require, your account will be reimbursed.

Let the seller deal with whatever issues he gets from this at his end. As a prior seller (until I had it up to HERE with issues like these) ebay and paypal will make this poor soul'd life a mess for awhile, but maybe he should have insured it, or sent it a different way (delivery confirmation, etc.). If he had, there may have been a better way to pinpoint when the tube was violated.

Bottom line, you just might be getting scammed by the seller too. You never know. Stand your ground.

And good luck.

[emann]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

You sound like a real nice guy.

And you know what they say about nice guys?

SS-

Nice guy? Yes, yes I am. Thanks for the great point and the wake-up call though... Very much appreciated.

I filed a Paypal claim. Feel bad about the whole situation, but not much I can do. I'll use the money saved to buy that ice cream sunday to split w/ the wife.

[corsairs22]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

If you did submit a report of theft to the Post Office, I would be curious to see how they handled it. Your story also reminds me to make sure I put enough insurance on the next bat that I ship. A question: was there anything about the package that would indicate to the thief what was inside it? People use those long boxes to ship all sorts of stuff: posters, maps, umbrellas, golf clubs, etc.

[emann]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

People use those long boxes to ship all sorts of stuff: posters, maps, umbrellas, golf clubs, etc.

It was a shipping tube (round kind to ship blueprints)... I think you can sort of tell it's a baseball bat if you've handled them before, it kind of wobbles w/ the weight of the barrel vs. handle. Nothing else that would have identified it as a bat...

[Cobbycobb]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

I think that paypal will side with the shipper on this one. Once they prove it was delivered to you I think that settles it. I think you are going to have to deal with the shipping company on this one.

[David]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

If the bat was really lost by the shipping company, the loss is neither the seller's nor the buyer's fault.

[MarinersFan34]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

Seems simple to me.. Seller refunds your money for the missing bat. The seller then files his insurance claim with the post office to reclaim that money he had to refund. Thus in the end, the person who takes the "hit" is the one responsible for the lost item.

[David]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

If I was assigned as arbiter and had to choose between one or the other, I'd say the seller would have to pay for the lost bat. This is in part as the seller is the one who packaged and shipped, while the buyer has no physical control over that. As noted in the above post, if the seller insured he'd get his money back as well and neither would be out. Duly note that I have both sold and bought a lot, and, as a seller, reimbursed for a package the USPO mishandled (came back months later with USPO note saying it had gotten stuck in one of their sorting machines). So I'm not an eternal buyer with an eternal buyer's bias.

[David]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

It should also be noted that, when purchasing online or mail order, having the item delivered to the purchaser is assumed to be part of the purchase. There may be charges and written rules and conditions about delivery, but delivery to the person is part of the deal. If the sale says 'pick up only,' that would be different. It's like home delivery pizza. The buyer is paying to have the pizza delivered to his house. It doesn't matter why the pizza doesn't make it (ran out of gas, worker quit, alien abduction), if the pizza is not delivered to the house they buyer's not going to pay.

So, barring stated condition otherwise, I believe it is reasonable for the buyer to expect the item to be delivered to his address as part of his purchase. Of course the seller can (and usually does) charge for this delivery and can also charge for the needed insurance.

[David]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

One last thing. Barring relevant conditions otherwise (pick up only, buyer and seller agreement about lost mail), I believe a small claims court would side with the buyer, and might specifically note that a seller should have get for such an occurance As only the seller can get the insurance on the package (the buyer can't go the USPO and get insurance on an item he doesn't have), the seller has more responsibility for insurance and problems due to lost in the mail item.

[David]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

One last last thing. In case of genuine lost in delivery item, I believe the small claims court judge would say, the buyer paid to have the item delivered and it wasn't so he gets his money back from the seller. The judge would further say, the seller paid to have the item delivered to the buyer, so the seller gets his money back from the delivery service for faulty service. Whether or not the seller has proper documentation concerning the delivery (insurance, etc) is the seller's concern when trying to get his money back from the delivery service, and isn't relevant to the buyer being reimbursed for not getting what he paid for. Again, this is assuming there weren't different relevant delivery/lost-in-mail conditions and agreements that existed as part of the sale

[David]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

One really last point. In court, the buyer is going to have to offer some evidence that the item was never delivered. It's fine to refuse for insurance and delivery confirmation, but don't automatically assume that a judge will simply take your word that the item never arrived. Delivery confirmation is a benefit and perhaps needed evidence for both the seller and buyer.

[emann]

Re: EBAY: Bat lost/stolen in transit- who should pay?

One really last point. In court, the buyer is going to have to offer some evidence that the item was never delivered. It's fine to refuse for insurance and delivery confirmation, but don't automatically assume that a judge will simply take your word that the item never arrived. Delivery confirmation is a benefit and perhaps needed evidence for both the seller and buyer.

The evidence in this case was a tube stamped at the post office "arrived without contents". It didn't have anything inside when it got to them.

Seller was very understanding and refunded payment. I told him I'd gladly re-purchase the bat if they track it down.