AMI Auction: What Happened???

[Moustache Gang]

Forum,

I was observing the recent AMI auction and noticed some of their top ten listings were bringing in some very decent bids. After the auction was over I reviewed the auction and noticed four of the top six listings were not listed as "sold"? They were as follows:

#1 Paul Hornung Jersey was in the neighborhood of $16K+
#2 Terry Bradshaw was up well over $6K
#5 Sid Crosby jersey
#6 Harold Charmichael Eagles jersey was over $1.5K

Were these jerseys pulled?? or possibly did they not make a reserve. Not selling the Hornung and Bradshaw would make a dent in AMI's overall profit.

Mark

[David]

I don't know for this auction, but this typically means the bidding didn't reach a reserve.

[Neely8]

Not selling the Hornung and Bradshaw would make a dent in AMI's overall profit.

Mark

Great. I guess that means even less consignors get paid now.

[suicide_squeeze]

I would LOVE to respond to this question.

If you want my opinion, please email me privately. I am in good standing with AMI, and want to leave it that way. Say what you will about Victor, but at least he communicates, unlike that unprofessional piece of human waste at Grey you-know-where.

I made a sincere effort to "clear up" our misunderstanding, and apologize for my over-the-top comments about Rich and his company.

I received no phone call, no letter (besides the C & D), no email...nothing.

I know why to.

There was no misunderstanding. Just bad exposure they couldn't allow to continue.


In any case, back to the AMI auction.....did someone win the Pete Rose bat inscribed to Fernando Gonzalez? I didn't see that one listed as "sold" either?

[sportscentury]

I would LOVE to respond to this question.

If you want my opinion, please email me privately. I am in good standing with AMI, and want to leave it that way. Say what you will about Victor, but at least he communicates, unlike that unprofessional piece of human waste at Grey you-know-where.

I made a sincere effort to "clear up" our misunderstanding, and apologize for my over-the-top comments about Rich and his company.

I received no phone call, no letter (besides the C & D), no email...nothing.

I know why to.

There was no misunderstanding. Just bad exposure they couldn't allow to continue.


In any case, back to the AMI auction.....did someone win the Pete Rose bat inscribed to Fernando Gonzalez? I didn't see that one listed as "sold" either?

So AMI is the auction house with which you want to stay in good standing?! C'mon, Steve, you have to admit that that's pretty funny. Share your story! I realize that you're the one person to whom AMI actually responds (if Victor communicates with you, you are in a very small minority), but you really plan to do more business with them? To the point where you (for perhaps the first time ever) won't be outspoken about a problem? I appreciate all of your GUU posts, but this just doesn't add up.

[sammy]

Perhaps they shill bid the items up to the point where no one else bid, and AMI was the "winner". :D

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I refer to AMI's Auction Rule No. 9:

AMI reserves the right to place a bid on any Lot on behalf of the seller up to the amount of the reserve, if any.

[suicide_squeeze]

So AMI is the auction house with which you want to stay in good standing?! C'mon, Steve, you have to admit that that's pretty funny. Share your story! I realize that you're the one person to whom AMI actually responds (if Victor communicates with you, you are in a very small minority), but you really plan to do more business with them? To the point where you (for perhaps the first time ever) won't be outspoken about a problem? I appreciate all of your GUU posts, but this just doesn't add up.

To be honest, it's nothing that everyone couldn't guess, and I just don't find a reason to get into it with another auction house.

Any auction house.

There is no specific "story" to share....just an opinion. And in answer to your question, and as many of the members have eluded to on other threads, the reality of being a true collector is......If and when an item comes up for auction you really want, it doesn't matter who the auction house is that's offering it, or what they have done in the past, that matters.

As a collector, the only thing that matters is obtaining that item you're after. I hope you understand.




Oh, and did I mention.......Sammy basically summed it up in a very short post?;)

[sportscentury]

As a collector, the only thing that matters is obtaining that item you're after. I hope you understand.

My values and principles will always trump my collecting passion, so no, I don't understand. I assure you, there are many collectors who would never do business with AMI, regardless of what they offer.


Oh, and did I mention.......Sammy basically summed it up in a very short post?;)

If you know of AMI shill bidding, I hope you will decide to share the story with us. You have always been great about sharing information to help the GUU family and protect its members/readers.

.

[suicide_squeeze]

My values and principles will always trump my collecting passion, so no, I don't understand. I assure you, there are many collectors who would never do business with AMI, regardless of what they offer.

For whatever reason, you seem to have put on the gloves with me.

I assure you, my values and principles are every bit as lofty as yours, as I am a person of high integrity too.

But sportscentury......if you follow the lead you are suggesting, to avoid places who have shown at one time or another lesser scruples than you feel is worthy of your business.....then who would you buy from?

Grey Flannel?

AMI?

MastroNet (Now Legendary Auctions)?

Lelands....Hunt Auctions......Heritage?

EBAY, for Christs sake???

I mean, c'mon man, you can't be that naive can you? They have all done something we all would consider "shady" at one time or another.

Do you think Bill Mastro is out of the business because he wanted to grow strawberries in his garden fulltime?

Do you think AMI arbitrairily just got rid of their "Max Bid" capabilities on their bidding system because they really wanted to go back to the "good old days of bidding" once you got outbid as high bidder on an item?

No....there were absolutely deals cut withe FBI on both accounts. "You do this, and we won't slap the cuffs on you".....

Ebay has changed it's policies and the way we view and do business on their site in a relentless effort to suppress the illegal activities which plague the auction industry. And they STILL haven't found a sure fire way of avoiding the ever-so-present "shill bidding" problem. I don't know how they ever will, with the possible exception of having every auction a floor auction with mandatory presence to be able to bid.....yeah, THAT would work.

So when an item I want comes up and is available via an auction, I am more concerned with how the bidding is going, and at what level the item I want is at, instead of wasting my time worrying about who the company is that's offering it. First off, if I'm bidding on it, I've already done my homework on the item, so I'm past the point of worrying about it's authenticity. I'm not going to sweat the integrity of the auction house, because being of the type that's above ground and breathing air.....I already know there's probably something amiss somewhere in their existence.

Again, I hope you understand. Robert Edwards Auctions unfortunately isn't the only auction house that offers EVERYTHING I'm interested in.

[suicide_squeeze]

If you know of AMI shill bidding, I hope you will decide to share the story with us. You have always been great about sharing information to help the GUU family and protect its members/readers.

And thank you for the kind comment.....I will continue to do so because it's all that matters.

sportscentury......one last thing to add on my last post....

Because of the kinds of things we collect, it would be impossible to obtain game used items that we seek if there was a prerequisite attached to every possible transaction whereas the company we were winning the item from (or buying, if that were the case) had to "pass" a certain level of "integrity" tests. I mean......forget about our hobby, just look at big business in America in general?

Are you going to cease from buying a Corvette that you've always wanted because the UAW's Union has essentially bankrupted the industry due to the greed and demands placed on the industry? Are you going to move to France because our own Government performed war crimes against terrorist detainees, and most likely breaks many laws on a daily basis to keep us all safe.....well, not safe from taxes, but I don't want to get off target here.

I suppose you could on both accounts (not buy the car......move out of the country, respectively), but isn't that defeating the bigger picture of living where you want to live, and enjoying your life with something that will bring you happiness?

I collect items that are one-of-a-kind, sportscentury. If MastroNet is offering Willie McCovey's very forst career home run baseball he hit in MLB for career homer #1......I can't just pass up on it because I think Bill Mastro shill bid the f&%k out of me on a few other items I won in their past auctions. I would be severly limiting my options to adding to my collection if I followed that path.

Please keep in mind, that is NOT to say that I wouldn't like to see the wrong-doer's punished and for them to get what they deserve. And in large part, aren't we seeing that? There have been some monumental events unfolding in the industry in recent months, basically with auction bidders as the winners, the recipients of the good being done by the changes being rendered. This is a good thing.

Here's to hoping it continues.....and as long as we are all here looking out for one another, the hobby is looking up.

[sarahsdad]

I have never purchased or consigned anything to AMI. And I never will. And I will never do business with any entity that does not pay its consigners. And the reason being is really quite simple. Because the poor individual who consigned their item will probably never get paid for their item. So the next time you place a bid with a deadbeat company think of the poor individual on the consigning end who is not going to get paid. And then determine if you really want to go through with your bid. If you do then you are just as big of a deadbeat as the auction house. You are excited to get your item but the poor guy on the other end has to hire a lawyer after months/years of trying to collect their money on their own. I have sold many items. Sometimes just to thin out my collection. Other times because the car broke down or a payment was due on my kids braces. So not being paid could have potentially caused a hardship. But since I purposefully stay away from deadbeat entities I substantially limit my exposure to not being paid. I suggest we all stay away from deadbeat entities. I have seen the power of this Forum in action. This Forum really does have the ability to determine who stays in business and who does not.
Sarahsdad

[sportscentury]

Suicide - haven't put on the gloves with you at all. Just wanted to hear the story, and your thoughts, and was confused as to why you (someone who is usually very outspoken) weren't sharing. Just curiosity, my friend. I really didn't think that my posts were all that provocative. I've come to expect a certain kind of content from your posts, and was just surprised to not see it with respect to AMI.

As for the Corvette, moving out of the country, etc., the same rules apply. I'm just not an ends-justify-the-means kind of guy... but that's just I. I think it's why I have so much trouble with some of these auction houses.

As for sellers, I trust the folks here at GUU (Chris/Eric/Rob/Mike). I love MeiGray. I think John Taube and Vince Malta are terrific. Sellers like Howard Wolf and Andrew Lang are tops. I could go on. I have some NBA and MLB inside sources who are some very fine individuals. So, when desirable items come up in auction houses such as AMI, it's easy for me to pass. It's just a hobby, not my life. I don't need the items. I just want the items.

Again, not putting on the gloves with you. We're having a conversation about the hobby, that is all.

[sportscentury]

I have never purchased or consigned anything to AMI. And I never will. And I will never do business with any entity that does not pay its consigners. And the reason being is really quite simple. Because the poor individual who consigned their item will probably never get paid for their item. So the next time you place a bid with a deadbeat company think of the poor individual on the consigning end who is not going to get paid. And then determine if you really want to go through with your bid. If you do then you are just as big of a deadbeat as the auction house. You are excited to get your item but the poor guy on the other end has to hire a lawyer after months/years of trying to collect their money on their own. I have sold many items. Sometimes just to thin out my collection. Other times because the car broke down or a payment was due on my kids braces. So not being paid could have potentially caused a hardship. But since I purposefully stay away from deadbeat entities I substantially limit my exposure to not being paid. I suggest we all stay away from deadbeat entities. I have seen the power of this Forum in action. This Forum really does have the ability to determine who stays in business and who does not.
Sarahsdad

I agree entirely.

[suicide_squeeze]

I have never purchased or consigned anything to AMI. And I never will. And I will never do business with any entity that does not pay its consigners. And the reason being is really quite simple. Because the poor individual who consigned their item will probably never get paid for their item. So the next time you place a bid with a deadbeat company think of the poor individual on the consigning end who is not going to get paid. And then determine if you really want to go through with your bid. If you do then you are just as big of a deadbeat as the auction house. You are excited to get your item but the poor guy on the other end has to hire a lawyer after months/years of trying to collect their money on their own. I have sold many items. Sometimes just to thin out my collection. Other times because the car broke down or a payment was due on my kids braces. So not being paid could have potentially caused a hardship. But since I purposefully stay away from deadbeat entities I substantially limit my exposure to not being paid. I suggest we all stay away from deadbeat entities. I have seen the power of this Forum in action. This Forum really does have the ability to determine who stays in business and who does not.
Sarahsdad


I see.

So now, our collections are going to subject to sarahsdad's vehicular maintenance, and based on what everyone else in the hobby is selling to these "deadbeat" auction houses......because, by God, we need to make sure the guys who are selling them the sometimes fraudulent things they pass off as legit.....are GETTING PAID for them! Not to mention the very same "consigners" that are selling these items MAY BE shill bidding their items up because they want us highly honest and integrity-latent bidders to pay through the NOSE for what they're selling.


You can't make this stuff up.


Daddy-O......listen my friend, after all the imformation we have at our fingertips, all of the info displayed in a painstakingly open and honest forum right here, which will pop up in the face of anyone doing a minimal and reasonable amount of research upon deciding which companies to consign with.....I don't feel it's a reasonable request to ask members here to refrain from bidding on an item they may seriously want to add to their collection because "consigners aren't getting paid" by this "deadbeat" auction house.

I commend you for your integrity, and righteous and upstanding feelings on the matter.....you are obviously a good man, a great father, and of the straight and narrow which we so desperately need more of in this country.....but you just can't place that perverbial piano on collectors backs like this. It's not fair. Way too extreme. Too many problems with your well-intended theory.

[sarahsdad]

I can only hope that you are the individual on the other end one day. Given your theatrics and drama over your C&D letter along with your neighbor visiting you, I'll bet you would post one hell of a thread. It is good to know where your morals and ethics stand. You would bid on something from AMI knowing that in all probability the individual who consigned the item would not be paid for it. That is what I read in your posts.
Sarahsdad

[suicide_squeeze]

Suicide - haven't put on the gloves with you at all. Just wanted to hear the story, and your thoughts, and was confused as to why you (someone who is usually very outspoken) weren't sharing. Just curiosity, my friend. I really didn't think that my posts were all that provocative. I've come to expect a certain kind of content from your posts, and was just surprised to not see it with respect to AMI.

As for the Corvette, moving out of the country, etc., the same rules apply. I'm just not an ends-justify-the-means kind of guy... but that's just I. I think it's why I have so much trouble with some of these auction houses.

As for sellers, I trust the folks here at GUU (Chris/Eric/Rob/Mike). I love MeiGray. I think John Taube and Vince Malta are terrific. Sellers like Howard Wolf and Andrew Lang are tops. I could go on. I have some NBA and MLB inside sources who are some very fine individuals. So, when desirable items come up in auction houses such as AMI, it's easy for me to pass. It's just a hobby, not my life. I don't need the items. I just want the items.

Again, not putting on the gloves with you. We're having a conversation about the hobby, that is all.

Nice post....


I'm going to be honest with you. I never intended to stick up for AMI. They have made their bed, and it's impossible for them to sleep in it these days.

I just don't feel the need to kick a man while he's down, so to speak. That's dangerous business.

I will always express my knowledge and experience with the forum, as I would hope the same from everybody. But I do have to make sure that I state things with factual knowledge and back-up...proof, if you will.

Look, I'm not arguing with reason, or integrity, or anything that would add to making our collecting environment better. These bad houses....they are being exposed, busted, and dealing with the fall out as it happens. They have their hands full now. So it would only make sense that they might be looking for a major lawsuit (libel, defamation of character, etc.) to help them along in their plight for survival. I don't want to be involved with it.

I don't disagree with the basis of your comments or even sarahsdad for that matter. I just want to point out that there is a point where doing the right thing on a principle is self defeating. It's not like you have two ropes, one in each hand, and you can't hold the weight of each rock climber any longer, so you need to let go of one to save the other......this is not that serious.

We collect game used/worn/involved items. They are non duplicative. They are one-of-a-kinder's. It's just not a wise decision, as a collector, to go to your auto "NO WAY" predetermined action towards items being offered by questionable sources if it fills a major void in your collection. That's a self defeating practice.

That is my ONLY point here. Past that.......I couldn't agree with you guys more.

I would suggest that we are talking about maybe one, possible two items a year? Is THAT going to keep a large auction house in biz?

Is THAT going to help them in their plight to obtain more consignments with all the bad press out there available to educate potential consigners as to what's going on? I mean, you'd have to be in a cave with no electricity to not know what's going on there....

With the exception of the great guys here running this GUU forum (haven't found anything offered here yet that fills a void in my collection), I have boughten from all of the guys you mentioned, Andrew Lang being most recent here. He filled a MAJOR void in my collection, and I will always be greatful to him for it. But you mention John Taube and Vince Malta.....they have worked for and with Victor at AMI for many years.....so what's up with that?

My point is, where do you draw the line in the sand that you absolutely will not cross?

You need to be objective, use common sense, and make clear educated and well-thought out decisions in each and every case. To throw a blanket statement that you'll "never" buy from an auction house because of this and that....just doesn't work.

I will leave it at this......I truly hope you understand where I'm coming from. I'm with you on 99% of the issues being discussed here. I just can't say "never" to the whole package, because I would be lying to myself and all of you if I did, as explained.

Keep up the good fight, you guys are on the correct path. Our hobby, and the industry, is improving every day. You can't say that about a lot of industries in our world, it's something to be proud of.

[suicide_squeeze]

I can only hope that you are the individual on the other end one day. Given your theatrics and drama over your C&D letter along with your neighbor visiting you, I'll bet you would post one hell of a thread. It is good to know where your morals and ethics stand. You would bid on something from AMI knowing that in all probability the individual who consigned the item would not be paid for it. That is what I read in your posts.
Sarahsdad


Sadly.....that is what you would read in my posts.

And for what it's worth, my so-called "neighbor" that came to visit me? It was anything but a friendly visit. There were other things at play there I am not at liberty to discuss.

If I am bidding on anything that AMI is auctioning off these days, dad, I am smart enough to know that it is either:

A) Listed from a friend or aquaintance of someone at AMI;

B) Supplied to AMI by one of the many "sources" that feed items to AMI to auction off;

C) Is something consigned by an individual who is using AMI as a last resort because the item has either been turned down by other auction houses based on authenticity, desirability, or otherwise.

If you don't understand these things, then all I can recommend to you is to stick around and keep reading, my friend. Education is a wonderful thing.

I would also urge you to reread my posts on this thread, because you missed something.....the meaning of all my words.......the first time around.

[earlywynnfan]

I see.

So now, our collections are going to subject to sarahsdad's vehicular maintenance, and based on what everyone else in the hobby is selling to these "deadbeat" auction houses......because, by God, we need to make sure the guys who are selling them the sometimes fraudulent things they pass off as legit.....are GETTING PAID for them! Not to mention the very same "consigners" that are selling these items MAY BE shill bidding their items up because they want us highly honest and integrity-latent bidders to pay through the NOSE for what they're selling.


You can't make this stuff up.


Daddy-O......listen my friend, after all the imformation we have at our fingertips, all of the info displayed in a painstakingly open and honest forum right here, which will pop up in the face of anyone doing a minimal and reasonable amount of research upon deciding which companies to consign with.....I don't feel it's a reasonable request to ask members here to refrain from bidding on an item they may seriously want to add to their collection because "consigners aren't getting paid" by this "deadbeat" auction house.

I commend you for your integrity, and righteous and upstanding feelings on the matter.....you are obviously a good man, a great father, and of the straight and narrow which we so desperately need more of in this country.....but you just can't place that perverbial piano on collectors backs like this. It's not fair. Way too extreme. Too many problems with your well-intended theory.


Do you go out of your way to be arrogant and abusive towards those with differing opinions? Half of your posts seem intelligent and positive towards the purpose of the forum, but the other half only seem to exist to belittle those who don't agree with you. Maybe you might want to re-read what you've typed before hitting "submit," asking yourself "how am I coming across here?" I work with children all day long, and I wouldn't dream of talking to them like you talk to some of your fellow collectors.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[sarahsdad]

He is what he is. We have all read his posts and have all drawn our own conclusions. AMI has already admitted not being able to pay their consignors yet they still continue to take consignments and people continue to bid on them now knowing that the consignors will not be paid. And Suicide Squeeze, in his posts, will buy their items knowing all of this. Enough Said. I am not a legal scholar, some would argue that I am not even a scholar:D but in my opinion that puts stolen property in your possession. You would not want me on the jury sitting in judgement of you. But to each his own. I, for one,will not participate in that. This is a hobby. Not bread on my table.

[suicide_squeeze]

Do you go out of your way to be arrogant and abusive towards those with differing opinions? Half of your posts seem intelligent and positive towards the purpose of the forum, but the other half only seem to exist to belittle those who don't agree with you. Maybe you might want to re-read what you've typed before hitting "submit," asking yourself "how am I coming across here?" I work with children all day long, and I wouldn't dream of talking to them like you talk to some of your fellow collectors.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com


No, Ken, I'm good, thanks.

I don't need to reread anything. Obviously you have no knowledge of sarahsdad's previous attacks directed ONLY at me, so I'll take that into consideration in your mistakingly accusing me of "going out of your way to be arrogant and abusive towards those with differing opinions?" If he were simply posting here because he had a different opinion, it would read that way. But it doesn't. He is posting because he wants to pick up the sword again...

Maybe you should reread sarahsdad's post where he is not-so-subtlety refers to anyone who doesn't agree with his view as a "deadbeat". Or, if we want to be men about this whole thing and call it on it's face value, he is ONLY referring to me.

In the meantime, have a nice day.

[suicide_squeeze]

He is what he is. We have all read his posts and have all drawn our own conclusions. AMI has already admitted not being able to pay their consignors yet they still continue to take consignments and people continue to bid on them now knowing that the consignors will not be paid. And Suicide Squeeze, in his posts, will buy their items knowing all of this. Enough Said. I am not a legal scholar, some would argue that I am not even a scholar:D but in my opinion that puts stolen property in your possession. You would not want me on the jury sitting in judgement of you. But to each his own. I, for one,will not participate in that. This is a hobby. Not bread on my table.


sarahsdad,

I was referred to buying maybe one....."possibly 2" items a year....if that.

Like I said, maybe you should reread the posts?

I will say I think that you finding anyone who bids on items in AMI's auctions (assuming you won one of them you meant.....right?) is putting stolen property in one's possession (the winner) is a fairly good laugh.

I mean.....please tell me you were kidding, weren't you???

[sarahsdad]

I have said all I need to and am going to say. It is all yours now.
sarahsdad

[suicide_squeeze]

Do you go out of your way to be arrogant and abusive towards those with differing opinions? Half of your posts seem intelligent and positive towards the purpose of the forum, but the other half only seem to exist to belittle those who don't agree with you. Maybe you might want to re-read what you've typed before hitting "submit," asking yourself "how am I coming across here?" I work with children all day long, and I wouldn't dream of talking to them like you talk to some of your fellow collectors.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com


That's exactly why I don't talk to the forums members the way you talk to your children you work with, EWfan.....because the members here aren't children. I show them the respect they deserve by communicating on an adult level.

I have no problem with a differing opinion on anything. I welcome it, it usually conjures up stimulating intellectual conversation.

Usually.

[33bird]

I have to agree. Nobody should buy or sell from these crooks. They still owe me 22k from last September. I lost my Bird jersey to them; haven't got a red cent; had to hire a lawyer to try and salvage something. Many others in the same boat. Buying from them is like buying stuff on the black market.

[suicide_squeeze]

Forum,

I was observing the recent AMI auction and noticed some of their top ten listings were bringing in some very decent bids. After the auction was over I reviewed the auction and noticed four of the top six listings were not listed as "sold"? They were as follows:

#1 Paul Hornung Jersey was in the neighborhood of $16K+
#2 Terry Bradshaw was up well over $6K
#5 Sid Crosby jersey
#6 Harold Charmichael Eagles jersey was over $1.5K

Were these jerseys pulled?? or possibly did they not make a reserve. Not selling the Hornung and Bradshaw would make a dent in AMI's overall profit.

Mark

Getting back to the original post and point of this thread, Moustache Gang, I actually called to inquire about one item because it too did not show as sold. I was directed to Keita, who told me "we'll need to fix that one too". She told me it had in fact sold.

What I took from that was that they were having technical difficulties in the way their system was posting the results.

I find that hard to believe.....but that's just me. Why does it work on most of the items, but on a select few...there are technical difficulties?

[sylbry]

We collect game used/worn/involved items. They are non duplicative. They are one-of-a-kinder's. It's just not a wise decision, as a collector, to go to your auto "NO WAY" predetermined action towards items being offered by questionable sources if it fills a major void in your collection. That's a self defeating practice.

My point is, where do you draw the line in the sand that you absolutely will not cross?

You need to be objective, use common sense, and make clear educated and well-thought out decisions in each and every case. To throw a blanket statement that you'll "never" buy from an auction house because of this and that....just doesn't work.

Sarahsdad drew the line that he is comfortable with. And you are criticizing him for it, as if he didn't already sit down and decide on his personal stance. Who are you to say he didn't appy common sense or make a well-thought decision.

I happen to agree with Sarahsdad. If I need to cross my moral or ethical grounds to obtain something for my collection, well then it is time to sell the collection.

[mvandor]

sarahsdad,

I was referred to buying maybe one....."possibly 2" items a year....if that.

Like I said, maybe you should reread the posts?

I will say I think that you finding anyone who bids on items in AMI's auctions (assuming you won one of them you meant.....right?) is putting stolen property in one's possession (the winner) is a fairly good laugh.

I mean.....please tell me you were kidding, weren't you???

You know, hard not to interpret it that way. AMI doesn't pay the consignors but takes your money. That's theft, and your purchase really is essentially accepting stolen property.

I personally would not buy from any auction house operating as AMI presently is. I find it simply immoral if not illegal.

[suicide_squeeze]

I have to agree. Nobody should buy or sell from these crooks. They still owe me 22k from last September. I lost my Bird jersey to them; haven't got a red cent; had to hire a lawyer to try and salvage something. Many others in the same boat. Buying from them is like buying stuff on the black market.


Greg,

You are doing all you can do. And I wish you nothing but the best of luck in recouping what's rightfully yours.

I'm just curious, however. Have you considered what your chances would be of recouping your monies owed, if everyone followed your advice and just stopped buying (bidding) on their items cold turkey?

They would be forced to close their doors within a few weeks, one month or two at the most.

Is that really what you want?


You know, the funny thing is, I find myself in an absolute laughable position here. Some of the posting members here have had the twisted effect of making it seem like I am in one way or another standing up for AMI. You guys couldn't be farther off base. That's nonsense. If you ONLY KNEW what you were talking about......I'm on YOUR SIDES.

At the risk of sounding "arrogant and abusive towards" you guys, which of course I am not attempting to do in any way, shape, or form......I will state for the record:

I have NEVER consigned one single solitary item with AMI.....never.

I have my reasons, and they are not important to this discussion.

But for you guys that have been wronged in your dealings with them, and in a show of emotion and anger are now coming out and making statements that essentially are saying "GO OUT OF BUSINESS, and FAST!!!".....I think you need to take a deep breath and maintain a bit of composure here.

We are all pulling for you guys to get your money back. We would be disingenuous and deceitful members of this forum to suggest anything else.

I will also state this for the record:

If I had any ability to help ANY of you owed money for past consignments get your money back by stating something here that would help you in that endeavor, I would be doing just that.

So, I am using discretion on coming here and posting, while you are all in this compromised and unenviable mess, and am watching with a hopeful heart that it all works out for you. But I am suggesting to you as a friend (albeit an unknown one at that) to use your heads, to follow proper procedures in seeking payments owed, and not shoot yourselves while hunting. The hospital may be out of your blood type when you get there...

capisce?

[earlywynnfan]

I see both sides, Squeeze's and Sarahsdad's. If AMI had something I really really really wanted, something I felt I'd never see again (and they had one such item right around Christmas time,) I'd probably bid. But for all the people who have been screwed, these bids are just allowing AMI to continue, and people are paying for it in the wrong way. Sure, it's just a couple bids, Squeeze, but if everyone just puts in a "couple bids" and only several of us only win "just one item," well, that's enough to keep them afloat another month, which is another handful of consignors getting nada.

"I was referred to buying maybe one....."possibly 2" items a year....if that."
You're enabling them, and saying "I've got mine" kinda stinks when so many others are getting empty promises or fraudulant items. I believe in karma, and while you and I aren't getting stuck with empty consignor promises, we're not the ones withholding their money, any bids we make are just helping those who are doing it. Somehow, somewhere, that will (and should) come back on us.

I think Sarahsdad has a point: if we ALL stop bidding, NOW, AMI will go under, which appears to be what they deserve (disclaimer: I've never been shafted by them, just going on what I've heard.) So a few choice items won't be available through them, so what? The items will pop up again somewhere.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[cordovacollector]

That's the way I see it too. It might not be your intent SS but it sounds like, "it's not really stealing if I don't do it very often." Or, "it's not really bad if I really want it." For me it would take the joy out of whatever I bought if I had to get it that way. But that's just me.

[cordovacollector]

You know, hard not to interpret it that way. AMI doesn't pay the consignors but takes your money. That's theft, and your purchase really is essentially accepting stolen property.

I personally would not buy from any auction house operating as AMI presently is. I find it simply immoral if not illegal.

Sorry I didn't include this with my post. I was agreeing with Mvandor.

[suicide_squeeze]

You know, hard not to interpret it that way. AMI doesn't pay the consignors but takes your money. That's theft, and your purchase really is essentially accepting stolen property.

I personally would not buy from any auction house operating as AMI presently is. I find it simply immoral if not illegal.


I can't argue the immoral part, but it's not theft, and will never be proven to be if that point is brought up in court. This is an ongoing concern, and if the heat gets too high, they may declare bankruptcy.

It is not an uncommon event in business for one that is not being run properly to have cash flow issues. In laymen's terms, if your overhead is exceeding your receivables, it isn't going to be long until you close the doors. At what point do your activities become "criminal" in your attempts to keep the company running? That's an issue that the lawyers would have to prove in the event of a bankrupcy filing. Again, I ask, is that what you guys want? Is a legal battle, criminal or otherwise going to insure you get your money back?


Okay, look guys....

Then let me be the bad guy and ask the OBVIOUS question.....

WHY......WHY......WHY are there people that are consigning with them?



I would state the obvious, for an answer, and direct you to one of my earlier posts.....there are three main reasons, IMO.

While AMI was an ongoing successful auction house in their earlier days, they would of course pick up many consigments from a lot of people. But the word is out, and you can see the ill effects from the quantiy and quality drop-off in their last few auctions. Those days are obviously over. So, the few "suppliers" of good still coming their way are....whom, exactly?

Well.....one of them came banging on my freaking residential front door one day, and if you think I don't have a dog in this fight WITH YOU GUYS who are SEARCHING TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK.......think again.

Be adult here guys.....let the smoke clear on the fire's terms. DO NOT pour gasoline on it. Take it day by day, and get your money back!

Make THAT your number one priority.

Don't add to your troubles by spewing out angry suggestions that will only trip yourselves up in your efforts to recoup your consignment money. I can't be any more blunt than that. Don't DO IT.

It's OK for you to live with morals and integrity, but let's help eachother out here, not hurt ourselves by trying to appear like we wear white and have a glowing ring above our heads.

[sportscentury]

Getting back to the original post and point of this thread, Moustache Gang, I actually called to inquire about one item because it too did not show as sold. I was directed to Keita, who told me "we'll need to fix that one too". She told me it had in fact sold.

What I took from that was that they were having technical difficulties in the way their system was posting the results.

I find that hard to believe.....but that's just me. Why does it work on most of the items, but on a select few...there are technical difficulties?

Congrats on identifying one of the many lies. Like I've said many times, several of us have been exposing this stuff on GUU for years. It amazes me that people continue to do business with them. They have a rolodex of prepared/canned responses to questions, comments, and complaints. You just happened to get the "we'll need to fix that one too" response. If memory serves me correctly, that is "explanation" number 78 in the rolodex.

.

[sportscentury]

If I need to cross my moral or ethical grounds to obtain something for my collection, well then it is time to sell the collection.

Bingo.

[sportscentury]

I can't argue the immoral part, but it's not theft, and will never be proven to be if that point is brought up in court.

Suicide, this is just too unbelievable for words ... even for your posts. Not trying to pick a fight (so please don't accuse me of taking off the gloves again), but am just blown away (i.e., disturbed) by some of your posts, and had to share my disbelief.

[suicide_squeeze]

Suicide, this is just too unbelievable for words ... even for your posts. Not trying to pick a fight (so please don't accuse me of taking off the gloves again), but am just blown away (i.e., disturbed) by some of your posts, and had to share my disbelief.

THEFT: The act or an instance of stealing: larceny.

STEALING: To take from another without right or permission.

LARCENY: The taking, without claim of right or without permission, of the perconal goods of another.



When an item is consigned, there is a contract (form) signed giving the auction house the right to offer it with the consigners permission.

As the winner of an auction item, the winning bidder is claiming the right to take possession and thereby recieve ownership of it, with all due rights upon payment for the item.


Do we really need to go down this silly road?


Sarahsdad posted a cute little analogy, and I understand the anger and resentment towards the place of discussion. But we don't need to attack our fellow members here for what is obviously a mincing of words and an overly expressed amount of hatred for a company that has run amuck, do we?

I will repeat......I am on your sides, consigners and angry forum members.

I can't be any more clear than that.

[sportscentury]

THEFT: The act or an instance of stealing: larceny.

STEALING: To take from another without right or permission.

LARCENY: The taking, without claim of right or without permission, of the perconal goods of another.



When an item is consigned, there is a contract (form) signed giving the auction house the right to offer it with the consigners permission.

As the winner of an auction item, the winning bidder is claiming the right to take possession and thereby recieve ownership of it, with all due rights upon payment for the item.


Do we really need to go down this silly road?


Sarahsdad posted a cute little analogy, and I understand the anger and resentment towards the place of discussion. But we don't need to attack our fellow members here for what is obviously a mincing of words and an overly expressed amount of hatred for a company that has run amuck, do we?

I will repeat......I am on your sides, consigners and angry forum members.

I can't be any more clear than that.

Let's leave legality to the side, particularly since we don't know what jurisdiction would govern, what crimes could legimately be charged, or what the exact language of said crimes is (though I appreciate your astute explication of the criminal law).

Leaving legality aside, you're okay with what you agree is immoral? This is the part of your previous post to which I was responding when I said I found it unbelievable and disturbing.

Suicide, I'm sure you'll find some way to dance around this. And, quite honestly, I find this discussion to be tiresome. So, I offer you the last word on the topic, at least with respect to our exchange. Have a great rest of the weekend (I mean this most genuinely, not at all sarcastically). I'll look forward to your commentary on tomorrow's Lakers/Magic game.

[sarahsdad]

Suicide Squeeze:

Last time I looked there was nothing illegal with coveting thy neighbors wife but it does cross a moral and ethical line. And this philosophy is consistent with your position on buying from deadbeat auction houses that continue to take consignments and conduct auctions but fail to pay their consignors. It may not be illegal but it does cross an ethical and moral line that you fail to see. Or maybe you do see it but you are OK with crossing it. What say you now?
sarahsdad

[sarahsdad]

Suicide Squeeze:
You defined Larceny, Theft and Stealing for us. Can you now please post the definition of Possession of Stolen Property?
sarahsdad

[suicide_squeeze]

sportscentury,

OK.......I'll bite.;)

All I meant to say, was you guys need to understand....I hear what you are saying. I understand the anger and resentment and feelings towards sincerely not wanting to give this auction house a dime. But what you guys have been suggesting would become disaster for the consigners who are still owed a bunch of money. That self-fulfilling prophecy would spell disaster to the ones waiting for payment.

So am I "going back on my morals and lowering my level of integrity" by maybe possibly bidding on ONE single item that pops up in an AMI auction during a calendar year that may fill a void in my collection, because we all know they are struggling to stay afloat?

I just don't understand the thought of how that benefits the situation.

And AMI, whether you guys want to accept this as truth or not, is on ongoing concern.....they are an active business, in business. Suggesting they are "stealing" from consigners, and that anyone who bids is an accompliss to the "crime" (my words....."deadbeat" is what was referred to earlier).....is silly nonsense and inaccurate. If they were breaking laws doing these types of things, I assure you they would have been shut down by now.

As I stated before, nothing would make me happier than to see all of the consigners get paid up. But the cold hard reality is this: The only way that happens is if AMI can turn it around. Otherwise, someone along the way is going to left behind holding an empty bag.

Get after it, people, if they owe you money! In the meantime, I would suggest you hope AMI gets LOTS of fine consigments in the meantime from their "sources" who, I might add, you shouldn't give a s#!t about. Just pray they get BIG BUCKS and a LOT of bids on whatever is offered, and get your money back as fast as you can.

[suicide_squeeze]

Look....this all seems to have taken a bad turn, with bickering going on between us members who should be looking out for our own. It's silly.


I want to take a theoretical approach to this all, and I hope you can follow and understand where I'm coming from.

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT intended to be a suggestion that these are my opinions on the current situation at AMI. This is simply food for though to illicit deep thought on how to handle your emotional anger if you are one of the consigners owed money from an auction house and while you are trying to receive payment....ANY auction house.


Okay members, consider this ficticious scenario.....

-An auction house has (for whatever reason) fallen out of the good graces with the public.

-They owe a lot of money to a lot of different consigners, but are faultering in payments because they don't have the money.

-Furthermore, they are troubled with severe fall-offs of incoming consignments because the word is out, and consigners are reluctant to take the risk any longer.

-It has been common knowledge for some time, public common knowledge to anyone who makes even a feeble attempt to find it, that this particular auction house is in trouble.

-At this point, if you are owed money, you need to take action to insure you are in the "food line"....legally represented and noted as being a creditor to this ongoing concern.

-After doing so, and with all of the knowledge out there about this "company" and their problems, you are told by your attorney(s) to "relax and back off, we'll take it from here"...

-The auction house is still getting in consignments, just a lot less. It is harder to get quality items, and the transparency of what is being offered is tougher on the auction house, because there are so many fewer items being offered. Maybe, just maybe, since there is more of an opportunity now to research a potentially desireable piece, it is harder for the house to push through other "less desirable pieces with questionable authenticity", because they could be shown rather quickly as being "bad", further damaging the chances of the house staying in business.

-So, the most reasonable explanation left on where the consignments are coming from, would be either through personal contacts, aquaintences in the inner circles of the business, or flat up from "sweat shops" who are in the business of coming up with bad items they modify, tweak, or otherwise, to make look as authentic as possible, to offer to the unsuspecting public. Add to that, possible forgeries of certain items that are being offered, all to increase "receivables" to help keep the doors open.


Now I ask you......If you are owed thousands of dollars from this auction house, WHY are you concerned about the consigners who are feeding items to this (ficticious, in my example) auction house?

You shouldn't be.

Chances are, the items are bad, non-desirable, and fabrications/forgeries to mislead. Furthermore, these "consigners" should know better by now. You can't police EVERYONE in the hobby, even with your good intentions. And, if the stuff is "good", well that would be the best scenario! Then whoever wins it is happy, got an authentic item, and a consigner will get paid!

If the house makes enough profit in the longrun, they may ALL get paid.

If they eventually run out of gas and have to close the doors......who will be the last group of consigners who was feeding all of the items to this house that you guys are worried about at this point?

Think about it. The answers start to come a bit into focus....

Could it be the inner circle of associates that have been supplying questionable items for years?

If so, do you really care about these consigners?

[suicide_squeeze]

OK Administrators.......I see you removed my definition of "POSSESSION OF STOLEN PROPERTY"

My bad....thanks for understanding it was all in good humor, however...:o

[cordovacollector]

But if they get "new" monies in, they would (hopefully) go to the new consignors and pay for ongoing expenses and overhead. I doubt enough new monies could be generated to pay the former consignors that were cheated in the past.

When a guy is digging a hole and suddenly finds he can't get out but you let him keep on digging, all he does is make a bigger hole that's harder to get out of. Perhaps kindest thing to do is close doors now and pay what they can to past consignors. And have the courts be sure they settle the resititution when they find other employ ... with the caveat that they can't be hole diggers again.

At least customers wouldn't have to worry if they were buying stolen goods or if their payments were going toward old debt and thus creating new consignors that won't be paid either. And former consignors wouldn't be offered "ponzi" schemes to pay past debt.

I think we've beaten this horse to death and it would be a kindness to close the thread. All have their opinions, and it serves no purpose to shout at the deaf.

[suicide_squeeze]

But if they get "new" monies in, they would (hopefully) go to the new consignors and pay for ongoing expenses and overhead. I doubt enough new monies could be generated to pay the former consignors that were cheated in the past.

When a guy is digging a hole and suddenly finds he can't get out but you let him keep on digging, all he does is make a bigger hole that's harder to get out of. Perhaps kindest thing to do is close doors now and pay what they can to past consignors. And have the courts be sure they settle the resititution when they find other employ ... with the caveat that they can't be hole diggers again.

At least customers wouldn't have to worry if they were buying stolen goods or if their payments were going toward old debt and thus creating new consignors that won't be paid either. And former consignors wouldn't be offered "ponzi" schemes to pay past debt.

I think we've beaten this horse to death and it would be a kindness to close the thread. All have their opinions, and it serves no purpose to shout at the deaf.

cordova,

Unfortunately I agree with you on all accounts.

It seems to be heading that way.

I just hope that the people owed all that money find a check in the mail one day from AMI for the whole amount...one way or the other. The whole thing is a mess, and it's terrible.

[sarahsdad]

I see now. Your bids are more of a philanthropic gesture towards your fellow collectors who have not been paid. Why didn't you say so? This whole misunderstanding could have been avoided.
sarahsdad

[Lokee]

Well I just read all 5 pages of this topic. I will now bow out of this topic. Thanks