America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

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  • suicide_squeeze
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 1442

    America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

    Well,

    I hope you all enjoy this post.....my last in regards to anything related to Grey Flannel.

    Apparently, speaking your opinion about someone's customer service, or lack there-of, when commenting on a post another member posted in regards to the same thing......is now considered "actionable" to Grey Flannels lawyers.

    Apparently....referring to a place as a "schlockhouse" without making any other reference as to any wrongdoing like fraud, making libelous comments, or calling out an item as being bad is considered "the last warning" to Grey Flannels lawyers.

    In fact, it is apparent to me that if you have an opinion at ALL that is not to the liking, complimentary in nature, or favorable to Grey Flannel.....you had better keep it to yourself.

    So, as I promised.......and up to this point felt I had kept my promise.....I will not be commenting at all on anything related to Grey Flannel.


    I received my second C & D letter today, stating that (the lawyer) had been informed that I had apparently changed direction in not wanting to be part of any unwarranted attacks against them, or derrogatory in nature.

    For whatever reason, they have singled me out as the "example" of what they will do when someone is acting (verbalizing) in a manner that is offensive to the company.

    I feel I have been maintaining VERY CLEARLY that everything I have stated since the first C & D letter was simply my opinion. An OPINION. Not an attack, a statement meant to defame or cause damage.......just an added opinion. But as I promised the attorney who I called on the first C & D letter that I would avoid this, because I did not want to be involved with even the remote possibility of legal action for simply stating my "opinions".

    So good luck forum members. The best I can figure, the second letter was instigated by someone at Grey Flannel who is obviously reading the posts, and my comments, posts #10, 21, 23, 33, and 34 from this thread:




    .....prompted this letter.

    So, I am not looking for a fight. You win Grey Flannel. If I ever make another comment abnout ANYTHING someone else posts, I will respond only to the item itself, and in the form of fact finding questions, in line with the polocies of this forum.

    Happy forth of July, fellow forum members. Just remember, in America, you have a right to free speech......unless you fight the "establishment" and piss off the wrong group. Then, you get no apple pie.

    Regards,

    Steve
  • spartakid
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2008
    • 1281

    #2
    Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

    Steve, they are obviously just trying to scare you, they aren't going to do anything. If you had a bad experience with them, and you use that experience as an example. The biggest part of their case for slander or libel, has to be that your statement(s) are untrue. It's cheap to have a letter sent, they're just hoping that you'll shut up, don't give them that achievement As long as you have facts to back up what you're saying, there's nothing they can do, a good company would ask how they can fix or take your suggestions into consideration. Clearly something's not Kosher, they know it, and are trying to hide it. Shoot, it would cost them more in lawyers' fees than they would ever get from a case against you, which would be unlikely in itself. I would bet they wouldn't do anything past a letter, because they know anything else would be pointless and a waste of time for them. Plus, it's bad PR when the issues disclosed. Point being, don't let them intimidate you, everyone knows, including them, they can't do anything.
    Ricardo Montoya

    ri.montoya at yahoo dot com

    Comment

    • suicide_squeeze
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2008
      • 1442

      #3
      Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

      Originally posted by spartakid
      Steve, they are obviously just trying to scare you, they aren't going to do anything. If you had a bad experience with them, and you use that experience as an example. The biggest part of their case for slander or libel, has to be that your statement(s) are untrue. It's cheap to have a letter sent, they're just hoping that you'll shut up, don't give them that achievement As long as you have facts to back up what you're saying, there's nothing they can do, a good company would ask how they can fix or take your suggestions into consideration. Clearly something's not Kosher, they know it, and are trying to hide it. Shoot, it would cost them more in lawyers' fees than they would ever get from a case against you, which would be unlikely in itself. I would bet they wouldn't do anything past a letter, because they know anything else would be pointless and a waste of time for them. Plus, it's bad PR when the issues disclosed. Point being, don't let them intimidate you, everyone knows, including them, they can't do anything.
      Ricardo,

      Thanks for the kind comments. But it's obvious I at some point got into someone's craw. I'm not just under their skin, I've reached the plueral cavity.

      Where are the other forum members receiving letters like I have? I haven't heard of any. Are they just keeping quiet about it? Certainly there is no problem with sharing the fact you received a C & D letter, so why am I the only one talking? I'm on number two, which I feel wasn't warranted as I have made no attacks or suggestions as to any criminal, fraudulent, or similar activity whatsoever.

      The only thing I may have said that could be a "My bad....sorry" was calling them a "schlockhouse". If you are reading Grey Flannel ....I apologize for that opinion/statement. It is not in good nature in following with the forum rules.....this is true, and I recognize it, and won't do it again.

      But is it approaching "actionable" legal action against myself? Wow....I don't see how.

      Opinion's are just that.....a dime a dozen. Everyone has one, and they are only meaningful to the one who takes something from them. Otherwise, they are harmless. But the letter I received states otherwise. I just don't wish to push the issue.

      Comment

      • Mr.3000

        #4
        Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

        I seriously would not be so easily intimidated by any C&D letter received from someone's attorney. ANYONE can have their attorney write up a letter and send it to you.


        Watch....


        It is my opinion that Grey Flannel SUCKS. I would not EVER buy anything from them due to their poor customer service and from what I have seen....the many, many issues related to items they have sold. I would never choose to purchase any item from them. If anyone looking to do so....please be sure to read the MANY threads on this forum related to this topic.

        Jason Adair
        Culpeper, Va (won't take a law degree to find my full address)



        Should I receive any idle threat from their attorney...I will tell them then what I will tell them now....

        They can take their little threats and shove them where the sun does not shine.


        I am fully entitled to my OPINION. I am fully entitled to offer advice to others on whom they should and should not do business with. Nothing said even borders libel or slander.


        I find threads like this.....where people are afraid because of a "scare tactic" letter....quite funny. Not funny at you Squeeze.....just funny in general.



        /rant

        Comment

        • spartakid
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2008
          • 1281

          #5
          Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

          Well, there you have it couldn't have put it better myself. Let us know if you get a letter Jason.
          Ricardo Montoya

          ri.montoya at yahoo dot com

          Comment

          • Mr.3000

            #6
            Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

            Originally posted by spartakid
            Well, there you have it couldn't have put it better myself. Let us know if you get a letter Jason.

            I'll gladly let you know and post a pic....BEFORE I use it as TP


            As it's obvious, I have a low tolerance for companies who make constant mistakes, then try to bully people around to shut them up from calling them out on said mistakes and/or poor business practices.

            Comment

            • Neely8
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2006
              • 553

              #7
              Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

              Originally posted by Mr.3000
              I seriously would not be so easily intimidated by any C&D letter received from someone's attorney. ANYONE can have their attorney write up a letter and send it to you.


              Watch....


              It is my opinion that Grey Flannel SUCKS. I would not EVER buy anything from them due to their poor customer service and from what I have seen....the many, many issues related to items they have sold. I would never choose to purchase any item from them. If anyone looking to do so....please be sure to read the MANY threads on this forum related to this topic.

              Jason Adair
              Culpeper, Va (won't take a law degree to find my full address)



              Should I receive any idle threat from their attorney...I will tell them then what I will tell them now....

              They can take their little threats and shove them where the sun does not shine.


              I am fully entitled to my OPINION. I am fully entitled to offer advice to others on whom they should and should not do business with. Nothing said even borders libel or slander.


              I find threads like this.....where people are afraid because of a "scare tactic" letter....quite funny. Not funny at you Squeeze.....just funny in general.



              /rant
              You just made the list.

              Comment

              • chakes89
                Senior Member
                • May 2006
                • 1706

                #8
                Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

                What the hell is Grey Flannel?

                (And I am being serious)
                I collect Jay Bruce and Cincinnati Reds Minor League stuff


                My email address: hakes89@gmail.com

                Comment

                • TriplexXxSports
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 1285

                  #9
                  Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

                  Originally posted by chakes89
                  What the hell is Grey Flannel?

                  (And I am being serious)
                  WOW! SERIOUSLY CHAKES?! It is one of the larger Auction Houses....

                  The Hobby's premier auction site for game-worn jerseys, graded cards, championship rings, and Hall of Fame autographs.

                  Comment

                  • TriplexXxSports
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 1285

                    #10
                    Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

                    Man, you would think that in this economic downtime they would welcome more folks with open arms. Just doesn't make much sense to me.

                    I'm glad to know that they are so well off that they pick and choose who's money is good to them.

                    Oh, SH*T! I just made the list!

                    Comment

                    • KrAzY3
                      Junior Member
                      • May 2009
                      • 17

                      #11
                      Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

                      Threats and the like are easy to make on the internet. However, they are not that easy to back-up. Drawing up a letter is cheap, actually taking legal action? Not so much...

                      I've been threatened with legal action before. Nothing came of it (and I did not back down because I was doing nothing illegal). If you are clearly outside the law, or in highly questionable territory like file sharing you might decide to capitulate but it's very hard to bring legal action against someone for something they said on the internet. I know of one case in which someone simply claimed other individual was using their computer and they got off even though they were clearly outside the law.

                      I have had my site shut down (Consumption Junction emailed my host and succeeded in shutting down my site for a short while), I've even had a site officially banned by a country (Pakistan, the BBC site showed the really cool memo). So yeah, certain actions can be taken... but dragging you down to court? They don't want to make a spectacle of this and when you get down to it a voice in the internet can't really be silenced.

                      Comment

                      • hblakewolf
                        Banned
                        • Nov 2005
                        • 1870

                        #12
                        Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

                        Originally posted by KrAzY3
                        Threats and the like are easy to make on the internet. However, they are not that easy to back-up. Drawing up a letter is cheap, actually taking legal action? Not so much...

                        I've been threatened with legal action before. Nothing came of it (and I did not back down because I was doing nothing illegal). If you are clearly outside the law, or in highly questionable territory like file sharing you might decide to capitulate but it's very hard to bring legal action against someone for something they said on the internet. I know of one case in which someone simply claimed other individual was using their computer and they got off even though they were clearly outside the law.

                        I have had my site shut down (Consumption Junction emailed my host and succeeded in shutting down my site for a short while), I've even had a site officially banned by a country (Pakistan, the BBC site showed the really cool memo). So yeah, certain actions can be taken... but dragging you down to court? They don't want to make a spectacle of this and when you get down to it a voice in the internet can't really be silenced.
                        Based on this thread, the following story reported by Michael O'Keffe of the NY Daily News may be relevant:

                        By Michael O'Keeffe
                        New York Daily News

                        Justice may be blind, Grey Flannel president Richard Russek recently learned, but it certainly knows when a letter of authenticity ain't worth a damn.

                        Grey Flannel, the Long Island sports memorabilia house, bills itself as the world's foremost authenticator of game-used jerseys, but Judge Marilyn Milian issued a sharp dissent in a July 7 broadcast of "The People's Court."

                        "The Case of the Ripken Rip-off" began when collector John Cherpock bought what dealer Sean Ford claimed was a Cal Ripken game-used retro jersey tailored for the second game of the Orioles' July 18, 2001, doubleheader with the Texas Rangers. Cherpock paid $2,475 for the jersey, which was accompanied by a letter of authenticity from Grey Flannel.

                        "I wouldn't have bought it without the letter from Grey Flannel," Cherpock said.

                        Six months later, Cherpock consigned the jersey to Robert Edward Auctions. The New Jersey auction sent it back because, contrary to Grey Flannel's LOA, the second game of the doubleheader was canceled thanks to a chemical spill that shut down parts of downtown Baltimore.

                        Cherpock told Russek and Grey Flannel CEO Howard Rosenkrantz he wanted them to reimburse him for the $2,475. Grey Flannel was liable, Cherpock says, because it issued the letter vouching for the jersey. "This is why people pay premiums for certificates, because they hold themselves out as experts," Cherpock says. Russek and Rosenkrantz offered Cherpock the $400 Ford had spent to get the jersey authenticated. Cherpock filed suit in Nassau County small-claims court, but agreed to bring the case to TV when contacted by The People's Court producers.

                        "Even if I lost, I would have let the public know what kind of guys they are," he says.

                        Before Judge Milian, Russek admitted his company had erred. But he said Grey Flannel didn't owe Cherpock the $2,475 because Cherpock didn't hire Grey Flannel. Besides, he added, a disclaimer on the bottom of the certificate of authenticity was just opinion.

                        Russek said Grey Flannel thought it had reliable sources for its opinion - a letter from a limo driver who said Ripken gave him the jersey and a letter from a guy named Charles Jeffrey - but he later acknowledged he didn't even have a letter from the driver.

                        "Let me talk to you about negligence," the judge said. "There are two types of negligence. There's plain old simple negligences, and then there is negligence that is so out there, that is so bad, that is so wrong, that it is gross negligence...it takes two seconds to just find out if the game even ended up being played on the date and time you are certifying."

                        Milian then went ballistic: "What you have is just a paragraph signed by some schmo named Charles Jeffrey with no address, no phone number!" she screamed.

                        By the end of the show, Russek looked like a whipped dog. "This is what gives the memorabilia business the bad reputation that it enjoys right now," the exit interviewer told him.

                        "Yeah, well listen, in almost all cases we're correct," Russek countered. "We made a mistake. The judge ruled. What can I say?"

                        "Yeah, but gross negligence," the interviewer added. "You didn't even try."

                        Howard Wolf
                        hblakewolf@comcast.net

                        Comment

                        • earlywynnfan
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2005
                          • 1271

                          #13
                          Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

                          Can you post a scan of the letter? I'd love to know what is says, exactly.

                          Thanks,
                          Ken
                          earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

                          Comment

                          • jbcindc
                            Member
                            • Jul 2008
                            • 61

                            #14
                            Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

                            Suicide Squeeze,

                            Mr. 3000 (Jason) is absolutely right about being intimidated by a C&D letter. I'm not an attorney, but I've written many C&D letters on behalf of some of my clients and they are meant to intimidate people into ceasing whatever action we don't like, such as using the client's mark or brand without permission. The only way for us to enforce a C&D is to initiate costly legal action; which we wouldn't do because it isn't worth the money. Even though we were clearly correct in our position it is just too costly to win the argument in court. Not to mention that we wouldn't want the dispute picked up by the trade media.

                            In your situation it isn't even clear that Grey Flannel would prevail. Depending on what action they took it could turn out to be more costly and more damaging to Grey Flannel. A slander case, for example, would be suicide (pun intended) to Grey Flannel because in cases such as slander they put Grey Flannel's business dealings under a microscope. No business wants that.

                            That said, there's probably nothing to be gained by continuing to attack Grey Flannel. The C&D letters, whether they irritate, intimidate or just upset you don't appear to be worth the stress they seem to put on you. The one thing I would recommend is that you reply in writing to the attorney who wrote you the C&D letter denying whatever Grey Flannel has alleged. It's always best to have a paper trail.

                            Happy 4th of July,

                            Jason

                            Comment

                            • Mr.3000

                              #15
                              Re: America, 4th of July.....and Grey Flannel....

                              Howard, thank you for posting that. Not only was it completely relevant for this thread.....it was highly entertaining! Grey Flannel was on People's Court and got verbally smacked around by my favorite tv judge....Judge Milian. I wonder if they tried to hand her a C&D letter during that tongue lashing they received? LOL

                              Comment

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