MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

[jppopma]

I recently purchased a jersey off Ebay which the seller claimed was game worn and autographed. To support this, the seller provided a MLB authentication number and there was also an auction house JSA letter. Everything looked good until I got the jersey and went to print the MLB information for my records. According to the MLB site, the jersey is listed as an autographed jersey with no mention of game worn, or even game issued.

I contacted the seller who insist that MLB authentication is often wrong and in cases where the jersey is both game worn and autographed “the MLB Hologram does not always list the entire history of the piece”. He also went on to say that there are other sellers who purchased these jerseys from the auction house who have sold them as game worn also (like two wrongs make a right?).

He claims that the auction house listed them as game used and he is going by their word, yet the JSA cert is a direct copy of the auction house listing and does not say or show game used anywhere on it. He also tried to say that I got a steal and that he had paid much more for the jersey (which I pulled up the listing from the auction house and see is a lie).

When I questioned all of this, the seller told me that I should have asked questions before bidding and that he is confident in his listing.

My question first is, how bad has the MLB site gotten and would I even consider believing the seller with his stories? I do not collect autographs (prefer my gamers unsigned), and would have no use for this jersey based on what the MLB and auction house list it as.

Thanks for any help and I will likely submit an Ebay dispute to try to avoid this jersey.

[camarokids]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

I bought a very nice Akinori Iwamura game use bat at the Devil Rays Fan Fest 2008. Th bat is cracked and shows tons of use. It is MLB Authenticated, however only the autograph is authenticated, because the bat did not go from the field to the authenticator. They only witnessed the signing.

Also some items never get entered into the database.

So your best bet is to be your own authenticator.

Also post pics for help from the forum.

Does the jersey show any use or washings?

I would not worry too much.

Good luck!

[zipster1]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

I agree with the last post that MLB authentication many times does not show the game worn/use status.

I received a jersey thru a charity auction at the Cleveland Indians Stadium. It was game worn and autographed with the MLB sticker. Same thing, got home and printed the certificate and it only showed "autographed". I called the team, and they assured me it was game worn, but that MLB authenticators weren't on site to authenticate.

They save up the jerseys to make sure autographs are done in front of the authenticators.

[dcgreg25]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

I too have had experiences where the MLB database is either incorrect or incomplete. This includes a bat that is authenticated just for the signature but is definitely game used as well as a jersey that was authenticated as signed but mine showed good use and had the correct tagging, etc.

One of the reasons I feel this way is because I have not known mlb authenticators to authenticate public signings. I could be wrong but most everything I have seen that comes with a mlb hologram came directly from the teams. So it appears likely that the jersey is at least game issued or maybe game used depending on how much use it shows.

This is different from other signings like Upper Deck. Upper Deck does signings for atheletes (Lebron, Jordan, etc) at which the athelete will sign items that are submitted by the public. I see a ton of game used shoes on ebay where Lebron has signed them and people try to imply that the authentication from Upper Deck is for the game use and the signature when the paperwork clearly states the authentication is just for the signature. My advise would be if you are comfortable with the other aspects of the jersey it appears most likely that the mlb database may be incorrect.

However, I would be interested to see the paperwork from the other auction house that did not state it as game used, that may change my opinion. I am sure others will chime in with more info on if MLB authenticates signings that include outside items.

Good luck!

[dcgreg25]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

Zipster, I would love to know what jersey you won from the Indians...I am a big tribe collector.

[joelsabi]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

I recently purchased a jersey off Ebay which the seller claimed was game worn and autographed. To support this, the seller provided a MLB authentication number and there was also an auction house JSA letter. Everything looked good until I got the jersey and went to print the MLB information for my records. According to the MLB site, the jersey is listed as an autographed jersey with no mention of game worn, or even game issued.

I contacted the seller who insist that MLB authentication is often wrong and in cases where the jersey is both game worn and autographed “the MLB Hologram does not always list the entire history of the piece”. He also went on to say that there are other sellers who purchased these jerseys from the auction house who have sold them as game worn also (like two wrongs make a right?).

He claims that the auction house listed them as game used and he is going by their word, yet the JSA cert is a direct copy of the auction house listing and does not say or show game used anywhere on it. He also tried to say that I got a steal and that he had paid much more for the jersey (which I pulled up the listing from the auction house and see is a lie).

When I questioned all of this, the seller told me that I should have asked questions before bidding and that he is confident in his listing.

My question first is, how bad has the MLB site gotten and would I even consider believing the seller with his stories? I do not collect autographs (prefer my gamers unsigned), and would have no use for this jersey based on what the MLB and auction house list it as.

Thanks for any help and I will likely submit an Ebay dispute to try to avoid this jersey.

personally i would filed a dispute with paypal and get my money back. id would argue the item is not a described.

it would have been ideal to have looked up the number prior to bidding but if the mlb authentication is an autograph sessions its not guaranteeing anything but the autograph.

i guess it all comes down to how the item was described. i would never take a sellers word without doing some investigation myself such as checking the mlb database and asking more questions.

good luck.

[jppopma]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

Thanks guys. I should have mentioned that it's an all star warm up jersey, so there is little to no use, as would be expected.

My main concern is that both the auction house and the MLB cert list it only as autographed. The specs all match up, but for the all star game, they may order alot of extras to have signed or other purposes short of being team issued.

[Tedw9]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

I am sure others will chime in with more info on if MLB authenticates signings that include outside items.

Good luck!

I can tell you that MLB authenticates outside items at public signings like the ones held at Fanfest.

[joelsabi]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]

I contacted the seller who insist that MLB authentication is often wrong and in cases where the jersey is both game worn and autographed “the MLB Hologram does not always list the entire history of the piece”. He also went on to say that there are other sellers who purchased these jerseys from the auction house who have sold them as game worn also (like two wrongs make a right?).

this irks me the most. so if someone incorrectly describes a similar item you have for sale it is ok?


try to get your money back.

[dcgreg25]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

There have been other threads on here about All Star warm-up jerseys..knowing that I would suggest you file a dispute and get your money back.

[tigerdale]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

I always ask for the hologram number if its not posted & check it myself...I agree w/ the previous posts...the autograph is authenticated...but that doesn't mean the jersey isn't worn..its just not authenticated as such.

[coxfan]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

The dugout lineup cards for the Braves are all signed by Cox, but the MLB hologram's website description merely describes them as game-used with no reference to the autograph. Since Cox apparently waits to sign them after the game, when the authenticator is probably present, the omission of a reference to the autograph on the hologram description is strange.

I think the holograms often do omit details, even when the part included is correct. I have a ball that was listed as Sosa's Race to 600, but the hologram only states " Single second inning". It doesn't actually say Sosa hit it, but fortunately his single was the only one( for either team) in that inning, so it can be inferred that he hit it. The hologram reference also omits that it was thrown by Ben Sheets.

[jppopma]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

Just as an update. I followed up with Hunt to see if there could have been something other than what was on the JSA cert. They were very helpful and said that it was listed and sold by them as autographed only; based on not listing any game use in the description and the corresponding estimated price range that had. Here is a copy of the listing:

2008 Milton Bradley autographed American League All-Star Game Workout Day/Home Run Derby jersey. Navy blue knit jersey has "American" lettering across the front and "Bradley" on the back. Bradley has signed the shirt in black on the #21. Texas Rangers team patch is affixed to the right sleeve with MLB All-Star Game logo patch on the left sleeve. Majestic and size flag tags are at the base of the tail front. Jersey has an affixed MLB hologram on the back and includes LOA from James Spence Authentication: NM

($300.00-$400.00)

I am starting to think this is where jerseys go bad, one seller making it out to be something it isn’t. I’d really hate to take his word and then find out later after selling the jersey that I was party to someone’s lie.

[tilley72]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

The All-Star jerseys that Hunt's sells are the second set. As I understand it, each player is issued two sets of the Home Run Derby/Warmup Day Jerseys. One of these sets is signed by the player and given to either MLB or Hunt Auctions, for auction later in the year, and the other set the player gets to keep and do with it what they may.

I've purchased a few of these jerseys and I'm still not 100% clear on what they are. They MAY have been worn by the player, figuring the player wore both sets, or MAY NOT have been worn by the player, if they only wore one set. The jerseys have all the proper tagging, as they are manufactured exactly the same as the set that the player wears.

I'm not sure whether these jerseys are just signed by the players and given to Hunts/MLB or if the players get both sets for the All-Star game and at the end of the events one set is given to Hunts/MLB.

-Andrew

[jppopma]

Re: MLB Authentication vs. seller's word

Thanks for all of the help, guys! I did check with Hunt Auctions and confirmed that they listed and sold the jersey as only an autographed jersey. They explained this based on no mention of use, even light or none, as well as their estimate price.

I provided all of this information to the seller and received a few emails back from him saying that I had no idea what I was talking about and that he was told by the auction employees that it was game used. He also said that he did not take returns and to be happy with the jersey.

The seller’s demeanor changed once I explained that I was looking to seek criminal charges for false pretenses with intent to defraud and my position in law enforcement. Unfortunately, between the detective being on vacation, getting sent out of town on a special detail, and my own vacation….I opted to simply return the jersey to him.

I would have enjoyed nothing more than to set some precedent in court for these kinds of actions that go on way too much in our hobby. Luckily, I caught this jersey before it changed hands a bunch of times and the stories were lost in the mix…hopefully, the seller will not try this again. Maybe next time I have a chance to make a difference, things won’t be so busy with other caseload.