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Eric
05-21-2006, 10:50 AM
Wells blasts Bonds as he passes Ruth


By: RANDY MILLER (Sun, May/21/2006)

PHILADELPHIA — Boston Red Sox pitcher David Wells admires Babe Ruth so much that he once bought a game-used Ruth hat and wore it while pitching a game for the New York Yankees.

And on the day Bar-ry Bonds finally caught Ruth for second place on the all-time home run list, the outspoken Wells stuck up for his hero by trashing Bonds for being a suspected steroids user.

“He's hit a few home runs off of me while he was juiced,” Wells said of Bonds before the Red Sox-Phillies interleague game at Citizens Bank Park. “He hit a lot of them when he was juiced. He's a hell of a ballplayer. A lot of players hit home runs when they were juiced.”

When word broke that Bonds hit his 714th homer during a San Francisco-Oakland interleague game, Wells went into a 15-minute rant about Bonds and steroids.

“They'll all say Babe's number is legit and Barry's is not,” Wells said. “He's admitted he said he took it but unknowingly. I think that's a crock.”

Wells began naming names of suspected users — Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro and Mark McGwire — then out of nowhere brought up Astros second baseman Craig Biggio and Phillies spare outfielder David Dellucci.

Asked if everybody under suspicion now, Wells said:

“Now, everybody is, I would think. Did you see that little bitty guy, Dellucci, hit 29 last year? How many this year? One? I know Dave. I've never suspected him of doing them. Who else? Biggio. ... To me, the suspicion is on everybody.”

A 5-foot-11, 195-pounder, Dellucci hit just 27 homers in 541 career games from 1997-2003, then 46 over 235 games the last two seasons, including 29 in 2005 for the Texas Ran-gers.

As for Bonds, Phillies pitcher Cory Lidle is on record saying his career home run total should have an asterisk.

Wells disagrees ... for now.

“Not until proven guilty,” Wells said.

“If he cheated as a player, that's just as bad as being a scab.”

Eric
05-21-2006, 10:53 AM
For those of you who don't remember what the first line is referring to- see below...

» June 28, 1997: Yankees' P David Wells starts the game against Cleveland wearing Babe Ruth's autographed cap from the 1934 season. Manager Joe Torre makes him take it off after the 1st inning since it doesn't conform to the team's current uniform. Without the cap, Wells blows a 3-0 lead as the Indians go on to a 12-8 victory

trsent
05-21-2006, 09:43 PM
Boo hoo for Cory Lidle and Dave Wells.

They should take their paychecks and check their big mouths at the door.

I tell you what, if they put any of those asterisks by any records from this era, I'll write The Commissioner and ask they they put the asterisk back over the Roger Marris now-broken record.

Oh wait, they did once determine, "A Season is A Season".

Swoboda4
05-21-2006, 10:52 PM
Does anyone realize what was just displayed above? Bonds admitted to using steriods-but not knowing he did. Well,how long did he use it unknowingly? Take that length of time and subtract HR's(as well as strikeouts)and whats the total? If I get extra money in my paycheck(and didn't know it)-I'm not guilty to a point-but I have to pay excess money back. Right? You bet your ass I'll be paying it back.

trsent
05-21-2006, 11:14 PM
Does anyone realize what was just displayed above? Bonds admitted to using steriods-but not knowing he did. Well,how long did he use it unknowingly? Take that length of time and subtract HR's(as well as strikeouts)and whats the total? If I get extra money in my paycheck(and didn't know it)-I'm not guilty to a point-but I have to pay excess money back. Right? You bet your ass I'll be paying it back.

Dream on, he wasn't breaking Bud's rules if he did take any drug that affected his play. Baseball didn't outlaw the use of Steroids (with enforcement) until what, last season?

A season is a season, Barry Bonds has tied Babe Ruth's career home run total and he may break the all-time Major League Baseball record set by Henry Aaron.

Life will go on, and nothing will be done about it.

Nathan
05-21-2006, 11:18 PM
Joel,

And possession of and/or use of steroids without a (legitimate) medical prescription is now (and was when Bonds' career started) a federal crime. I'm not really sure how defenders of Bonds can keep trying to say that the rules of baseball override those of the federal government in regards to defining what is and is not a federally-mandated felony.

trsent
05-22-2006, 12:04 AM
Joel,

And possession of and/or use of steroids without a (legitimate) medical prescription is now (and was when Bonds' career started) a federal crime. I'm not really sure how defenders of Bonds can keep trying to say that the rules of baseball override those of the federal government in regards to defining what is and is not a federally-mandated felony.

Ok, let me know when Ferguson Jenkins will be removed from Baseball's Hall of Fame after his run in with marijuana and we can talk some more about drug use in America and in Major League Baseball.

Otherwise, don't waste your fingers typing a reply, because you are telling me a guy who abused marijuana during his playing career is ok to be a member of the Hall of Fame, but a guy who used another illegal drug should be hung by his balls and maybe even have his arms chopped off because he will hit more home runs than The Babe?

Nice double standard.

JETEFAN
05-22-2006, 08:06 AM
Ok, let me know when Ferguson Jenkins will be removed from Baseball's Hall of Fame after his run in with marijuana and we can talk some more about drug use in America and in Major League Baseball.

Otherwise, don't waste your fingers typing a reply, because you are telling me a guy who abused marijuana during his playing career is ok to be a member of the Hall of Fame, but a guy who used another illegal drug should be hung by his balls and maybe even have his arms chopped off because he will hit more home runs than The Babe?

Nice double standard.

Federal law is not the point here, did pot make Jenkins a great pitcher?....NO, did gambling make Rose the all time hit king?....NO, did steroids help Bonds hit homers?........still thinking........YES!!!!! Bottom line, whether innocent or not, whether he knew it or not, Steroids gave Bonds an unfair advantage over Ruth or anyone else, and the almost 1000 more at bats didn't hurt!!!!

bigtime59
05-22-2006, 08:07 AM
Ok, let me know when Ferguson Jenkins will be removed from Baseball's Hall of Fame after his run in with marijuana and we can talk some more about drug use in America and in Major League Baseball.

Otherwise, don't waste your fingers typing a reply, because you are telling me a guy who abused marijuana during his playing career is ok to be a member of the Hall of Fame, but a guy who used another illegal drug should be hung by his balls and maybe even have his arms chopped off because he will hit more home runs than The Babe?

Nice double standard.

I'm fairly certain that smoking dope does not enhance your game (makes you sluggish and hungry...eat bad food...get fat). I'm fairly certain that taking steroids does (increased muscle mass...quicker recovery time from injury). Yes, a double standard applies here, because, if the evidence we've all seen is correct, Barry Bonds took performance enhancing drugs for the specific purpose of setting the all-time home run record.
A double standard does apply here, just like it does to the deliberate sale of fake "game used" merchandise...and well it should.
Barry Bonds was a much more interesting player, to me, when he was a slender 30/30 guy than he is in his current, bulked-up, freak show incarnation. I've no wish to remove any of his body parts. I just wish he'd go away...

otismalibu
05-22-2006, 09:06 AM
Groundhog day.

mr.miracle
05-22-2006, 09:37 AM
The bottom line here is that despite all the wishful thinking and debate about an asterisk being placed in front of bonds records or anyone else's for that matter, we have no way of knowing when Bonds took steroids knowingly or otherwise along with many other suspected steroid abusers. Until somebody who actually supplied Bond's with steroids comes forward with irrefutable proof documenting sales of steroids to bonds (which is about as likely to happen as aliens landing on the White House lawn tonight) like it or not, there is simply nothing that can be done about it. I am by no means defending Bonds or anyone else for that matter but what do we really expect to happen with this investigation that is currently under way. I highly doubt that George Mitchell will uncover six individuals who supplies Barry with steroids along with dated receipts, taped phone conversations, financial records and a list of all steroids purchased and when. Since nobody has ever come forward with any of this info. against any player previously, there is little reason to suspect that anyone will going forward. This coupled with the fact that I would highly doubt that if Bonds were acquiring steroids from Greg Anderson or someone else on the street, that fast eddie down at the local Gold's Gym is keeping detailed buy and sell records of an illegal substance that could land him in the big house. Even if someone did possess any of this info. coming forward with it will implicate that person as well as set up the potential for a hugh lawsuit if there is any loophole in what that person is claiming. Even Jose Canseco for all his steroid claims has never been able to provide any type of irrefutable proof of these individuals he called out taking steroids. How about naming names of suppliers and providing records of purchases etc. Canseco cannot because depending on how high up he was connected some heads would role if the wrong people were implicated. Unfortunately, there is just very little that baseball can do other than convict Bonds and other steroid abusers in the court of public opinion. Since the current steroid laws were not in place in baseball when Bond's or anyone else took steroids what can be done about that now as far as punishment. If it is determined that McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa etc. took steroids but we have no definite proof when, what can really be done? All those players are retired or disgraced from the game. It is a very dangerous thing to start talking about striking record from the record books or placing asterisk by a players name. I just don't believe that could happen or should happen.

suave1477
05-22-2006, 09:41 AM
WE GO OVER THIS TOPIC TIME AND TIME AGAIN

Either way you look at it Bonds cheated and he is going to break the home run records doing so. There is nothing going to be done about it by Major League, otherwise it would have been done already. His record is not going to be erased bcuz Major League will not do so and at this day in age they are not going to add an asterik next to the record bcuz of the political garbage they will get about it.

If this was 1961 and Bonds did what he did he would have been banned from baseball and an asterik put next to his record. This is 2006 and nothing will be said or done.

mr.miracle
05-22-2006, 09:51 AM
Apparently homer 714 was really 616. Who knew.

By Patrick Hruby
Page 2


Heads turned. The ball bid the park adieu. With a single, violent swing of his bat, Barry Bonds made baseball history Saturday in Oakland, climbing one home run closer to the immortal Willie Mays. Six hundred sixteen home runs. It's a mind-numbing number, a body of work to rival Tupac's posthumous releases. Congratulations are in order.
Wait. Hold up.
You say Bonds actually has 714
Next up in his sights: 755.


Er, no. Good one. But no. Sure, if you want to get all technical, there's no arguing that Bonds has forcefully redirected 714 pitches into home run territory over his 21 major-league seasons. Yet according to the ziggurat of evidence complied in the book "Game of Shadows," Bonds also ingested a Mexican pharmacia's worth of performance-enhancing drugs during his peak slugging period, making some of those dingers less authentic than country crooner Kenny Rogers' reconstructed face.
Question is, how many? How many of Bonds' home runs are honest? And how many came courtesy of his reported juicing?
Start with a caveat: There's no way to know. At least not for sure. The homers themselves can't be replicated in a lab, let alone studied. The variables involved in each at-bat are too numerous and complex to tease out completely. The specific physical effects of taking bovine bulk builders and female sex hormones -- Bonds reportedly took both; did he end up lactating buttermilk? -- are poorly understood.
Truth be told, we can only manage a crude approximation. An educated guess, but a guess nonetheless.
On the other hand, that sure beats an unsightly asterisk.
In taking away 98 home runs since 1999 -- when Bonds' allegedly began using steroids -- Page 2 sought to quantify the performance-enhancing effects of steroids in four hitting-related categories: strength, stamina, longevity and confidence. To do so, we spoke to a swing guru, a major league scout, training and biomechanics specialists, and an expert on the physics of baseball. We looked over hit charts and home run distances, tabulating every Bonds blast from '99 to now. We even got help from a nuclear scientist (albeit a nuclear scientist who really likes baseball).
We then did the math. Follow along...
1. Strength

"I don't know if steroids are going to help you in baseball. I just don't believe it. I don't believe steroids can help eye-hand coordination [and] technically hit a baseball."
-- Barry Bonds, Jan. 22, 2005
Bonds is correct. Steroids alone won't help you hit a curveball. But coupled with skill and training, they will help you hit that same curveball farther. Here's how:

http://espn.go.com/i/editorial/2006/0511/photo/g_bonds88.jpg
Stephen Dunn/Getty Images
Back in 1988, Bonds hit 24 home runs for the Pirates.


Steroids build size and strength. They allow longer, harder workouts and promote better physical gains than would otherwise be possible.
According to "Game of Shadows," Bonds began using performance-enhancing drugs and training with Greg Anderson following the 1998 season. The results were astounding. In 1997, a team media guide listed Bonds at 206 pounds. By spring training of 1999, he weighed 225, with authors Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams claiming:

"...almost all of the gain was rock-hard muscle ... the change in Bonds' physique was startling. Around the Giants, they took to referring to Bonds as The Incredible Hulk. When Bonds took batting practice, he was driving the ball farther than he ever had before."

In 2003, Muscle and Fitness magazine reported that Bonds, then about to turn 39, weighed 230 pounds and was in "the best shape of his life." Bonds himself told the magazine that his improvement as a player was due to "training and nutrition," making him "a better athlete than before."
An accompanying photo shows Bonds and Anderson sitting in front of BALCO ringleader Victor Conte, who has a hand on each man's meaty shoulders. All three are smiling. And why not? At an age when most top athletes have a hard time simply maintaining their chiseled physiques, Bonds packed on 20-plus pounds of added bulk.
Extra size and strength equals extra bat speed. Robert Adair wrote the book on baseball physics. Literally. His "The Physics of Baseball" has enjoyed multiple editions and is considered the classic text in its field.
BARRY'S HOME RUNSHere is the complete list of Barry Bonds' home runs since 1999 (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hruby/HRchart/060512) -- including the 83 we took away from his career total after our analysis.
On page 139, Adair provides an equation relating bat speed (that is, the speed of the bat's sweet spot at the moment it makes contact with the ball) to player weight:
V = k sqrt(M/(m+M/81))
(Note: V is the velocity of the bat in miles per hour, m is the bat weight in pounds, M is the player's weight in pounds, sqrt means square root and k is a constant, 10, in mph. Phew!)
According to Adair's formula -- and don't worry, we asked him to double-check the calculations, since our last math class came in high school -- the 206-pound Bonds generates a bat speed of 67.34 mph, while the 228-pound Bonds swings the same 32-ounce bat at 68.81 mph, an increase of 1.48 mph.
Trust us: That's more impressive than it sounds.
Bat speed is the key to power hitting. Jack Mankin is an electrical engineer. He also is a youth baseball coach and something of a baseball swing junkie.
Way back in 1986, Mankin bought a VCR that featured frame-by-frame replay, a rare and exotic luxury at the time. He taped about 100 major league games, then set out to chart the swing mechanics that separated great hitters from average ones.
Mankin taped plastic strips to his television screen. He used a grease pencil to trace body movement. He plugged his findings into computer spreadsheets. He's still at it today.
Recently, Mankin looked over clips of Bonds, from 1988 and the present. Conclusion?
"There's absolutely no change," said Mankin, who runs a Web site devoted to bat speed. "The only difference is that back then, most of his home runs were just enough to clear a 360-foot fence. Now, he's up to 400-some with the same dang swing."
The same dang swing. Only faster. In an excellent 2005 San Diego Union-Tribune article (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/baseball/20050331-9999-lz1s31sterds.html) detailing the effects of steroid use on power hitting, major league scouts claim Bonds' bat speed not only stopped declining but also increased during the time he worked with Anderson -- an observation consistent with Adair's weight-to-bat speed formula.

http://espn.go.com/i/editorial/2006/0511/photo/g_bonds93.jpg
Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images
In his first year with the Giants in 1993, Bonds won his third MVP award, hitting .336 with 46 home runs.


"I've seen bat speed improve," a longtime major league scout told Page 2. "But I can't say it's because of steroids."
How does extra bat speed help a hitter? Simple. While many factors influence the height and distance of a flyball, the most important variable is the speed of the bat at the instant it connects with a pitch.
Mont Hubbard, a mechanical and aeronautical engineering professor at the University of California-Davis, co-authored a 2003 American Journal of Physics article examining home run ball flight. An accompanying graph plots bat speed against flyball distance -- and like a rising homer, the curve sloped upward, almost in a straight line.
The faster the swing, the longer the long ball.
"We work with bat speed a lot, especially with a lot of the [major league] guys who come down here before spring training," said David Donatucci, director of the International Performance Institute at the IMG Academies in Bradenton, Fla. "If you're working [at] the skill [of hitting] and increasing in strength at the same time, you'll become a more powerful hitter."
Alan Nathan, a baseball physics buff and nuclear physics professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, estimates every one mph of extra bat speed translates into roughly six feet of added flyball flight distance. Back to Bonds. By bulking up and increasing his bat speed, he added about nine feet to his average flyball distance -- the difference between the warning track and the outfield seats.
ANGRY BLOGGER FAQQ: I'd like to pick apart this article. Where should I start?
A: Pretty much anywhere. Everything in the article -- especially the number 616 -- is rooted in educated guesswork.
Q: Such as?
A: The player mass to bat speed formula. Physically modeling a big-league swing -- what physicist Robert Adair calls "a rather complex energy transfer system" -- isn't easy. Adair's formula is a logical approximation rooted in the assumption that the total energy a batter can generate is linearly proportional to his muscle mass. The root assumption is pretty sound; the bat speeds it produces are estimates.
Q: Let's talk distance. Are Bonds' home run lengths totally accurate?
A: No. Home run distances are historically -- and notoriously -- inaccurate, calculated via mathematical formulas, specialized cameras, inexact eyeballing and old fashioned walking out the distance by foot. Some teams, like Boston, don't even bother. Check out this excellent Wall Street Journal article (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05245/564674.stm) for more information.
Q: OK, so the home run distances are approximations. How about your estimates of where they cleared the park?
A: Also guesses. And fairly crude ones at that. Along with date, opponent and distance, each Bonds home run came tagged with a letter code marking the general area it left the stadium. Stats, Inc. provided Page 2 with a radial chart (click to see popup) (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hruby/060512#) matching each letter to a portion of the field. Page 2 then matched groups of letters to the outfield distances available for each stadium: center, right, left, down both foul lines, and sometimes a few additional (often quirky) markers. In general, we broke things up as follows: C-E, left-field line; F-K, left; L-O, center: P-U, right; T-X, right-field line.
Could these estimates be more accurate? Definitely. Watching videotape of each Bonds home run, for instance, would be a good place to start. Unfortunately, Page 2 has neither the time nor the access. (If anyone out there wants to take up the gauntlet, drop us a line. We'd love to know what you find out).

Q: How about all those extra walks the supposedly juiced-up Bonds started receiving? Even if a non-juiced Bonds hit home runs less often, he would have seen more pitches. Shouldn't Barry get a few home runs back?
A: We struggled with this, but ultimately decided to leave it out, mostly because walks are highly dependent on: a) game situation; b) the pitcher on the mound; c) manager discretion.
Still, for the sake of argument, suppose that a non-juiced Bonds walks in 1999-2005 at the same rate he did in 1996-98, once every 4.84 plate appearances. He gets 223 extra at-bats, and at his 1996-98 home run rate (one per 13.45 at-bats), hits another 17 home runs.
• Complete Angry Blogger FAQ (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hruby/FAQ/060512).



Now for the fun part. Using statistics and a chart provided by STATS, Inc., Page 2 examined every home run hit by Bonds from 1999 to May 2 of this year, 301 in all.
The entry for each home run lists the ballpark where it was hit, the estimated distance it traveled and the approximate area where the ball cleared the field of play. Comparing each homer to the ballpark dimension diagrams found at andrewclem.com, we sought to answer a single question:
If you take away the extra nine feet of flyball distance Bonds generated by putting on 20 pounds, how many of his home runs fall short?
Here's how the answer breaks down:
• 1999: four home runs out of 34.
• 2000: nine out of 49.
• 2001: 18 out of 73.
• 2002: 11 out of 46.
• 2003: 10 out of 45.
• 2004: 13 out of 45.
• 2005: one out of five.
• 2006: zero out of five.
In total, Page 2 estimates that 66 Bonds home runs would have landed inside the fence sans his alleged steroids use. Again, this is an approximation. But is our guess wholly unreasonable?
According to Adair, a 1 percent change in flyball distance translates into a roughly 7 percent change in the probability of hitting a home run. Since Bonds enjoyed a 2.4 percent increase in flyball distance, he should have seen a 16 percent increase in home run production.
Our number -- 66 home runs -- represents about 22 percent of Bonds' home runs since 1999. The numbers are in the same ballpark. Emphasis on in.
2. Stamina

[B]"Before, I would train really hard in the offseason and work out just a little bit during the season, trying mostly to keep my flexibility. Then I'd hit a wall in August. But the last few years I've been training all year, and that has changed my whole career, because I don't get weaker during the year. I don't suffer a down spell or hit bottom. I stay strong all year."
-- Bonds, in Muscle and Fitness magazine, 2003</I>
Perhaps you've heard the term: The dog days of summer. Temperatures rise. Injuries nag. Fatigue sets in, mental and physical. The season seems endless. Older players feel the grind most acutely.
Some switch to lighter bats. Others skip batting practice. Anything to conserve precious energy.
Enter steroids. In "Juiced," Jose Canseco writes that performance-enhancing drugs kept him feeling fresh, as if the last day of the season was the first day of spring training. "Game of Shadows" reports that using human growth hormone helped Bonds retain his buffed-up body without rigorous training.
That August wall? Knocked down like the one in Berlin. Get pumped, stay pumped, with more pep to boot.

Without steroids, how much would Bonds have sagged in the stretch? We don't really know. But we can make another reasonable guess. Assume that instead of gaining 1.8 mph in bat speed, an aging Bonds would have lost that amount by the end of July.
Subtract nine more feet from Bonds' charted home runs from August through October, and here's how many die on the warning track:

http://espn.go.com/i/editorial/2006/0511/photo/g_bonds98.jpg
Otto Gruele Jr./Getty Images
In 1998, Bonds hit 37 home runs -- 33 fewer than Mark McGwire.


• 1999: six home runs.
• 2000: three home runs.
• 2001: five home runs.
• 2002: zero home runs.
• 2003: one home run.
• 2004: one home run.
• 2005: one home run.
Add it up, and that's 17 more homers we're taking away from Bonds, bringing our running total to 83. Time to check our work.
3. Longevity
"I don't have to [use steroids]. I mean, I'm a good enough ballplayer as it is. I don't need to be any better. I can't get any better at this age."
-- Bonds, in an interview with Bob Costas, 2002
No kidding. At age 39 in 2004, Bonds hit a home run every 8.3 at bats -- the second-best rate of his career, and far superior to Babe Ruth (16.6), Willie Mays (17.1) and Ted Williams (15.8) at the same age.
Is Bonds simply a marvelous athlete, benefiting from advances in training and nutrition unavailable to the sluggers of yore? Perhaps. Or perhaps Bonds has access to better chemicals.
Testosterone levels decline with age. Typically, so does athletic performance. Recent research suggests that both testosterone and human growth hormone may have significant anti-aging effects.
Now consider: At ages 31-33, the top 10 home run hitters not named Barry Bonds (and not including contemporaries Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Rafael Palmeiro and Ken Griffey Jr.) collectively averaged a dinger every 13.8 at-bats. From age 34 through 39, however, that average fell to one home run per 15.6 at bats, a drop-off of 1.8.
Similarly, Bonds at ages 31-33 averaged a home run every 13.5 at bats. But from age 34 onward -- when he allegedly started using performance-enhancing drugs -- Bonds has averaged one home run per 8.5 at bats, an unprecedented surge.
If "Game of Shadows" is correct, steroids helped Bonds throttle Father Time, becoming more powerful at an age when most players slip significantly. How many fewer home runs would he have hit had his production declined at the rate of his non-juiced peers?

Let's crunch the numbers:
• At 31-33, Bonds' home run rate is 13.5. He suffers a drop of 1.8, making his 34-39 rate 15.3;
• At 34-39, Bonds had 2,477 at-bats;
• Divide 2,477 by 15.3, and you get 162.
By the standards of his historic peers, Bonds should have have hit about 162 homers from age 34 through 39; in reality, he smacked 292. The difference: 130 home runs.
Are all of those bogus? Hard to say. Give Bonds the benefit of the doubt. Suppose, for argument's sake, he's as ageless as the man he's chasing, Hank Aaron.

http://espn.go.com/i/editorial/2006/0511/photo/g_bonds01.jpg
Jed Jacobsohn/Getty Images
Bonds cracks his record 71st home run in 2001.


At ages 34-39, Aaron enjoyed a rare rise in his home run rate, from 15.4 to 13.0 (explained, in part, by a move from Milwaukee's County Stadium to more homer-friendly Atlanta Fulton County Stadium). Assign the same moderate 2.4 boost to Bonds. Then divide his at-bats accordingly.
Bonds ends up with 223 homers, much closer to his real-life total of 292. And the difference between the two -- 69 fewer home runs -- is pretty close to the 83 we've already taken away.
Confidence

"There are some things I don't understand right now. The balls I used to line off the wall are lining out [of the park]. I can't tell you why. Call God. Ask Him."
-- Bonds, to the San Francisco Chronicle, 2001
So Bonds is stronger. More energetic. In goes the needle. Out go the long balls. His confidence surges.
Out go more long balls.
Feel good. Play better. Self-assurance is the great sports intangible, nearly as important as raw talent. Think you can do it? You're halfway there.
"Look, steroids make you better," says the major league scout, a former player himself. "But the other factor is confidence. You can't measure that. But there is a value there, and athletes all thrive on it. They need to know that they can perform."
Call God. Spoken like a man who knows he can perform. Bolstered by steroids, would a supremely self-assured Bonds swing for the fences more often? Seems likely. From 1987 to 1998, Bonds' average ground ball to flyball ratio was 0.81; between 1999 and last season, it was 0.62 -- an increase of about 19 extra flyballs for every 300 balls put into play. Maybe a pumped-up Bonds was trying harder to go deep. Maybe he belted additional home runs as a result.
More on confidence: "Game of Shadows" reports that performance enhancers improved Bonds' eyesight, helping him track pitches. Coincidence? Not necessarily. Extra bat speed means extra time to differentiate between a fastball and a slider.
Moreover, a 2002 University of California San Francisco study found that older men with higher testosterone levels performed better on cognition tests than men with lower levels. Two years later, Harvard researchers discovered that men with higher testosterone levels are quicker to solve spatial-relationship problems.
Really, what is spotting and crushing a major league fastball if not a spatial-relationship problem ... played out at warp speed?
"People talk about bat speed, but nobody talks about [Bonds'] eyesight," said the major league scout. "He sees a pitch so quick, so early. He can see it and relay that information to his muscles faster than anyone else. That's what all good hitters do. They know what the ball is when it has been out of the pitcher's hand for just 10, 15 feet. Only special people do this."
How many home runs are quicker reactions and a juice-boosted feeling of invincibility worth? Could be five. Could be 25. Could be more, if fearful opposing pitchers lack confidence and fail to summon their best stuff.
What seems clear is this: Confidence helps, same as muscle. Let's say increased self-assurance allowed Bonds to belt 15 more home runs -- about three per season. That brings our grand total of tainted dingers to 98, a number that corresponds nicely with 1998 -- Bonds' last clean year, if "Game of Shadows" has it right. And even if the book is wrong, the photographs don't lie: Bonds today is a swollen sponge, a hulking parody of his lithe former self. Of course he bashed like never before. The laws of physics demand nothing less.
In his book, Adair states that if 140-pound Paul Waner uses a 32-ounce bat to hit a 90 mph fastball 338 feet, 225-pound Mark McGwire can use the same swing and same bat to drive the same pitch nearly 50 feet farther. Hello, andro!
"Bigger is better," Adair said in an e-mail interview. "But Waner was a damn good player."
Six hundred sixteen home runs. Our best guess. A long way from 715, but still an incredible number. Such is the shame in having to wonder: Without steroids, Bonds was a damn good player. With steroids, he's a good player damned.

suave1477
05-22-2006, 10:19 AM
Mr Miracle, I am sorry but thats way too much for me to read lol lol lol:D

mr.miracle
05-22-2006, 10:31 AM
I hear what you are saying, it took me the better part of this morning and then I needed to contact the U. of Pennsylvania's dept of Physics for interpretation. :D

trsent
05-22-2006, 10:32 AM
Federal law is not the point here, did pot make Jenkins a great pitcher?....NO, did gambling make Rose the all time hit king?....NO, did steroids help Bonds hit homers?........still thinking........YES!!!!! Bottom line, whether innocent or not, whether he knew it or not, Steroids gave Bonds an unfair advantage over Ruth or anyone else, and the almost 1000 more at bats didn't hurt!!!!

So hang the black man because he has more at-bats, nice argument.

Oh and by the way, who knows if pot made Fergie a better pitcher or not, you and I are not ones to judge which drugs are acceptable. If that was the case, Bonds' drug was not on the baseball list of illegal drugs while Fergie's drug was against baseball's personal rules. Keith Hernandez said in 1980 when he was hitting .390 that cocaine made the baseball look like a beach ball coming to the plate.

Yankwood
05-22-2006, 11:06 AM
So hang the black man because he has more at-bats, nice argument.

Oh and by the way, who knows if pot made Fergie a better pitcher or not, you and I are not ones to judge which drugs are acceptable. If that was the case, Bonds' drug was not on the baseball list of illegal drugs while Fergie's drug was against baseball's personal rules. Keith Hernandez said in 1980 when he was hitting .390 that cocaine made the baseball look like a beach ball coming to the plate.Joel, you just try way too hard for this guy (Bonds). He ain't worth it. And, um, please don't make this racial. That's way too cheap. And besides didn't George just stick up for Fergie Jenkins? Let's see, what color was he?

Nathan
05-22-2006, 11:15 AM
Joel,

This is into the realm of the absurd now. When turning this political failed last time by, you now attempt to turn it racial. Either way is equally shameful. After all, what race is Hank Aaron? And would people be as repulsed by, say, Ken Griffey Jr chasing down Babe Ruth? Of course not.

To suggest that there's a double standard between Jenkins and Bonds is ludicrous. Consider that the federal government doesn't classify marijuana (Schedule I) and anabolic steroids (Schedule III) as even being close to the same thing; they also don't provide for similar penalties between the two either.

Trying to spout off the "Bud's rules didn't make it illegal" is crazy. If I were to commit a crime while in Canada and was barred from playing in that country, would it be acceptable for me to play against the Blue Jays anyway since MLB's rules don't specify any sort of punishment or even regard that as being criminal?

JETEFAN
05-22-2006, 11:19 AM
[quote=trsent]So hang the black man because he has more at-bats, nice argument.

Oh and by the way, who knows if pot made Fergie a better pitcher or not, you and I are not ones to judge which drugs are acceptable. If that was the case, Bonds' drug was not on the baseball list of illegal drugs while Fergie's drug was against baseball's personal rules. Keith Hernandez said in 1980 when he was hitting .390 that cocaine made the baseball look like a beach ball coming to the plate.[/quote

Now, now, let's not cherry pick!! The specifics of this thread is Bonds and the home run record!! It's not about which drugs are acceptable, it's about which one's help you hit homers. Bonds is the flavor of the month, we can address the other cheaters as broken record's come up. Give the Babe another 1000 at bats and that's another 85-90 homer's... important don't ya think!!:rolleyes: Just another Barry homer diluting agent.... I know, I know, what about Aaron? let's stick to the flavor of the month remember ..Barry "Cheater" Bonds. ......By the way, let's keep it quiet about Kieth Hernandez's cocaine making the baseball look like a beachball story. Barry might be reading!!!! Barry on steroids and watching a beachball comming at him!!!....POW!!..STRAIGHT TO THE MOON Alice!!!:eek:

trsent
05-22-2006, 11:32 AM
Ok, you guys are right...

They should take Barry Bonds to the fireing squad because he may eventually hit more home runs than Babe Ruth and he may have taken a drug that made him stronger.

I have seen the light.

Oh yeah, and George Bush the Current is a great president.

trsent
05-22-2006, 11:36 AM
Oops, I forgot to mention, I believe I should be barred from this forum.

Think about it.

17 years ago I was a cocaine addict. Yes, for about six months of my life I abused coke and it may be why now I support drug users and a policy of "innocent (or unknowing) until proved otherwise, and not just by some jackass's opinion" for game used jersey sellers and OJ Simpson.

If anyone cares, I have been clean and sober for all 17 of those years.

I should have been a Steroid addict.

skipcareyisfat
05-22-2006, 11:43 AM
Let me think...how can I divert attention to an absurd stance on a SPORTS RELATED topic? I know! I'll bring up race and politics and let the suckers bite. Good ole fashioned democratic strategery. BRILLIANT!!!

trsent
05-22-2006, 12:01 PM
Let me think...how can I divert attention to an absurd stance on a SPORTS RELATED topic? I know! I'll bring up race and politics and let the suckers bite. Good ole fashioned democratic strategery. BRILLIANT!!!

So you want me to agree with the views that they should embarrass baseball and put an asterisk by the career home run total of Barry Bonds?

Why don't they have them on the single season ones also.

In fact, break them down:

Babe Ruth 60 (The God of Home Runs)
Roger Maris 61 * (He cheated, because he played more games and his name is not spelled M-A-N-T-L-E)
Mark McGwire 70 ** (He cheated because he may have used a drug that is classified as being worse than cocaine or marijuana by the general public, but it was ok to use it in The World Wrestling Federation until they recently also started testing for it. Oh wait, Hulk Hogan's title reign in WWF and WCW should be struck from the record books also, unless we put an asterisk by it because he may have used a drug that some people feel is worse than cocaine or marijuana)
Barry Bonds 72 *** (He cheated because the general public just doesn't like this guy and he may have used a drug that is classified as being worse than cocaine or marijuana by the general public)

Give it up, nothing will be done except for childish wining by people like those posting above me.

suave1477
05-22-2006, 12:07 PM
If Maris Cheated Then Babe Ruth Cheated Also

skipcareyisfat
05-22-2006, 12:22 PM
I just called my old high school and admitted to cheating on a math test in 11th grade. They agreed to add an asterisk to my transcript. Honesty feels so good.

suave1477
05-22-2006, 12:55 PM
Babe ruth must be the biggest cheater in the game since he was the first one to do it, so lets start an induction in the hall of fame for Ruth as being a cheater

sylbry
05-22-2006, 03:10 PM
I just called my old high school and admitted to cheating on a math test in 11th grade. They agreed to add an asterisk to my transcript. Honesty feels so good.

That's funny. I dare you to call the IRS and tell them you cheated on your taxes. I bet they will give you more than an asterisk.

skipcareyisfat
05-22-2006, 03:26 PM
That's funny. I dare you to call the IRS and tell them you cheated on your taxes. I bet they will give you more than an asterisk.

Easy there! I'm only good for one or two feel-good moments per month. I think I'll ride the high of this one for a while. Besides, I would NEVER knowingly cheat on my taxes. :cool:

Nathan
05-23-2006, 12:13 AM
Joel,

Thanks for sharing your story; here's hoping you remain sober for the next 17 years as well.

Unfortunately, I think you've oversimplified this issue. I don't think for a second that there is anything more than an extreme minority who would want to see Barry Bonds fail simply on the basis of race. Heck, the current record is held by a black man and I don't see anyone grumbling about that. And if this was Ken Griffey Jr chasing down history, I think the general public would be much more openly accepting than has been the case with Bonds.

As far as your facetious attaching of an asterisk to every number higher than Babe Ruth's 60, I don't buy the reasoning for each of those either. Certainly MLB was shortsighted for attempting to take a stand on a nobody like Roger Maris passing a hallowed mark. McGwire's use of andro was well-documented during the chase for 62, and the end result is that andro (legal both by MLB standards and by federal substance control standards at the time) was more heavily tested and has since been outlawed. It has nothing to do with what the general public believes andro causes and a lot to do with medical science has shown. And as for Barry Bonds chasing 71, the fact isn't that the general public has issues with steroids but with the fact that steroids have long been conclusively shown to not only be a performance enhancer but also detrimental to health (and that assumes that steroids was the extent of what he took). The fact is that the federal government has strictly regulated the sale and distribution of steroids for a number of years and they are the ones who classify it on a higher level than marijuana and on the same level as cocaine and other drugs.

As far as the general public wanting to see Bonds fail because he isn't a likeable guy, I think we're getting somewhere there. The simple fact is that Bonds has had, at best, a volatile relationship with fans. Fans vote with their wallets and their hearts. Fans have no problem rooting for an Albert Pujols, a Cal Ripken, or that 25th player on the bench who went out of his way to sign a card for their kid. But fans certainly will take issue with the player who blows off interviews, refers to himself in the third person, or tells those asking for an autograph to "get a (fill in the blank) life" while charging over $1000 for a scribble of ink without an acknowledgement.

The simple fact is that Barry Bonds has alienated so many people over the years that there are very few who want to see him succeed. It has nothing to do with race or ethnicity or socioeconomic status. It has to do with the fact that someone who should be the ultimate ambassador for baseball is such a dislikable guy who has brought the wrath of fans down upon him because of his own doing. That's all there is to it.

suave1477
05-23-2006, 12:42 AM
Nathan I agree with everything you said accept one thing i do take offense too. Roger Maris was far from a nobody and im talking about before he hit 61 home runs. dont get me wrong thats what made him over all famous of course, but he wouldnt have been signed by the Yankees if he was a nobody

Remember during this era it wasnt common place to hit a ton of home runs.

Significant accomplisments before hitting 61 hrs in 1961

1958 28 home runs
1960 39 home runs
2 time all star - 59 and 60
1960 AL MVP
1960 gold glove
1960 most rbi's

I would not say he is a nobody!!!!

mr.miracle
05-23-2006, 10:00 AM
Nathan:

Overall, you hit the nail right on the head. Mr. Suave is right Maris was not a nobody, however he also was not Mickey Mantle. Like I had mentioned in an earlier posting, Not everyone likes the media or certainly agrees with them. However, in the past twenty plus years of Bonds career, to a man every single reporter that I have ever heard interviewed on who was or is the most difficult athlete to deal with said Bonds hands down. This is probably 20 or more reporters both from his days in Pittsburgh and now in San Fran. They all said he is a jerk. All those people can't be wrong. Certainly that is one element of dealing with Barry, but if Bonds claims how unfair the media is, who brought that on themselves? Barry did and has nobody to blame but himself.

Brett

trsent
05-23-2006, 10:12 AM
Thanks for sharing your story; here's hoping you remain sober for the next 17 years as well.

Unfortunately, I think you've oversimplified this issue. I don't think for a second that there is anything more than an extreme minority who would want to see Barry Bonds fail simply on the basis of race. Heck, the current record is held by a black man and I don't see anyone grumbling about that. And if this was Ken Griffey Jr chasing down history, I think the general public would be much more openly accepting than has been the case with Bonds.

As far as your facetious attaching of an asterisk to every number higher than Babe Ruth's 60, I don't buy the reasoning for each of those either. Certainly MLB was shortsighted for attempting to take a stand on a nobody like Roger Maris passing a hallowed mark. McGwire's use of andro was well-documented during the chase for 62, and the end result is that andro (legal both by MLB standards and by federal substance control standards at the time) was more heavily tested and has since been outlawed. It has nothing to do with what the general public believes andro causes and a lot to do with medical science has shown. And as for Barry Bonds chasing 71, the fact isn't that the general public has issues with steroids but with the fact that steroids have long been conclusively shown to not only be a performance enhancer but also detrimental to health (and that assumes that steroids was the extent of what he took). The fact is that the federal government has strictly regulated the sale and distribution of steroids for a number of years and they are the ones who classify it on a higher level than marijuana and on the same level as cocaine and other drugs.

As far as the general public wanting to see Bonds fail because he isn't a likeable guy, I think we're getting somewhere there. The simple fact is that Bonds has had, at best, a volatile relationship with fans. Fans vote with their wallets and their hearts. Fans have no problem rooting for an Albert Pujols, a Cal Ripken, or that 25th player on the bench who went out of his way to sign a card for their kid. But fans certainly will take issue with the player who blows off interviews, refers to himself in the third person, or tells those asking for an autograph to "get a (fill in the blank) life" while charging over $1000 for a scribble of ink without an acknowledgement.

The simple fact is that Barry Bonds has alienated so many people over the years that there are very few who want to see him succeed. It has nothing to do with race or ethnicity or socioeconomic status. It has to do with the fact that someone who should be the ultimate ambassador for baseball is such a dislikable guy who has brought the wrath of fans down upon him because of his own doing. That's all there is to it.

Great post as it gives valid points without putting down the other side in a spiteful method.

In the meantime, don't forget that when Henry Aaron broke Babe Ruth's mark he received more mail than anyone could imagine. The estimates were that about a third of the mail he received was hate mail because a black man broke the record of The Babe.

Barry Bonds has not gone out of his way like the great Cal Ripken, Jr. did to be a fan favorite, and that is too bad, but his numbers do speak for them self.

By the way, the way Major League Baseball embarrassed Roger Maris' achievement is one of the darkest spots of MLB history because they destroyed the man. I lost my copy, but Rick Telander wrote a great article in Sports Illustrated about 20 years ago titled: "The Record That Almost Broke Him" about Baseball spite towards Roger Maris for just doing his job.

sylbry
05-23-2006, 01:31 PM
By the way, the way Major League Baseball embarrassed Roger Maris' achievement is one of the darkest spots of MLB history because they destroyed the man. I lost my copy, but Rick Telander wrote a great article in Sports Illustrated about 20 years ago titled: "The Record That Almost Broke Him" about Baseball spite towards Roger Maris for just doing his job.

The movie 61* gives you a sense on what Maris went through that year.

suave1477
05-23-2006, 03:55 PM
Not only does it give you a sense of what he went through I think that has to be one of the best, well put together, well documented movies of that era.

I give 2 thumbs up and a toe to Billy Crystal for that movie it captured the essnce of the Yankees, Mantle, Maris, and New York of that time period. Me being from New York it made me actually take a step back.

Even the cast was incredible look a likes Barry Pepper and Thomas Jane were dead on hits for Maris and Mantle especially the southern twang and charisma he picked up to play the role of Mantle


If you havent seen this movie yet I strongly urge you to go and see it before uttering another word of Maris



AND NO IM NOT THE PRMOTER FOR THE MOVIE LOL LOL:D :D

allstarsplus
05-23-2006, 03:56 PM
The movie 61* gives you a sense on what Maris went through that year.

Another great movie to watch about HRs and life is the documentary that was done on the life of Hank Greenberg. In 1938, Greenberg hit 58 Home Runs playing for the Detroit Tigers and he set the record for a right handed batter. He fell of course 2 short of Babe Ruth's 60. Greenberg also never achieved the 500 HR plateau as he missed almost 4 full seasons serving in World War II.

You can only imagine what Greenberg must have gone through in 1938. His right-handed HR record was of course broken by McGwire and Sosa in 1998.

Nathan
05-23-2006, 08:50 PM
I just need to clarify here; I don't mean that Roger Maris was a complete nobody. He was certainly an above-average player during his career but fell short of the big stars of his era. But very few thought that he would be the one to launch an assault on 60, particularly with big hitters like Mickey Mantle around. Maris, going into 1961, was best known for his all-time high school record of four kickoff returns for a touchdown in a game. But for baseball, Maris not only wasn't a first-ballot HOFer, he still isn't in.

I do like the fact that Joel brought up Hank Aaron receiving hate mail, including that which the FBI considered to be "credible" death threats. And Hank Greenberg in 1938 was no exception, particularly for being a Jewish ballplayer in an era in which anti-Semitism was more widespread and more overt. What makes those two chapters particularly shameful is that neither one of those guys did anything that would make them to be the object of such hatred.

Yankwood
05-23-2006, 09:45 PM
Nathan, your point is well taken. I understood what you meant.

trsent
05-24-2006, 01:27 PM
I do like the fact that Joel brought up Hank Aaron receiving hate mail, including that which the FBI considered to be "credible" death threats. And Hank Greenberg in 1938 was no exception, particularly for being a Jewish ballplayer in an era in which anti-Semitism was more widespread and more overt. What makes those two chapters particularly shameful is that neither one of those guys did anything that would make them to be the object of such hatred.

Just being born with a different skin color or worshiping a God that others don't believe in has often been an issue that this country should look at itself with shame over.

They didn't know it but when they murdered Martin Luther King they made sure his life and message would be spread forever. Too bad a large portion of the public still doesn't get it.