Manny and Big Popout Tested Positive in 2003

[Mauer7]

According to ESPN.

[jwasserman]

The NY TImes broke the story
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sports/baseball/31doping.html?_r=1&hp

Release the damn list already! Dragging superstars out one at a time is not doing anybody a bit of good

According to ESPN.

[Bondsgloves]

Is anyone really surprised! It was a given... Its funny Big Popout said players should be suspended for a year if caught and he was surprised Manny tested positive.

[yanks12025]

I glad those two names came out because most red sox fans thought their teams were clean. They called out the yankees with Jason and A-rod even though they did not take them while in a Yankee uniform. So it will finally shut them up.

[yanks12025]

This also shows how good the Mitchell Report was(no red sox players).

[suicide_squeeze]

Is anyone really surprised! It was a given... Its funny Big Popout said players should be suspended for a year if caught and he was surprised Manny tested positive.


He also stated that any player caught should have any records wiped from the books.

So......where do we start......... with big poo-pi?

He was nothing but a punch-n-Judy hitter when he was a Twin......then miraculously he becomes a 30-40 home run a year hitter with Boston(check his career yearly stats.....it's a joke).

You guys all know what this means, right?

The curse of the Bambino really lives on.....because if take the players who juiced like crazy out of the picture, Boston doesn't win the 2004 or 2007 World Series.

And the biggest juicer of them all, besides Manny, was Jason Veritek.

What a pathetic time in the history of the game. RELEASE the 104 names, get it over with, and let baseball begin healing from this 2-decade long raping they endured.

Quite frankly, small-ball is more exciting anyways. And when the big bomb home run DOES happen, it's more exciting, because they won't be happening every third batter now that testing is part of the program.

[3arod13]

Release the damn list already! Dragging superstars out one at a time is not doing anybody a bit of good

We agree!

[frikativ54]

I am glad that these results are coming out, and that players' reputations are being tarnished. Nothing makes me more angry than athletes who think that they are not amenable to societal standards of fairness, ethics, and decency.

I would be thrilled if the 2003 list was made public, because it concerns the breaking of federal law. The MLB's standards of confidentiality do not supersede federal law, and I think it is pretentious to assume otherwise.

[yanks12025]

Did anyone see Peter Gammons on ESPN, it looked like he was going to cry.

[suicide_squeeze]

I am glad that these results are coming out, and that players' reputations are being tarnished. Nothing makes me more angry than athletes who think that they are not amenable to societal standards of fairness, ethics, and decency.

I would be thrilled if the 2003 list was made public, because it concerns the breaking of federal law. The MLB's standards of confidentiality do not supersede federal law, and I think it is pretentious to assume otherwise.

Well said, and I couldn't agree with you more on all counts.

[suicide_squeeze]

Did anyone see Peter Gammons on ESPN, it looked like he was going to cry.

You know, I really like Peter Gammons, but he is just a Boston Red Sox spokesperson wrapped up in a baseball guy suit. I'm sure it pains him deep that his beloveth Red Sox are permanently tarnished.....but they are.

It's high time everyone over on that East Coast feels the seering pain of reality along with the rest of the Baseball World.

You know, it's funny......there have been at least three Boston Red Sox 2004 and 2007 championship rings that have sold recently in major auctions.....all of them reaching into the $30,000+ price ranges.

I wonder if the lucky winners of those rings feel like they got their monies worth now? They can polish those gold and diamonds chunks 'til hell frezith over.......but the dang things will ALWAYS be tarnished.......

[sylbry]

I will be curious to see how the HOF votes goes for Manny. McGwire gets no love and he never tested positive. Manny has now been busted TWICE.

[3arod13]

I will be curious to see how the HOF votes goes for Manny. McGwire gets no love and he never tested positive. Manny has now been busted TWICE.

To me, Manny is the worst of all. Used/Tested positive in 2003, and then has the nerve to continue using!

Why isn't the media eating him alive?

Regards, Tony

[David]

The interesting thing is that, while the Yankees and Red Sox success has been tainted retroactively in the eyes of many, any Dodgers success into the future will be similarly tainted as long as Manny is on the roster. It doesn't help the Dodgers cause that they wildly cheer a known PED user, when just a couple of years ago they vociferly booed Barry Bonds whenever he came to town.

[Bondsgloves]

I hate to say it, but playing field is level. They are all using, not one team is completely clean. You can't really say that the championships are tarnished when every other team is using the same shit. The Yankees, Red Sox, White Sox, etc.. all have users.

They all say they have never used... and when they get caught there is denial,no response, I used it once, or I used for a short period of time. The sad fact is if there name is not on the list, it doesn't mean they didn't use... I personally look at the game and assume they are all using and really don't care anymore.

[David]

Just as with the NCAA, penalizing the team and organization in some shape or form wold help prevent PED use. If championships are tainted or games with cheating players nullified, that would mean it would be in the interest of the team and teammates to not have teammates using PEDs. In the NCAA, if five players on the football team were ineligible or cheated, the wins where players are retroactively scrubbed from the book, converance championship banners taken down. No one on the team will be happy about this to the point that teammates and owners will do what the can to prevent PED users on the team.

As it is today, the Dodgers organization is happy to the gills to promote, fork over millions advertise, sell tickest and accept winds and trophies for a PED user. This is horrible thing if your concern is disuading players and young fans from using PEDs. And the Dodgers officially say they against PED use by players ?!?!? Sometimes actions speak louder than words.

As such, I don't see fan tainting of World Series championships as a bad thing. In fact, I think it's great if the concern is with eliminating PED use. There should be a taint and a shame to teams that use PED users.

[suicide_squeeze]

I will be curious to see how the HOF votes goes for Manny. McGwire gets no love and he never tested positive. Manny has now been busted TWICE.


I think it's obvious now to all that Manny Ramirez has cheated almost his entire career.

[suicide_squeeze]

The interesting thing is that, while the Yankees and Red Sox success has been tainted retroactively in the eyes of many, any Dodgers success into the future will be similarly tainted as long as Manny is on the roster. It doesn't help the Dodgers cause that they wildly cheer a known PED user, when just a couple of years ago they vociferly booed Barry Bonds whenever he came to town.

I'm with you David.....

I wish the Dodgers would seek legal action to try and discredit their contract with Manny, and I'd like to see him get booted off the team.

Then the Dodgers could get a pitcher and give the Phillies a run for their money.......the Dodgers don't need him.

[3arod13]

With all these reports of positive users in 2003, has anyone seen any official documentation (proof) to back it up? Maybe I missed it.

[Jags Fan Dan]

I am glad that these results are coming out, and that players' reputations are being tarnished. Nothing makes me more angry than athletes who think that they are not amenable to societal standards of fairness, ethics, and decency.

I would be thrilled if the 2003 list was made public, because it concerns the breaking of federal law. The MLB's standards of confidentiality do not supersede federal law, and I think it is pretentious to assume otherwise.
I concur wholeheartedly with these pontifications.

[3arod13]

How many of you believe the number is limited to 104? Meaning, do you believe there were others?

[Jags Fan Dan]

How many of you believe the number is limited to 104? Meaning, do you believe there were others?
Others who tested positive or others that were using? Obviously, there were more using than 104, I have to believe. As for others who tested positive, the world may never know.:confused:

[cohibasmoker]

With all these reports of positive users in 2003, has anyone seen any official documentation (proof) to back it up? Maybe I missed it.

Bingo - down the road, that will be the argument of the players on the list - "Where's the Proof"? Well, guess what, who was responsible for preserving the "Chain of Evidence"? You betcha - our pal, the Commissioner of Baseball.


Jim

[suicide_squeeze]

Bingo - down the road, that will be the argument of the players on the list - "Where's the Proof"? Well, guess what, who was responsible for preserving the "Chain of Evidence"? You betcha - our pal, the Commissioner of Baseball.


Jim


Jim,

If these arrogant overpaid a-"(place holes between these quotes)" want to take that approach, then they are sealing their own fait.

At this point, I don't believe fans have any remaining patience or acceptance of the steroid issue. It's old, no one likes a cheater, and at this point if one surfaces, it's public stoning to death.

We need to "release the beast"......the 104 list.......and let the healing begin already. Did you guys see Ozzie Guillen's schmeal on it on Sports Center last night? He's an insider......a baseball guy......and he said it about as clearly as it could be said: Release the list and lets move on!

David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez have had, essentially, worthless careers. The reason is because everything they accomplished in it is now tarnished to the point of no return. NO ONE will ever accept their two World Championships as worthy. And if you guys think it started and stopped with them, I got news for you......look into Jason Varitek's life, and let's not let Mr. Wonderful off the hook either, Curt Schilling. I'd bet the ranch he cheated.....but privately (meaning he let noone else know about it).

Lastly, there is no QUESTION there were many many more than just the 104 names that surfaced. I'll hazzard a guess that it's closer to what that living breathing piece of Cuban human waste Jose Canseco said in the first place......probably 80% of the players have "used" at one point or another before and/or during their career.

Selig has a wonderful legacy to take with his Geek self when he leaves the game.......

[pags13]

ROID SOX.....World Champs 2004/2007

[nationals2k9]

David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez have had, essentially, worthless careers.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[David]

If the players were told they tested positive, there's nothing stopping the players from revealing the names on the list. Players' complaints about the "outside drip, drip of names" would thus be pretty dubious. I see Nomar Garciaparra is complaining about this slow release of names. Makes you wonder if he knows his 2003 test result. He's also saying how the list might not even be legitimate, which falls under the category "I think he doth protest too much."

[David]

I might be jaded, but some might see Garciaparra's theories about the illegitimacy the list as laying down some base talking points for when the full list is revealed.

One of his "ideas" was that some players didn't take the test and told the Union to mark them down as positive. These "phantom positives" were from players who wanted future testing so wanted enough positive to invoke it. Garciaparra said that the list thus has numerous positive tests from players who not only didn't use PEDs but never took the test. It was soon after revealed that players were only listed as positive after the submitted a urine simple that failed. But it was a nice try (not quite), Nomar.

[gamer35]

Jim,

If these arrogant overpaid a-"(place holes between these quotes)" want to take that approach, then they are sealing their own fait.

At this point, I don't believe fans have any remaining patience or acceptance of the steroid issue. It's old, no one likes a cheater, and at this point if one surfaces, it's public stoning to death.

We need to "release the beast"......the 104 list.......and let the healing begin already. Did you guys see Ozzie Guillen's schmeal on it on Sports Center last night? He's an insider......a baseball guy......and he said it about as clearly as it could be said: Release the list and lets move on!

David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez have had, essentially, worthless careers. The reason is because everything they accomplished in it is now tarnished to the point of no return. NO ONE will ever accept their two World Championships as worthy. And if you guys think it started and stopped with them, I got news for you......look into Jason Varitek's life, and let's not let Mr. Wonderful off the hook either, Curt Schilling. I'd bet the ranch he cheated.....but privately (meaning he let noone else know about it).

Lastly, there is no QUESTION there were many many more than just the 104 names that surfaced. I'll hazzard a guess that it's closer to what that living breathing piece of Cuban human waste Jose Canseco said in the first place......probably 80% of the players have "used" at one point or another before and/or during their career.

Selig has a wonderful legacy to take with his Geek self when he leaves the game.......

If you think Manny has had a worthless career, then you have some worthless home run balls I wouldnt mind taking off your hands.

[suicide_squeeze]

If you think Manny has had a worthless career, then you have some worthless home run balls I wouldnt mind taking off your hands.

;)

Here's to hoping for the best. I paid a TON for his 521st.....and quite a bit for #'s 520 and 527.

Just being frank and honest, I just can't stand it that these pieces of character-less integrity-void cretins have destroyed the game so thoroughly. Just makes me sick with anger.

After the spineless ameoba named Selig leaves commissionership, someone with roots to Landis (you know....someone who actually has a set) needs to be seated and make a decision to asterisk anyone of the players who were found, beyond reasonable doubt, to have participated in taking PED's. Then it just won't matter if one or two slip through the cracks into the Hall......the ones who get busted will eventually roll over, and everyone who was ANYONE in the group (and era) of cheaters will be exposed. Let's get there already so we can get back to the game and enjoy if like the good old days.

[suicide_squeeze]

I might be jaded, but some might see Garciaparra's theories about the illegitimacy the list as laying down some base talking points for when the full list is revealed.

One of his "ideas" was that some players didn't take the test and told the Union to mark them down as positive. These "phantom positives" were from players who wanted future testing so wanted enough positive to invoke it. Garciaparra said that the list thus has numerous positive tests from players who not only didn't use PEDs but never took the test. It was soon after revealed that players were only listed as positive after the submitted a urine simple that failed. But it was a nice try (not quite), Nomar.


You don't think Nomar's exploding groin and hamstrings have anything to do with possibly abusing steroids over the years...........do you!??? :rolleyes:

[yanks12025]

What do you guys think of what David Ortiz had to say the other day. I think he's a huge fraud and wont be a man and say that he used. The stats prove it. I also like how the union supported Ortiz 100% but with the other players who's names came out could care less, and once again baseball tonight defends their believed red sox players 100%.

[BrewCrewSackers]

I can't wait till Pujols gets named. Maybe the New York Times will throw that one out when they need a profit boost.

[gameused]

I can't wait till Pujols gets named. Maybe the New York Times will throw that one out when they need a profit boost.

I find that comment really immature, but since it's coming from a Brewers fan I can understand how you try to ease the pain of losing that NL Central division every year. Do us all a favor and either grow up or shut up!!