Fred Lynn Orioles - Photo Match?

[beantown]

I've been trying to photo match my newly accquired Fred Lynn Orioles Gamer from 1985...tough to find good photos of Fred from his Orioles days! I found this one in a Orioles yearbook...is this a photo match???

Also note the arch on the lower part of the nameplate...starts low under the "L" and more material appears under the two "N's"...

[momen55]

not the same.

[beantown]

not the same.


Wow, very insightful response....

[spartakid]

Doesn't appear to be amtch, the only thread i can really see in the pic is halfway up thr "Y" and yours doesn't have it. Ricardo

[otismalibu]

Who knows if that's a thread or a print flaw.

It's possible, but you'd need a better shot of the plate. The way the two layers of twill don't run parallel on the bottoms of the Ns would be something to compare if you had a better, straight on shot. The part of the N you circled looks like it could be, but you'd need a better photo.

And, technically, wouldn't you need to compare the numbers too? I'm not a baseball guy...would there be a chance that a plate would be used on 2 jerseys?

[beantown]

Who knows if that's a thread or a print flaw.

It's possible, but you'd need a better shot of the plate. The way the two layers of twill don't run parallel on the bottoms of the Ns would be something to compare if you had a better, straight on shot. The part of the N you circled looks like it could be, but you'd need a better photo.

And, technically, wouldn't you need to compare the numbers too? I'm not a baseball guy...would there be a chance that a plate would be used on 2 jerseys?


Greg,

Hello...I agree that another shot of the nameplate would be helpful, but I can't seem to find any...I know the angle is off, but I feel that the "N" is a match.

I agree about the #'s too, but unfortunatley this photo doesn't show the rear #'s well enough....I'm not sure what you mean when you say there's a chance the plate would be used on two different jerseys?

[otismalibu]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say there's a chance the plate would be used on two different jerseys?

I simply meant that I suppose it's not entirely impossible that a nameplate could be used on 2 jerseys. So even if you had a match on the nameplate, you'd still need to match the actual jersey. But maybe that's highly unlikely...not a baseball jersey guy. :)

[Vintagedeputy]

Wow, very insightful response....

You asked one question, he gave you a response.....why the sarcasm?

[beantown]

You asked one question, he gave you a response.....why the sarcasm?

How about an articulate response on why he thought it wasn't a match...

[Vintagedeputy]

How about an articulate response on why he thought it wasn't a match...

In looking at the pics, I can't see why you'd need anything further than what he gave you.

There is nothing even remotely close in linking those 2 pics to call it a match. The circles you drew show nothing specific nor do they match anything on the jersey in question, aside from a very basic style match.

[beantown]

In looking at the pics, I can't see why you'd need anything further than what he gave you.

There is nothing even remotely close in linking those 2 pics to call it a match. The circles you drew show nothing specific nor do they match anything on the jersey in question, aside from a very basic style match.

For you to say that they're "not remotely close" is absolutely ridiculous...you have zero credibility with that statement…

[mbenga28]

I agree, the distance from the bottom of the nameplate to the top of the numbering looks more in your jersey than the photo.

[mbenga28]

also the "Y" in the photo looks much thicker than that on your jersey, do you thinkg?

[Vintagedeputy]

For you to say that they're "not remotely close" is absolutely ridiculous...you have zero credibility with that statement…

Look, let me break my response down for you, since you seem to have taken umbrage at it.

When people post a possible photo match, its because there are things in common between the 2 examples that are so close that a reasonable person will sit and examine the 2 to either further prove or disprove the possible relationship.

Your 2 photos show absolutely nothing past a style match. Your drawn circles match up to nothing that the reader could remotely even consider to be a photo match. That is why momen looked and replied not a match - because the response didn't need to progress further than that. There is nothing even remotely close that would identify your jersey as the one in the photo. The circles you drew correspond to nothing that can be seen in the photo, so at best all you have is a style match.

[beantown]

When people post a possible photo match, its because there are things in common between the 2 examples that are so close that a reasonable person will sit and examine the 2 to either further prove or disprove the possible relationship.

There is nothing in common with the jersey and the photo I posted...are you kidding me?



Your 2 photos show absolutely nothing past a style match. Your drawn circles match up to nothing that the reader could remotely even consider to be a photo match.

You'll say I have a "style match" but the photo evidence is so conclusive in your mind that you'll say I don't have a "photo match"...how can you definitvley make that statment???

With the poor clarity/angle of the photo, I don't think it can be proven either way.


You don't think there is a striking similarity between the first "N's" in the nameplate and the uniqueness of the angle in the bottom portion of that “N”?



Thre is nothing even remotely close that would identify your jersey as the one in the photo. The circles you drew correspond to nothing that can be seen in the photo, so at best all you have is a style match.

How can you say there is “nothing remotely” close? Look at the stitching on the orange twill...it appears to stop and start in the same locations...that’s not remotely close?

Your user is "Vintage Deputy"...if you work in law enforcement, I hope you have a desk job or you're retired...I wouldn't want you conducting investigations or testifying in court being that narrow minded....:cool:

[flaco1801]

to me the only thing that matches is the spelling... bet u could find a photo match to a snowflake? just being honest here...

[flaco1801]

looking again it seems the yearbook photo is a home and yours is a road grey?

[Rob L]

Umm, Beantown, why not do a search on the forum and look up how style match and photo match are defined. There is nothing definitive to say this is a photo match. The style is similar, but a photo match is irrefutable which this is not.

As an example, I own two Troy Percival road jerseys from 2005 when he was on the Tigers. He probably didn't have any more than that as we went on the DL in July 2005 for the rest of the year. I have numerous photos of him wearing the Road jerseys. Is he wearing one (or both) of these jerseys in the various photos? More than likely. Can I say they are photomatched? No way. Nothing is discernable which proves that it is one jersey or the other in the photos. Style match - definitely.

[Robster744]

It looks obvious to me. Not a photomatch.

[beantown]

I never said this was a photomatch!!!

I am simply refuting vintagedeputies claim that he says its absolutley not a match...

[beantown]

looking again it seems the yearbook photo is a home and yours is a road grey?


to me the only thing that matches is the spelling... bet u could find a photo match to a snowflake? just being honest here...

This is why this forum is not what it use to be...posts like this are as useless as the individual who posted them.....

[beantown]

It looks obvious to me. Not a photomatch.


Your going to point to the material nameplate material being bunched up as not being a photo match? Lynn is swinging a bat...has his whole body in motion...don't you think that is going to cause the material to be bunched up in certain places???

[3arod13]

For me, a photomatch is when, without question, you can see specific (exact) things (markings, stains, etc.) that match. When you have to look really hard and ask yourself "does that look like this? Could it be?" then most likely it's not.

A photomatch has to be, without question, a match. I've seen some posted where there was no doubt...matched exactly. And I've seen some where many stated, "Looks good to me...or...I think it's close."

My opinion in this case, there's just not enough there to say for sure it's a photomatch, based on this photo.

Regards,

Tony

[hiramman]

From my point of view this thread has run its course. The original photo from the yearbook is similar, but just not clear enough to use to photo-match by.

We all want to find photo-matches for our items, but if you keep beating the same drum and argueing with each person that replies, then you're not going to be able to get anyone's help finding additional photo help or positive reponses to any new photos you might find.

People are not going to go out of their way to take their own time to look through old photos, yearbooks, magazines for you, if you don't act like you appreciate anyone's help or comments.

It truly amazes me how people on GUU will spend their own personal time trying to find a photo-match among their own resources for other collectors that they many times do not even know. That's what's great about this site. Collectors helping other collectors.

If you don't agree with other's comments, then move on to the next comment. There are positives & negatives in most of life's situations, you just need to focus on the positive, play nice and others will continue to want to play ball with you. Otherwise get mad & defensive and take your ball home with you and don't play anymore.

[3arod13]

From my point of view this thread has run its course. The original photo from the yearbook is similar, but just not clear enough to use to photo-match by.

We all want to find photo-matches for our items, but if you keep beating the same drum and argueing with each person that replies, then you're not going to be able to get anyone's help finding additional photo help or positive reponses to any new photos you might find.

People are not going to go out of their way to take their own time to look through old photos, yearbooks, magazines for you, if you don't act like you appreciate anyone's help or comments.

It truly amazes me how people on GUU will spend their own personal time trying to find a photo-match among their own resources for other collectors that they many times do not even know. That's what's great about this site. Collectors helping other collectors.

If you don't agree with other's comments, then move on to the next comment. There are positives & negatives in most of life's situations, you just need to focus on the positive, play nice and others will continue to want to play ball with you. Otherwise get mad & defensive and take your ball home with you and don't play anymore.

Well said!

[joelsabi]

looking again it seems the yearbook photo is a home and yours is a road grey?

thats was the first thing i saw like momen. no match.

[beantown]

thats was the first thing i saw like momen. no match.

Let me reiterate....This is why this forum is not what it use to be...posts like this are as useless as the individual who posted them.....

[mwbosoxfan]

Who knows if that's a thread or a print flaw.

It's possible, but you'd need a better shot of the plate. The way the two layers of twill don't run parallel on the bottoms of the Ns would be something to compare if you had a better, straight on shot. The part of the N you circled looks like it could be, but you'd need a better photo.



It appears from looking at the two layers of twill on the N's that they might be a closer match if the two were reversed. The amount of black showing over top specifically on the far right or second N is far greater in the 1985 photo than in jersey pic.

As stated before, for an item to be considered photo matched, there needs to be indisputable characteristics or multiple features that would be nearly impossible to replicate in a certain pattern. I personally don't see any characteristics that suggest the possibility. Actually, I see more patterns that don't seem to match, understanding that the pics are from different angles and while being worn and unworn. Unfortunately, it also appears that no one else sees any discernable traits that would suggest the contrary.

Beantown, reading through the threads, I think the forum members just responded to the question you asked. The more people that respond would tend to give you a better concensus of opinion, whether they give a detailed answer or not. I think everyone was being sincere and honest. Hope you find another picture that matches up.

[Vintagedeputy]

Your user is "Vintage Deputy"...if you work in law enforcement, I hope you have a desk job or you're retired...I wouldn't want you conducting investigations or testifying in court being that narrow minded....:cool:






Personal attacks on members only detract from the thread and make people want to help you less. They are uncalled for. If you don't like the answers presented, or the current state of where this forum is at, then please take your non-photo matched jersey and fuzzy yearbook picture and go home. Several veteran members have offered their opinions. You can wish and hope all you want for a photo match, but sorry Charlie it ain't there.

[Mauer7]

I think he took his jersey and went home. :D

[Vintagedeputy]

I think he took his jersey and went home. :D

So did the Red Sox today!

[beantown]

Personal attacks on members only detract from the thread and make people want to help you less. They are uncalled for. If you don't like the answers presented, or the current state of where this forum is at, then please take your non-photo matched jersey and fuzzy yearbook picture and go home. Several veteran members have offered their opinions. You can wish and hope all you want for a photo match, but sorry Charlie it ain't there.


You're a complete joke...you still haven't addressed my follow up comments...cloud the issue with telling me to take my jersey and go home...you're a real class act and you offer nothing to this forum...good riddance to you Mauer 7 for your useless comments!

[Vintagedeputy]

You're a complete joke...you still haven't addressed my follow up comments...cloud the issue with telling me to take my jersey and go home...you're a real class act and you offer nothing to this forum...good riddance to you Mauer 7 for your useless comments!

Your comments need no follow up on my part since your remarks were infammatory and incendiary in nature. They serve no purpose but to incite the members here into some tit for tat 5th grade argument about your jersey.

The jersey is not a photo match, it will never be a photo match based on the photos provided, which are shaky at best. Live with it, and drive on but leave the personal attacks at the door as they serve no purpose.

[Mauer7]

Good Riddance? I'm not going anywhere.

[beantown]

Your comments need no follow up on my part since your remarks were infammatory and incendiary in nature. They serve no purpose but to incite the members here into some tit for tat 5th grade argument about your jersey.

The jersey is not a photo match, it will never be a photo match based on the photos provided, which are shaky at best. Live with it, and drive on but leave the personal attacks at the door as they serve no purpose.

Now you change your tone...priceless!

I would love to know how you can DEFINITIVELY say it’s not a photo match. If the photo isn’t good enough to prove that it is, than it isn't good enough to prove that it isn't....can you comprehend that?

[Mauer7]

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[ksfarmboy]

Beantown, does this make the 2nd 1985 Lynn home jersey for you? I don't know about the back but here's a picture of the front of a home Lynn 85 jersey.

Clint

[beantown]

Not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.not A Match.


That's mature...you bring alot to this forum...what a joke!

[beantown]

Good Riddance? I'm not going anywhere.


Why would you...I'm sure you have nothing else to do, but type useless responses to other individuals posts...

[both-teams-played-hard]

It may very well be the same jersey, but it is not a photo-match, by definition. Find some distinguishable marks or loose threads on your jersey, then search for a photo with the same distinguishable marks.

[beantown]

Beantown, does this make the 2nd 1985 Lynn home jersey for you? I don't know about the back but here's a picture of the front of a home Lynn 85 jersey.

Clint


Clint,

Thanks for adding something to this post....unfortunatley, the cover of this SI doesn't give enought clarity to do any matching...I do have two Lynn 85 jerseys...

[beantown]

It may very well be the same jersey, but it is not a photo-match, by definition. Find some distinguishable marks or loose threads on your jersey, then search for a photo with the same distinguishable marks.

btph...thank you as well for offering something to this post and I agree with you...I wish I could find better photos of Lynn from '85, but I can't...

[ksfarmboy]

Beantown, that's cool you have 2. I collect Orioles jersey and those are nice looking jerseys. You might try ebay and buy an 86 media guide and yearbook of the Orioles. They might have a picture of Lynn in his home jersey. I heard SI also sells it's photos. You might find out if they have any more pictures from that 85 shoot. Good luck.

Clint

[beantown]

Beantown, that's cool you have 2. I collect Orioles jersey and those are nice looking jerseys. You might try ebay and buy an 86 media guide and yearbook of the Orioles. They might have a picture of Lynn in his home jersey. I heard SI also sells it's photos. You might find out if they have any more pictures from that 85 shoot. Good luck.

Clint


Clint,

Thanks...this Lynn photo actually appears from an '86 media guide or yearbook...I have both and the photos in each don't offer much. I tried Getty and some of the other photo websites...nothing! I'll keep searching for a better one...

[Vintagedeputy]

Now you change your tone...priceless!

I would love to know how you can DEFINITIVELY say it’s not a photo match. If the photo isn’t good enough to prove that it is, than it isn't good enough to prove that it isn't....can you comprehend that?

Look, we all understand your frustration today. Its difficult having a screen name like "Beantown" and trying to maintain decorum while your baseball team just crapped its' pants for the past 3 games and your football team is barely keeping its head above water. We're all sports fans. We understand how the inability of your favorite teams to get the job done has caused you some angst.

Its ok, we forgive you. If we say that your jersey is a dead on photo match, will it make you feel better?

[beantown]

Look, we all understand your frustration today. Its difficult having a screen name like "Beantown" and trying to maintain decorum while your baseball team just crapped its' pants for the past 3 games and your football team is barely keeping its head above water. We're all sports fans. We understand how the inability of your favorite teams to get the job done has caused you some angst.

Its ok, we forgive you. If we say that your jersey is a dead on photo match, will it make you feel better?


You should be in politics...you love to cloud the issue at hand! You make a claim you can't substantiate...which leads you to be simply pathetic and another individual who brings nothing to this forum!

[mwbosoxfan]

You should be in politics...you love to cloud the issue at hand! You make a claim you can't substantiate...which leads you to be simply pathetic and another individual who brings nothing to this forum!


Beantown, What claim did Vintage make that he can't substantiate? I don't believe I read anywhere that anyone stated that the jerseys in the pictures are not the same jersey. By common definition of photo match, it's just a unanimous opinion by all the forum members who posted responses that you do not have a photo matched item. Given the photo you have, even if they are the same jersey, it still isn't a photo match.

[Vintagedeputy]

You should be in politics...you love to cloud the issue at hand! You make a claim you can't substantiate...which leads you to be simply pathetic and another individual who brings nothing to this forum!


Are personal attacks the best that you can muster up in defense of your non-photo matched jersey?

[Vintagedeputy]

Beantown, What claim did Vintage make that he can't substantiate? I don't believe I read anywhere that anyone stated that the jerseys in the pictures are not the same jersey. By common definition of photo match, it's just a unanimous opinion by all the forum members who posted responses that you do not have a photo matched item. Given the photo you have, even if they are the same jersey, it still isn't a photo match.

Thank you mwbosoxfan. The point I have been trying to make all along is that there is no photo match shown, just like momen, et al have said - its not a match and we see nothing that would prove a match.

Sadly, Beantown seems to be upset about that and has taken this to a level of personal attacks.....

[beantown]

Are personal attacks the best that you can muster up in defense of your non-photo matched jersey?

Keep avoiding issue...that seems to be what you do best....you're laughable and should be banned from posting as you offer NOTHING!

[beantown]

Thank you mwbosoxfan. The point I have been trying to make all along is that there is no photo match shown, just like momen, et al have said - its not a match and we see nothing that would prove a match.

Sadly, Beantown seems to be upset about that and has taken this to a level of personal attacks.....

Did I say there was a photomatch? NO!!! I said if I can't prove that it is one, than you can't prove that it isn't one....why can't you get that?

[Vintagedeputy]

Keep avoiding issue...that seems to be what you do best....you're laughable and should be banned from posting as you offer NOTHING!


Again, another personal attack. Why can't you just accept the fact that we've offered the opinion you asked for and you are just unwilling to accept that opinion?

[beantown]

Again, another personal attack. Why can't you just accept the fact that we've offered the opinion you asked for and you are just unwilling to accept that opinion?

You just don't get it....but as an ignorant as you are, I shouldn't be suprised...

[Vintagedeputy]

You just don't get it....but as an ignorant as you are, I shouldn't be suprised...

Again, another personal attack. Do you enjoy belittling others who offer the help that you asked for? Its not a very nice way to go about things.

[5kRunner]

Did I say there was a photomatch? NO!!! I said if I can't prove that it is one, than you can't prove that it isn't one....why can't you get that?

Unfortunately, it does. There is no gray area. Either it is, or it isn't.

[beantown]

Unfortunately, it does. There is no gray area. Either it is, or it isn't.


There is a gray area...the photo doesn't answer the question either way.....

[beantown]

Again, another personal attack. Do you enjoy belittling others who offer the help that you asked for? Its not a very nice way to go about things.


If you want' to offer the bait, I'll take it everytime...you don't think I see what you're trying to do? Shouldn't have removed your "NY" avatar...that spoke volumes about you....

[Vintagedeputy]

If you want' to offer the bait, I'll take it everytime...you don't think I see what you're trying to do? Shouldn't have removed your "NY" avatar...that spoke volumes about you....

um, removed my NY avatar?

<<<<<<<<<<< (pssst, its still there, it never left)


ok, so I want to help you. I want you to feel better. I think I see a photo match...threads, creases, yes, yes, I see it all so clearly now. You have a 100% photo match. No doubt about it.

How's that?

[5kRunner]

There is a gray area...the photo doesn't answer the question either way.....

Whatever.....I'm not getting into an argument with you over the semantics of a photomatch. It might be the same jersey, it might not be. Good luck!

[beantown]

um, removed my NY avatar?

<<<<<<<<<<< (pssst, its still there, it never left)


ok, so I want to help you. I want you to feel better. I think I see a photo match...threads, creases, yes, yes, I see it all so clearly now. You have a 100% photo match. No doubt about it.

How's that?


Now you sound like Lou Lampson.....wait a minute, you at least tried to look at a photo...lol!!! I'm done here...this photo doesn't answer the question....I'll continue the search....

[mwbosoxfan]

Beantown, just thumbing back through all of the posts, I think I counted 13 or 14 different posters that said that they definitely don't see enough definitive characteristics to call it a match. Not one member posted and said that it looked close or it was a match in their opinion. A unanimous opinion would generally lead most people to believe there is no match. I don't believe that leaves any interpretation open to that it still possibly could be a match. Somebody just posted either it is or it isn't. If your opinions were split 50/50, then that would be a different argument.

Many posters have offered detailed opinions as to why they don't think there is a match, but you don't offer any response as to, "I see what you mean". Just not following your logic as to why you think it still could be a match.

[Vintagedeputy]

Now you sound like Lou Lampson.....wait a minute, you at least tried to look at a photo...lol!!! I'm done here...this photo doesn't answer the question....I'll continue the search....

Do you know Lou?

Oh, wait, I get it now. You know Lou, and Lou authenticated the jersey for you as a photo match and you are posting it here for validation due to Lou's spotty history.

Now I understand the hostility. Its ok. If you say its a photo match, I believe you, little slugger!

[beantown]

Beantown, just thumbing back through all of the posts, I think I counted 13 or 14 different posters that said that they definitely don't see enough definitive characteristics to call it a match. Not one member posted and said that it looked close or it was a match in their opinion. A unanimous opinion would generally lead most people to believe there is no match. I don't believe that leaves any interpretation open to that it still possibly could be a match. Somebody just posted either it is or it isn't. If your opinions were split 50/50, then that would be a different argument.

Many posters have offered detailed opinions as to why they don't think there is a match, but you don't offer any response as to, "I see what you mean". Just not following your logic as to why you think it still could be a match.

I offered my opinion on what characteristics I thought looked good, which some agreed....I addressed most if not all opinions on why individuals didn't think it was a photo match...

[beantown]

Do you know Lou?

Oh, wait, I get it now. You know Lou, and Lou authenticated the jersey for you as a photo match and you are posting it here for validation due to Lou's spotty history.

Now I understand the hostility. Its ok. If you say its a photo match, I believe you, little slugger!

About time you come around gramps....glad I could show you the light...

[joelsabi]

I've been trying to photo match my newly accquired Fred Lynn Orioles Gamer from 1985...tough to find good photos of Fred from his Orioles days! I found this one in a Orioles yearbook...is this a photo match???

Also note the arch on the lower part of the nameplate...starts low under the "L" and more material appears under the two "N's"...

the photo on the left is a home white jersey and the photo on the right is grey away jersey.

um.... no match.

[5kRunner]

the photo on the left is a home white jersey and the photo on the right is grey away jersey.

um.... no match.

Okay, this is the third time I've seen this posted in this thread. I must be color blind or something, because the jersey on the right is obviously a home white on my screen. There are some shadows, but it looks white to me. :confused: