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jake33
06-07-2006, 07:25 AM
Over the last 5 years I haev increasingly been annoyed by sports auction houses. While yes, I have bought a large number of 100% genuine game used items from various auctions houses I have an issue with a number of things regarding the auction house industry.

First, recently I purchased from A MAJOR sports auction house $1400 in 2 jerseys. The jerseys ended up being Game ISSUED and not game worn, I called the auction house, the said and I QUOTE exactly, "I am truly sorry for the the mistake, and I will grant youa full refund." I got my $1400 back in a week after I returned the 2 jerseys. Well what do ya know, a month later BOTh jerseys are BACK in auction as GAME worn (written in the description), they sold for a total of $1250. Disgusting.

I don't really get auction houses. Most of them claim to have 2-4 "EXPERTS" examine a particular piece. That in itself is ridiculous. I am a MAJOR collector of Tampa Bay Buccaneers game worn jerseys and a mild collector of DeviL rays game worn jerseys. I have spent COUNTLESS hours over the last few year doing as MUCH research as possible to determine whether a specific Tampa bay jersey is game worn. Sometimes it has even taken me a month to determine. Now would I consider myself an "Expert" when it comes to Buccaneers game worn jerseys? Probably, however do you think ANY AUCTION house put a month of effort in determining any game worn jersey? Also, how can a panel of 2-4 people claim to be an expert on every single style and year of Dodgers, Rams, Bengals, Lakers, Pistons, Oilers, Titans, Texans, Browns, and more jerseys? 30+ teams in every sport NHL,MLB,NFL, NBA. Oh yeah, they are experts on prominant MINOR LEAGUE players jerseys too. Give me a break. -- The cop-out answer fromt he auction houses would be "Each buyer should also do their owne research." YEs, but have you ever gone into Best Buyer and bought a faulty dvd player, then when attpempting to return it, the clerk says "You should ahve known this was crap!"

Furthermore, don't you think there is a CONFLICT of INTEREST when someone sends in a game worn jersey into authentication for an auction? Keep in mind, people like Jim YACKEL are NOT working for these auction houses. More often than not, a jersey WILL get benifit of the doubt, why becuase they want their 10-17.5% commision for the jersey.

Also, most auction houses list 300-2000 game used items at a time. Just by playing the odds, do you HONESTLY feel that EVERY SINGLE item in every auction house is genuine? Are you saying that even Grey Flannel goes 1500 for 1500 on nailing everythign correctly? You can fill in the blank on that one.

Also, that 10-17.5% buyer's premium that they charge. What is that exactly for? Is it all that mass marketing the auction houses do? I worked for the Printing company that prints American Memorabilia, they spend about $20,000 - $27,000 a pop on those catologs you get in the mail, which is fine. However, what OTHER mass marketing do these auction houses do? You don't see McDonald's, Pepsi, or Best Buy advertising a specific cheeseburger,soda or DVD player in their consistant marketing, yeah sure they do once in a while. But the VAST majority of their advertising is IMAGE ENHANCEMENT. What do these auction houses do to MAKE THE INDUSTRY BETTER and enhance the somewhat damaged image of the marketplace, other than cashing in on their passive aggressive marketing?


Last point I'll touch on is separation. When you get those high gloss magazines in the mail. Do you usually see more than one item in it? Of coarse not. Not only are the "authenticator's" only giving a brief paragraph on your game used item, but it is about 1/2 an inch away from legitimate competition for you. 45-115 pages of a large mass of game used items and garbage from movies and television. If these companies actually cared about you as a consumer and a BUYER, they would do a poll asking what game used items would interest you the most. Then PROFILE the consumer then notify them by email, print, or phone. If telemarketers and CASINO's can do it I would assume a small bit of effort would not be out of the question. I acutally got a call from a game used dealer last week inquiring if I'd be interested in XY and Z Buccaneers items. I greatly appreciated that they remembered me and thought of calling. Pretty darn rare.

I wish there was more accountability in this industry. More of a police. And flat out more people that didn't look at the bottm line as the most important aspect of this hobby.


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Jake J

Eric
06-07-2006, 09:10 AM
First, recently I purchased from A MAJOR sports auction house $1400 in 2 jerseys. The jerseys ended up being Game ISSUED and not game worn, I called the auction house, the said and I QUOTE exactly, "I am truly sorry for the the mistake, and I will grant youa full refund." I got my $1400 back in a week after I returned the 2 jerseys. Well what do ya know, a month later BOTh jerseys are BACK in auction as GAME worn (written in the description), they sold for a total of $1250. Disgusting.


Jake
It would help your fellow hobbyists to know who did this and with what items.
If it's how you said, and they acknowledged the items were game issued then described them as game worn again, this is a problem.
Also, how were you able to determine they were game issued and not game used?
Thanks in advance
Eric

mr.miracle
06-07-2006, 09:25 AM
I believe the answer to one part of your question is quite simple. It is obvious that some number of items posted at virtually every major auction house are fakes or at least highly in question. When was the last time that a major auction house ran an auction without any number of items from that auction being seriously questioned to the point that the authenticity of the items were in serious doubt by collectors from this very forum? That unfortunately is a very small fraction of items that are even challenged as to their authenticity as I am sure that 1500 items up for auction do not hold enough interest that they are individually examined by forum experts and collectors.

I think you have hit on a major problem in this so called expert discussion. With the number of auctions some of these houses have per year and the number of pro sports teams in four leagues plus minor leagues, plus non-major sports items auctioned, boxing, tennis, cycling, golf, just to name a few and the fact that teams are constantly releasing new uniforms, adding patches, changing fonts etc. etc., it would seem impossible for anyone to truly do the homework necessary to ensure validity. Add to this that the market is being flooded with more and more fakes all the time due to the money to be made in this industry and one would guess that there is a real problem going on.

One must seriously wonder what steps are taken at the auction houses to verify authenticity. I have no idea what the inner workings look like, but does anyone seriously think that the authenticators know what font size to look for and the spacing between a 2002 Pujols and a 2003 Pujols and what patches came on which and so forth. This is just one example, but to what degree do they really examine these items? In the end, is it all about how much money is coming in the till and not whether these items are the real deal? It certainly leaves room for thought.

jake33
06-07-2006, 10:43 AM
The 2 jerseys I mention were a white Derrick brooks 2004 jersey with THE PIRATE ships on the sleeves sewn on backwards, same problem with the other jersey a Joe Jurevicius, NOt any gmae use on either jersey and extremely crisp numbers and letter, not even wash wear...

Eric
06-07-2006, 10:56 AM
Any photos of these jerseys? Which auction house was it?
Eric

CollectGU
06-07-2006, 11:07 AM
Grey Flannel's past auction recently had both a Jurevicius and a Brooks....

ironmanfan
06-07-2006, 11:23 AM
Grey Flannel...our "People's Court" friends?....nah..can't be!

norristrophy
06-07-2006, 02:02 PM
What I always find intriguing about auctions is the prevelance of recent big name star jerseys from the world of football, baseball and basketball in every auction house's catalog so many times per year...there's always a Lebron, Carmelo, McNabb, Manning, Schilling, etc etc...funny how that is....I'm happy hockey is under control...just saying.

jake33
06-07-2006, 02:07 PM
yep it was G.F.C.

silverschmidts
06-09-2006, 12:07 PM
I strongly agree with many of the sentiments expressed in this thread. We all know that some auction houses are more guilty of these abuses than others. Grey Flannel has been mentioned a lot in this forum but there are others who consisently fail to meet a high standard of ethical business practice. In my view, it's just a reflection of the personalities of the people who are running these businesses. I think there are two aspects to it: corruption and incompetence. I know these are harsh words but unfortunately I think they aptly describe a lot of the practice in the industry. The corruption component is displayed when auction houses knowingly or recklessly place phony goods on the auction block. That seems to be the case with the two jerseys mentioned in this thread. The incompetence part of it has to do with people who may not have bad intentions but are just not skilled at running a business. Hence, they allow bad goods to be made part of their auction or their customer service is spotty, etc. One thing we can all do in response to this is simply not do business with these folks. Vote with your wallets. Don't bid in auctions run by companies with a bad track record even if you see something that entices you. Eventually, the poor quality operations will go out of business if we can have the discipline not to do business with them.
--Steve

norristrophy
06-09-2006, 12:24 PM
I strongly agree with many of the sentiments expressed in this thread. We all know that some auction houses are more guilty of these abuses than others. Grey Flannel has been mentioned a lot in this forum but there are others who consisently fail to meet a high standard of ethical business practice. In my view, it's just a reflection of the personalities of the people who are running these businesses. I think there are two aspects to it: corruption and incompetence. I know these are harsh words but unfortunately I think they aptly describe a lot of the practice in the industry. The corruption component is displayed when auction houses knowingly or recklessly place phony goods on the auction block. That seems to be the case with the two jerseys mentioned in this thread. The incompetence part of it has to do with people who may not have bad intentions but are just not skilled at running a business. Hence, they allow bad goods to be made part of their auction or their customer service is spotty, etc. One thing we can all do in response to this is simply not do business with these folks. Vote with your wallets. Don't bid in auctions run by companies with a bad track record even if you see something that entices you. Eventually, the poor quality operations will go out of business if we can have the discipline not to do business with them.
--Steve

Good post.