O/T: H&B liable for player's death

[Birdbats]

http://www.helenair.com/news/article_17304d04-c44f-11de-b8fa-001cc4c03286.html

I feel bad this family lost their son, and I've never been a fan of aluminum bats. But, to suggest H&B should pay the family almost $800K for "failing to warn users of the danger of its aluminum bats and that this failure caused the accident" -- that's idiotic. Is there anyone who was involved in baseball in 2003 who didn't know aluminum bats were more dangerous than wood bats? And look at that wording: the "failure to warn... CAUSED the accident." This is a sad story that keeps getting sadder.

[kylehess10]

This is ridiculous. I'm surprised they didn't sue Rawlings as well for making baseballs "too hard". Accidents happen.


I loved this quote though:

"All teams should use wooden bats, the way professional players do, Debbie Patch added."


Maybe she should try playing with wooden bats. They just aren't the same. I just finished my first season in a wooden bat league and they are MUCH harder to use. I had my fair share of hits but there is a big difference in distance. I don't believe little leagues should ever use wooden bats. Those little kids wouldn't be able to handle it. It should stay in the 18+ leagues (as well as professional leagues too ofcoarse).

[staindsox]

I completely agree with you. One of my best friends played college ball and was almost killed (exact same accident). He had to have emergency surgery to save his life...he didn't sue Easton or H&B. It would actually have made more sense to sue the league since they were the ones to determine which bats were acceptable...not just aluminum vs. wood, but also the weight to length ratios. I doubt the league has the deep pockets H&B does, so...how is this not about money??? He could have been killed with a wooden bat too, so blaming the manufacturer for something like this is pretty stupid. I can't believe a jury bought this.

Chris

[cjclong]

I agree, this is a bad verdict. Why not sue because a soft rubber ball wasn't used. I hope H&B can appeal the verdict. You feel very sorry for parents whose son is killed, that is tragic. But I don't feel sympathy for people who can't or won't accept that accidents happen and/or just try to milk a tragedy for money.

[nomo121]

These things pass b/c jurys have a large ratio of stupid people on them. That's why so many weird outcomes in court occur. Most people are idiots in the world. That's why a coffee cup says, caution may be hot, why alcohol warns of its ability in impair, and guns come w/ warnings may be dangerous. B/c the world is filled w/ mostly stupid people. We cater to the stupid, rather than attempt to elevate to the more intelligent. This is why I hate jury duty. Watching some mouth breather trying to figure out the complex statements offered in court, b/c obviously folks don't get the simple ones. Such as, hot coffee may burn, a sport where you hit a 100mph ball w/ a metal rod may be dangerous, and why drinking and driving might cause problems. instead, we blame Mcdonalds, a bat company, and the bar that served the idiot the beer.

But things will get better, right?

Kyle, do you live in ftw? They have wood bat leagues here? I've seen the ft cats stuff you mentioned once.

[BMH]

I've spent the past two weeks in Helena, Montana. I must say it is something I never want to do again. I truly feel for the Patch family, their loss is something I cannot ever imagine nor do I ever want to go through it. I hope this judgment will give them some closure.

On a related note, since July 25, 2003 there have been three other players killed in baseball. One by a ball tossed that hit him in the chest and the other two were killed by balls batted from wooden bats. I'm now waiting for those lawsuits because of a "failure to warn".

[nomo121]

I hope my previous rant wasn't taken out of the fact, I do feel for the family. But blaming a bat company for its bats being dangerous is silly. Its too bad folks can't see that, i.e. the jury. Hit a ball with anything can potentially cause a dangerous outcome. Why not make pitchers wear batting helmets. Just hopefully not the bobblehead style ones offered by rawlings.

But, Lousiville has the money and people will chase. I played in a league that wanted the aluminum bats, that while that did hit a speedy ball, they dont shatter and randomly leave large chunks or sharp chards raining down on players...

Wasn't it a wooden bat that hit a ball that killed the poor coach in the minors a few years ago?

[CampWest]

Why do people not hold themselves personally responsible for their own well being? Especially when participating in potentially dangerous activities...

Ya know, I went skydiving once... And I never saw a warning on the parachute that said "If this fails to open, you may be injured - possibly fatally". Perhaps I should consider a lawsuit since there was not proper warning. My common sense was not astute enough for me to discern the dangers without that written warning. [/ end sarcasm]

[CampWest]

I was just thinking... Didnt Smith & Wesson have a lawsuit dismissed on grounds of frivolous nature??? As I recall they had gotten sued because, guess what, bullets are dangerous. But the funny part is they dont make bullets. They just make guns that shoot bullets. Apparently they were sued because the handgun did not have sufficient warning that injury and death could result from firing a bullet from it.

:confused:

[suicide_squeeze]

Most have already stated the obvious, but BRIAN.....My man......you MUST appeal this verdict. This is absolutely assinine.

Nomo is correct....the average person is an imbecile anymore. Until they have someone fill their ears with "SUE THEM!" Then, all of a sudden, they become real smart.

I am going to part with you all on the feeling sorry for the family because their son died. I am not going to be politically correct and tell you that it's horrible and I just can't imagine how their lives must be now. My feelings for them left immediately after reading they sued the bat manufacturer. They appear to be a family of s#!tty character, and the kind that is bringing our country to it's knees. Why must everyone in the world be "paid" for a tragic accicent when they lose a loved one.....a family member......when it's obviously no fault of anyones? Accidents happen.....if you don't want to take risks, don't reproduce. Don't participate in anything in life. Just stay home, lock the doors, and minimize your exposure to danger.......like walking out your front door, ever.

Or.....live a life, and hope for the best.

Did Nick Buoniconti (I know I spelled his name wrong) sue the college his son was playing for when his son broke his neck playing football, paralysing him for life?

Juries are righteous in principle......right up until you are seated next to three "Jethro's" and a "Wilma". Freakin idiots. Look no further than the O.J. trial to illustrate that point.

Sorry for venting, but this type of lawsuit, as tragic and sad as the event was that led to it, is simply wrong.

APPEAL it.

[CampWest]

Brian, Truly sorry for the verdict... Where does H&B go from here? There is now a legal precedent. Are you considering mass recalls to place warning stickers on your bats already in the hands of consumers? Would doing so ruin any chance for an appeal - as a de facto admission? Are you discussing potential changes for future production?

I am stunned by this, hopefully there will be an appeal. The family should have filed a claim against the batter for not swinging softer. Had he not swung so hard, maybe there would have not been an accident... Or had he swung later and hit the ball to the opposite field.

Amazing. Ridiculous. I hope for Nabisco's sake I dont choke on an Oreo... because they have no choking hazard warnings. The risk of corporate liability is growing to dangerous extremes with juries like this.

Best regards and know that rational people support you and your company.


I've spent the past two weeks in Helena, Montana. I must say it is something I never want to do again. I truly feel for the Patch family, their loss is something I cannot ever imagine nor do I ever want to go through it. I hope this judgment will give them some closure.

On a related note, since July 25, 2003 there have been three other players killed in baseball. One by a ball tossed that hit him in the chest and the other two were killed by balls batted from wooden bats. I'm now waiting for those lawsuits because of a "failure to warn".

[BMH]

Guys, thanks for the support. I've taken the rest of the week off and haven't been in contact with work. I need some time to unwind from the trip.

As for what we're going to do, I don't know. I know there are several options on the table, but I can't discuss them at this time. There are some interesting comments on the USA Today site under the story.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2009-10-29-aluminum-bat-lawsuit_N.htm


If that person was an actual juror, it does tell us why they voted the way they did. We suspected they might have a good chance at a sympathy vote and if this person is for real that's what it is. Unfortunately, they didn't realize what that vote would do to companies producing baseball bats.

[PwKw13]

I know for many leagues and teams there's a cost factor involved (wood bats need to be constantly replaced). Can't a less "lively" standard be set for aluminum/metal/composite bats? It doesn't seem like the question should be wood vs. aluminum but how fast should the ball come off any bat. I'm sure that a metal bat could be produced where the ball leaves the bat at the same speed as wood (It may be just a matter of pulling out the inventory and going back to the specs from the 1970s and '80s). The problem is that the consumer wants the bat that gives them the most distance, so the leagues need to be the ones that set the limits.

[CampWest]

I'm scared for the precedent it sets for corporate liability of any company/manufacturer. Seriously, do we need to start putting choking hazards on food products? There has to be a boundary of a "reasonable person" to understand the dangers that exist in everything people choose to do.


Unfortunately, they didn't realize what that vote would do to companies producing baseball bats.

[brianborsch]

I am with you. The fact the family sued H&B for this is Bull$**t! I feel no sympathy for them now. It doesn't make sense to sue the bat company. They should sue the league for allowing that type of bat to be used. And if H&B is sued, the child who swung the bat should be tried for manslaughter as it was not premeditated so it couldn't be murder.

This should be appealed. Money grubbing people get no mercy.

[nomo121]

I am with you. The fact the family sued H&B for this is Bull$**t! I feel no sympathy for them now. It doesn't make sense to sue the bat company. They should sue the league for allowing that type of bat to be used. And if H&B is sued, the child who swung the bat should be tried for manslaughter as it was not premeditated so it couldn't be murder.

This should be appealed. Money grubbing people get no mercy.

Maybe they don't get mercy, but unfortunately they get 800k. I hate to see this happen to a company like HB. I've always loved the LS. In college I loved the Omaha Gold. Still have one. Now that college is past me, still love to swing a LS. Got some maple ones from the Tx Rangers this year.

As I said, the world is full of idiots. Ruger has to put, this weapon may be dangerous, on the side of their guns. Just disappointing. Hopefully HB will be able to appeal, but its a communist world.

[brianborsch]

It really is too bad the world is the way it is. I also LOVE HB. They have so much history and their bats got class. I hope they can recover from this financial setback.
Rather than say this to the family, I am saying it to LVS: "I am sorry for your loss in this matter." I really hope there is a way fro this wrong to be righted.

[xpress34]

Wow. Simply unbelievable. I have to agree with the others who have stated, "Why not sue the ball manufacturer? Or the batter who HIT the ball?"

While I am NOT a lawyer, I did take some law classes while in College and if the parent's are going to sue the Bat Manufacturer for not 'warning them' of the 'inherent dangers', there should be PLENTY of other suits under TORT law. The pitcher himself could be blamed under TORT law which only requires proof that you 'committed the act' the act that caused the injury - not that you intended to cause injury. Therefore, by throwing the pitch he chose, he didn't intend for the batter to hit a liner back to the mound, but it happened. Then the same law could be used against the batter who didn't intend to hit the pitcher, but by the shear act of batting the ball could now be held liable... YES, I know it's a stretch - but no more so than suing the bat maker!!!

I think in the comments that BMH talked about that were posted in response to the story, there are definately some things that LVS should be able to use to appeal:


"for failure to place warnings on the product"

So if i took a baseball bat and hit some1 in the face with it.....clearly i am not at fault seeing as there are no warnings on the bat......that is a good defense!

The judge is setting a precedent in this case, and the above statement isn't a far stretch for some defendant to use - and WIN - a case after beating someone to death. it wasn't HIS fault - it must have been the bat.


Now, all that being said, it's absolutely horrible and tragic that something like this happened to that boy and his family.............but, I'm guessing that the reason the family is not suing the American Legion league is that they signed a "waiver" exempting them from liability...............but they want to sue the bat manufacturer?

I would have to imagine (and again, not a far stretch) that the League distanced themselves from this case (or at least their lawyer did) because of the 'waiver' and I wouldn't be surprised if the league's lawyer didn't at least give the family the idea to pursue LVS


Hello to all I was one of those 12 jurors. It would of took only 8 out of 12 jurors to render a verdict. As for my vote it was NO across the board. The proof wasn't there to say yes to any of the accounts. I read and reread and slept on this and still needed more proof to vote for the Patch family. To me this was a fluke accident and they will happen in sports. The foreperson wanted everyone to compromise and vote yes so the Patch's could be given a award. They just made money off the tragic death of their son. I hope they sleep well at night knowing this. Was it once mentioned which was in the medical reports that Brandon had High Blood Pressure, that he was on Medication for it. That he came almost 1,500ft above sea level to Helena from Mile City, that it was in the 5th ending. All this could of had a factor in his reaction time. I hope H & B appeals this and I hope they win. What next Patch's the ball company how about the kid who swung the bat for murder. To all don't rank me with the 9 jurors who voted yes and remember 2 other jurors voted no also.

WOW!!! Do you think any of this was disclosed in court??? If it's true, then the parents should be held liable for 'child endangerment' for even allowing their son to play ball at all - 1,500 ft above sea level or not!

Brian (BMH) - I'm so sorry that your family's company is having to go through all of this and wish you and yours the best of luck as you move forward through appeals - I'm guessing that is coming.

As far as the Patch family - I do feel for you for your loss. I have a 16 year old son who I adore, but - do you really feel good about looking for a 'villain' in your son's tragic and accidental death?

And one more piece of info - Brandon patch was 18 at the time of his death - this isn't LITTLE LEAGUE Ball - this was AMERICAN LEGION Ball... at 18, he could have been playing college ball or even been developing in the pro leagues already... if this had happened there, would you have sued the college or the team???

It had been made out like he was a young child... here is a picture of the current team:

http://www.milescitybaseball.com/images/2009%20season/Mavs_2009_003.jpg

And there Roster and size stats:

http://www.milescitybaseball.com/images/MavsRoster.gif (http://www.milescitybaseball.com/Links_Mavericksroster.htm) Name Height Weight Class Shawn Elliott 6'0" 200 2008 Chance Kale 5'7" 230 2009 Jordan Bryant 6'0" 190 2009 Logan Klanke 5'7" 160 2009 Michael Poppert 6'0" 165 2009 Kyle Gudmunson 6'1" 185 2009 Kasey Tharp 5'9" 165 2009 Han Chiang Chang 5'11" 160 2009 Tate Wickham 6'1" 160 2010 Garrett Askin 6'1" 190 2010 Bobby Jackson 5'7" 165 2010 Conner Brown 5'11" 170 2010 Tyler Harris 6'0" 175 2011 Jonah Bergman 5'10" 185 2011
These kids are all 5'7" and up and between 165 and 230 lbs!!! Some of them are bigger than college and pro players!!!

BTW - The Mavericks have been playing as a team since 1929!!! There's some history for you BMH... I'm sure that in all of that time - 80 years - that NO ONE in Miles City has ever realized that there was an inherent danger in playing baseball!!!

Per the MCYBA web page:

http://www.milescitybaseball.com/spacer.gif
http://www.milescitybaseball.com/images/MYCBA_ribbon.gif (file:///C:/Users/Mrs.%20E/Documents/My%20Webs/milescitybaseball2/historical.php)http://www.milescitybaseball.com/images/ribbon_left.gif http://www.milescitybaseball.com/images/dot_beige1.gif It is the Mission of the Miles City Youth Baseball Association to provide recreation for children 5 to 19 years of age, foster good sportsmanship, and the necessity for team unity while developing the skills specific to the game of baseball.
Competitive levels shall increase by age and league to assure all children have the ability to develop the necessary skills to participate at the highest level attainable

I'm sure the Patch's had no interest in their son developing his skills to reach the 'highest level attainable'... which is why he was unprepared when this event happened. It was clearly the bat's fault...

Sorry for the rant, but this case just turns my stomach.

- Chris

[Fnazxc0114]

anybody ever wonder why tort reform is such a great idea?

[sox83cubs84]

anybody ever wonder why tort reform is such a great idea?

It WOULD be great...but we're unlikely to see it anytime soon.:mad: The party in power in the White House and Congress considers trial lawyers among their biggest supporters...they're not gonna bite one of the hands that feeds them.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[xpress34]

It WOULD be great...but we're unlikely to see it anytime soon.:mad: The party in power in the White House and Congress considers trial lawyers among their biggest supporters...they're not gonna bite one of the hands that feeds them.

Dave M.
Chicago area

Dave -

I don't like to get into political debates on Sports Forums, but since you opened the can of worms...

If it is so great, then why didn't the FORMER party in power (who you obviously support) get it done? They had ALL of the control then...

I'm tired of listening to all the conservative whiners who immediately started attacking the current regime as soon as they took office. It hasn't even been a year and the FORMER regime didn't do this country any favors over the past 8 years...

My .02

Now, can we PLEASE return to the point in question???

- Chris

[cohibasmoker]

Dave -

I don't like to get into political debates on Sports Forums, but since you opened the can of worms...

If it is so great, then why didn't the FORMER party in power (who you obviously support) get it done? They had ALL of the control then...

I'm tired of listening to all the conservative whiners who immediately started attacking the current regime as soon as they took office. It hasn't even been a year and the FORMER regime didn't do this country any favors over the past 8 years...

My .02

Now, can we PLEASE return to the point in question???

- Chris

Chris - I'm with you on let's keep politics out of the forum but I have to say that

1) When Bush was the President, the Democrats CONTROLLED Congress and,
2) The current Administration ran on the "CHANGE" ticket. The way I see it, where's the Change? To me, its pretty much like the same old, same old.

Now, back on topic - I think Dave is right - it all comes down to lawyers and tort reform.

Jim

[camarokids]

Chris - I'm with you on let's keep politics out of the forum but I have to say that

1) When Bush was the President, the Democrats CONTROLLED Congress and,
2) The current Administration ran on the "CHANGE" ticket. The way I see it, where's the Change? To me, its pretty much like the same old, same old.

Now, back on topic - I think Dave is right - it all comes down to lawyers and tort reform.

Jim

I do believe the Democrats only held a majority of Congress after the 2006 elections. The six years prior Richard "DICK" Cheney would fly in to cast his vote whenever the Republicans needed him to do so for a majority.

Please republicans if your going to spew your sh*t get your freaking facts straight. Bush and Company had things their way for six of the eight years they were in power.

The same old, same old you reference is the crap we had to live with while Bush and Co. were in power. So please don't try and place the blame on the current clown that is in power. All politicians come from the same freaking circus...... It is all a shame.....

One thing I would to add, when Clinton was done the USA was in great shape. After Bush was done, you cannot say the same.

[sox83cubs84]

Ok...halftime show is over...back to the H&B bat issue.

I'm with most of you who have posted...saddened by the death of a young man doing what he enjoyed most, but incensed at the parents trying to make H&B the scapegoat. Another concern...if the judgement is against H&B and stands, it's only a matter of time that some other setllement-chasers do the same thing to Rawlings...X-Bat...Maxbat...Hoosier...Marucci...etc. H&B is big enough to withstand such an assault, but some of the smaller manufacturers could well be driven out of business if targeted with a simialr suit based on a similar situation. Aluminum and/or wood, this could be a Pandora's Box that, once opened, may never be shut.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[cohibasmoker]

I do believe the Democrats only held a majority of Congress after the 2006 elections. The six years prior Richard "DICK" Cheney would fly in to cast his vote whenever the Republicans needed him to do so for a majority.

Please republicans if your going to spew your sh*t get your freaking facts straight. Bush and Company had things their way for six of the eight years they were in power.

The same old, same old you reference is the crap we had to live with while Bush and Co. were in power. So please don't try and place the blame on the current clown that is in power. All politicians come from the same freaking circus...... It is all a shame.....

One thing I would to add, when Clinton was done the USA was in great shape. After Bush was done, you cannot say the same.

Facts? Here are some facts

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_public_plan

Jim

[treant985]

The real question is: if H&B appealed, what would their argument be? Appellate courts decide questions of law...they don't retry the facts of the case just because the jury gave a dumb result.

Even so, there does seem to be a pretty strong question about causation here, perhaps so much that it could rise to the level where the jury got it so wrong that appellate judges could overturn it if they really wanted to. Since judges (maybe not as much these days) tend to be old men, who tend to be baseball fans, perhaps H&B would get more traction on appeal than a typical corporation would.

After all, if the bat came with red warning labels all over it, I doubt it would change the way the game is played or which bats are used. It's not likely that the players relied on a LACK of a warning when they decided to use these bats.

The jury had to conclude that, if the label had been there, the accident most-likely would not have happened. It would be interested on appeal...

[camarokids]

Facts? Here are some facts

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_public_plan

Jim

Those facts only covers the current clown and circus in power.....

The health plan crap they are trying to pass is not the answer....

But, our health system needs a fixing!

[frikativ54]

Those facts only covers the current clown and circus in power.....

The health plan crap they are trying to pass is not the answer....

But, our health system needs a fixing!

What fix would you like, complete privatization?

Back to the topic at hand, am I the only one here who thinks that H & B should pay damages? Baseball bats are dangerous, especially in the hands of strong young men. Why not hold the manufacturer responsible for a commodity that kills?

[frikativ54]

Hopefully HB will be able to appeal, but its a communist world.

What century are you in? :confused:

[brianborsch]

Ummm NO.

Why not just get rid of the game of baseball all together? Brilliant Idea Les. Or better yet, lets make mlb and ALL baseball levels change to wiffle balls and wiffle ball bats. You certainly can't get hurt that way.

The fact of the matter is, the kid was practically an adult in an adult league. Everyone knows the risk. You'd have to, otherwise you are a complete IDIOT. The kids parents are a bunch of idiots. I feel 0% for them, because of the way they are handling this case. A bunch of money grubbing idiots. It may sound harsh, but thank God their child passed. One less of their genes out there to create these situations.

Like others have said before, accidents happen. And if H&B is held liable in this case, then the batter should also be charged for manslaughter, and the league should be charged for negligence (regardless of what waivers anyone has signed). If H&B made their bats according to the rules and guidelines they were allowed to do, then they should not be charged. PERIOD!

[brianborsch]

" Why not hold the manufacturer responsible for a commodity that kills?"

Ever heard of the term: It's not guns who kill people, it's people who kill people.

Yeah.....

[camarokids]

What fix would you like, complete privatization?

Back to the topic at hand, am I the only one here who thinks that H & B should pay damages? Baseball bats are dangerous, especially in the hands of strong young men. Why not hold the manufacturer responsible for a commodity that kills?

Hi Frik,
Haven't seen u on the boards lately....

I think the insurance companies are one of the main problems, so no to privatization.....

Something that brings down costs and gets rid of all the red tape and BS that ins. companies are all about is needed......What the answer is? I don't know????

The actual thread topic:
I do not agree with the juries decision at all!

Appeal Brian!

[GoTigers]

Wow, this is disgusting. What's the warning label going to say? Warning: using a bat with the intention of batting a ball in play; may result in batting a ball in play.

This is amazing, why not sue Rawlings for too hard a ball, or the opposing strength coach for making the batter too strong, or the team for not providing adeqate protection, or maybe his own coach for not giving him the skills to move out of the way.

With judgments like this H&B should sue their lawyer for losing this case, and causing financial/ emotional distress.

An appeal is definatly in order, and maybe new representation is too.

[nomo121]

Blaming the bat company for the kid's death, is like saying matches cause lung cancer, when its smoking that's the problem.

Les, if you don't see how sad the country is, and only getting sadder. That this is another representation of what is wrong with america. I can't help you.

No one likes one basic concept. Taking responsibility for their own actions, and sometimes stuff happens. Any physical sport can be dangerous. Everyone knows these awesome bats have pop, or else, why use them. If you are 18, been playing ball, then you knew this. You dont want batters hitting off you with them, then play in the appropriate league.

[xpress34]

Back to the topic at hand, am I the only one here who thinks that H & B should pay damages? Baseball bats are dangerous, especially in the hands of strong young men. Why not hold the manufacturer responsible for a commodity that kills?

Really??? Hmm... let's see - the LEAGUE determines what size and types of bats are APPROPRIATE to 'raise the competitive level' (see my previous post with info taken directly from their website)...

If the players are not ready to compete at that level and with the type of equipment deemed appropriate by the league, they should not be playing period.

ESPECIALLY a kid with a KNOWN Medical Condition for which he was taking medication at the time of his death!!! It's quite possible that with a High Blood Pressure condition that his meds were thinning his blood to help lower the pressure and that the same hit to another player without his condition may not have resulted in death. I'm not saying it absolutley would not have, but it is possible.

And if you think that the manufacturer should be held responsible, then you MUST think Rawlings. Easton, Wilson (whoever made the BALL which was approved by their league) must also be held responsible.

And you MUST also believe that whoever manufactured the WOOD bat and the baseball that killed the Rockies Minor League Coach (Coolbaugh) in 2007 should also be prosecuted. Hell, he wasn't the one who threw the ball or hit the ball - he was standing in the 1st base box almost 90 feet from home plate (20+ feet further than the pitching mound) and the ball hit his neck (off of a WOOD bat) with such force that it ruptured his Jugular vein in his neck and he bled out internally.

If you really believe that, then you probably want nets strung all the way down the baselines to protect the fans - like hockey gave into after the little girl's death a few years ago - and that EVERYONE on the field should wear protective gear or they should use softer bats and softer balls... oh wait!!! There's already a game with a softer ball - it's called SOFTBALL.

And as far as all of the other politcal crap - first let me say I'm an INDEPENDENT - but I find it saddening that after the record is set straight about the GOP controlling 6 of Bush's 8 years, the ONLY RW Conservatives can do is jump onto the bandwagon about the current Health Bill??? If you can't back up your statements any better than that, please quit being a Rush Limbaugh. I'm done with the political bashing here...

- Chris

[frikativ54]

Ummm NO.

Why not just get rid of the game of baseball all together? Brilliant Idea Les. Or better yet, lets make mlb and ALL baseball levels change to wiffle balls and wiffle ball bats. You certainly can't get hurt that way.

Your reductio ad absurdum ignores my very legitimate point. Of course, I am not going to suggest that playing baseball be banned. However, there has to be some accountability for the death of this young man. The guy died using one of H & B's products. Wouldn't it make sense for the company to be liable for a death incurred using its bats?

I think the verdict is spot on. Aluminum bat manufacturers have known for years that their products can and have killed people. Yet, they keep producing them and ignoring the problem. Maybe this verdict will serve as a wakeup call to H & B - that the status quo in regard to aluminum bats is not okay, and that they will have to manufacture a safer product.


The fact of the matter is, the kid was practically an adult in an adult league. Everyone knows the risk. You'd have to, otherwise you are a complete IDIOT. The kids parents are a bunch of idiots. I feel 0% for them, because of the way they are handling this case. A bunch of money grubbing idiots. It may sound harsh, but thank God their child passed. One less of their genes out there to create these situations.

Are you serious? These parents lost a son, and you have the nerve to call them money-grubbing idiots, whose son deserved to die? The reality is that no amount of money can replace a son - ever. I truly feel sorry for the family, and even sorrier that they have to read crap suggesting that they had it in for them. Have a little sympathy for the family.

[frikativ54]

Les, if you don't see how sad the country is, and only getting sadder. That this is another representation of what is wrong with america. I can't help you.

IMO, this country is getting so much better. Medical advances, women's equality, gay rights, increasing secularization, etc. I am so lucky I wasn't born 50 years ago...

[brianborsch]

I am sorry, but I have no sympathy for the family in this situation. You seriously think that there is anyone who thinks that playing baseball is safe? A hit back with a wood bat could kill someone as well. Would H&B be exempt from a lawsuit if one of their wooden bats caused someone to die?

If H&B followed the rules set in place to make a legal bat, then they should not be the one liable. The leagues that allow the alluminum bats should be. Plain and simple.

People need to take responsibility for their decisions. Either their son, or the parents, or both decided that he play in the league. For them it was a bad choice as their son was affected by a freak accident that doesn't happen often.

Les, it's time to get off the righteous high-horse and come back to reality. This is an example of how messed up our legal system is right now, and how stupid society is.

If anyone thinks that swinging any type of baseball bat is safe, then they deserve to be incarcerated.

[xpress34]

A hit back with a wood bat could kill someone as well. Would H&B be exempt from a lawsuit if one of their wooden bats caused someone to die?

Brian -

I mentioned this fact a few posts ago in reference to Mike Coolbaugh.


If H&B followed the rules set in place to make a legal bat, then they should not be the one liable. The leagues that allow the alluminum bats should be. Plain and simple.

EXACTLY!!! Where is the LAWSUIT against the leagues that AASK for this type of equipment and allow this DEADLY item to be used???


People need to take responsibility for their decisions.

I get the feeling that Frik is one of those people who believe that Sears and other needed to put stickers on Lawn Mowers so that Joe Idiot couldn't sue them when he cuts his hand off because he stuck it UNDER a running mower... and I'm sure she supported the stupid woman who sued McDonald's for the coffee being too hot!!! And that jury still awarded her a big payday AFTER she admitted she had the lid OFF, the cup BETWEEN her legs, DRIVING and trying to add sugar and cream! REALLY???

CLEAN THE GENE POOL!!! Darwin had a Point!!! Survival of the Fittest!!!

- Chris

[suicide_squeeze]

Your reductio ad absurdum ignores my very legitimate point. Of course, I am not going to suggest that playing baseball be banned. However, there has to be some accountability for the death of this young man. The guy died using one of H & B's products. Wouldn't it make sense for the company to be liable for a death incurred using its bats?

I think the verdict is spot on. Aluminum bat manufacturers have known for years that their products can and have killed people. Yet, they keep producing them and ignoring the problem. Maybe this verdict will serve as a wakeup call to H & B - that the status quo in regard to aluminum bats is not okay, and that they will have to manufacture a safer product.




Are you serious? These parents lost a son, and you have the nerve to call them money-grubbing idiots, whose son deserved to die? The reality is that no amount of money can replace a son - ever. I truly feel sorry for the family, and even sorrier that they have to read crap suggesting that they had it in for them. Have a little sympathy for the family.


This is a great example of why America is going to hell.

We have.....um.......people, like nomo referred to, that have trouble negotiating rational thought as they stumble through their brain waves as they try to evaluate reason.

Frik, YOU feel H & B should be penialized because some player, at the end of his rope in going as far as he would have ever gone in competitive baseball, pharmiceutically-stimulated and suffering from a serious medical condition, throws a pitch that didn't fool the hitter?

Are you for real?

To date, I have always given you the benefit of the doubt, and have even stuck up for you in your strange views. But you obviously have some serious issues other than a thyroid problem. You have "reasoning" problems.

These last point of views of yours that you so preciously chose to sahre and bless the board with has done a number on me.

I will state this in general terms......if the other intelligent and well thought out, well reasoned posts on this thread aren't enough to make a reasonable person understand this retarded jury verdict is just that......then the person isn't reasonable.

This verdict WILL BE overturned in an appellate court!!!!

[MLB_Authentic]

Guns don't kill people, husbands that come home early do.

[frikativ54]

This is a great example of why America is going to hell.

To date, I have always given you the benefit of the doubt, and have even stuck up for you in your strange views. But you obviously have some serious issues other than a thyroid problem. You have "reasoning" problems.

Let me get this straight: I don't think the same way as you do, so that is grounds for saying I have serious problems? In my mind, it is ridiculous to tell someone who has disagreements on the nature of product liability that she somehow has "serious issues".

The bottom line is that I hate to see businesses given a free pass, when their products do harm to people. That is a perfectly reasonable position. Aluminum bats are unsafe in a number of ways; therefore, H & B should be held at least partially responsible for the young man's death.

This is a perfectly reasonable position. You don't have to personally attack people who come to a different conclusion, weighing the evidence. In my mind, America is only becoming a better country in which to live - and holding businesses accountable for their products is a great thing.

Hopefully, in my lifetime, we can continue to see positive change in America.

[Fnazxc0114]

What fix would you like, complete privatization?

Back to the topic at hand, am I the only one here who thinks that H & B should pay damages? Baseball bats are dangerous, especially in the hands of strong young men. Why not hold the manufacturer responsible for a commodity that kills?
anyone want to make a list of random objects that kill people?
i imagine someone has killed themselves with a fork. thats go sue the fork makers
a lot of people have been killed by gm/dodge thats sue them
im sorry that the poor family lost their son, but its not any reason to sue someone, it was an accident. my wife is in the medical field and every time i here the word law suit i kind of get a little pissed. granted some lawsuits are needed but this instance isnt one of those cases.

[suicide_squeeze]

Let me get this straight: I don't think the same way as you do, so that is grounds for saying I have serious problems? In my mind, it is ridiculous to tell someone who has disagreements on the nature of product liability that she somehow has "serious issues".

The bottom line is that I hate to see businesses given a free pass, when their products do harm to people. That is a perfectly reasonable position. Aluminum bats are unsafe in a number of ways; therefore, H & B should be held at least partially responsible for the young man's death.

This is a perfectly reasonable position. You don't have to personally attack people who come to a different conclusion, weighing the evidence. In my mind, America is only becoming a better country in which to live - and holding businesses accountable for their products is a great thing.

Hopefully, in my lifetime, we can continue to see positive change in America.


So........"positive change" to you would mean if someone hits a Big Bertha 4-iron on their second shot of a 425 yard par four hole on a golf course, and a guy on another hole who is running accross the fairway to pick up an errant drive from his hole, takes a doinker to the temple which kills him.......Callaway Corporation should be sued and held liable?

Excuse my harshness......but are you mental? WHAT IS WRONG with your REASONING ability, frik??? Your "different point of view" is different all right.......it's "different" from anything and everything that resembles logic, intelligence, and common sense. You need to develop some cognitive skills, because somewhere along the line a wire came undone from the back side of your neck. You're missing the part of "knowledge" that would "connect" with what a reasonable person would conclude when presented with a circumstance that needed logical thought.

.......like 9 of the jurors who sat on the jury of the case this thread is about.

We're going to hell, people. We have em among us!

[xpress34]

The bottom line is that I hate to see businesses given a free pass, when their products do harm to people. That is a perfectly reasonable position.

SERIOUSLY???

Let's take this statement to heart... we should make it open season to sue:

ANY manufacturer of KITCHEN knives (they are used to kill people daily)

ANY manufacturer of tire irons and the like as they are used to kill people

ANY manufacturer of candle sticks or fireplace irons - again, used to kill people

ANY manufacturer of ANY type of rope - used to kill people

ANY manufacturer of ANY type of plastic bag - used to kill people

Do I REALLY need to go on???

I guess we should sue ALL of the MLB players (past and present) including your beloved Jeff Bagwell as they have ALL at some point and time used a baseball bat (wood or aluminum does not matter - again, refer to the Mike Coolbaugh death) for hitting balls into the stands that have injured fans - or maybe the fans should sue MLB and the Players and EVERY bat manufacturer...

Your reasoning is truly unreasonable simply by the can or worms - or as another put it, the 'Pandora's Box' it would open.

[frikativ54]

So........"positive change" to you would mean if someone hits a Big Bertha 4-iron on their second shot of a 425 yard par four hole on a golf course, and a guy on another hole who is running accross the fairway to pick up an errant drive from his hole, takes a doinker to the temple which kills him.......Callaway Corporation should be sued and held liable?

There's no comparison. It is a known fact that a pitcher needs more reaction time than what he was given in this situation. If that's the case, bat companies should make bats where the maximum ball velocity coming off the bat, given the distance from the batter to the pitcher, would make it so the pitcher would have enough time to react. Then, taking those precautions, the company should not be liable. However, no precautions have been taken, given what is a dangerous product. Just because H & B was found to be responsible, that doesn't mean that the league also shouldn't take some responsibility.


Excuse my harshness......but are you mental? WHAT IS WRONG with your REASONING ability, frik??? Your "different point of view" is different all right.......it's "different" from anything and everything that resembles logic, intelligence, and common sense. You need to develop some cognitive skills, because somewhere along the line a wire came undone from the back side of your neck. You're missing the part of "knowledge" that would "connect" with what a reasonable person would conclude when presented with a circumstance that needed logical thought.

.......like 9 of the jurors who sat on the jury of the case this thread is about.

We're going to hell, people. We have em among us!

Now I'm mental?!?! Seriously? I just can't believe that I am being called crazy for what is just a difference of opinion. My opinions do not cohere with yours. Last time I checked, that's not a sufficient condition to be committed to an insane asylum. The world wouldn't be what it is without legitimate differences in perspective.

Someone who is mental would say that the ball was taken over by space aliens off the bat, and that's why the kid died. And the kid was at fault, because Jesus was whispering in his ear that some squirrel was gonna get pregnant and nurse her babies outside of my apartment. Therefore, the kid was distracted and couldn't field the ball and died.

You should hear people talk who are actually crazy. That is the kind of stuff they say - just read someone last night on a local TV station's blog talking about voice to skull weapons. But I am presenting a perfectly logical argument, which is informed by my concerns about businesses not taking enough responsibility for their products' safety.

[frikativ54]

SERIOUSLY???

Let's take this statement to heart... we should make it open season to sue:

ANY manufacturer of KITCHEN knives (they are used to kill people daily)

ANY manufacturer of tire irons and the like as they are used to kill people

ANY manufacturer of candle sticks or fireplace irons - again, used to kill people

ANY manufacturer of ANY type of rope - used to kill people

ANY manufacturer of ANY type of plastic bag - used to kill people

These are totally unrelated scenarios. All of these household objects have other uses besides murdering people. If someone beat his wife over the head with a baseball bat, then I would not hold the company responsible. However, baseball bats' primary purpose is to hit balls with. This comes with considerable danger. When the primary purpose of your product puts people in harm's way, which baseball bats do, then you have a problem. Therefore, H & B needs to be held liable and needs to create a safer product.

[brianborsch]

Gang,

Frik is what she is. Her views don't make sense. This is my last post on the matter as I feel that 99.9% of this entire board agrees that LVS is not liable.
Let it go to appeals and lets see what happens. This world is going to hell in a hand basket and this case is a direct example.

Those parents should take some responsibility. And the courts better make sure they don't get their grubby hands on the money for their own enjoyment. They should be forced to put towards education on the dangers of baseball bats! Ha!

MORONS!

[STLHAMMER32]

These are totally unrelated scenarios. All of these household objects have other uses besides murdering people. If someone beat his wife over the head with a baseball bat, then I would not hold the company responsible. However, baseball bats' primary purpose is to hit balls with. This comes with considerable danger. When the primary purpose of your product puts people in harm's way, which baseball bats do, then you have a problem. Therefore, H & B needs to be held liable and needs to create a safer product.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but wouldn't this statement apply to using just about any object...it would be the balls fault as much as the bat..the ball is too hard etc..I missed the nail hit myself with a hammer....hammer is too hard..wait I'm goin to sue the manufacturer of the nail becaue it wasn't big enough....

You hear about burglars suing sunlight companies when the fall through the roof or suing the owner for improper stairway installation...this is right up there..pure insanity!!!

[cohibasmoker]

These are totally unrelated scenarios. All of these household objects have other uses besides murdering people. If someone beat his wife over the head with a baseball bat, then I would not hold the company responsible. However, baseball bats' primary purpose is to hit balls with. This comes with considerable danger. When the primary purpose of your product puts people in harm's way, which baseball bats do, then you have a problem. Therefore, H & B needs to be held liable and needs to create a safer product.

Hey Frik, how about snow skis? Their primary purpose is to ski down a mountain on slippery snow and ice. I wonder how many people are injured and/or killed each year due to skiing accidents?

Gee, I bet Riddell executives aren't sleeping too soundly after the H&B verdict.

Jim

[GarkoCollector]

I think I am going to sue Hostess because all of the twinkies over the years I've eaten have made me fat. The fatness has most assuredly slowed me down. One day when I get hit by a car and I'm killed, my wife can argue that if I hadnt been fat, I could have gotten out of the way. Then she can sue the car maker for making their cars too fast, the metal company for making the metals too hard, the city for making the roads too smooth and anyone else that has no defense for making products to a high standard as they are supposed to.

[suicide_squeeze]

BMH,

On a serious note, and hopefully a positive one, I would recommend you copy and print this entire thread for your attorneys. I think if it were handed to the judge in the appellate court, and was reviewed by all the competent parties involved, your verdict would be overturned, and the case thrown out.


This whole case is absolute proof that there are serious deficiencies in the jury system. I'm sure Brian is just sick over the fact that he has been victimized by a group of morons who have the cognitive reasoning abilities of a "frik".

There is a lot more than a "difference of opinion" involved here. It isn't even a case of seeing the trees through the forrest. It's a case of not having the developmental skills to reason out what is right or wrong. It's a case of a bunch of weak people making a wrong judgement which was based on pure emotion, a group who let reality and the magnitude of this tragedy twist their thinking from that of a normal reasonable person who is in control of their faculties.

Frik, your rediculous assessment of the "facts" of this situation are troubling on so many levels. HOW in the WORLD can a bat manufacturer develope a bat that would take into account all of the "intabgibles" of every single possible outcome of a pitch???

The pitchers strength...

The batters strength....

The fact that the pitcher was medicated on that day...

The fact that the pitcher was "tired" after partying the night before into the wee hours with his girlfriend...

The fact the batter was "sitting on that very pitch, and he got it!"...

Like Chris, earlier, I could go on and on. Your pathetically un-thought-out conclusion that H & B should have ANY responsibility is, as some has mentioned here, including myself, unsurb beyond all reasoning. I'm sorry, but I do think you're a whack job. And unfortunately, your kind ended up on that jury.

Brian,if what that poster on USA today said is true, and the floor person tried to persuade with pressure other jurors to come to see his view, you may have a mistrial. Other jurors statements could reveal that. I would do anything and everything to fight the verdict here. It is flat out wrong, and we all, save one, feel your pain. Good luck, please let us know how it goes. I homestly can't believe that you will receive anything other than complete justice in an appellate court which would be the overturning of this rediculous and emotionally irresponsible verdict.

Regards,

Steve

[suicide_squeeze]

Wow, in my haste to not "time out" my typos are getting bad :(

last post......"unsurb" = ubsurd

"intabgibles" = intangibles

[MiLe HigH]

But you obviously have some serious issues other than a thyroid problem. You have "reasoning" problems.

LOL...+1

[sox83cubs84]

Hey, not so fast...as long as it's open season to sue anyone for any reason, with my kidney problems, heart pacemaker, tourette syndrome meds, sunken sternum, and badly swollen right arm, I'll think I'll sue God because He didn't make me a superjock. :)

Dave M.
Chicago area

[nomo121]

I think I am going to sue Hostess because all of the twinkies over the years I've eaten have made me fat. The fatness has most assuredly slowed me down. One day when I get hit by a car and I'm killed, my wife can argue that if I hadnt been fat, I could have gotten out of the way. Then she can sue the car maker for making their cars too fast, the metal company for making the metals too hard, the city for making the roads too smooth and anyone else that has no defense for making products to a high standard as they are supposed to.


Tom,
If this works, let me know. I want to start a class action suit. I have a ton of evidence... :)

[sox83cubs84]

But you obviously have some serious issues other than a thyroid problem. You have "reasoning" problems.

LOL...+1


Make it +2.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[Fnazxc0114]

if thats the case i think a lot of us need to jump in on your lawsuit.


Hey, not so fast...as long as it's open season to sue anyone for any reason, with my kidney problems, heart pacemaker, tourette syndrome meds, sunken sternum, and badly swollen right arm, I'll think I'll sue God because He didn't make me a superjock. :)

Dave M.
Chicago area

[Capital-Sports]

But you obviously have some serious issues other than a thyroid problem. You have "reasoning" problems.

LOL...+3


geez after reading some of this thread, I need a beer

[suicide_squeeze]

Wow, in my haste to not "time out" my typos are getting bad :(

last post......"unsurb" = ubsurd :eek: :eek: :eek:

"intabgibles" = intangibles


Let's try this one last time.....

unsurb = absurd ..........like my spelling!:o

[treant985]

I don't see how a warning label would make a difference, and thus I can't say that the jury made an informed legal decision. They didn't bother to see if all the legal requirements were met. They saw this permuted view of the world: a young man died; a corporation could be sued; corporations always have lots of money and insurance; thus, $800K is worth a lot more to the plaintiffs than H&B.

As I take it, frik's logic is like this: baseball bats are designed to hit baseballs hard, so when they achieve this--but to a dangerous level--then the company should be responsible. I guess it'd be like saying that knives are designed to cut, but some knife is made so dangerously that it could cut a hand off in 2/5 of a second.

Most people don't buy this argument because most people recognize the inherant danger in knives (and baseball bats). The question for me would be whether the product is a latently dangerous item--that is, it appears to be like all other bats but somehow is much more dangerous. I doubt H&B's bat is of such danger that it could rise to that level.

If the plaintiffs are truly concerned with their cause, they will donate their money to charity.

[treant985]

Hey, not so fast...as long as it's open season to sue anyone for any reason, with my kidney problems, heart pacemaker, tourette syndrome meds, sunken sternum, and badly swollen right arm, I'll think I'll sue God because He didn't make me a superjock. :)

Dave M.
Chicago area

I recall hearing of a case about 2 yrs ago where a woman sued God because lightning struck a tree and it landed on her house. Since the defendant never showed up, the woman won automatically, but I'd guess she hasn't collected any money yet...

[treant985]

Just a random thought about product warnings: I think we'll eventually have warnings on pretty much every single thing you could buy. The irony is that, with warnings on everything, nobody will ever read ANY of them.

Thus, we end up in the same situation we were 50 years ago: your ability to avoid dangerous items depends solely on your knowledge and ability to pick out what's dangerous and what's not.

[frikativ54]

I'll think I'll sue God

Best idea of the thread.

[frikativ54]

I recall hearing of a case about 2 yrs ago where a woman sued God because lightning struck a tree and it landed on her house. Since the defendant never showed up, the woman won automatically, but I'd guess she hasn't collected any money yet...

She is sure going to be waiting for a while.

[treant985]

Best idea of the thread.

Also reminds me of a commercial a few years back that lampooned trial lawyers by showing people who had successfully sued themselves for dumb things they did, like slipping in the shower.

[cohibasmoker]

Best idea of the thread.

Hey Frik - ever sky dive? I've made three jumps and I guarantee if you don't believe in God or of a higher spiritual power, give it a whirl. I guarantee when your falling to earth, you'll be praying to God that your chute opens.

I wonder, if parachutes are made specifically for sky-diving, since it was my choice to sky dive, if my chute doesn't open can my wife sue the pilots who took me up? The plane manufacture who made the plane? And the chute manufacturer who made the chute? Just wondering.

Jim

[nomo121]

Hey Frik - ever sky dive? I've made three jumps and I guarantee if you don't believe in God or of a higher spiritual power, give it a whirl. I guarantee when your falling to earth, you'll be praying to God that your chute opens.

I wonder, if parachutes are made specifically for sky-diving, since it was my choice to sky dive, if my chute doesn't open can my wife sue the pilots who took me up? The plane manufacture who made the plane? And the chute manufacturer who made the chute? Just wondering.

Jim

I don't know about God, but I keep hoping Newton will be wrong.. :) You would have to sue Isaac Newton by the way.

[jppopma]

Brian, Sorry to hear about this case. I'm sure it is hard to learn of your product being even remotely involved in the death of someone. I'm sure H&B would have paid for medical and funeral expenses just out of sympathy. Yet, sometimes people want more...

This case is a perfect example of what's wrong with the world. It should come down to neglect. If the product worked as designed and there were no problems, there should be no case. Everyone knows that baseball is a dangerous sport and this same outcome can happen to any one of us. If you don't know that, maybe you should sit on your fat ass and use the extra time to find things to whine or sue about.

I agree that politics don't belong here...but this case does tie directly into the heatlh care issue! People always complain about health care cost and pass the blame on politicians, doctors, medical companies, etc. WHERE IS THE BLAME FOR THESE SCUMBAG LAWYERS??? They have all of the same frivilous lawsuits against the medical companies and in the end, we all pay for it. Think of how much of that $500 billion medical lawsuit and added insurance we are each paying for in the higher prices for our meds. That's where I see the problem being, but yeah---that never makes the news.

I won't go so far as the blame the parents or anything of that, but I do feel that a lawsuit is about the most disrespectful way to acknowledge their son. "Hey y'all, we lost our son, but we can now buy a new car" Shameful!

[Vintagedeputy]

Your reductio ad absurdum ignores my very legitimate point. Of course, I am not going to suggest that playing baseball be banned. However, there has to be some accountability for the death of this young man. The guy died using one of H & B's products. Wouldn't it make sense for the company to be liable for a death incurred using its bats?

I think the verdict is spot on. Aluminum bat manufacturers have known for years that their products can and have killed people. Yet, they keep producing them and ignoring the problem. Maybe this verdict will serve as a wakeup call to H & B - that the status quo in regard to aluminum bats is not okay, and that they will have to manufacture a safer product.



Are you serious? These parents lost a son, and you have the nerve to call them money-grubbing idiots, whose son deserved to die? The reality is that no amount of money can replace a son - ever. I truly feel sorry for the family, and even sorrier that they have to read crap suggesting that they had it in for them. Have a little sympathy for the family.


We have a winner! I have now officially seen the most ridiculous line of thinking ever.

You have got to be kidding me......

[cohibasmoker]

Brian, Sorry to hear about this case. I'm sure it is hard to learn of your product being even remotely involved in the death of someone. I'm sure H&B would have paid for medical and funeral expenses just out of sympathy. Yet, sometimes people want more...

This case is a perfect example of what's wrong with the world. It should come down to neglect. If the product worked as designed and there were no problems, there should be no case. Everyone knows that baseball is a dangerous sport and this same outcome can happen to any one of us. If you don't know that, maybe you should sit on your fat ass and use the extra time to find things to whine or sue about.

I agree that politics don't belong here...but this case does tie directly into the heatlh care issue! People always complain about health care cost and pass the blame on politicians, doctors, medical companies, etc. WHERE IS THE BLAME FOR THESE SCUMBAG LAWYERS??? They have all of the same frivilous lawsuits against the medical companies and in the end, we all pay for it. Think of how much of that $500 billion medical lawsuit and added insurance we are each paying for in the higher prices for our meds. That's where I see the problem being, but yeah---that never makes the news.

I won't go so far as the blame the parents or anything of that, but I do feel that a lawsuit is about the most disrespectful way to acknowledge their son. "Hey y'all, we lost our son, but we can now buy a new car" Shameful!

BINGO - we have a winner. In the current 1995 page healthcare bill, there is NOT a single line or a single word that addresses the #1 issue of high cost of medical insurance - TORT REFORM.

NO MORE POLITICS !!!!!!!! however;

What about the jury? This Country has become a bunch of whiner's and victims all looking to sue someone rather than get off their fat butts. On Sunday, I was watching NFL games and there were a lot of commercials on how the NFL believes that through the power of sports, (exercising 60 minutes a day), the NFL can help in the fight of childhood obesity. As I was watching the commercials, I kept wondering how many kids are going to get hurt and some parent and lawyer will sue the NFL because their kid got hurt playing sports. Seem ridiculous? Not in this society.

It's a shame that members of this forum weren't members of the jury in the original case because if it had, with the exception of one (1) member, I believe the case would have had a different outcome.

Just my opinion, I hope I didn't offend any one with my comments.

Jim

[5kRunner]

I really can't believe I read this whole thread. :(

I agree with most of the comments. H&B will hopefully appeal.

Warning labels? LOL. Like the warning label on my iron: NEVER IRON CLOTHES WHILE THEY ARE BEING WORN. What kind of idiot does that? :confused:

I fear for my country's future.

[sox83cubs84]

Cohiba and 5K...my sentiments exactly.:(

Dave M.
Chicago area

[suicide_squeeze]

Man......am I disgusted.


Did any of you happen to catch "OTL" (Outside The Lines) on ESPN yesterday? It had, as it's first and most prominent story, this Louisville Slugger "Patch family" case debacle.

Two things about what I saw are deeply disturbing to me.

When the verdict was read, the mother turned to her asshole attorney and went all wide-eyed, smiling with a pleasantly surprised look on her smile as they hugged eachother....in the same manner Kardashian turned to O.J. when the unbelievable verdicts were read in that case.....both leading anyone who was watching to see that the thought in the minds of these people were the same....."WOW, we just got away with MURDER!!!"

I mean, it was very telling.

The second thing was that Bob Lee, the host of the show, then later interviewed one of the family attorneys and said "A statement has been released by the Louisville Slugger company basically saying they are not planning on appealing....How do you feel about that?"

This a-hole said "I didn't know that....That's surprising. I fully expected this case to be appealed".

What does that tell all of you???


Brian, I completely understand your families reasoning as to letting this tragic event just end by not appealing this wrong and punishing verdict for no reason or fault on your company's behalf......but you and your company have just been publicy raped my friend. The expression on that mothers face was extremely telling. It suddenly became all about the money.

As others have mentioned here, if this family, as they are trying to claim, is only trying to eliminate the use of aluminum bats from a certain level of competition on due to the wrong claim there is no reaction time to properly protect yourself, then they should donate the money to a cause that will see the means to that end.

What do you think the odds of THAT happening are? From the looks on the face of the mother in the courtroom, let me end the mystery.......ZERO!

There was a clip in the ESPN story showing the most dramatic rediculous funeral for the unfortunate son who died. There were estimated 1,400 people there....obviously a well advertised event for the community. They had the funeral ON THE BASEBALL FIELD. His teammates carried his coffin up onto the mound as a public address announcer called out on the loud speakers "NOW PITCHING FOR THE (team name)........(first name) PATCH!"

I am not going to state my opinion of this kind of a funeral......to each his own. But I can't help but feel that the drama involved in this type of a public funeral was partially an attempt to ilicit public emotion in the community for the tragic accident that took the Patch's son. Louisville Slugger was a loser before this case was ever heard.

The attorneys for the family then presented a bunch of scientific garbage about reactionary times and such between a wood bat and aluminum bat. In other words, confuse the real issues with mumbo-jumbo horseshit no one really understands, and in doing so make your case stronger because no one is truly expert enought o understand it.

But in laymen's terms, it could have been presented in a much more honest and precise scientific manner.

Unfortunately for the family, the son had mores genes from his overweight genetically-unimposing weaker and slower mother who in no way, shape or form, possessed any qualities of an athlete.

Appeal it!!!

[camarokids]

appeal!!!!!

Do Not Go Down Without A Fight!!!

[BMH]

I'm not sure where they are getting their information for that segment. We have not made a decision on what to do with the outcome of this case and we are still weighing our options.

[sox83cubs84]

Take 'em to the woodshed, Brian...the Forum stands with you.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[treant985]

Overturning jury verdicts is tough business. Judges hate it because it removes the purpose of even having juries if the judges will just reverse whenever they feel like it--especially in civil cases like this. Of course, most juries are boxes of rocks anyway, but that's how the system goes.

Based on a quick look, Montana does not have an intermediate Court of Appeals like most states--everything goes straight to the state Supreme Court. That court has 7 members, 6 of which are men.

Just stereotyping, I'd say that H&B would have a better chance than most civil defendants of overturning a jury verdict because this is a defendant whose products has likely been used by almost all of the justices at some point in their lives.

[cohibasmoker]

I'm not sure where they are getting their information for that segment. We have not made a decision on what to do with the outcome of this case and we are still weighing our options.

It's really not my place to say what you guys should do but, we all agree (strike that - most of us agree) that the incident was an ACCIDENT and it was very tragic. However, you guys sell a awful lot of bats - if you guys decide NOT to appeal and just settle the case, where does it end?

Jim