O/T: H&B liable for player's death

**kylehess10** · 10-29-2009, 03:45 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

This is ridiculous. I'm surprised they didn't sue Rawlings as well for making baseballs "too hard". Accidents happen.

I loved this quote though:

"All teams should use wooden bats, the way professional players do, Debbie Patch added."

Maybe she should try playing with wooden bats. They just aren't the same. I just finished my first season in a wooden bat league and they are MUCH harder to use. I had my fair share of hits but there is a big difference in distance. I don't believe little leagues should ever use wooden bats. Those little kids wouldn't be able to handle it. It should stay in the 18+ leagues (as well as professional leagues too ofcoarse).

**staindsox** · 10-29-2009, 03:54 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I completely agree with you. One of my best friends played college ball and was almost killed (exact same accident). He had to have emergency surgery to save his life...he didn't sue Easton or H&B. It would actually have made more sense to sue the league since they were the ones to determine which bats were acceptable...not just aluminum vs. wood, but also the weight to length ratios. I doubt the league has the deep pockets H&B does, so...how is this not about money??? He could have been killed with a wooden bat too, so blaming the manufacturer for something like this is pretty stupid. I can't believe a jury bought this.

Chris

**cjclong** · 10-29-2009, 04:06 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I agree, this is a bad verdict. Why not sue because a soft rubber ball wasn't used. I hope H&B can appeal the verdict. You feel very sorry for parents whose son is killed, that is tragic. But I don't feel sympathy for people who can't or won't accept that accidents happen and/or just try to milk a tragedy for money.

**nomo121** · 10-29-2009, 04:12 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

These things pass b/c jurys have a large ratio of stupid people on them. That's why so many weird outcomes in court occur. Most people are idiots in the world. That's why a coffee cup says, caution may be hot, why alcohol warns of its ability in impair, and guns come w/ warnings may be dangerous. B/c the world is filled w/ mostly stupid people. We cater to the stupid, rather than attempt to elevate to the more intelligent. This is why I hate jury duty. Watching some mouth breather trying to figure out the complex statements offered in court, b/c obviously folks don't get the simple ones. Such as, hot coffee may burn, a sport where you hit a 100mph ball w/ a metal rod may be dangerous, and why drinking and driving might cause problems. instead, we blame Mcdonalds, a bat company, and the bar that served the idiot the beer.

But things will get better, right?

Kyle, do you live in ftw? They have wood bat leagues here? I've seen the ft cats stuff you mentioned once.

**BMH** · 10-29-2009, 04:28 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I've spent the past two weeks in Helena, Montana. I must say it is something I never want to do again. I truly feel for the Patch family, their loss is something I cannot ever imagine nor do I ever want to go through it. I hope this judgment will give them some closure.

On a related note, since July 25, 2003 there have been three other players killed in baseball. One by a ball tossed that hit him in the chest and the other two were killed by balls batted from wooden bats. I'm now waiting for those lawsuits because of a "failure to warn".

**nomo121** · 10-29-2009, 05:22 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I hope my previous rant wasn't taken out of the fact, I do feel for the family. But blaming a bat company for its bats being dangerous is silly. Its too bad folks can't see that, i.e. the jury. Hit a ball with anything can potentially cause a dangerous outcome. Why not make pitchers wear batting helmets. Just hopefully not the bobblehead style ones offered by rawlings.

But, Lousiville has the money and people will chase. I played in a league that wanted the aluminum bats, that while that did hit a speedy ball, they dont shatter and randomly leave large chunks or sharp chards raining down on players...

Wasn't it a wooden bat that hit a ball that killed the poor coach in the minors a few years ago?

**CampWest** · 10-29-2009, 05:53 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Why do people not hold themselves personally responsible for their own well being? Especially when participating in potentially dangerous activities...

Ya know, I went skydiving once... And I never saw a warning on the parachute that said "If this fails to open, you may be injured - possibly fatally". Perhaps I should consider a lawsuit since there was not proper warning. My common sense was not astute enough for me to discern the dangers without that written warning. [/ end sarcasm]

**CampWest** · 10-29-2009, 05:55 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I was just thinking... Didnt Smith & Wesson have a lawsuit dismissed on grounds of frivolous nature??? As I recall they had gotten sued because, guess what, bullets are dangerous. But the funny part is they dont make bullets. They just make guns that shoot bullets. Apparently they were sued because the handgun did not have sufficient warning that injury and death could result from firing a bullet from it.

**suicide_squeeze** · 10-29-2009, 11:11 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Most have already stated the obvious, but BRIAN.....My man......you MUST appeal this verdict. This is absolutely assinine.

Nomo is correct....the average person is an imbecile anymore. Until they have someone fill their ears with "SUE THEM!" Then, all of a sudden, they become real smart.

I am going to part with you all on the feeling sorry for the family because their son died. I am not going to be politically correct and tell you that it's horrible and I just can't imagine how their lives must be now. My feelings for them left immediately after reading they sued the bat manufacturer. They appear to be a family of s#!tty character, and the kind that is bringing our country to it's knees. Why must everyone in the world be "paid" for a tragic accicent when they lose a loved one.....a family member......when it's obviously no fault of anyones? Accidents happen.....if you don't want to take risks, don't reproduce. Don't participate in anything in life. Just stay home, lock the doors, and minimize your exposure to danger.......like walking out your front door, ever.

Or.....live a life, and hope for the best.

Did Nick Buoniconti (I know I spelled his name wrong) sue the college his son was playing for when his son broke his neck playing football, paralysing him for life?

Juries are righteous in principle......right up until you are seated next to three "Jethro's" and a "Wilma". Freakin idiots. Look no further than the O.J. trial to illustrate that point.

Sorry for venting, but this type of lawsuit, as tragic and sad as the event was that led to it, is simply wrong.

APPEAL it.

**CampWest** · 10-29-2009, 11:55 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Brian, Truly sorry for the verdict... Where does H&B go from here? There is now a legal precedent. Are you considering mass recalls to place warning stickers on your bats already in the hands of consumers? Would doing so ruin any chance for an appeal - as a de facto admission? Are you discussing potential changes for future production?

I am stunned by this, hopefully there will be an appeal. The family should have filed a claim against the batter for not swinging softer. Had he not swung so hard, maybe there would have not been an accident... Or had he swung later and hit the ball to the opposite field.

Amazing. Ridiculous. I hope for Nabisco's sake I dont choke on an Oreo... because they have no choking hazard warnings. The risk of corporate liability is growing to dangerous extremes with juries like this.

Best regards and know that rational people support you and your company.

Originally posted by BMH

I've spent the past two weeks in Helena, Montana. I must say it is something I never want to do again. I truly feel for the Patch family, their loss is something I cannot ever imagine nor do I ever want to go through it. I hope this judgment will give them some closure.

On a related note, since July 25, 2003 there have been three other players killed in baseball. One by a ball tossed that hit him in the chest and the other two were killed by balls batted from wooden bats. I'm now waiting for those lawsuits because of a "failure to warn".

**BMH** · 10-30-2009, 11:28 AM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Guys, thanks for the support. I've taken the rest of the week off and haven't been in contact with work. I need some time to unwind from the trip.

As for what we're going to do, I don't know. I know there are several options on the table, but I can't discuss them at this time. There are some interesting comments on the USA Today site under the story.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...-lawsuit_N.htm

If that person was an actual juror, it does tell us why they voted the way they did. We suspected they might have a good chance at a sympathy vote and if this person is for real that's what it is. Unfortunately, they didn't realize what that vote would do to companies producing baseball bats.

**PwKw13** · 10-30-2009, 12:33 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I know for many leagues and teams there's a cost factor involved (wood bats need to be constantly replaced). Can't a less "lively" standard be set for aluminum/metal/composite bats? It doesn't seem like the question should be wood vs. aluminum but how fast should the ball come off any bat. I'm sure that a metal bat could be produced where the ball leaves the bat at the same speed as wood (It may be just a matter of pulling out the inventory and going back to the specs from the 1970s and '80s). The problem is that the consumer wants the bat that gives them the most distance, so the leagues need to be the ones that set the limits.

**CampWest** · 10-30-2009, 01:22 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I'm scared for the precedent it sets for corporate liability of any company/manufacturer. Seriously, do we need to start putting choking hazards on food products? There has to be a boundary of a "reasonable person" to understand the dangers that exist in everything people choose to do.

Originally posted by BMH

Unfortunately, they didn't realize what that vote would do to companies producing baseball bats.

**brianborsch** · 10-30-2009, 01:33 PM

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I am with you. The fact the family sued H&B for this is Bull$**t! I feel no sympathy for them now. It doesn't make sense to sue the bat company. They should sue the league for allowing that type of bat to be used. And if H&B is sued, the child who swung the bat should be tried for manslaughter as it was not premeditated so it couldn't be murder.

This should be appealed. Money grubbing people get no mercy.

O/T: H&B liable for player's death

O/T: H&B liable for player's death

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