OT: eBay and insurance

[Birdbats]

Was anyone aware that you cannot automatically add insurance costs to eBay listings any longer? I just found out the hard way -- sold a bat for almost $800 (using the template I've always used) and the automatic postage calculator charged less than $9 for shipping. I read through the message boards on eBay and learned that if you want buyers to pay for insurance, you have to add that into the starting bid or to "other shipping costs" -- which assumes the seller knows what each item will sell for when they list it. What a pain in the rear. It's bad enough I now have to pack items before I list them so I can put the weight into the shipping calculator (God forbid somebody win multiple items and want them shipped together). Now I have to guess what they'll sell for and build in the insurance cost. Oh, for the good ol' days when my listings said, "seller will pay actual shipping and insurance" -- and I actually could calculate that, based on what they bought and where they lived.

I don't want this to turn into another eBay bashing thread... just wanted to bring this to others' attention so you don't get burned like I just did.

[otismalibu]

I don't pay for insurance when I buy items on eBay.
Insurance is to protect the seller, not the buyer.

When I sell, then I pay for insurance.

[sammy]

I include the insurance in the shipping fee, so the buyer does pay for insurance, and it is stated that the shipping fee includes insurance.

The fee is based upon the BIN price. If the item sells for less, any remainder is used to offset the 10 percent in fees I pay to eBay and PayPal.

Most of the time the shipping fee is within a few dollars over or under of what I charged.

[David]

EBay made an announcement about this a while back. You can charge insurance but can't advertise the fact, by saying so as part of the shipping. You can secretly include it in the charge, but they don't like you to be overt about it.

eBay's reason is because they don't want potential buyers to get the idea that only some items on eBay are insured. They want the potential buyers to know that everything is insured in that the seller is taking responsibility. eBay felt that people getting the impression that somethings are insured and others note is bad marketing.

[David]

Also note that insurance is for the buyer as well. For example, if the item is damaged while in the hands of the post office, the seller could say "That's not my fault, talk to post office" -- and the seller would have a reasonable point. If a postman has a bad day and throws the mail in the river, many seller's aren't taking personal or financial responsibility for that.

[MarinersFan34]

Insurance is for the seller only and it's there to protect them and make sure they are covered. I don't get how so many sellers pass the blame on to the buyer saying they're not responsible if insurance isn't purchased.

The seller is the one that buys the insurance on the item and files the claim should something go wrong during shipment. The seller is responsible for delivering the product or a refund and this refund would come from the post office. Yes, I know after you drop it off it's out of your hands.. hence the reason for insurance. You cannot guarentee it will arrive perfectly to it's destination unless you hand delivered it yourself but that is one of the facts of shipping you can't change.

People would rather have a buyer have a negative experience with a broken or missing item so you can keep your money and leave the buyer with nothing? Guess what, if you bought insurance, you get to keep your money still and make the buyer happy to some degree since they at least get a refund. You file a insurance claim, you get a refund on your claim, you send money back to buyer. The item is still broken or missing but neither you or the buyer are out any money, the one responsible for the mistake is, the post office.

That's just my view on it though, which may be way off from the normal but that's the way I've always viewed insurance, it's there to protect the seller in case something should happen so they can refund the buyer and not lose money.

[Birdbats]

Let's be honest -- your local store owners are responsible for paying sales taxes to states and municipalities, too. But, who actually pays them? Customers. Sales tax is tacked on to transactions, automatically and legally. Automatically adding insurance to eBay shipments is no different, especially when the terms on the listing say the buyer will pay for shipping and insurance. If people don't want to pay the insurance, they don't have to bid. Unlike sales taxes, at least they have the choice.

When I bid on items, I consider the shipping and insurance costs when deciding how much to bid. All eBay has done is shift this responsibility to the seller, who now has to build insurance into the price. The difference is, as a buyer, I know what my insurance costs would be based on my bid amount. As a seller, I have to guess what my item will fetch.

[David]

In practice rather than theory, if the buyer doesn't want insurance and the item is damaged while in the hands the USPO (clear fault of USPO, the seller did nothing wrong), many sellers won't give refund because they did nothing wrong and believe they don't see how they are responsible for the USPO's error. Thus, in practice, insurance is a benefit to to the buyer in that they might not get a refund without it.

One can reasonably argue who is responsible when there is USPO error-- buyer or seller or USPO. But don't assume all sellers take take financial responsibility for a third party's error, because many won't. Many sellers won't see how they are any more responsible than the buyer for a third party error.

[the3lads]

I believe in legal terms, once a seller ships an item, he/she is not responsible for safe passage. So, it would be in the buyer's interest to purchase insurance, as it is the buyer who would file the claim and not the seller.

[otismalibu]

If a postman has a bad day and throws the mail in the river, many seller's aren't taking personal or financial responsibility for that.

I pay by Paypal. If my widget shows up in pieces, it's "not as described". Guess who gets the refund?

If I buy a computer and it shows up damaged, can Dell simply say that I didn't pay the extra $2.50 for insurance and it's too bad for me? They simply factor their ins. cost their shipping price, as has been stated.

The deal ain't done until the buyer gets the item, in the condition it was advertised.

[David]

Duly note that all I was saying is the buyer is served by insurance not just the seller. Because buyers have been out the money due to them asking the item not be insured, where they would have been refunded if they asked for insurance.

[CampWest]

Sales tax is tacked on to transactions, automatically and legally.

I totally agree, though your example is a little over-complicated. The buyer pays for shipping. Insurance is part of shipping costs. So Buyer pays for shipping.

That said, if a seller doesn't offer insurance or fails to purchase it, the burden of retribution is on the seller. So it protects the seller, but is the responsibility of the buyer to pay for, unless the seller offers free insurance.


Insurance is for the seller only and it's there to protect them and make sure they are covered. I don't get how so many sellers pass the blame on to the buyer saying they're not responsible if insurance isn't purchased.

The seller is the one that buys the insurance on the item and files the claim should something go wrong during shipment. The seller is responsible for delivering the product or a refund and this refund would come from the post office.

Totally disagree that its only the seller. My one lost item as a seller... The buyer filed the claim, the USPS delivered payment and I had zero involvement.

When a buyer pays with a money order, Insurance may be the only way for the BUYER to reclaim any losses.

Bottom line, in my opinion, if its un-insured, that is the seller's issue. If it is insured it is more than fair to ask the buyer to pay that as part of the shipping costs. Its up to each seller to decide if they want to take on the risk (self-insure), or require it be paid as part of the shipping costs.

[MarinersFan34]

Well, good for you, good for the buyer and good for the USPS since it was not always that easy to get the claim resolved.

I guess I'm more of the thought of making sure what I send gets there in 1 piece or as intended and not just say, you didn't purchase insurance deal with it and thanks for the free money.

Leaving insurance up to the buyer is just stupid as most will NOT buy it. Technicaly you're right though, it's not all the seller but why even bother with that headache when you can spend a few bucks and be covered. Oh, I know.. I know.. there is no headache because they didn't get insurance, case closed :rolleyes: To each their own I guess..

[maccamania]

Mariners,
I agree with you, I always just include the ins in with shipping, most buyers wont buy it and Ebays policy is if not received or item not as described, you can file a cliam in 60 days and that will on the seller, so just protect yourself.