If you paid BIG $ for JO's Cutler or Sanchez

[34swtns]

....jerseys.

I feel for you.

Think of it as a learning experience.;)

[TriplexXxSports]

$3k+ for a Cutler and $20k for a Sanchez. You will NEVER, EVER see your money back for those. I just hope that the folks that were dumb enough to jump the gun and pay those prices bought them because they are related to those guys or something. Sure wasn't because either of those players a good and worth that kind of bread.

Its actually funny to me. That's one hell of a costly lesson. I can hear it now....."yeah, I paid for a $3000 Cutler jersey because he led the league in interceptions that year. That alone makes it a one of a kind"......dumbasses.

[Fnazxc0114]

Class envy anyone? What people dont realize is that many of the people who drop that kind of coin do so for a reason. Anyone got any ideas what those reasons are? I think it is because they can.

[GarkoCollector]

Class envy anyone? What people dont realize is that many of the people who drop that kind of coin do so for a reason. Anyone got any ideas what those reasons are? I think it is because they can.

Just proves that money can't buy you common sense.

[34swtns]

Class envy anyone? What people dont realize is that many of the people who drop that kind of coin do so for a reason. Anyone got any ideas what those reasons are? I think it is because they can.


And the abillity to indiscriminately "drop that kind of coin" can result in some hard and very expensive lessons.

[Fnazxc0114]

You know Troy Aikman for instance had a really rough first year in the league. What would you pay now for the first legit jersey that he ever wore as a pro? You question my common sense thats fine, but i bet the person who dropped 20 grand on a jersey probably has plenty of common sense. Perhaps the idea of spending 20 grand didnt require much thought for the owner.

[Fnazxc0114]

If you had a million in the market and lost 20 grand in one day would you really be worried? For all we know the person who bought the jersey is a regular working stiff and bought it at 24 percent on a credit card. I really think that scenario is highly unlikely.


And the abillity to indiscriminately "drop that kind
of coin" can result in some hard and very expensive lessons.

[legaleagle92481]

The prices paid for these items was insane to begin with and these purchasers should have realized from the start that anything short of an Elway, Montana type career (which was 99.9999% not likely to happen) would result in them taking steep losses on these items. However, they are unlikely to learn from it as noone wastes money better than wealthy people, especially on luxury items. These purchases were not investments they were an attempt to get bragging rights with their wealthy friends.

[David]

I agree with legaleagle. Some hot draft picks are initially priced so high that if they turn out to be the next Steve Young, instead of Joe Montana, the prices will drop. In fact, even if the player turns out the next Joe Montana, the prices can still drop.

[ironmanfan]

$3k+ for a Cutler and $20k for a Sanchez. You will NEVER, EVER see your money back for those.

I'm not sure there is any one person on this board that can look in the mirror and admit to themselves that every GU piece they've ever purchased will (at least) return the money that they spent on it.

If you can, you're a better person that me.

[TriplexXxSports]

I'm not sure there is any one person on this board that can look in the mirror and admit to themselves that every GU piece they've ever purchased will (at least) return the money that they spent on it.

If you can, you're a better person that me.

I don't consider myself a better person, because I am far from. But the first thing I ask myself is... "if I purchase this, does it have the potential to make a profit?" If the answer is NO, then I will pass on it. Even stuff for my personal collection.

I think that is in the back of every collectors head at some point. Its just more of a priority for me. Everything has a price and if you can make even $50 or $100 above what you paid then it makes that piece worth the purchase price, IMO.

Why buy something knowing that if you ever need to sell it you are going to take a loss, or not get (at least) your money back? I know most collectors do not plan on selling certain pieces in their collection, but we all know that is not realistic. Stuff happens and stuff will need to go to make room for that next "gotta have it" item, or a baby, or mortgage payments, etc.

The only downfall to places such as JO Sports is that their prices are set high enough that it minimizes, if not eliminates, any potential for resale profit. You cannot blame them because it is marketing genius, but to us average joe's that cannot afford a $3k Cutler, or a $20 Sanchez, we tend to shy away from them and wait for a better deal to come along.

We have all seen this recently with the items that JO has consigned to the auction houses. You saw that the items went for much less than their website asking prices.

I'd like to see them work a little more with us common collectors rather than cater to the rich guys with more dollars then sense. I know they used to......

[clinton2828]

this thread is unproductive and causes nothing but ill will and is another example of why activity on this board is dropping.


why do we need to call someone out for buying something they wanted.

remember a jersey is worth what one person is willing to pay not what 99.99 percent of what people think it is worth.

i say we close this thread and keep this board more positive toward helping the hobby. And who is to say the person who bought the sanchez for $20k could have later sold it privately for $25k, we just don’t know.

[mbenga28]

JO reminds me a lot like Steiner. That's why I stick with MeiGray, their prices are more reasonable.

[ironmanfan]

I don't consider myself a better person, because I am far from. But the first thing I ask myself is... "if I purchase this, does it have the potential to make a profit?" If the answer is NO, then I will pass on it. Even stuff for my personal collection..

I've been collecting GU since the mid 1980's and I have to admit that potential for profit has never entered my mind once for any of the pieces for my personal collection..

I'm certainly prepared to sell my items if I had to (loss of job, medical emergencies, mortgage, etc.), but I know that I can only expect to receive back the market value of the item at the time of sale (which may be more or less than what I paid for it).

Am I in the minority here?

[cohibasmoker]

this thread is unproductive and causes nothing but ill will and is another example of why activity on this board is dropping.


why do we need to call someone out for buying something they wanted.

remember a jersey is worth what one person is willing to pay not what 99.99 percent of what people think it is worth.

i say we close this thread and keep this board more positive toward helping the hobby. And who is to say the person who bought the sanchez for $20k could have later sold it privately for $25k, we just don’t know.

Would I spend that kind of money for that kind of jersey? NO however, how a person chooses to spend their money is up to them. They earned it so they can spend it whatever way they wish.

Just a thought - And a very Merry Christmas to all.

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[legaleagle92481]

I've been collecting GU since the mid 1980's and I have to admit that potential for profit has never entered my mind once for any of the pieces for my personal collection..

I'm certainly prepared to sell my items if I had to (loss of job, medical emergencies, mortgage, etc.), but I know that I can only expect to receive back the market value of the item at the time of sale (which may be more or less than what I paid for it).

Am I in the minority here?

I agree with you. GU stuff is not much of an investment. Say you invest a grand in a jersey and three years later you sell it for $100 more than you paid, that is a 10% gain which amounts to only a 3.3333 percent gain per year over the three years. When inflation is factored in you are gaining even less than that. Also the longer you hold a piece the less it is worth for most players, including the superstars. People have a what have you done for me lately mentality and when a guy is retired and out of the spotlight for a couple of years people move onto the players of the moment and the hyped up young players, which causes demand and hence price to drop for the retired players. Look at JO or MEI Gray's websites they have jerseys of current hall of famers and retired players who are locks for the Hall selling for less than guys who have done very little if anything at the pro level. There are exceptions of course for example if someone was lucky enough to get a Brady or Romo jersey from their rookie years when they were nobodies and the jerseys would have went for a song they would obviously be sitting on a huge return no matter when they sold the jersey.

[eisenreich8]

I've been collecting GU since the mid 1980's and I have to admit that potential for profit has never entered my mind once for any of the pieces for my personal collection..

I'm certainly prepared to sell my items if I had to (loss of job, medical emergencies, mortgage, etc.), but I know that I can only expect to receive back the market value of the item at the time of sale (which may be more or less than what I paid for it).

Am I in the minority here?

Maybe, but I am of the same mindset as you. I have collected GU for only maybe 10 years, almost exclusively one player until recently, and I will pay whatever necessary to acquire my player. Have never once considered resale value. It may fetch pennies on the dollar one day, but I subconsciously or otherwise justify any GU purchase for my collection as: I get to keep it and enjoy it, vs. rounds of golf, days on the lake fishing, or other "experiences" which, although fun to priceless, are fleeting moments with diminishing returns also.

Travel is awesome, but you will not get a return on that either. I truly must say I have never regarded market value or resale value as a reason to hit or stay.

Also collecting Civil War artifacts and personal effects, mostly focused on a very narrow subset, I know I could flip some of these items for substantial profit, but would then be minus the intrinsic value of the item. One of my failings has always been that money is not important to me, but "stuff" is........

I agree with whomever said the value is set by the purchaser. It's a personal thing. Not all purchases are intelligent ones but some are driven by the "gotta have 'em all" mentality.

[skipcarayislegend]

this thread is unproductive and causes nothing but ill will and is another example of why activity on this board is dropping.


why do we need to call someone out for buying something they wanted.

remember a jersey is worth what one person is willing to pay not what 99.99 percent of what people think it is worth.

i say we close this thread and keep this board more positive toward helping the hobby. And who is to say the person who bought the sanchez for $20k could have later sold it privately for $25k, we just don’t know.

I agree. Who cares what someone else pays? And what’s with the name calling? Would you guys feel better if we started running future purchases past the forum for a “dumbass” check? If the buyer wants to pay $100k for Sanchez’s steering wheel cover, let him. It’s his money; he can do whatever he wants with it. And good for the buyers for not caring about resale value or the opinions of the price police. That’s the way it should be. Good for JO too for getting $20k for a dirty shirt worn once by an unproven rookie. I’ve got a few can’t miss jerseys I’d love to unload for 1/10 of that. The funny thing is 99.99% of the general public would probably tell you that only a dumbass would pay more than $100 for that jersey.

[ChrisCavalier]

why do we need to call someone out for buying something they wanted.

remember a jersey is worth what one person is willing to pay not what 99.99 percent of what people think it is worth.

i say we close this thread and keep this board more positive toward helping the hobby.
I have to agree here. What is the purpose of this thread? Part of one of the rules we have is:

It is expected that all posts are to be created with a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby.

People may have different reasons for paying whatever they do for an item. If there is something that the hobby can benefit from by questioning what someone is willing to pay for an item please let me know. Otherwise, we would ask that we try to focus on the rule above.

[TriplexXxSports]

I have to agree here. What is the purpose of this thread? Part of one of the rules we have is:

It is expected that all posts are to be created with a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby.

People may have different reasons for paying whatever they do for an item. If there is something that the hobby can benefit from by questioning what someone is willing to pay for an item please let me know. Otherwise, we would ask that we try to focus on the rule above.


I cannot answer why this thread was started. I will own up to my own opinions though, and that is exactly what they are opinions.

On your point Chris, maybe a more productive way to continue this thread would be to go off what CLINTON2828 originally stated:

"a jersey is worth what one person is willing to pay not what 99.99 percent of what people think it is worth"......so lets go with it then.

Why do you guys think a person would pay that much for a players jersey that is....

A) unproven as a NFL rookie and has thus far fell short of the expectations and hype surrounding him?

B) leads the NFL in interceptions, only trailing Brett Favre's record of 29 INT's by 4 with 2 games left to play?

Since it is ultimately us as collectors that determine the market value of game used items, why do you think a person would pay the amount that they did for those 2 jerseys?

[earlywynnfan]

Maybe, but I am of the same mindset as you. I have collected GU for only maybe 10 years, almost exclusively one player until recently, and I will pay whatever necessary to acquire my player. Have never once considered resale value. It may fetch pennies on the dollar one day, but I subconsciously or otherwise justify any GU purchase for my collection as: I get to keep it and enjoy it, vs. rounds of golf, days on the lake fishing, or other "experiences" which, although fun to priceless, are fleeting moments with diminishing returns also.

Travel is awesome, but you will not get a return on that either. I truly must say I have never regarded market value or resale value as a reason to hit or stay.

Also collecting Civil War artifacts and personal effects, mostly focused on a very narrow subset, I know I could flip some of these items for substantial profit, but would then be minus the intrinsic value of the item. One of my failings has always been that money is not important to me, but "stuff" is........

I agree with whomever said the value is set by the purchaser. It's a personal thing. Not all purchases are intelligent ones but some are driven by the "gotta have 'em all" mentality.

Hey, I was trying to reach you but accidentally deleted your email. Did you see there's an Eisenreich bat closing on ebay this evening?

ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[xpress34]

One positive spin you can put on ANY purchases - regardless of price - is that you now have a RECEIPT showing what you paid, so regardless of what the Secondary Market may bear, as far as Insurance, they will cover the $$$ you spent in case of fire, theft, etc.

That is why I photograph every item in my collection as well as scan each COA and Receipt and am building a master Excel Spreadsheet that has EVERYTHING I own (whether PC or for sale/trade) and I store multiple copies - on the home PC, on my external HDD (that is web accessible by me), on web based storage sites (Photobucket, etc) as well as backing up on a 4G memeory stick that I always take with me.

Also, like many on here, I don't buy for resale. Do I sell and trade stuff? Absolutely. But I buy because I want it and I set the purchase price I'm willing to pay, and if it goes over that price? Well then, I'll just start looking for the next item I want.

I see lots of stuff sell for more than I think it's worth (at least more than it's worth to me), but I'm sure there are jerseys out there that I would love to own and would probably pay more (if I could afford it) than the average collector would consider to be sane.

It all comes down to Personal Taste I guess.

But, like what seems to be every other thread here, I agree that this bashing and name calling has to end. Have I gotten into disagreements here? Of course, but I have never had to resort to name calling to make my point. The same goes with the Religious/Political/etc banter that seems to permeate into lots of threads around here. I don't care what your Religious / Political spin is and I'm sure that you don't want to know mine. I understand some members have very strong feelings on these issues, but THIS is NOT the place, and if I have to keep reading through people's personal agendas / slants on them, I will be leaving here like so many others. It is NO LONGER FUN - which is what a HOBBY is supposed to be. This isn't a LIFE or DEATH deal - but with some members it's starting to feel that way.

Let's get back to the topic (and Site name) at hand - GAME USED UNIVERSE. The rule I hold myself to on these sites is simple - if it ain't sports / collecting related, it has no place here.

Many times, I open a thread about Joe Schmoe's recent pick up and by the 3rd or 4th post, I'm reading some drivel about the Health Bill or this or that about Obama, etc, etc and I'm like, "How the hell did this become the subject matter of a thread about the Jersey this guy just purchased?"

If you want to rant about what's wrong (or right even) with our country, GO TO A NEWS BLOG. I come here to ESCAPE that crap - not to let it permeate my life.

That's my .02

- Chris

[clinton2828]

"Why do you guys think a person would pay that much for a players jersey that is...."

1) they are loaded and a big jets fan and money is not an issue

2) a sanchez family member

3) fans of teams or players will always pay more to get the items they want, i have and will do it with my own collections because items are worth more to me than to others.

[eisenreich8]

Hey, I was trying to reach you but accidentally deleted your email. Did you see there's an Eisenreich bat closing on ebay this evening?

ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

Did indeed, hope to "overpay" for it! :) Thanks for mentioning it!

Joe

[xpress34]

"Why do you guys think a person would pay that much for a players jersey that is...."

1) they are loaded and a big jets fan and money is not an issue

2) a sanchez family member

3) fans of teams or players will always pay more to get the items they want, i have and will do it with my own collections because items are worth more to me than to others.

AGREED!!!

It's like my Matt Holliday 2006 ASG GU BP Jersey that I got through Andrew Lang... MLB still had it available almost 4 years later... why? I'm sure because most people thought $800 + for the jersey was an insane price. To me, the jersey is worth way more as it is from Matt's 1st ever ASG and because Matt knows who I am. He gladly signed it and added a Game Used inscription when I showed him the MLB hologram and a print out of the Holo description verifying it from MLB as Game Used.

It is now a cornerstone of my Holliday Collection. I didn't buy it for resale, but it's funny how many Holliday collectors I know thought I was insane, but AFTER it was Autographed and Inscribed, they all now want it for a premium over what I paid...

Again, I'll go with the simple answer - PERSONAL TASTE / PREFERENCE. No one owes anybody any reason or explanation beyond that.

- Chris

[eisenreich8]

AGREED!!!

It's like my Matt Holliday 2006 ASG GU BP Jersey that I got through Andrew Lang... MLB still had it available almost 4 years later... why? I'm sure because most people thought $800 + for the jersey was an insane price. To me, the jersey is worth way more as it is from Matt's 1st ever ASG and because Matt knows who I am. He gladly signed it and added a Game Used inscription when I showed him the MLB hologram and a print out of the Holo description verifying it from MLB as Game Used.

It is now a cornerstone of my Holliday Collection. I didn't buy it for resale, but it's funny how many Holliday collectors I know thought I was insane, but AFTER it was Autographed and Inscribed, they all now want it for a premium over what I paid...

Again, I'll go with the simple answer - PERSONAL TASTE / PREFERENCE. No one owes anybody any reason or explanation beyond that.

- Chris


Chris, Thank you for that statement. I live by it.

[sox83cubs84]

One positive spin you can put on ANY purchases - regardless of price - is that you now have a RECEIPT showing what you paid, so regardless of what the Secondary Market may bear, as far as Insurance, they will cover the $$$ you spent in case of fire, theft, etc.

That is why I photograph every item in my collection as well as scan each COA and Receipt and am building a master Excel Spreadsheet that has EVERYTHING I own (whether PC or for sale/trade) and I store multiple copies - on the home PC, on my external HDD (that is web accessible by me), on web based storage sites (Photobucket, etc) as well as backing up on a 4G memeory stick that I always take with me.

Also, like many on here, I don't buy for resale. Do I sell and trade stuff? Absolutely. But I buy because I want it and I set the purchase price I'm willing to pay, and if it goes over that price? Well then, I'll just start looking for the next item I want.

I see lots of stuff sell for more than I think it's worth (at least more than it's worth to me), but I'm sure there are jerseys out there that I would love to own and would probably pay more (if I could afford it) than the average collector would consider to be sane.

It all comes down to Personal Taste I guess.

But, like what seems to be every other thread here, I agree that this bashing and name calling has to end. Have I gotten into disagreements here? Of course, but I have never had to resort to name calling to make my point. The same goes with the Religious/Political/etc banter that seems to permeate into lots of threads around here. I don't care what your Religious / Political spin is and I'm sure that you don't want to know mine. I understand some members have very strong feelings on these issues, but THIS is NOT the place, and if I have to keep reading through people's personal agendas / slants on them, I will be leaving here like so many others. It is NO LONGER FUN - which is what a HOBBY is supposed to be. This isn't a LIFE or DEATH deal - but with some members it's starting to feel that way.

Let's get back to the topic (and Site name) at hand - GAME USED UNIVERSE. The rule I hold myself to on these sites is simple - if it ain't sports / collecting related, it has no place here.

Many times, I open a thread about Joe Schmoe's recent pick up and by the 3rd or 4th post, I'm reading some drivel about the Health Bill or this or that about Obama, etc, etc and I'm like, "How the hell did this become the subject matter of a thread about the Jersey this guy just purchased?"

If you want to rant about what's wrong (or right even) with our country, GO TO A NEWS BLOG. I come here to ESCAPE that crap - not to let it permeate my life.

That's my .02

- Chris

I guess we agree to disagree, Chris. What is an "agenda" to you is to me a very real fear of having my life end years before it should due to legislation that will make me a prime candidate for refusal of rationed medical treatment based on health issues (kidney, heart, blood circulation) that I'm burdened with for the rest of whatever life I have to yet live.

To the sports topic at hand: The prices stated seem extremely steep to me, and I'd never pay them. Nonetheless, it's a free country, and, if you've got the money to spend, knock yourself out. As one poster said, most sports fans would think the rank and file members here are off their rocker for what we pay for GU memorabilia as much as some of us laugh at a guy spending 20 grand on a Sanchez jersey. Bottom line, what we choose to collect is our business, and no one else's. It's not up to us to evangelize other collectors and fans as to why they should accept our purchase decisions, and those who have the money and spend it in ways we don't understand or approve of have no need to educate us. There's still a lot out there to chase after, for those with means and those who are white collar or blue collar workers. Focus on that, not the sanity or lack thereof that a millionaire possesses for their purchase decisions.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[LastingsMilledge85]

There's a fine line between buying something you like and just crazy. 20k or 3k is outrageous for any jersey in my eyes. How much did it cost the team to buy a jersey and then you are getting it used. Yeah the use adds value to it, but not thousands of dollars. Yeah, if you bought those jerseys, that's a shame. Sanchez has more upside than Cutler, but doesn't like like he will be a solid QB for years to come. A wise investment would have been Stafford, Rodgers, etc.

[mbenga28]

I wonder if that Sanchez would have went for over 20K if it was placed on NBA Auctions?

[tjm5711]

This is the example of a Jay Cutler Jersey that was just sold on Ebay



http://cgi.ebay.com/Jay-Cutler-Chicago-Bears-Game-Team-Issued-Jersey_W0QQitemZ230411690553QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_ SM_Fan_Shop?hash=item35a59b6239

[tjm5711]

First off, there's no captain's patch ! Secondly, the stitching pattern along the front and sides(under the arms) is the style of the older jerseys from 2 or three years ago. The"6" is way too big for this Jersey" The elastic band along the waist is all wrong too! In the two pictures from a preseason game you will see there is no seam horizontally straight across the top of the jersey by the shoulders ! Down the sides are all different too ! Especially around the arm-pits. But there is a straight visible seam in the [jersey] that was featured in the forum"Show me your Chicago Bears stuff" where the owner acknowledged it! Then went and listed it on Ebay !

[tjm5711]

Check the Getty images ! Cutler never wore any jersey of that cut in any game, preseason or regular season. That is not a Game-used,Game-cut,or Game anything ! You can really see the difference in the upper shoulder of one of the pics. Cutler wore this same cut of jersey for EVERY game so far this year !

[platinum1]

This is the example of the fake Jay Cutler Jersey that was just sold on Ebay and deleted !



http://cgi.ebay.com/Jay-Cutler-Chicago-Bears-Game-Team-Issued-Jersey_W0QQitemZ230411690553QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_ SM_Fan_Shop?hash=item35a59b6239
Triplexxxsports posts often on the site maybe he can give us a little more info on the jersey.

[tjm5711]

See how it's a diagonal seam across the shoulder/upper chest area ! In the fake on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Jay-Cutler-Chicago-Bears-Game-Team-Issued-Jersey_W0QQitemZ230411690553QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_ SM_Fan_Shop?hash=item35a59b6239 it is straight across the chest, just under the NFL shield on the neck! This is an older design from 2005-06. Long before Cutler was a Bear ! This isn't even an authentic retail jersey ! It's an old jersey somebody with a sewing machine altered.

[platinum1]

Yes Triple XXX ! Rather than have this deleted(like you did before) please explain !
Welcome to the board TJM5711

[tjm5711]

Thank you Edgar ! Appreciate it ! I am fairly new to all this, but i am not new to honesty. I have been fortunate thus far in my endeavors. I just want to help prevent anybody wasting their hard earned money !!!!

[xpress34]

I guess we agree to disagree, Chris. What is an "agenda" to you is to me a very real fear of having my life end years before it should due to legislation that will make me a prime candidate for refusal of rationed medical treatment based on health issues (kidney, heart, blood circulation) that I'm burdened with for the rest of whatever life I have to yet live.

Dave M.
Chicago area

Dave -

I will 'break my rule' about Politics and such just this once, to say that I don't disagree with you - in fact, I fully support anyone who has an opinion and can back it up like you do when it comes to our country's politics and such...

My only issue - as I said before - is that I don't see ANY value on it permeating a SPORTS COLLECTING site...

My Baseball Collection has NOTHING to do with my Political or Religious Values and Beliefs and I don't think ANYONES Political or Religious Values and Beliefs have any thing to do with Sports Collecting or this Site in General.

As I said earlier, TOO MANY TIMES, I'll be reading a post and out of the blue there is some Politically or Religiously skewed RANT or Joke or Picture that has NOTHING to do with the original thread topic...

PLEASE, if you can, explain to me how that has ANY place on this board! My health is not as bad as yours, but I am a Disabled Vet and just got a State of Colorado rating for my shoulder that was jacked up in a Car Accident this past March, but I don't see where ANY of that has any Value or Place for me to bring it up or discuss it here.

My VERY Best Wishes for you and yours in Health and Happiness this Holiday Season...

- Chris

[TriplexXxSports]

Yes Triple XXX ! Rather than have this deleted(like you did before) please explain !


Up for bids is a 2009 Jay Cutler Game Issued home jersey. The jersey has all of the proper identifiers, and alterations made for Jay and the Chicago Bears. Double stitched tackle twill letters & numbers, custom cut hemmed sleeves and tail, the '09-50' swatch in the cowl, sewn Reebok Logo's on each sleeve, and the 'GSH' memorial affixed to the left sleeve. The Reebok jock tag on the front tail has been removed due to the alterations, and because this jersey lacks the team captain's patch it was most likely made for Jay to wear during the preseason.

What's the problem here?

[tjm5711]

Cutler has NEVER worn any jersey of this cut ! Read below !

[tjm5711]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Jay-Cutler-Chicago-Bears-Game-Team-Issued-Jersey_W0QQitemZ230411690553QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_ SM_Fan_Shop?hash=item35a59b6239

Here's the link and pictures again !

The truth is in the diagonal seam under the shoulder in the picture of Cutler with the towel ! The [jersey] on Ebay has a seam straight across the front chest. Cutler never wore this 2-3 year old style !

[TriplexXxSports]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Jay-Cutler-Chicago-Bears-Game-Team-Issued-Jersey_W0QQitemZ230411690553QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_ SM_Fan_Shop?hash=item35a59b6239

Here's the link and pictures again !

The truth is in the diagonal seam under the shoulder in the picture of Cutler with the towel ! The fake on Ebay has a seam straight across the front chest. Cutler never wore this 2-3 year old style !

I never stated it was worn......

[tjm5711]

It's not even game issued ! This is an old cut style ! It's not even an Authentic retail !

[TriplexXxSports]

I never stated it was worn......

And to add to that, where in the listing, or anywhere for that matter, did I even state it was stylematched?

It is exactly as stated. It is a Chicago Bears Jay Cutler Team Issued jersey.

The alterations made to the jersey are consistent with the alterations Jay has on his Game Worn jerseys. The hemmed waistline, cuffed sleeves.....

Where do you get off saying it is fake? Do you own a Cutler? Have you seen a Cutler?

Didn't think so.....

[tjm5711]

Here we have in the following order a picture of from each regualr season game cutler wore a blue home jersey ! NONE of them have a seam across the upper chest ! They all have diagonal seams undeneath the arm pit !

1.)vs Eagles 2.)vs Rams 3.)vs Cards 4.)vs. Lions 5.)vs. Steelers

[tjm5711]

Excuse me, but for $685, i'm sure the buyer was expecting the same cut jersey, the Bears QB wears !

[TriplexXxSports]

Excuse me, but for $685, i'm sure the buyer was expecting the same cut jersey, the Bears QB wears !

The buyer saw the same pictures in the listing, as well as the same description, along with 8 additional pictures of the jersey at their request.

If you have problems then contact me direct.

[tjm5711]

These are direct quotes from the Ebay listing !


" The jersey has all of the proper identifiers, and alterations made for Jay and the Chicago Bears."

Really ? It doesn't have the indentifier I mentioned !



"This is an actual game jersey directly from the Chicago Bears"

Actual game jersey from 2005 or'06. maybe 2007 ! One problem, Jay Cutler didn't play for the Bears then !

[ChrisCavalier]

Hello Tom,

While I am not responding to the jersey you reference in this thread, please note the following rule regarding posting here:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.

There were some comments you made in the thread that have been edited to allow for a focus on your observations about the jersey. However, please make sure to follow the rules in the future and, if warranted, provide your information in the form of an opinion. In addition, the forum is intended for educational purposes and a number of posts seemed to be going to a personal level. If there is something to be learned about the jersey that can help collectors than it will be allowed. However, please make sure that is the intent of the posts and things are not taken to a personal level.

Lastly, the purpose of this thread has seems to have been changed from its original purpose. In the future, if posted in accordance with the forum rules and is for eduactional and not personal reasons, it would likely be more appropriate to create a separate thread rather than changing the focus of an existing thread.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[tjm5711]

Ok Chris, no problem. I was trying to keep it off the personal level, but it kind of drifted that way. I appreciate you leaving my postings up, and think they will help buyers in the future ! Being new here, I didn't intentionally violate the rules, but if I did I apologize. Thanks again, and I appreciate your time !

[CollectGU]

The buyer saw the same pictures in the listing, as well as the same description, along with 8 additional pictures of the jersey at their request.

If you have problems then contact me direct.

I just read this thread. He does make a compelling case for this jersey not being issued for Cultler...

Dave

[otismalibu]

I have a couple of Sixers game worn jerseys that I'm customizing into Dr. J. jerseys. So now I can list them as Dr. J. game worn Sixers jerseys on eBay. Cool. I should be able to make out pretty well.

I'm going to start the bidding out at $1000, even though I paid under $50 for each of them. Future profit was in the back of my mind when I acquired them.

:D

[eisenreich8]

I have a couple of Sixers game worn jerseys that I'm customizing into Dr. J. jerseys. So now I can list them as Dr. J. game worn Sixers jerseys on eBay. Cool. I should be able to make out pretty well.

I'm going to start the bidding out at $1000, even though I paid under $50 for each of them. Future profit was in the back of my mind when I acquired them.

:D


LOL

[spartakid]

Triplexxx- You haven't really defended yourself. He pointed out that there was no captain's patch, but more importantly the different seams. You never gave proof to show that your jersey is issued. From all my experience in game used, game issued should be identical absent obviously use, and I can see how it may be without the captain's patch if it wasn't put on or something, but the difference in the seams seems (no pun intended) to be a pretty big issue. The pics he provided appear to back up his claim. Is there something we are missing?

[tjm5711]

Thank you Dave. I wouldn't put an opinion like that out there without it being backed up !


The other confusing thing is this:

TEAM-ISSUED or GAME-ISSUED--Ordered by a team and intended for game use--but not worn or used. These jerseys will have been team stock, part of the equipment room inventory, but may not have had player's names applied and will not have received the customization that a specific player may request.
GAME-READY--Completely ready for the player to use in game action, but not worn or used. These uniforms will have received the final customization that a player may request. These uniforms will often have been part of a player's uniform rotation, but for one reason or another never saw game action.
_____

That was taken from a posting on 12/2/09 by XXXsports on this forum about an Adrian Peterson game issued jersey.

My question(for all our educational purposes only) which definition does this jersey fit? I'm guessing "Team or Game-issued" But this is an older cut style !

Maybe there's another defintion for this one. Let's make up our own. "Semi-game issued,semi-game ready, throwback style !"

[ironmanfan]

I would like to see the term "game/team issued" eliminated frorm this hobby

[tjm5711]

I agree let's eliminate all these different names and definitions. In my opinion a jersey is either a game-cut ready for use, a retail authentic, or a knock-off from Asia.

Here are a few more pictures to illustrate the fact that no Bears players this year appear to be wearing the style of the aforementioned Cutler jersey. These are pictures of players from both sides of the ball. They all appear to have this diagonal seam along the upper shoulder side, not straight across.

My opinion(and that's all it is) is that The Ebay Cutler jersey is a game-issued jersey from 2006,07,or 08. Maybe the number "9" was simply turned over to make a six. The name plate was changed to that of "Cutler" and presto you have what appears to be a.................. Well we're not even sure what tis is supposed to be !

[skipcarayislegend]

I would like to see the term "game/team issued" eliminated frorm this hobby

I have to disagree with you on this. There are legitimate team/game issued jerseys out there. I've sold a number of actual, honest to goodness game issued jerseys, which I bought from the team myself, but were never used. There's simply no better or more accurate way to describe them if it's what they are.

I think I understand your point, however, which is that the real meaning of "game/team issued" has become devalued and twisted beyond recognition because of those who intentionally use it to misrepresent what they're selling. If you altered it in your basement, it's not team issued. If the team's seamstress altered it at your request and you don't work for the team, it's not team issued. If it's a conglomeration of real jersey parts and pieces created by someone not affiliated with the team, it isn't team issued. Etc, etc.

Personally I don't get all the confusion. If the team issued it and it was never used, it's team/game issued. Otherwise, it's likely either a forgery or being misrepresented. Seems to me the real challenge is knowing whether or not it actually originated from the team in its current state.

You can't eliminate the term because a handful of scoundrels like to play dumb.

[tjm5711]

And finally to support my last opinion. Here are two pictures of Robbie Gould from 2006. These are the older style(you can tell by the seam straight across the front of the upper chest). This is the same style of the Ebay Cutler. The third picture shows our friend Mr. Cutler. See how the "6" is basically a "9" turned right side up ! Not hard to imagine what may have happened now. Is it ?

[skipcarayislegend]

My opinion(and that's all it is) is that The Ebay Cutler jersey is a game-issued jersey from 2006,07,or 08. Maybe the number "9" was simply turned over to make a six. The name plate was changed to that of "Cutler" and presto you have what appears to be a.................. Well we're not even sure what tis is supposed to be !

If you're correct and those alterations were not made by or on behalf of the team, it's a forgery, assuming I'm being told that it originated from the Bears in its current condition. Never mind that it started out as an authentic team issued jersey. The alterations, if made by someone outside the Bears equipment room, negate the "issued" part, imo.

[legaleagle92481]

And finally to support my last opinion. Here are two pictures of Robbie Gould from 2006. These are the older style(you can tell by the seam straight across the front of the upper chest). This is the same style of the Ebay Cutler. The third picture shows our friend Mr. Cutler. See how the "6" is basically a "9" turned right side up ! Not hard to imagine what may have happened now. Is it ?

Well I doubt Cutler and Gould wear the same size jersey. Jay is 6'3 233 and Gould is 6' 185, that is a 3 inch, 50 pound difference. Does anyone know what size they each wear? I think that will answer the question of whether or not a Gould jersey was turned into a Cutler.

[tjm5711]

According to the Ebay listing:

"This is an actual game jersey directly from the Chicago Bears"

http://cgi.ebay.com/Jay-Cutler-Chicago-Bears-Game-Team-Issued-Jersey_W0QQitemZ230411690553QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_ SM_Fan_Shop?hash=item35a59b6239

It's really simple. I don't seem to see any Chicago Bears players wearing this style of jersey this year. There may be a player or two wearing it. But two things are true:

1.)Jay Cutler is never sen wearing this style.
2.)Jay cutler never played for the Bears when this style was widely used !

[tjm5711]

Well I doubt Cutler and Gould wear the same size jersey. Jay is 6'3 233 and Gould is 6' 185, that is a 3 inch, 50 pound difference. Does anyone know what size they each wear? I think that will answer the question of whether or not a Gould jersey was turned into a Cutler.



The simple fact is that this "year-size" tag 09-50 does not go with this jersey style. I have already stated that there appear to be no Bears players wearing this style in 2009. The tag was probably taken from another jersey. You couldn't leave the original "06-50"(if this is even a size 50) tag on there. Could you ? That would be too obvious !

[spartakid]

I would like to see the term "game/team issued" eliminated frorm this hobby

You might run into some opposition with Brian Borsch:D

[skipcarayislegend]

Why not just ask Triplexxx if it had a number and/or nameplate change? I know zilch about football jerseys but I'd guess that a number/nameplate switch would be easy to spot, no?

[tjm5711]

Triplexxx- You haven't really defended yourself. He pointed out that there was no captain's patch, but more importantly the different seams. You never gave proof to show that your jersey is issued. From all my experience in game used, game issued should be identical absent obviously use, and I can see how it may be without the captain's patch if it wasn't put on or something, but the difference in the seams seems (no pun intended) to be a pretty big issue. The pics he provided appear to back up his claim. Is there something we are missing?


"game-issued should be identical{to game used} absent obviously use."

Back to the definitions again. I also have been led to believe "game-issued" is the same thing as "game-used" minus the use. Definitely not the case here.

[tjm5711]

I think I understand your point, however, which is that the real meaning of "game/team issued" has become devalued and twisted beyond recognition because of those who intentionally use it to misrepresent what they're selling.

Perhaps the case here !




If you altered it in your basement, it's not team issued. If the team's seamstress altered it at your request and you don't work for the team, it's not team issued. If it's a conglomeration of real jersey parts and pieces created by someone not affiliated with the team, it isn't team issued. Etc, etc.

Personally I don't get all the confusion. If the team issued it and it was never used, it's team/game issued. Otherwise, it's likely either a forgery or being misrepresented. Seems to me the real challenge is knowing whether or not it actually originated from the team in its current state.

You can't eliminate the term because a handful of scoundrels like to play dumb.[/QUOTE]


I couldn't state this any better myself !

[BrewCrewSackers]

Yeah! Because 1 year makes a career, right?? DOUCH BAG!

[GarkoCollector]

Yeah! Because 1 year makes a career, right?? DOUCH BAG!

Does "douch" rhyme with "couch?"

[nickacs]

Does "douch" rhyme with "couch?"

http://www.criticallayouts.com/images/rsgallery/original/lmao-santa-ag1.gif

[sox83cubs84]

Dave -

I will 'break my rule' about Politics and such just this once, to say that I don't disagree with you - in fact, I fully support anyone who has an opinion and can back it up like you do when it comes to our country's politics and such...

My only issue - as I said before - is that I don't see ANY value on it permeating a SPORTS COLLECTING site...

My Baseball Collection has NOTHING to do with my Political or Religious Values and Beliefs and I don't think ANYONES Political or Religious Values and Beliefs have any thing to do with Sports Collecting or this Site in General.

As I said earlier, TOO MANY TIMES, I'll be reading a post and out of the blue there is some Politically or Religiously skewed RANT or Joke or Picture that has NOTHING to do with the original thread topic...

PLEASE, if you can, explain to me how that has ANY place on this board! My health is not as bad as yours, but I am a Disabled Vet and just got a State of Colorado rating for my shoulder that was jacked up in a Car Accident this past March, but I don't see where ANY of that has any Value or Place for me to bring it up or discuss it here.

My VERY Best Wishes for you and yours in Health and Happiness this Holiday Season...

- Chris

Chris:

To defend my comments, I'd have to launch into ANOTHER political commentary, and I don't think that's what you want to hear.;)

I'll let this go, and likewise will wish you joy and peace this Christmas and a quality 2010.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[TriplexXxSports]

Lets start at the beginning - The issue of the seam

As pointed out, the Cutler in question contained a chest seam where as the jerseys that Jay can be seen wearing in game footage from this year have the shoulder seams, or 'Broncos Cut', as I've heard them called.

Yes, but what is not mentioned is that the Bears used that style all the way up to this year, which can be seen on Getty throughout the 2008 season. In 2008 the Bears used both styles. 1 made from polyester (the Broncos Cut), and one from nylon (the one with the chest seam).

Anyone who knows, or deals in Chicago Bears game jerseys know that the Bears commonly recycle jerseys from previous seasons to use in the upcoming season. Some are tagged from previous years, some are left blank a fitted with a tag for the corresponding year, and some are not even tagged at all.

When they drafted Jay, the Bears were still using the 2 different styles in their rotation. Based on game footage it is evident that so far this season they have not used the Nylon jerseys (chest seam). However, if the team was undecided which style they were going to wear before the '09 season started, why would a team who is known for recycling jerseys not make up jerseys for a player out of both sets if they have extras? If they have extras laying around, they will use what they have before they place an order for more...."Hey we have a couple extra cut jerseys from last year that Jay could wear, stitch them up so we have some extras for him...." Is that so far out of the question?

It is unknown when the decision was made to only use the "Broncos Cut" in 2009. Based on the history inside the locker room, my guess would be that it was very close to the start of the season, AFTER the 2 styles had been made and/or recycled for '09. This plays reason as to the absence of the captain's patch. If they were still undecided or if Jay didn't like that cut/size, they would decide when the season came around and adjust the jerseys that were to be used accordingly. With Jay being new, it is not out of the question to assume he was prepared jerseys of each style for him to use. No need to fit it with a patch if it was going to be an extra, used in preseason, or not at all.

The comments about the number being flipped upside down or a possible name change

The name and numbers were never altered or changed. There is no evidence that this jersey ever had a different number or nameplate. I went over the jersey inside and out both under natural light and the black light. Nothing.

The comment about the numbers being the wrong size

That is completely false. The numbers were the correct size and were compared side by side to another Chicago Bears game worn jersey. The placement was correct, the stitching was consistent between the 2 jersey, and all measurements between the 2 were spot on. The letter spacing and font on the nameplate were also correct.

Comments about being a retail, or a mock up authentic

Again, that is completely false. If you are collecting game used items and don't know the difference in the materials, threads, alterations made, numbers, etc. between a retail, authentic, and gamers, you need to give up collecting. I have been collecting for just about 7 years and have handled hundreds of each. I do know the difference, and trust me when I say that there is a BIG difference when it comes to Bears jerseys.

Comments made about deliberately pushing fakes (the Dr. J comments)

In no way shape or form did I mislead the description in that listing. I stated EXACTLY what the jersey was. I did not hide information, I did not leave 'loop holes' as I heard it called, or any such statements. I offered any and all information that I had about the jersey and even asked people to contact me for additional photos and questions.

And to knock me because I chose to collect with the possibility of profit on potential resale......come on! You collect for your reasons, I collect for mine, but that doesn't constitute cheap shots.

On the topic of misleading loop holes in terminology that is used in this hobby...

We all know that everyone has their own interpretations of Game Issued, Team Issued, Game Ready, etc. I too have my own opinion as to each term and this is the guideline I follow when describing items that are in my possession. This is taken from Jim Yackel's definitions, as well as some of my own wording based on my experiences. You may agree or disagree, but these are the guidelines I collect and sell by and I highlighted some very key points.....

GAME-WORN or GAME-USED: Any uniform (jersey, pants, socks, helmet, hat, etc.) or
equipment (shoes/cleats, gloves, towels, wrist bands, etc.) worn by a player who is on
the team's active roster, gets dressed for the game & takes his place on the field or ice
is game-worn or game-used. Even if that player is a back-up or reserve who spends the
entire game on the side, his uniform is game-worn/used because he was on the sideline,
on the active roster & in an able-bodied position to participate in on-field plays. This
applies to relief pitchers, back-up goalies, back-up quarterbacks, or any player who is
activated & dressed for the game but never spends time in actual game play.
Fortunately, most players who dress for games will participate, even if minimally. And,
most game-worn/game-used uniforms will show some evidence to that effect.

GAME-READY: Preceding the definition above, these uniforms are completely ready for
the player to use in game action, but not worn or used. These uniforms will have
received the final customization that a player may request (added or shortened length,
customized sleeves, additional hemming & alterations, etc). These uniforms will
have been part of a player's normal uniform rotation, but for one reason or another
never saw game action.

TEAM-ISSUED or GAME-ISSUED: These items may also be referred to as
PROFESSIONAL MODELS. This includes uniforms or equipment that has been ordered
by a team, delivered to the team, & intended for game use but not worn or used. These
items will have been part of the team stock, part of the equipment room inventory, but
may lack the final customizations. Examples include uniforms that have not had player's
names applied or the customization that a specific player may request, blank jerseys, or
jerseys that remain as a generic cut.

GAME-CUT or PRO-CUT: Also referred to as "AUTHENTIC", a term often used by NFL
Auctions. This refers to jerseys or uniforms that are commonly the same size or cut that
a specific player would wear & tagged in the same manner. These jerseys should not be
confused with Game-Ready, as they may or may not have received the final
customization that a specific player desires nor do these jerseys originate from a team's
equipment room. These jerseys go directly from the manufacturer to the market for
resale purposes.

Based on the guidelines that I go by, the Cutler was described appropriately. This jersey did have the alterations made to it that are consistent - the name and numbers applied, the jersey was hemmed at the tail, the sleeves were cuffed with the addition of elastic, and was fully ready for game use.

I could have very easily described this as a GAME READY jersey, but that would be falsely describing it since I cannot prove that it was ever in the teams normal uniform rotation. Again as it was pointed out Jay has not worn this style of jersey in a professional game. I can however prove that this is a CHICAGO BEARS GAME ISSUED JERSEY, and why it was listed as such. The numbers were the correct size and material. The stitching was correct, the alterations were done correctly, the placement of the letters and numbers are consistent with other known examples that I have in my possession, the jersey is the correct size as indicated by the tag, and measure up appropriately, etc. These tyoe os jersey only originate from the teams inventory stock.

With all that being said I guess I will leave it at that. Take it as you will.

[otismalibu]

So you didn't add the name or number or have the Bears (or their customizer) add the name and numbers for you?

One time, I bought a jersey directly from the Sixers. I asked for an Iverson and they customized a blank game jersey and sent it to me. It was not the size that Iverson wore, but it was a rookie year jersey style, attributed by the team. IMO, it was not a game-issue jersey.

[TriplexXxSports]

So you didn't add the name or number or have the Bears (or their customizer) add the name and numbers for you?

One time, I bought a jersey directly from the Sixers. I asked for an Iverson and they customized a blank game jersey and sent it to me. It was not the size that Iverson wore, but it was a rookie year jersey style, attributed by the team. IMO, it was not a game-issue jersey.


Nope, the jersey was 100% as is when I originally purchased it. I did not call, or ask to have this made, nor am I 'customizing' jerseys in my basement.

[otismalibu]

Nope, the jersey was 100% as is when I originally purchased it. I did not call, or ask to have this made, nor am I 'customizing' jerseys in my basement.

Gotcha.

I had to ask. There's a couple guys on eBay (one football, one hoops) that I'm pretty sure just customize blanks, then sell as gamers. Well, there's probably more than a couple of people on eBay doing this :)

[TriplexXxSports]

Gotcha.

I had to ask. There's a couple guys on eBay (one football, one hoops) that I'm pretty sure just customize blanks, then sell as gamers. Well, there's probably more than a couple of people on eBay doing this :)


Understandably so. I have read the thread about the Teddy Pat's jersey...I am aware of that problem out there.

I DO think you could have addressed the matter to me a little more respectfully than you did in your original post about the Dr.J jerseys.

[otismalibu]

I DO think you could have addressed the matter to me a little more respectfully than you did in your original post about the Dr.J jerseys.

Hey, I put a smiley at the end of it.

It's not like this board has no shady characters. I'm just trying to keep track.

[tjm5711]

Wow, and now we have even more definitions that are longer ! The Bears hardly used the old cut in 2008 either ! Everything stated was according to TripleXXX sports. He uses no proof or pictures to back up his claims. Like I have done in numerous occasions earlier in this thread. The facts are plain,simple,and clear:

1.)Game issued/cut is simply a jersey exactly the same as a game used(maybe minus a few personal alterations) minus the game use !

2.)Jay Cutler has only worn the new "Bronco-Cut", And never wore the older style! Period !!

So if Jay never wore this older style, how can this be a game/team issue or whatever you want to call it ?

Instead of getting lost in verbage and long definitions, If you keep this simple, you will see this jersey is in my opinion far from what it is claimed to be !

[clinton2828]

can we close this thread it is going no where.

i am not sure when this thread turned into some "social court" where people have to defend what they spend there money on.

lets all just worry about our own collections and investments and help to improve the industry.

this thread dose neither.

[TriplexXxSports]

Wow, and now we have even more definitions that are longer ! The Bears hardly used the old cut in 2008 either ! Everything stated was according to TripleXXX sports. He uses no proof or pictures to back up his claims. Like I have done in numerous occasions earlier in this thread. The facts are plain,simple,and clear:

1.)Game issued/cut is simply a jersey exactly the same as a game used(maybe minus a few personal alterations) minus the game use ! This is your OPINION on these terms. I have a different opinion of these terms and I justified my definitions above.

2.)Jay Cutler has only worn the new "Bronco-Cut", And never wore the older style! Period !! - Why does that instantly mean that there were not jerseys made up for him before the season even started or the team went exclusively with the 'Bronco's Cut'?

So if Jay never wore this older style, how can this be a game/team issue or whatever you want to call it ? Beacuse it is a team jersey that was part of the Bears inventory at the time the jersey was altered for Jay - Most likely before the season even started.

Instead of getting lost in verbage and long definitions, If you keep this simple, you will see this jersey is in my opinion far from what it is claimed to be ! Exactly - your opinion. But you are not a certified Bears jersey authenticator, nor are any of us, so agree to disagree, they are only our OPINIONS. Your opinion does not offer any CONCRETE evidence that the Cutler is not what I stated it to be. You make your claim, and I make mine. We can go around in these circles for days, but in the end it is all just OPINION.

You wanted some pics....here are pics from weeks 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8. I think its enough to verify my claim about the seams and to prove your comment about "hardly using them' to be incorrect.

[34swtns]

can we close this thread it is going no where.

i am not sure when this thread turned into some "social court" where people have to defend what they spend there money on.

lets all just worry about our own collections and investments and help to improve the industry.

this thread dose neither.

That's your opinion and yours alone. Don't pretend to speak for the rest of us here.

Great spelling, too.

[TriplexXxSports]

That's your opinion and yours alone. Don't pretend to speak for the rest of us here.

Great spelling, too.

:eek:

[tjm5711]

Here are pictures of Jay Cutler from each year with the Broncos 2006,07,08.

As you can see he wears The "Bronco-cut" each year !

Why on earth would the Bears make a separate(older cut) jersey for someone that obviously wears the "Broncos-Cut?"

Yes, I am not a Bears Authenticator, but neither are you my friend. Nor are you affiliated with the Chicago Bears in any way.

[tjm5711]

You also use several pictures to show 4 different players. Here are pictures showing many more wearing the "Broncos-cut". I simply said the Bears hardly used that cut any more. I never said they didn't use them at all ! I think one of those pictures is of the same Urlacher in your collection posted on your website ! You can take a look at that and physically see the cut for yourself !

[TriplexXxSports]

You also use several pictures to show 4 different players. Here are pictures showing many more wearing the "Broncos-cut". I simply said the Bears hardly used that cut any more. I never said they didn't use them at all ! 8 out of 16 games with player wearing the older cut is a little more than 'hardly used'. I could keep going through weeks 7,6,5,4,3,2,1, and preseason and and I bet they would be worn in those games too. I also stated earlier that THEY USED BOTH STYLES IN 2008.
I think one of those pictures is of the same Urlacher in your collection posted on your website ! You can take a look at that and physically see the cut for yourself !I never posted a pic of Urlacher

And, what Cutler wore at Denver has NO affect on what the team tells him he is going to wear while at Chicago. He will wear what the Chicago Bears provided for him. As do all the other players.

[xpress34]

Chris:

To defend my comments, I'd have to launch into ANOTHER political commentary, and I don't think that's what you want to hear.;)

I'll let this go, and likewise will wish you joy and peace this Christmas and a quality 2010.

Dave M.
Chicago area

Dave -

I hope it's better than how 2009 is closing out! Just had my 16 year old come home with his lip pierced - just to tick off his mom - and then it came to light that he has been smoking for the past 4 years... yes, BOTH types of tobacco! That said, I'll persevere and move on into 2010... :rolleyes:

And to think I was going to give my Collection to him when he turns 18 to pay for college or whatever... I'm re-thinking that now!

The very best to you and yours this holiday season and into 2010 as well... I'm sure we'll have plenty to agree about, disagree about and to agree to disagree about in 2010!

- Chris

[tjm5711]

Lip pierced ? YIKES ! Interesting how you planned on giving him your collection to pay for his college. That's a great plan ! Hopefully, he'll shake-out of his funk ! BOTH types of tobacco ? Now, that's scary ! I wish you the best of luck on that ! And they thought we were bad when we were kids ! LOL

[Capital-Sports]

Well Chris I can tell you I have been there before. Well actually, I was the juvenile. lol. Though I never did get my lip pierced.

But according to the new GI Bill that was passed August 2009, you can pass on your education benefits to your family if you wanted.

Though there are stipulations with it.

You should look into it, as it can save you from selling your collection.

Mark

[cohibasmoker]

Well Chris I can tell you I have been there before. Well actually, I was the juvenile. lol. Though I never did get my lip pierced.

But according to the new GI Bill that was passed August 2009, you can pass on your education benefits to your family if you wanted.

Though there are stipulations with it.

You should look into it, as it can save you from selling your collection.

Mark

Chris,

This may or may NOT be solid advice. Not sure of the GI bill thing (stipulations) nor am I sure of your age or if you are in the Medicare and/or Medicare system but getting rid of one's assets now may be wise thing before the Congress of CHANGE gets it. Why would I make such statements?

If one is considering estate planning, the current healthcare bill may be a good start to see just where we're going. Currently in America, Medicare is an option - you can either accept it or not accept it - it's very simple. Under the new bill, Americans lose that option and, if you don't have Insurance, you would be MANDATED to get into the Medicare system. This now allows the Federal government access to your personal records (financial and medical) and the ability to seize your assets.

That's just one aspect of the 2800 page bill the Democrats are pushing through. I'm sure the gang of CHANGE will have other sections of the bill to get your "STUFF". So, it may be better to dispose of your property the way you deem fit rather than have the Federal Government take it.

Hey, don't take my word for it, read it yourself.

http://www.patriotfiles.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110757

Jim

PS: Sorry if my thread stopped people from escaping from the world around them but there isn't any escaping from the "gang of change".

[clinton2828]

34,

you started this thread by bashing another collectors purchase decision and then started crying in another thread because you could not afford to outbid someone for a ronde barber jersey.

I don’t see what you are doing to help this board. Don’t you have something better to do than to critique others buying decisions and complain about others wiling to pay more for items than you.

[tjm5711]

34,

you started this thread by bashing another collectors purchase decision and then started crying in another thread because you could not afford to outbid someone for a ronde barber jersey.

I don’t see what you are doing to help this board. Don’t you have something better to do than to critique others buying decisions and complain about others wiling to pay more for items than you.



Let me tell you something about "34 Sweetness." He is the main reason I am in this hobby ! He has taught me an invaluable amount, and is an extremely honest and good person. I refuse to sit here and watch him get bashed for starting a thread that addresses the crazy high prices charged for unproven players ! 20 Grand for a guy who just played a couple games ! Come on, He's right on time with his assessment.

As far as the Barber Jersey your talking about. Well he has good reason to bitch about that ! Some clown bid it up to $1600 with 5 days left on NFL Auctions. We're talking about Ronde "Freakin" Barber here ! It's people like that and certain dealers who drive the prices up for things we buy ! "34 Sweetness" reflects a common sense viewpoint of those of us who aren't made of money. We buy these overpriced items, and the if we go to sell them on Ebay or something, we get torched on the money we lose !

I totally respect your opinion sir, and really don't wish to engage you in a debate. But you ask what "34 Sweetness" has done to help this board? I can personally attest to what he has done to help my growth and development in this hobby ! I learned a lot in a very short time thanks to this man ! he is EXTREMELY informed about game-used jerseys. Thus in my opinion, I believe what he has to say is extremely valid! And i refuse to sit here and watch him get bashed for expressing his honest and open opinion !

[34swtns]

34,

you started this thread by bashing another collectors purchase decision and then started crying in another thread because you could not afford to outbid someone for a ronde barber jersey.

I don’t see what you are doing to help this board. Don’t you have something better to do than to critique others buying decisions and complain about others wiling to pay more for items than you.



Sheriff. You make me laugh. Thanks for the giggle.

Tom, thanks for the props, but it's best to let this one go.
One thing we all know is that you can't argue with people who have zero common sense. They're not operating from the same plane that we are. They don't think rationally like we do so arguing with them is a waste of your time.

[tjm5711]

They're really not props Rick! It's the truth, and I think it's absolutely wrong to go after somebody who is making an extremely valid point that I would firmly agree with whether I knew your ugly mug or not ! LOL I am of course guessing since I've never seen your mug ! Anyways, in my opinion $5,000 should be the ceiling for any game used jersey from the past 20 years. Unless of course it was from a Super Bowl,record breaking performance,or is of a deceased or it's one of a handful of guys(Payton Manning,Favre,Drew Brees,etc). To charge $9,000 for guys like Adrian Peterson(who is awesome don't get me wrong) id ridiculous ! Since you brought up "Common Sense" I think that term applies here ! If more people had common sense and not pay these prices, dealers would have no choice but to lower their prices(which some are making ridiculous profits on and will remain nameless. I don't want to lose my privlege of buying from them by calling them out ! LOL). And if guys like that moron who bid your Barber up had more common sense we'd all be for the better 1

[gingi79]

... I think it's absolutely wrong to go after somebody who is making an extremely valid point that I would firmly agree with...!

...Anyways, in my opinion $5,000 should be the ceiling for any game used jersey from the past 20 years.....

....To charge $9,000 for guys like Adrian Peterson(who is awesome don't get me wrong) id ridiculous..... !

....Since you brought up "Common Sense" I think that term applies here ! If more people had common sense and not pay these prices, dealers would have no choice but to lower their prices(which some are making ridiculous profits on and will remain nameless. I don't want to lose my privlege of buying from them by calling them out ! LOL)......

.....And if guys like that moron who bid your Barber up had more common sense we'd all be for the better 1.....

I normally leave people to their own opinions but if you read your slanderous comments towards Triple XXX and then your backup of Sweetness, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Reading through your opinions has perturbed me and as is my right, I am going to explain why and hope you calm down before you cost someone money with your angry name calling Opinions-as-fact and they sue you.

People who walk around thinking everyone cares what their opinions are usually isn't used to people listening. The fact you need to end every sentence with an exclamation point means you are yelling at all of us to listen to you. When Triple XXX gave you an explaination that is not only plausible but shows the very common sense you seem to believe you have, you don't listen you just keep yelling from your soapbox.

Is it entirely possible the Bears had these made up, Jay didn't like them and only used the new cut? IT SURE IS. He says he bought it from the team, gave valid reasons why it is what he says it is and you can't admit you could be very, very wrong.

Lastly, if I could sell a jersey for a million dollars or I could buy it for a million dollars, good for me. None of your business, no one cares how you feel about it and please get down off your soapbox before you contribute to the already declining atmosphere on the board.

Remember, while these are all my opinions, they are also rooted in concrete facts and unwavering logic. You are free to agree with me or be wrong. :cool:

[tjm5711]

Talking out of both sides of my mouth ? How so ? Both issues are completely unrelated !!!!!!!!!!!!! Before you psychoanalyze my use of explanations, you need to get of your soap box, and out of your fantasy world !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Somebody's going to sue me ????? Get real !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're just trying to start crap, and do the same thing you accuse me of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So buzz off, and go bother sombody else !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tjm5711]

And since when did these forums become a place for personal attacks ? That's where the true slander lies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In my whole dialogue with XXX Sports, i did not attack him personally and nor did he to me. I gave my opinion of the jersey, and he gave his on my qualifications or lack there of to make those opinions. And your comment" no one cares how you feel about it." Who are you to speak for everyone on here ? How do you know what people care to read. You are way out of line making statements like that ! And when did I engage in "name-calling opinions" ? You and Clinton2828 are the only two making personal attacks on here ! You need to check yourself !!! Worry about what you write before you start pointing fingers and name calling ! And if my opinions "perturb" you? Too bad ! And how are your statements "rooted in concrete facts and unwavering logic?" Whose logic ? Yours ! What facts ? All I read in your post there were your negative attacks on me that are contributing to the "declining atmosphere of this board !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!(some extra explanation points for you !!!!!!!)

[cohibasmoker]

Hey guys, I saw this jersey on eBay and since we have Bears collectors on this forum, I was wondering if someone could identify this jersey for me. Is it a sample, team-issued or what? I've seen several of these jerseys on eBay and I was wondering what the deal was with them.

Note the Wilson tagging? The tagging dates the jersey to August of 1992.

Any help would be appreciated,

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130354114506&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[TriplexXxSports]

Hello Tom,

While I am not responding to the jersey you reference in this thread, please note the following rule regarding posting here:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.

There were some comments you made in the thread that have been edited to allow for a focus on your observations about the jersey. However, please make sure to follow the rules in the future and, if warranted, provide your information in the form of an opinion. In addition, the forum is intended for educational purposes and a number of posts seemed to be going to a personal level. If there is something to be learned about the jersey that can help collectors than it will be allowed. However, please make sure that is the intent of the posts and things are not taken to a personal level.

Lastly, the purpose of this thread has seems to have been changed from its original purpose. In the future, if posted in accordance with the forum rules and is for eduactional and not personal reasons, it would likely be more appropriate to create a separate thread rather than changing the focus of an existing thread.

Thank you for your cooperation.

TJM,

All of your slanderous quotes and accusations were removed by the mods. It was only after I provided my opinion with documentation did things become 'opinion' based between us. But to say that you did not toss 'uncalled for' comments out there is untrue, that's why the mods edited half your posts in this thread.

[TriplexXxSports]

Hey guys, I saw this jersey on eBay and since we have Bears collectors on this forum, I was wondering if someone could identify this jersey for me. Is it a sample, team-issued or what? I've seen several of these jerseys on eBay and I was wondering what the deal was with them.

Note the Wilson tagging? The tagging dates the jersey to August of 1992.

Any help would be appreciated,

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130354114506&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Retail

[GarkoCollector]

I thought garbage wasn't supposed to be knee deep until Christmas morning.

[tjm5711]

TJM,

All of your slanderous quotes and accusations were removed by the mods. It was only after I provided my opinion with documentation did things become 'opinion' based between us. But to say that you did not toss 'uncalled for' comments out there is untrue, that's why the mods edited half your posts in this thread.

You are incorrect ! The only things removed by the mods were your references to my first and last name, and mine to you! There were no slanderous quotes !

[TriplexXxSports]

Man, this thread DID turn into a........

[TriplexXxSports]

This is the example of a Jay Cutler Jersey that was just sold on Ebay



http://cgi.ebay.com/Jay-Cutler-Chicago-Bears-Game-Team-Issued-Jersey_W0QQitemZ230411690553QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_ SM_Fan_Shop?hash=item35a59b6239


Took out the word 'FAKE'

[gingi79]

Talking out of both sides of my mouth ? How so ? Both issues are completely unrelated !!!!!!!!!!!!! Before you psychoanalyze my use of explanations, you need to get of your soap box, and out of your fantasy world !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Somebody's going to sue me ????? Get real !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're just trying to start crap, and do the same thing you accuse me of !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So buzz off, and go bother sombody else !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sigh. Merry Christmas. I simply cannot spend my day explaining why a grown man incapable of writing without dozens of exclamation points doesn't mean he's right. So I'm going to dumb this down so you get the point and maybe move on instead of taking over someones thread with inane and half cocked comments and accusations. Re-read Chris' thread about contacting people about their items before wrongly blasting them.


Talking out of both sides of my mouth ? How so ? Both issues are completely unrelated

"I refuse to sit here and watch him get bashed for starting a thread that addresses the crazy high prices charged for unproven players ! 20 Grand for a guy who just played a couple games ! Come on, He's right on time with his assessment. I can personally attest to what he has done to help my growth and development in this hobby ! I learned a lot in a very short time thanks to this man ! he is EXTREMELY informed about game-used jerseys. Thus in my opinion, I believe what he has to say is extremely valid! And i refuse to sit here and watch him get bashed for expressing his honest and open opinion !"

Sweetness is a great collector, full of knowledge and I am sure a fine upstanding citizen. But you sat here and bashed someone who sold what looks to be an authentic game/team issued item without so much as asking the guy why he says it is game issued! Triple XXX is EXTREMELY informed as well and his opinion on these items is just as valid and worthy of listening to as Sweetness. Oh and lets borrow your comment to sum up why you are talking out of both sides of your mouth except this time it's about Triple XXX instead of 34
"i refuse to sit here and watch him get bashed for expressing his honest and open opinion !"


Before you psychoanalyze my use of explanations, you need to get of your soap box, and out of your fantasy world !!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are right. People who can't afford to overpay for jerseys and whine about it are in a much better sense of reality. Just like people who can't spell or express dissenting opinions without facts or the absence of !!!!! are always right. Or not.

Oh and if your opinion was seen by a collector who would explain in court that they didn't buy an item you blasted as fake and it cost a seller money, that is Slander. As in you will be sued for your opinions written as facts which are wrong and financially costly to another person. If you stopped writing long enough to read the sellers response, I'd think you offer an apology.

Now, if only Chris would read your entire, unmodified posts entirely within this thread, maybe you'd understand why !!!!!!! aren't enhancing this board.

[cohibasmoker]

Retail


XXX - Thanks for the opinion. I've seen a bunch of Bears jerseys on eBay that were similar to the Singletary and I was wondering, since they had year tags on them, perhaps they were at least team-issued. Glad I didn't buy it. Someone paid $150.00 for a retail jersey.

Jim

[tjm5711]

XXX, I'm really done with all the debating ! You made your points and I made mine. I will agree to put an end to it as long as it goes both ways ! I will state one last opinion though ! LOL

In my opinion XXXSports is a very legitimate dealer/collector. I have seen the items on his website, and he has some very real and great items ! I merely had an issue with one, and as far as I'm concerned it's done !


Merry Christmas !!!!!

[TriplexXxSports]

Thank you Edgar ! Appreciate it ! I am fairly new to all this, but i am not new to honesty. I have been fortunate thus far in my endeavors. I just want to help prevent anybody wasting their hard earned money !!!!


Wasn't this one "ON FAKE JAY CUTLER JERSEYS"......

[tjm5711]

I also forgot to mention XXXSports has come highly recommended to me by some reputable contacts I have in this hobby ! Enough said !

[tjm5711]

Wasn't this one "ON FAKE JAY CUTLER JERSEYS"......

Do you really want to keep this up ? I'm trying to put an end to all this !

[TriplexXxSports]

XXX, I'm really done with all the debating ! You made your points and I made mine. I will agree to put an end to it as long as it goes both ways ! I will state one last opinion though ! LOL

In my opinion XXXSports is a very legitimate dealer/collector. I have seen the items on his website, and he has some very real and great items ! I merely had an issue with one, and as far as I'm concerned it's done !


Merry Christmas !!!!!

Agreed! DONE! Welcome to the board TJM!

[both-teams-played-hard]

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2677/daysofourlives.jpg (http://www.both-teams-played-hard.com/home.html)

[tjm5711]

Good deal ! No hard feelings ! I am not replying anymore to Gingi 79's ridiculous posts. All this is over ! I'm done justifying myself to people like that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tjm5711]

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2677/daysofourlives.jpg (http://www.both-teams-played-hard.com/home.html)

Thanks, that is awesome ! I needed that laugh !

[nyjetsfan14]

Folks would be doing themselves a disservice if they are think that all football team issued jerseys should and would match up exactly with what was worn by a player in specific games. Often times players have jerseys issued in different sizes and cuts for just about any possible scenario to include: weather conditions, different equipment worn, etc... As it pertains to Jets, I know certain players have as many as 3 or 4 different sizes issued and ready for use with varied cuts as well. This would include recycled jerseys from previous years that could exhibit traits/styles not currently used. Players have worn different sizes and cuts within the same season but many times those issued jerseys with the varied sizes and cuts might never get worn. That does not mean that those jerseys were not made for and issued to a said player for their possible use. I hope this information is useful to collectors. Merry Christmas and happy collecting to all.

[gingi79]

Good deal ! No hard feelings ! I am not replying anymore to Gingi 79's ridiculous posts. All this is over ! I'm done justifying myself to people like that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good job trying to take the high road with another personal attack. I'd expect you to have been banned by now but I am sure Chris is busy with the holiday and all.

You'd need a point beside hearsay to justify and believe me you have yet to make anything more than innuendo and childish retorts.

How about instead of stewing over the fact you were caught wrongly accusing someone of misconduct, you should apologize to him instead? or is that too much to expect in the holiday season?

[tjm5711]

Re:comments made by Gingi79

The issue with me and XXXsports is done ! You can read that below ! Who do you think you are, telling me to apologize ? Mind your own business and worry about yourself ! Or you will be the one getting banned !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[34swtns]

Seriously.........fight's over.

The rest of you kids.......back to your homes......nothing to see here.

[TriplexXxSports]

Folks would be doing themselves a disservice if they are think that all football team issued jerseys should and would match up exactly with what was worn by a player in specific games. Often times players have jerseys issued in different sizes and cuts for just about any possible scenario to include: weather conditions, different equipment worn, etc... As it pertains to Jets, I know certain players have as many as 3 or 4 different sizes issued and ready for use with varied cuts as well. This would include recycled jerseys from previous years that could exhibit traits/styles not currently used. Players have worn different sizes and cuts within the same season but many times those issued jerseys with the varied sizes and cuts might never get worn. That does not mean that those jerseys were not made for and issued to a said player for their possible use. I hope this information is useful to collectors. Merry Christmas and happy collecting to all.

Took me 3 pages or so to try and say this....:D Well stated and you are spot on with your assessment.

[TriplexXxSports]

Seriously.........fight's over.

The rest of you kids.......back to your homes......nothing to see here.


What if we live in the dog house and only have stinky jerseys to curl up with....;)

[TriplexXxSports]

......How about instead of stewing over the fact you were caught wrongly accusing someone of misconduct, you should apologize to him instead? or is that too much to expect in the holiday season?

Thank you sir, but there is no need for an apology and I appreciate your thoughts. Opinions vary, and that's what keeps us on our toes. Although it did get heated, I enjoy the debates. I may not have agreed with TJM's assessments, but in the grand scheme of things, he did provide validity for his "opinion". Some of the comments may have been rash, IMO, but when you feel strongly about something as we do around here, it happens. No different with religion or politics, and I look forward to more...:D

Its the Holidays and I wish you all the best moving forward into the New Year.

[tjm5711]

First off RE: nyjetsfan14's comments:

Very well stated, and you make very good points which would be hard to disagree with. I give you tremendous credit for posting something "level-headed" and very rational in the middle of our little firestorm there !

Re: Triplexxx's last comments:

You are proving you are a class-act. It was a good debate, and it did get a bit crazy at times. But we kept our main focus on the jersey and validity of opinions. Yes, things did tend to get a bit negative, but for the whole length of our discussion they stayed off of a personal level. Which is the way Chris' post about the rules informed me to keep it. Over the last page or two parties that were not involved in our discussion decided to pass moral and personal judgements regarding me. There's really no need for that on here. I really think there are better things for people like that to do with their time. I'm all for constructive remarks regarding our hobby. But personal assumptions,judgements, and attacks about somebody you don't know the first things about are ignorant to say the least!

Anyways, None of my remarks were meant to be slanderous. In retrospect, i agree a few could have been taken that way. But, I will say again that I never intended to degrade TripleXXX's reputation as a whole, just the jersey. Because from what i have seen he is a very vaild and authentic dealer/collector with several great items on his website I would love to have in my collection !

[ChrisCavalier]

Hey guys, thanks for making an effort to try to turn this thread around and it seems that some useful information came out of it. Shall we call it a day?

Happy holidays!

[suicide_squeeze]

This was a heated redirected thread that I would have added to had I been able to.

Trying to place a value on a gamer from an unproven player, some opinions were given that they thought it was excessive and bad judgement to drop so much coin on an item like that.

Others felt that the dollar amount, especially if the collector could afford it without hesitation, is insignificant if the item is a highly coveted item to the person who obviously has the means and desire to own it.

After yesterdays play-off win, with the possibility still remaining of Sanchez winning the Super Bowl his first year in the NFL......I was wondering if some of you guys still feel so strongly about the $20,000 "snafu" discussed in paying so much for his first NFL gamer?

To me, the item was a cool item regardless of his tough year. He is obviously a competitor who has the potential of being something big. It is a one-of-a-kind piece that could end up being worth a fortune, simply because it's a New York team. But on it's own merit, it's a major "first" in the spodt, and for the player. Historic pieces, "first's" and "last's" of a player who ended up being a Hall of Famer....they can reach some fairly crazy lofty values.

And what value would you place on a first-ever game used NFL jersey by the guy who won the SECOND Super Bowl for the Jets.....taking the reigns from the one and only Joe Namath? I'll bet there are a few New York faithfuls out there that would drop a $100k bomb on an item like this one, should that happen. A first ever game used Jets jersey from the year he began his career, and won the Super Bowl? Wow, nice.

I believe Dan Marino was the only other guy that comes to mind that had that opportunity. But he ran into the Montana express.

I know.....lot's of "if's" and "maybe's". But.....the chance does exist at this moment in time. And if nothing else, that $20,000 investment is looking like a guy who has suddenly gotten hot at the craps table, and is leaving all of those chips ride as he's shaking the dice for his next roll.

Maybe he craps out...we'll see.

[tjm5711]

$20,000 is way too much for that jersey. ( A passer rating of 63.0, 20 interceptions) If the Jets lose next week He will be another footnote to the season. The Sid Luckman jersey pictured went for $40,000 in an Auction a while back. You mean to tell me this guy's jersey is worth half that ? No way ! Yes, he played well yesterday, but let's face it the Jets are where they are because of that great Defense. And Sanchez's success is fueled by that solid ground game. I'm not saying he might not develop into a good QB. But, would if he tanks next year ? He could be out of the league within a couple seasons. Then how much would this be worth in that hostile New York market? The Luckman is a piece of history, about 70 years old and from a QB who won multiple titles. That Sanchez is worth $5K even on the JO price scale. No more than $1500 tops on the open/Ebay market.

But, a few people on here will rip me apart for saying that an item is overpriced. Value and price should be somewhat close in my opinion. And true people can buy or sell items for what they want. But from a buyer's standpoint: Why pay an overly inflated price for something? Don't worry, I'm sure they'll be coming out of the wood work to answer that question for us real soon ! LOL

[allstarsplus]

I'm not sure there is any one person on this board that can look in the mirror and admit to themselves that every GU piece they've ever purchased will (at least) return the money that they spent on it.

If you can, you're a better person that me.

IMF - I agree with you as I have a lot of Sosa, McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, etc.

I am late in the game on this debate so excuse me for not being well informed. Do we know for sure the Sanchez jersey sold for $20,000 and was paid for? Was $20,000 an asking price and maybe it sold at a negotiated price?

Was it on an auction?

Just wondering where the $20,000 number came from.

Thanks!

[tjm5711]

IMF - I agree with you as I have a lot of Sosa, McGwire, Clemens, Bonds, etc.

I am late in the game on this debate so excuse me for not being well informed. Do we know for sure the Sanchez jersey sold for $20,000 and was paid for? Was $20,000 an asking price and maybe it sold at a negotiated price?

Was it on an auction?

Just wondering where the $20,000 number came from.

Thanks!

20K was JO's list price. Sure, a lower price could have been negotiated. but unless Jarrod(JO) himself makes a post on this thread saying it went for less, it's mere speculation. So, I think it's safe to assume the 20K price was met.

[indyred]

$20,000 is way too much for that jersey. ( A passer rating of 63.0, 20 interceptions) If the Jets lose next week He will be another footnote to the season. The Sid Luckman jersey pictured went for $40,000 in an Auction a while back. You mean to tell me this guy's jersey is worth half that ? No way ! Yes, he played well yesterday, but let's face it the Jets are where they are because of that great Defense. And Sanchez's success is fueled by that solid ground game. I'm not saying he might not develop into a good QB. But, would if he tanks next year ? He could be out of the league within a couple seasons. Then how much would this be worth in that hostile New York market? The Luckman is a piece of history, about 70 years old and from a QB who won multiple titles. That Sanchez is worth $5K even on the JO price scale. No more than $1500 tops on the open/Ebay market.

But, a few people on here will rip me apart for saying that an item is overpriced. Value and price should be somewhat close in my opinion. And true people can buy or sell items for what they want. But from a buyer's standpoint: Why pay an overly inflated price for something? Don't worry, I'm sure they'll be coming out of the wood work to answer that question for us real soon ! LOL

Is Luckman photo matched and proven 100% legit. That is almost impossible to do with older jerseys. What is the history of Luckman jersey anyways. What season/games was it used. Today as game used collectors we are lucky in that we pretty much can be assured what we are getting is real from JO Sports/NFL.com auctions ECT. I'd rather overpay for something I know is real and photo matched like the Sanchez and knowing 1000% it was his first pro jersey he ever used. Compared to an old legends jersey I have no idea how real it is. Like said before to most of us including me 20k is something I'd never spend on any jersey. But for some people 20k is drop in bucket. So more power to them if they can afford to buy it. You could sit and pick apart price on any high dollar purchase. Was someone paying 45k for Sidney Crosby 2nd period Winter Classic jersey crazy? Yes, but who cares.
http://auction.nhl.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=90132484&prmenbr=12717464&aunbr=90479194
Always amazed how people on this site are all bent over shape over this Sanchez jersey. Makes for interesting fodder. The ones I really feel sorry for are all those older proven fake stuff people paid a lot of money for in major auctions houses.

[tjm5711]

Is Luckman photo matched and proven 100% legit. That is almost impossible to do with older jerseys. What is the history of Luckman jersey anyways. What season/games was it used. Today as game used collectors we are lucky in that we pretty much can be assured what we are getting is real from JO Sports/NFL.com auctions ECT. I'd rather overpay for something I know is real and photo matched like the Sanchez and knowing 1000% it was his first pro jersey he ever used. Compared to an old legends jersey I have no idea how real it is. Like said before to most of us including me 20k is something I'd never spend on any jersey. But for some people 20k is drop in bucket. So more power to them if they can afford to buy it. You could sit and pick apart price on any high dollar purchase. Was someone paying 45k for Sidney Crosby 2nd period Winter Classic jersey crazy? Yes, but who cares.
http://auction.nhl.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=90132484&prmenbr=12717464&aunbr=90479194
Always amazed how people on this site are all bent over shape over this Sanchez jersey. Makes for interesting fodder. The ones I really feel sorry for are all those older proven fake stuff people paid a lot of money for in major auctions houses.



As far as the Luckman Jersey's authenticity? I don't think any of us on here are qualified to determine or question that. There is just no way you can compare a proven Game Used jersey of a below-average one year QB to that of a Hall of Famer. The two are in completely different leagues and there is no relative scale to measure the two side by side. I was just comparing the purchase prices relative to each items obvious significance.(Or lack there of in the Sanchez's case) Sure 20k might be a drop in the bucket for some people, but I am referring that gap between the value and the purchase price. There's just NO WAY that's worth 20K.

[allstarsplus]

20K was JO's list price. Sure, a lower price could have been negotiated. but unless Jarrod(JO) himself makes a post on this thread saying it went for less, it's mere speculation. So, I think it's safe to assume the 20K price was met.

Thanks for that. It's all interesting to read this and the comments Indyred made too and his example of the $45,000 Sidney Crosby shirt.

To each their own. I would love to talk to the buyers of both of these items as I would love to know how much they like their purchases.

[tjm5711]

Thanks for that. It's all interesting to read this and the comments Indyred made too and his example of the $45,000 Sidney Crosby shirt.

To each their own. I would love to talk to the buyers of both of these items as I would love to know how much they like their purchases.



Jarrod is a member on here and I recently read a post by him. I'm not sure if he'd disclose the final purchase price. But you could ask.

[tjm5711]

Oh yeah, I'd love to hear from the two buyers of the $45,000 Hockey shirt, and Sanchez 20K item.

[allstarsplus]

Jarrod is a member on here and I recently read a post by him. I'm not sure if he'd disclose the final purchase price. But you could ask.

I'm not going to ask him, but you can! ;)

[tjm5711]

I'm not going to ask him, but you can! ;)



Naw, I'd seriously doubt he'd answer. I'm sure he's got better things to do!

[suicide_squeeze]

Andrew,

I believe it was Jarrod himself who started "the" post which came off wrong to some members (not sure why) who stated that they "sold the jersey for $20,000". I even posted a commnet on the thread, saying it was good for the hobby.

Somewhere shortly after that thread took a nosedive due to the negative responses (and maybe because of the perceived conflict of interest with JO being teamed up with GUU) the whole thread was removed in it's entirety.

So the $20,000 figure is not speculation....it came from the horses mouth.


On a side note, tmj5711, no one is "ripping you apart" for saying the jersey was over-priced. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. We are having a healthy debate. Relax, it's all good.


Right up until Sanchez and the Jets win the Super Bowl. Then.....you're dead wrong. :p

[tjm5711]

Andrew,

I believe it was Jarrod himself who started "the" post which came off wrong to some members (not sure why) who stated that they "sold the jersey for $20,000". I even posted a commnet on the thread, saying it was good for the hobby.

Somewhere shortly after that thread took a nosedive due to the negative responses (and maybe because of the perceived conflict of interest with JO being teamed up with GUU) the whole thread was removed in it's entirety.

So the $20,000 figure is not speculation....it came from the horses mouth.


On a side note, tmj5711, no one is "ripping you apart" for saying the jersey was over-priced. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. We are having a healthy debate. Relax, it's all good.


Right up until Sanchez and the Jets win the Super Bowl. Then.....you're dead wrong. :p



OH NO, I wasn't inferring you were "ripping me apart" there are a couple members lurking in the shadows(LOL) waiting to make their move anytime I say something about items prices too high. You're fine man, I by no means meant you !

[34swtns]

All I know is I wish I had a wheelbarrow full of Ronde Barber jerseys.
The same exact jersey is selling for the 2nd time on NFL auctions for ridiculous money.

The only thing I've ever spent that kind of bread on that I knew I'd never get my money back out of was a car.....and at least it was transportation.

Must be nice to be able to flush that much dough down the crapper.

[tjm5711]

All I know is I wish I had a wheelbarrow full of Ronde Barber jerseys.
The same exact jersey is selling for the 2nd time on NFL auctions for ridiculous money.

The only thing I've ever spent that kind of bread on that I knew I'd never get my money back out of was a car.....and at least it was transportation.

Must be nice to be able to flush that much dough down the crapper.



AMEN Borother ! LOL

[tjm5711]

AMEN Borother ! LOL



I meant Brother ! LOL

[Jules9]

Some of us may think it's overpriced (me included) but obviously someone was willing to spend the money. Let's just say a card company bought it, cuts it up to put it on cards and then earns say $75000 because they put it on cards. Was it really overpriced because they had the means to make money off it? I know the CEO of "In The Game" hockey trading cards is a member over at the hockey game worn jerseys site and searches the site and the auctions for items to both collect and to cut up.

Someone could of bought it to use as a tax deduction, bragging rights, Sanchez could of bought it, heck even the person that bought it might think it's overpriced but wanted it bad enough they bought it anyway......like none of us have done that, just on a smaller scale.

[tjm5711]

Some of us may think it's overpriced (me included) but obviously someone was willing to spend the money. Let's just say a card company bought it, cuts it up to put it on cards and then earns say $75000 because they put it on cards. Was it really overpriced because they had the means to make money off it? I know the CEO of "In The Game" hockey trading cards is a member over at the hockey game worn jerseys site and searches the site and the auctions for items to both collect and to cut up.

Someone could of bought it to use as a tax deduction, bragging rights, Sanchez could of bought it, heck even the person that bought it might think it's overpriced but wanted it bad enough they bought it anyway......like none of us have done that, just on a smaller scale.



It's really not important who it was that bought it and why ! The point here is the ridiculously high price a jersey of a highly unproven player went for.

[indyred]

Oh yeah, I'd love to hear from the two buyers of the $45,000 Hockey shirt, and Sanchez 20K item.

I'd be more interested in hearing from buyer of Luckman jersey for 40k. Did they have some kind of rock solid proof knowing this jersey is what it said to be.
Sanchez and Crosby are as good as it gets as far as authenticity. No leap of faith on where and when they were worn. To me that is most important question on any gamer.

[both-teams-played-hard]

I'd be more interested in hearing from buyer of Luckman jersey for 40k. Did they have some kind of rock solid proof knowing this jersey is what it said to be.
Sanchez and Crosby are as good as it gets as far as authenticity. No leap of faith on where and when they were worn. To me that is most important question on any gamer.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=17150&page=10&highlight=luckman

[xpress34]

Sure 20k might be a drop in the bucket for some people, but I am referring that gap between the value and the purchase price.

Just my .02 here, but as I have always been told - regardless of Book Value, Market Value, etc - the ONLY True Value of an item is what someone is willing to pay you for it.

So, regardless of ANY or our opinions - the current value (at least at the time of the sale) WAS $20,000. Obviously, depending on how this post-season unfolds, that price tag could go up or down. Only time will tell.

As a small scale example, go check out Beckett some time... outside of 'hot' players (A-Rod, Pujols, Lincecum), try to sell a card at Book VALUE sometime... most current GU or AU cards that book under $10 - you'd be lucky to sell in a BULK lot at $1 - $2 each (1/10th to 1/5th of their so called VALUE) because that is what the current market bears.

I've lost out on many 'make an offer' deals because to someone else, the VALUE of the item in question was more to them than it was to me. That doesn't mean it's my place to say they 'overpaid'.

Many factors go into what I might pay for one item as opposed to another similar piece. And many times, it's not what the item's 'value' / price tag is figured at - it has to do with intangibles (like those noted) such as 1st Game, Last Game, ASG, etc...

I personally find the whole thread kind of assinine. But again, like value, that's MY opinion.

- Chris

[34swtns]

This is like fighting the Taliban. They don't think like we do.
We're normal.....they are clearly not.
You can't argue with them because they don't hold the same values that we normal people do so it's a waste of your time to try and reason with them....they just don't get it. You explain the obvious to them but they still continue to adhere to a crazy mentality, ignoring all common sense in the process.
"Some people, you just can't reach", and I'll never understand the need some people feel to defend irrational behavior.

So while you may think this whole thread is "assinine", the other 99 per cent of us think that paying far more than an item is TRULY worth is totally assinine. Just because some fool is willing to pay a ridiculous amount for something does not, (let me repeat that last word....NOT), make it worth that amount. Make no mistake, and by no stretch of the imagination, is this possible. The re-sale market proves it every time.

[xpress34]

So while you may think this whole thread is "assinine", the other 99 per cent of us think that paying far more than an item is TRULY worth is totally assinine. Just because some fool is willing to pay a ridiculous amount for something does not, (let me repeat that last word....NOT), make it worth that amount. Make no mistake, and by no stretch of the imagination, is this possible. The re-sale market proves it every time.

Au contraire mon fraire (excuse my French) - :rolleyes:

1st, like many items out there, this item has not, (let me repeat that last word....NOT) been offered for re-sale, so unless you're a fortune teller, you don't know what the future will bring. And many items have ended up bringing more in the re-sale market after selling for what was thought to be 'ridiculous' pricing in the 1st place - take for example 'The Card' (the Honus Wagner once owned by Gretzky)... even as more genuine examples were uncovered making this card less scarce each time, it continued to CRUSH the previous selling price that was considered impossible at the previous sale.

2nd, as was stated earlier - IF the Jets make the big dance and IF they win it all - this jersey has a chance to sell for many times more than was paid for it to someone else who has the money and wants to own it.

3rd - as I said earlier, true worth (or value) is not really determined by the public at large (i.e. all of us), but rather what a seller is willing to accept and what a buyer is willing to pay. It's called a FREE MARKET economy.

Finally - why is it that so many people here want to deal in ABSOLUTES (i.e. The re-sale market proves it every time.). Again, see the above example - not EVERY time. Or they like do deal in broad GENERALIZATIONS (i.e. Anyone who would spend that much is an idiot/fool/stupid, etc.) Just because you would not spend that amount (and neither would I - besides the fact that I'm a baseball collector) does not give anyone here the right to call the buyer a fool, idiot, etc., and as was also stated earlier, so items have worth WAY beyond the $$$ to some people for reasons we will likely never know (i.e. they are related to the player, their was something special about the day the item was worn for the buyer personally, etc), nor do we have any right to ask for those reasons. As an example (and I will give my reasons) I own a DJ Smith GU Colorado Avalanche Jersey. I didn't pay much for it (bought it during the NHL strike from the Av's store at the Pepsi Center), but I wouldn't sell it for 10 times what I paid for (even though it's probably 'worth' - according to the other 99% apparently - less than I paid for it) as I bought it as kind of a gag gift for my dad (whose name was DJ Smith) even though he didn't follow hockey. I had been sending him DJ Smith hockey cards for years on his B-Day and Christmas and such. When the jersey became available, I couldn't resist it... but my father died before I could give it to him. So now it hangs with my other GU jerseys where it will remain. Too much sentimental value.

That said - before anyone geso preaching how much they think they may know about the 'TRUE' Worth/Value, just realize they probably don't know the real reason why someone would pay so much for it.

Market Value / Book Value / Re-Sale Value, etc... just like Beckett Monthly is a 'GUIDE', those are still just 'GUIDES' on where something might normally sell for, but due to the hobby we are all involved in, sometimes there are just way to many variables that can make anomolies like this happen.

So to conclude - the other ABSOLUTE from above :


Make no mistake, and by no stretch of the imagination, is this possible.

Obviously does not pertain to 100% - or even the 99% mentioned - as this particular item was WORTH that to someone. And no of us here have any right to judge that person's reasons which is exactly what this thread has been.

Chris Cavalier has made it quite clear (especially with a few recent 'suspensions') that this board is moving away from being about collectibles and the hobby and has become basically a scrum for open attacks on individuals.

The basics of THIS thread should have been:

Do you think this jersey is worth $20,000.00? Again, me personally (along with many others here) think NO.

But to personally attack the buyer (even if not by name) or others who defend their right to pay whatever they want by calling them stupid, idiot, etc. just keeps dragging this board down further and further.

That is why I called this thread assinine. Not any of the board members or posters or even the buyer - but the thread because it (like so many other boards here lately) has become about chest thumping and name calling when it adds NO VALUE to anything about the hobby.

Again, my .02 - my opinion - call it what you like, but read what I wrote. It addresses my thoughts without having to resort to name calling.

All the best -

Chris

[tjm5711]

I would like to give Matt from XXXSports a lot of credit. Me an him engaged in a very heated debate earlier in this thread and we didn't even come close to the personal attacks and some of the garbage I have had to endure on other threads in the last day.

Chris Cavalier has made it quite clear (especially with a few recent 'suspensions') that this board is moving away from being about collectibles and the hobby and has become basically a scrum for open attacks on individuals.

From 34xpress


First off, let's let Chris Cavallier speak for himself. He makes plenty of posts on this forum and I don't think other members should interpret what he has to say, using it as fuel n their arguments.


As far as a $20,000 jersey from a guy who threw 12 TDS and 20 INTS this year being worth more because he rides a great defense and solid running game to the Super Bowl ? Well, that's just not rational at all.

I came on this site to learn more about the hobby,make contacts,and maybe pick up some rare items. Instead, I spend a majority of my time defending my ideals and common sense against a few guys on here who like to single you out and attempt to ridicule you for speaking the truth. Then, when you defend yourself, they call you a troublemaker, and warn that you'll be banned. Well I've heard that I'm going to be banned a few times in the month I've been on here from a couple people who don't know what they are talking about. And guess what? I'm still here !

[xpress34]

Thanks for that. It's all interesting to read this and the comments Indyred made too and his example of the $45,000 Sidney Crosby shirt.

To each their own. I would love to talk to the buyers of both of these items as I would love to know how much they like their purchases.

Andrew -

Not that it's a $20k jersey, but apparently many people thought the $850.00 tag on Matt Holliday's 2006 All Star Jersey was too high - I mean MLB still had it available up until mid 2009 when you acquired it for me.

Why was I willing to buy it at that price when no one else was? Many intangibles - Matt's 1st ASG appearance, Matt knows how much of his stuff I collect, he's a good guy (to me at least!), etc, etc. Does that mean I would spend that much for other Holliday stuff? It would depend on the item.

I just figured since you chimed in here - and you were directly involved in me obtaining that jersey - it would be a good real world example of someone paying what other's apparently would not.

Does it make the jersey worth $850.00? Who knows? It will probably be in my collection for the next 20 years or more (however long I have on this Earth) so that question is kind of a moot point. But to me it was worth it - and even more now that Matt has signed it and given it his blessing and inscribed it as Game Used.

Now that Matt has signed a long term deal with the Cardinals, I expect much of his stuff will go up as their is no longer 'speculation' about where he will land.

Maybe the buyer of the Sanchez jersey knows Sanchez and the jersey just has way too much intrinsic value to the buyer - above and beyond the expected 'market' for the jersey.

You know like I do - anything is possible in this hobby, up or down. Like your XMas order that Tiger kind of killed for you. Just like his escapades made his stuff drop, who knows what feats Sanchez might achieve that could make this jersey sky-rocket beyond what any of us might expect or consider 'reasonable'.

All the best -

Chris

P.S. - anything on the Fowler Future Stars jersey? ;)

[xpress34]

Let's let Chris Cavallier speak for himself. He makes plenty of posts on this forum and I don't think other members should interpret what he has to say, using it as fuel n their arguments.


As far as a $20,000 jersey from a guy who threw 12 TDS and 20 INTS this year being worth more because he rides a great defense and solid running game to the Super Bowl ? Well, that's just not rational at all.

I came on this site to learn more about the hobby,make contacts,and maybe pick up some rare items. Instead, I spend a majority of my time defending my ideals and common sense against a few guys on here who like to single you out and attempt to ridicule you for speaking the truth. Then, when you defend yourself, they call you a troublemaker, and warn that you'll be banned. Well I've heard that I'm going to be banned a few times in the month I've been on here from a couple people who don't know what they are talking about. And guess what? I'm still here !

TJM -

1st, I'm not attacking you - nor have I attacked anyone here, but as I said, the previous post is my opinion but Chris has OPENLY made posts about personal attacks and the ilk, so I'm not exactly 'interpreting' what he has to say. I might be paraphrasing from some of his posts and reading into the suspensions (but I also read his post about what the suspensions were for - and they did include personal attacks). I'm not 'using it as fuel' to defend my arguments - I'm simply stating that (IMHO) if you can't make your argument without attacking someone, then you might want to rethink what you're typing. NONE of us are infallible, the ultimate expert, etc - we are a conglomeration of collector's who as you stated: "I came on this site to learn more about the hobby,make contacts,and maybe pick up some rare items." The more personal attacks I see, the less I care to share any knowledge with certain individuals because they seem to want nothing more than to be combative.

2nd, in your opinion (and you are welcome to it and I defend - and did defend as member of the USAF for 12 years - your right to it) the jersey possibly being worth more if they win the SB not being rational? We don't deal in a 'rational' hobby. For lack of better terms (and I've been called worse by people) we're 'Star Chasers' or 'Hero Worshipers', etc because we collect Autos or Game Used items from sports stars we idolize. (If we didn't idolize them, we wouldn't collect them.) I mean if you saw a guy stop a bank robbery, would you want the shirt he was wearing while being a hero? Probably not - I know I wouldn't even think about. Yet he just committed a much more heroic act than most any of our sports idols will even do - but we'll dole out thousands for the jersey or bat or whatever they wore in such and such a game. Again, it's not a 'rational' hobby.

That is the simple point I have been trying to get across these last few posts.

I truly hope that you find the knowledge and contacts you seek in trying to make yourself a better collector.

All the best -

Chris

[tjm5711]

TJM -

1st, I'm not attacking you - nor have I attacked anyone here, but as I said, the previous post is my opinion but Chris has OPENLY made posts about personal attacks and the ilk, so I'm not exactly 'interpreting' what he has to say. I might be paraphrasing from some of his posts and reading into the suspensions (but I also read his post about what the suspensions were for - and they did include personal attacks). I'm not 'using it as fuel' to defend my arguments - I'm simply stating that (IMHO) if you can't make your argument without attacking someone, then you might want to rethink what you're typing. NONE of us are infallible, the ultimate expert, etc - we are a conglomeration of collector's who as you stated: "I came on this site to learn more about the hobby,make contacts,and maybe pick up some rare items." The more personal attacks I see, the less I care to share any knowledge with certain individuals because they seem to want nothing more than to be combative.

2nd, in your opinion (and you are welcome to it and I defend - and did defend as member of the USAF for 12 years - your right to it) the jersey possibly being worth more if they win the SB not being rational? We don't deal in a 'rational' hobby. For lack of better terms (and I've been called worse by people) we're 'Star Chasers' or 'Hero Worshipers', etc because we collect Autos or Game Used items from sports stars we idolize. (If we didn't idolize them, we wouldn't collect them.) I mean if you saw a guy stop a bank robbery, would you want the shirt he was wearing while being a hero? Probably not - I know I wouldn't even think about. Yet he just committed a much more heroic act than most any of our sports idols will even do - but we'll dole out thousands for the jersey or bat or whatever they wore in such and such a game. Again, it's not a 'rational' hobby.

That is the simple point I have been trying to get across these last few posts.

I truly hope that you find the knowledge and contacts you seek in trying to make yourself a better collector.

All the best -

Chris



I wasn't referring to you. You never did anything like that. I was merely using an example of how one member on here has been following me around to any thread I post on, and disagreeing with whatever I post. I just wanted to illustrate where some others' motives are on here. I disagree with some of your points, but by no means meant you were taking swipes at me.