HOF - Wow

[Rob L]

No Alomar. Blyleven at 74.2%. Jeez. Congrats to the Hawk though!!!

[tjm5711]

Blyleven will eventually get in. I think his rant, wining about not getting in a year or so ago didn't help him get in any sooner.

[ahuff]

But his vote numbers went up this year. So I would say perhaps the rant helped him out. Before that, nobody cared that he was 5th All Time in K's (and two of the guys ahead of him just recently retired), was merely 13 wins short of the magical "300", had a career 3.31 ERA, 242 complete games, and he accomplished that on some very pathetic teams.

And as Peter Gammons stated, "Think about the fact that his 15 1-0 wins are the most in the last 50 years, and he had more career shutouts than the American League has had the past 18 seasons."

I personally thought it was a relatively weak class of potential candidates (compared to some of the more recent years that we have had). That being said, I can't believe that only Dawson got in (and that Rice got in last year in another weak year). How can Bert and Roberto not receive more votes than the Hawk? (And that is coming from a Cubbie fan!!!) It leaves me wondering if writers are truly the best for this job.

[byergo]

It's a discredit to the Hall of Fame that Blyleven has been excluded. His numbers tell the story period.

I think Dawson is deserving. From being a fan way back then I viewed him as a HOF'er. The guy has it all, MVP, ROY, Gold Gloves, lots of clean HR's, RBI's, hit's. Just an all around GREAT player.

Can't say the same about Alomar (he's best known for AIDS and spitting on an ump--very distasteful and lack of respect for the game), or Larkin (2,340 hits?). Hall of Pretty Good, not even close to Hall of Fame.

The HOF just ain't what it used to be. All the "high quality" candidiates moving forward are all known roid cheaters besides maybe Griffey Jr., and the remaining pool is extremely weak. Sad if you ask me.

[BaseballGM]

Personally, I'm a Robbie supporter and feel disappointed that the writers decided to exact punishment from an incident that both parties have resolved years ago. Heck, Babe Ruth punched an umpire!

[NYCrulesU]

Congrats to The Hawk.


Here's to Alomar, Baerga, Bagwell, Blyleven J. Franco, Larry Walker and Palmeiro in 2011! Yes, I said it, PALMEIRO! lol I know he has no shot at the HOF as things stand. But hey, a guycan dream can't he? :D

[Texans]

It's a discredit to the Hall of Fame that Blyleven has been excluded. His numbers tell the story period.

I think Dawson is deserving. From being a fan way back then I viewed him as a HOF'er. The guy has it all, MVP, ROY, Gold Gloves, lots of clean HR's, RBI's, hit's. Just an all around GREAT player.

Can't say the same about Alomar (he's best known for AIDS and spitting on an ump--very distasteful and lack of respect for the game), or Larkin (2,340 hits?). Hall of Pretty Good, not even close to Hall of Fame.

The HOF just ain't what it used to be. All the "high quality" candidiates moving forward are all known roid cheaters besides maybe Griffey Jr., and the remaining pool is extremely weak. Sad if you ask me.


I didnt know Alomar has AIDS. I just google the story. Wow


Jojo

[NYCrulesU]

I didnt know Alomar has AIDS. I just google the story. Wow


Jojo


This is a good write up about it. Note the bolded last sentence. Let's not forget that Magic Johnson is considered a Legend and a hero living with HIV, which he contracted by sleeping around. Perception is a funny thing. I support Alomar. Great second baseman. He'll make the HOF next year and I'll be happy for him. If he is sick, I can only hope that he's taking care of himself and lives out the rest of his days as best he can.



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Court records in [URL="http://www.nbcnewyork.com/topics?topic=Brooklyn"]Brooklyn (javascript:void(0);) show that Roberto Alomar (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/topics?topic=Roberto+Alomar)'s ex-girlfriend has settled the lawsuit (http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/05/06/2009-05-06_alomar_settles_suit_with_former_gal_pal.html) she filed against the ex-Mets second baseman in January. Ilya Dall (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/topics?topic=Ilya+Dall) was seeking $15 million in damages for allegations that Alomar had unprotected sex with her after he found out that he had contracted the AIDS virus, but no financial terms of the settlement were announced.
Dall was gunning for this outcome from the first day by loading her lawsuit with embarrassing revelations about Alomar. The allegations ranged from Alomar suffering from erectile dysfunction to his being gang-raped when he was 17, and Dall also made graphic claims about how full blown AIDS was affecting Alomar.
Alomar's lawyer, Charles Bach (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/topics?topic=Charles+Bach), called the lawsuit frivolous when it was filed, and wouldn't address whether or not his client had AIDS yesterday.
"He's healthy and he looks great," said Bach. "The matter is over. The plaintiff [Dall] has withdrawn her complaint."
Alomar himself has said he's in "very good health (http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/02/12/2009-02-12_former_mets_baseball_star_roberto_alomar.html)," but has also avoided direct comment on his HIV status. There's no reason that medication, exercise and healthy living wouldn't allow him to be in very good health even if he did have the virus, but there's also no reason why that status should be a matter of public record.

[sox83cubs84]

I'm as happy as a conservative at the Reagan Ranch for Dawson, now the first (and so far only) HoFer I caught a game home run from (#396). I was surprised that Alomar didn't make it, though...of course, Ryne Sandberg didn't make it the first time out, either. Still, Alomar will get there sooner than later.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[dirtyla2000]

I love it ,DAWSON IN AND ALOMAR LEFT SPITTING IN THE WIND!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sincityson]

Now I guess the next question is does the Hawk go in as an Expo or a Cub?

[NYCrulesU]

I love it ,DAWSON IN AND ALOMAR LEFT SPITTING IN THE WIND!!!!!!!!!!!


Until next year. Perhaps then I'll make as many obnoxious and annoying post about it, as you have about him not getting in :rolleyes: Then again, I won't. I try not to be a complete ass on message boards.

[NYCrulesU]

Now I guess the next question is does the Hawk go in as an Expo or a Cub?

I would like to see him in as a Cub. I'm sure there are a ton of fans that want the opposite.

[jbsportstuff]

or Larkin (2,340 hits?). Hall of Pretty Good, not even close to Hall of Fame.

Are you serious? Not even close to the hall of fame? WOW...what game have you been watching.

This has been discussed ad nauseum....but I guess we need to do this again...

Batting average (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Batting_average) .295Home runs (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Home_run) 198Hits (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Hit_(baseball)) 2,340Stolen bases (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Stolen_base) 379Teams
Cincinnati Reds (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Cincinnati_Reds) (1986 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1986_in_baseball)–2004 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/2004_in_baseball))Career highlights and awards
12x All-Star (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game) selection (1988 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1988_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1989 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1989_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1990 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1990_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1991 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1991_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1993 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1993_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1994 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1994_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1995 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1995_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1996 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1996_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1997 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1997_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1999 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1999_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 2000 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/2000_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 2004 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/2004_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game))
World Series (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/World_Series) champion (1990 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1990_World_Series))
3x Gold Glove Award (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Gold_Glove_Award) winner (1994, 1995, 1996)
9x Silver Slugger Award (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Silver_Slugger_Award) winner (1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999)
1995 NL MVP (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/NL_MVP)
1993 Roberto Clemente Award (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Roberto_Clemente_Award)
1994 Lou Gehrig Memorial Award (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Lou_Gehrig_Memorial_Award)Batting average (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Batting_average) .295Home runs (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Home_run) 198Hits (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Hit_(baseball)) 2,340Stolen bases (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Stolen_base) 379Teams
Cincinnati Reds (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Cincinnati_Reds) (1986 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1986_in_baseball)–2004 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/2004_in_baseball))Career highlights and awards
12x All-Star (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game) selection (1988 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1988_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1989 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1989_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1990 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1990_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1991 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1991_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1993 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1993_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1994 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1994_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1995 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1995_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1996 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1996_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1997 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1997_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1999 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1999_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 2000 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/2000_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 2004 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/2004_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game))
World Series (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/World_Series) champion (1990 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/1990_World_Series))
3x Gold Glove Award (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Gold_Glove_Award) winner (1994, 1995, 1996)
9x Silver Slugger Award (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Silver_Slugger_Award) winner (1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999)
1995 NL MVP (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/NL_MVP)
1993 Roberto Clemente Award (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Roberto_Clemente_Award)
1994 Lou Gehrig Memorial Award (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/wiki/Lou_Gehrig_Memorial_Award)

Career statistics


Batting average (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batting_average)
.295


Home runs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_run)
198


Hits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit_(baseball))
2,340


Stolen bases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_base)
379


Teams

Cincinnati Reds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Reds) (1986 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_in_baseball)–2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_in_baseball))

Career highlights and awards

12x All-Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game) selection (1988 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1989 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game), 2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Major_League_Baseball_All-Star_Game))
World Series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series) champion (1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_World_Series))
3x Gold Glove Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Glove_Award) winner (1994, 1995, 1996)
9x Silver Slugger Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Slugger_Award) winner (1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999)
1995 NL MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NL_MVP)
1993 Roberto Clemente Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Clemente_Award)
1994 Lou Gehrig Memorial Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Gehrig_Memorial_Award)

Nough said

[Nnunnari]

Alomar, McGriff and McGwire are all HOFers, Larkin and Raines are not. Once Alomar gets in next yr, the first steroid guy will have ben let in the hall and this should hopefully open the door for McGwire in the future.

[mr.miracle]

Alomar, McGriff and McGwire are all HOFers, Larkin and Raines are not. Once Alomar gets in next yr, the first steroid guy will have ben let in the hall and this should hopefully open the door for McGwire in the future.


Where has Alomar's name ever come up in a discussion of potential steroid users? I have never heard this in any place even as a possibility?

[Nnunnari]

That's because the public is still extremely naive regarding steroid use. People think that a huge spike in numbers or a body of Barry Bonds are the only tell tale signs of steroids, when in reality, the majority of players who took steroids showed no such signs, they continued to be average.
Have you seen the size and weight of an Alomar bat? Have you ever seen a quicker fall off and complete end to somebody's career? There are a lot of players who you have never heard steroid rumors about who used. If I had to put money on it, Alomar used. Still an unbelievable player, deserving of the hall, just like McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, Manny, Pudge, Sheff, Bagwell, Biggio, A Rod etc.

[NYCrulesU]

Do you honestly think there are no steroid users in the HOF already? I am sure there are more than a few. I wouldn't doubt it for a second.

[mr.miracle]

That's because the public is still extremely naive regarding steroid use. People think that a huge spike in numbers or a body of Barry Bonds are the only tell tale signs of steroids, when in reality, the majority of players who took steroids showed no such signs, they continued to be average.
Have you seen the size and weight of an Alomar bat? Have you ever seen a quicker fall off and complete end to somebody's career? There are a lot of players who you have never heard steroid rumors about who used. If I had to put money on it, Alomar used. Still an unbelievable player, deserving of the hall, just like McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, Manny, Pudge, Sheff, Bagwell, Biggio, A Rod etc.

At the end of the day, it is all speculation at least in regards to Alomar and any number of players. While we do know some used, there are many that remain complete speculation. I will give you this, his career fell apart very quickly however his health completely declined very quickly and that could be due to any number of issues including this whole AIDS accusation from last year but that really has no bearing on this specific discussion. I would not bet any amount of money on any of these people one way or the other because I am sure that we would all be very surprise by who ultimately used and did not use. BTW, Jimmie Foxx is a perfect example of a player completely losing it at a very young age.

[mr.miracle]

You also might want to check out Robin Yount, he got started at 18 Alomar at 20 and they both started to fade pretty fast Yount done at 37 Alomar at 36. If I can find it, there was an article on ESPN a couple of years back about all the MLB HOF calibre players that began their careers at age 20 or younger and how almost across the board, they began a serious precipitous drop off in production at like 34 or 35 years of age. The theory is or was that each player no matter what age they begin has only a certain number of games in them at a high level. The numbers really do tend to bear this out.

[mr.miracle]

Just curios as well, does this theory on steroids also pertain to Ken Griffey Jr.? He kind of fits the entire profile and theory of a guy physically falling apart at a young age, getting injured repeatedly and one who never bulked or balloned up yet statistically has become a shell of his former self in every way over the past five plus years.

[dirtyla2000]

Until next year. Perhaps then I'll make as many obnoxious and annoying post about it, as you have about him not getting in :rolleyes: Then again, I won't. I try not to be a complete ass on message boards.
WHO IS TALKING TO YOU? IF HE IS RELATED TO YOU I M SORRY,IF NOT KEEP COLLECTING YOUR ROID HERO PALMEIRO.HE SHOULD BE GETTING IN THE HALL ... LIKE NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!

[NYCrulesU]

WHO IS TALKING TO YOU? IF HE IS RELATED TO YOU I M SORRY,IF NOT KEEP COLLECTING YOUR ROID HERO PALMEIRO.HE SHOULD BE GETTING IN THE HALL ... LIKE NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!


:rolleyes:

[cjclong]

I understand that people are upset with steroid users. They have a right to be. However, in some respects I think some take it to extremes. With someone like Palmeiro they act as if he would never have gotten a home run or even a hit without steroids. I suspect they aided him some, but I'm sure he would have had over 500 home runs without them, just maybe not 569. Rather than causing him to hit long home runs in his case it may have kept him from being as tired later on in the season. Palmeiro's home runs came from his swing and timing, not pure power like some of the others. Even before the steroids allegations there was a question as to whether he was a dominant enough player to make the Hall. I was at the game where he hit his 500th home run. I'm disappointed with the steroids, but he is still a player I will always like. And I think the fact that you never see him shows he is disappointed in himself.

[Vintagedeputy]

Alomar, McGriff and McGwire are all HOFers, Larkin and Raines are not. Once Alomar gets in next yr, the first steroid guy will have ben let in the hall and this should hopefully open the door for McGwire in the future.

Raines is every bit a HOF as any of the others. If Rickey Henderson had not been there, Raines would be thought of as the best base stealer of his generation. 808 SB's are nothing to sneeze at, on top of his other HOF worthy stats.

[ironmanfan]

Raines is every bit a HOF as any of the others. If Rickey Henderson had not been there, Raines would be thought of as the best base stealer of his generation. 808 SB's are nothing to sneeze at, on top of his other HOF worthy stats.

other than the stolen bases, I'm curious as to what other "Hall of Fame" worthy stats Tim Raines has?

[Nnunnari]

Did you ever watch Raines or Larkin and say to yourself, "wow I'm watching a hall of famer right now?" Probably not, they had very nice careers, but this is the Hall of Fame we're talking about, they aren't quite there, sorry.

Alomar's drop off in production is uncomprable to anybody else, he literally couldn't field a ground ball in spring training and couldn't make the cut with the terrible Devil Rays. He's a Hall of Famer no doubt, all I'm saying is, once he's in, all steroid guys have to get in.

The issue with Palmeiro is, yes he would've most likely been a Hall of Famer off the juice, but he was the one guy dumb enough to get caught and keep doing steroids (detectable) and not HGH (not detectable) once MLB started cracking down. He was a great player with one of the sweetest swings we've seen, but he shouldn't be let in because of his stupidity level alone.

The only other steroid guy who should not get in maybe, is Sosa. He absolutely would not have been a HOFer w/o the juice. Like Luis Gonzalez, very average players who were a product of steroids.

[33bird]

I've read a lot of books about Jimmie Foxx and two things did him in at a young age: drinking and a serious sinus problem that they knew nothing about back then. Teddie Ballgame said Foxx always a little flask of whiskey in his locker. When Arod is done and we see always his statistical records, Foxx fans will say "What could have been?"

[NYCrulesU]

I understand that people are upset with steroid users. They have a right to be. However, in some respects I think some take it to extremes. With someone like Palmeiro they act as if he would never have gotten a home run or even a hit without steroids. I suspect they aided him some, but I'm sure he would have had over 500 home runs without them, just maybe not 569. Rather than causing him to hit long home runs in his case it may have kept him from being as tired later on in the season. Palmeiro's home runs came from his swing and timing, not pure power like some of the others. Even before the steroids allegations there was a question as to whether he was a dominant enough player to make the Hall. I was at the game where he hit his 500th home run. I'm disappointed with the steroids, but he is still a player I will always like. And I think the fact that you never see him shows he is disappointed in himself.


I feel the same way with Palmeiro,disappointed. But I still like the guy. In a way I am glad he has the poor reputation that he does. Keeps prices REALLY low for me to buy his stuff ;)

[dirtyla2000]

I feel the same way with Palmeiro,disappointed. But I still like the guy. In a way I am glad he has the poor reputation that he does. Keeps prices REALLY low for me to buy his stuff ;)
Did everyone forget his finger pointing rant in congress. He too is a coward who commited purgery and then fell off the face of the planet without an explanation.What a role model,what a hero,what a loser!!!!!

[Vintagedeputy]

other than the stolen bases, I'm curious as to what other "Hall of Fame" worthy stats Tim Raines has?

A .294 career BA over 23 seasons, batted .290 or better in 11 of those seasons. Many more of those remaining seasons were at .270-.280 +.

A 7 time All Star

1987 All Star game MVP

1986 Silver Slugger

1986 NL Batting Champ

Led the league in runs scored in 1983 and 1987

Led the NL in SB's for 4 seasons and was #2,#3 or #4 on that list 5 more times.

808 careers SB's (5th all time). A few seasons he actually had more SB's than Henderson.

Being a huge baseball fan in the 80's, I feel Raines was every bit as good as Sandberg, Puckett, and any number of other with similar numbers who are in the HOF.

[byergo]

Like I said, Larkin isn't even close to being HOF caliber. A guy with no power (under 200 HR's) needs 3,000 hits to get in. He's 660 short. That's a long, long way from even being considered a possibility. A guy way short on hits with no power and only 3 gold gloves. And probably on roids as well. Give me a break!

How did this guy win an MVP in 1995? He hit .319 with 15 HR's and 66 RBI's. Has to be one of the weakest MVP performances in the history of the game. What a joke.

[byergo]

How about a little respect for Dan Quisenberry while we're at it? Here's a guy that should be considered at least a borderline candidate. He got 3.8% of the vote. What if he were a Yankee?

http://www.yorkblog.com/southpaw/2009/08/player-appreciation-dan-quisenberry.html

[dirtyla2000]

A .294 career BA over 23 seasons, batted .290 or better in 11 of those seasons. Many more of those remaining seasons were at .270-.280 +.

A 7 time All Star

1987 All Star game MVP

1986 Silver Slugger

1986 NL Batting Champ

Led the league in runs scored in 1983 and 1987

Led the NL in SB's for 4 seasons and was #2,#3 or #4 on that list 5 more times.

808 careers SB's (5th all time). A few seasons he actually had more SB's than Henderson.

Being a huge baseball fan in the 80's, I feel Raines was every bit as good as Sandberg, Puckett, and any number of other with similar numbers who are in the HOF.
yeh yeh,you da man!

[3arod13]

Is it fair to say that Robbie Alomar came within "spitting" distance this week of making the Hall of Fame?

[dirtyla2000]

Is it fair to say that Robbie Alomar came within "spitting" distance this week of making the Hall of Fame?
do you think moments before the hof announcement he was SALIVATING:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[MikeM]

Did everyone forget his finger pointing rant in congress. He too is a coward who commited purgery and then fell off the face of the planet without an explanation.What a role model,what a hero,what a loser!!!!!
Well, at least he finally was honest and completely admitted to using performance enhancing drugs to the public.


And by that I'm talking about his ad campaign for Viagra. :D