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View Full Version : Monthly Pick-Ups Ethical To Mention a Fake Item Posted



Lokee
01-06-2010, 11:17 PM
Just wondering what everybody's opinion is on this subject.

If you see something in the monthly pick-ups thread that you know is "not legit" and you have proof is it OK to point that said item out ?

FOR THE RECORD I think it is if you can back it up.

ivo610
01-06-2010, 11:30 PM
you might help them get their money back, but you also might start a big pointless fight. I would rather hear from other people if they think or know its fake. but thats just my .02

mfsquirrelmaster
01-06-2010, 11:36 PM
This forum is here to help educate so I think it should be pointed out. If the item is pointed out bad the buyer maybe able to get a refund and learn from his mistake.

stretch
01-06-2010, 11:39 PM
I believe it should be pointed out. I know I would want to know!

NYCrulesU
01-06-2010, 11:45 PM
I say yes. I would want someone to tell me if they thought an item of mine was fake.

gannonknight85
01-06-2010, 11:51 PM
I agree with what has already been said, if you have proof it is perfectly acceptable to make mention in a polite manner.

jobathenut
01-07-2010, 12:22 AM
Speaking of myself i would'nt want to be told what i had was a fake.So no,you should not call someone out on here.As you would be doing.I can almost seeing emailing them.Or sending them a "pm" but i think i am the only one that does'nt have thier turned off on here.I guess i go with what my mom told me,"if you have nothing nice to say .then don't say it".I know this forum is about educating and helping but some people might not want that help.Goes under that mind your own buisness thing.

platinum1
01-07-2010, 12:30 AM
Speaking of myself i would'nt want to be told what i had was a fake.So no,you should not call someone out on here.As you would be doing.I can almost seeing emailing them.Or sending them a "pm" but i think i am the only one that does'nt have thier turned off on here.I guess i go with what my mom told me,"if you have nothing nice to say .then don't say it".I know this forum is about educating and helping but some people might not want that help.Goes under that mind your own buisness thing.
:rolleyes:

NYCrulesU
01-07-2010, 12:49 AM
Speaking of myself i would'nt want to be told what i had was a fake.So no,you should not call someone out on here.As you would be doing.I can almost seeing emailing them.Or sending them a "pm" but i think i am the only one that does'nt have thier turned off on here.I guess i go with what my mom told me,"if you have nothing nice to say .then don't say it".I know this forum is about educating and helping but some people might not want that help.Goes under that mind your own buisness thing.

This is in no way a personal attack, as I have nothing personal against you. I am merely commenting on your reply in this thread.


You can't be serious. I honestly think, after reading a dozen or so of your recent posts, that you are simply disagreeing with others just to disagree i.e arguing for the sake of arguement.

Mind your own business? If you have nothing nice to say?

This isn't Miss Sally's (or Miss Nancy's, depending age lol) Romper Room. This is a forum of (mostly) educated, intelligent, well meaning individuals who have a passion for collecting game used memorabilia. I would dare to guess that nearly everyone here would like to know if they bought or were about to buy a fraudulent item. Whether it came from a PM, an email or direct post. I get the feeling that nearly everyone here has a decent relationship with each other, either as fellow collectors or even good friends. Members here seem to look out for one another, exactly how it should be.

Your opinion on how it should be is EXACTLY how theft and deception is bred, by people not taking a stand or pointing out fraudulent/fake items. Thieves/frauds pray for collectors with your mindset, those that won't say anything to anyone and just carry on as if it's not their business.


Thankfully not everyone sees things as you do.

spartakid
01-07-2010, 12:50 AM
Definitely, I would want someone to tell me if they knew something I didn't. As long as they had proof, I would hope that anyone of us is mature enough to realize that they should consider this a help, and not be angry at the person for pointing it out. I mean does anyone (maybe with the few exceptions of people who have had problems with one another) have reason to call someone's item out if they don't believe it to be true. I know I would need more than a hunch to point something out as a fake.

10thMan
01-07-2010, 01:26 AM
I would say yes, I would want to know if I bought something that was Bogus.

The sooner I know, the better, but I only speak for myself. Easy to say it could lead to an argument, or someone may offer an Opinion that may not necessarily be "fact" or True.

"Tie Base goes to the Runner" STEVE, I`m joking...


Sean

jobathenut
01-07-2010, 01:32 AM
I am sorry that i don't drink the kool aid and disagree with you guys.Man i can not believe i have been called out yet again today for speaking my mind on this "forum".ALRIGHT-I'LL JUST KEEP MY DAMN THOUGHTS TO MYSELF.
This is in no way a personal attack, as I have nothing personal against you. I am merely commenting on your reply in this thread.


You can't be serious. I honestly think, after reading a dozen or so of your recent posts, that you are simply disagreeing with others just to disagree i.e arguing for the sake of arguement.

Mind your own business? If you have nothing nice to say?

This isn't Miss Sally's (or Miss Nancy's, depending age lol) Romper Room. This is a forum of (mostly) educated, intelligent, well meaning individuals who have a passion for collecting game used memorabilia. I would dare to guess that nearly everyone here would like to know if they bought or were about to buy a fraudulent item. Whether it came from a PM, an email or direct post. I get the feeling that nearly everyone here has a decent relationship with each other, either as fellow collectors or even good friends. Members here seem to look out for one another, exactly how it should be.

Your opinion on how it should be is EXACTLY how theft and deception is bred, by people not taking a stand or pointing out fraudulent/fake items. Thieves/frauds pray for collectors with your mindset, those that won't say anything to anyone and just carry on as if it's not their business.


Thankfully not everyone sees things as you do.

NYCrulesU
01-07-2010, 01:46 AM
I wasn't "calling you out". I specifically said I wasn't attacking you, I was merely replying to your comments. Call it a debate, call it gruff constructive criticism. Calling you out? No.

You come off as very hostile. I believe I may be done even trying to talk to you. Sadly, it has to be that way since you clearly are looking for conflict when none is there.


Take care friend.

murfsteve25
01-07-2010, 01:55 AM
:rolleyes:

hahaha

metsbats
01-07-2010, 07:08 AM
Guys,

No need to fight here. Joba made it clear that he personally does not want to know if he's purchased a fake publically. That's his answer to the question being asked.

Joba

The "mind your own business" angle I don't understand. If one posts items on this forum located on the Internet it's for public consumption and you've just shown your business (as Gilda Radner used to say).

That said lets move on.

TriplexXxSports
01-07-2010, 07:37 AM
.......I can almost seeing emailing them.Or sending them a "pm" ........


+1

I am in favor of e-mailing them, or at least contact them about their item in a polite and professional manner.

Then it can be decided by the parties involved if they feel it should be brought public in order to 'educate' the forum.

We all know that at times this place is like throwing raw steak to the Lions....

allstarsplus
01-07-2010, 08:16 AM
When Eric first started the Forum and members were posting up new acquisitions it happened from time to time as we sure weren't as educated back then on photo evidence.

I faced the same dilemna about 5 years ago when I noticed a prominent member had a fake jersey. It showed me that anyone can be fooled.

I let him know and gave him concrete proof and he was able to go back to the auction house and get a full refund. He was very appreciative.

GarkoCollector
01-07-2010, 08:28 AM
I think the opinions of members have been muddled based on the way the question was asked....maybe I'm weird and just read it differently.

I read it as "IF YOU HAVE POSTED AN ITEM AND A MEMBER CAN DEFINITIVELY PROVE TO YOU THAT YOUR ITEM IS FAKE, SHOULD YOU TELL THEM?"

This does not say SHOULD YOU POST PUBLICLY ON THE BOARDS AND POTENTIALLY EMBARRASS THEM? If you see something is fake and is a NEW item the person has bought, by all means I think you should contact them PRIVATELY and let them know of your concern and findings. This should be done when you are 100% positive and not on a hunch. Personally, I take every effort of members here as an effort trying to be of assistance and not of trying to embarrass over an item that isnt as expected or as was protrayed prior to purchase.

I understand that some people feel you should let sleeping dogs lie, but I will state as MY PERSONAL OPINION that anyone that can help a member and prove they might have been swindled, is their DUTY as a fellow forum and community member to let them know.

Maybe just start by telling the member, "I have some information on one of your pieces and wanted to know if you were interested." At least make the offer, but dont give it away.

LastingsMilledge85
01-07-2010, 08:39 AM
I don't really see much harm in publically stating it, plus wouldn't it be useful in case if the forum member tried to sell it to another forum member or elsewhere after knowing it was fake?

gingi79
01-07-2010, 09:15 AM
I think the real issue is that people feel attacked for posting something when it's authenticity is brought into question. It sometimes seems like some posters act like my students running to me and tattletailing:

"Mr. N, Bobby is a big fat stupid liar with fake toys" and then turning around to Bobby and saying "Nanny Nanny Foo Foo" :p

I'll write this publicly. If I ever post something and you have questions about it's authenticity, please post them. I find starting a sentance with, "Hey Matt, I don't think your shirt looks right buddy. Let me tell you why" leads me to believe you are more interested in enhancing my collection and keeping me away from those who would sell me bogus stuff than saying "Your crap is bogus garbage, dumbass!" :D

legaleagle92481
01-07-2010, 10:00 AM
I think that it is important to privately bring it up to the other person and state your reasons behind it. Just because we post on a forum does not make us experts necessairly and anyone can be duped and by letting the person know they have the chance to question the item further if they so choose by maybe posting and asking for the opinion of the forum and/or sending it to Mears or another trusted game used authenticator to look at and then if they feel that they are not comfortable with the item's authenticity possibly returning it and getting their money back. The closer it is to when you bought an item the easier it is to get your money back usually so it could be a tremendous benefit. Yes someone might take it the wrong way but who cares it is the Internet the vast majority of us are very, very unlikely to ever come into contact with each other in the real world and if you get a nasty email back just ignore it. The way I look at it is I would want to know if it were me with an item that was questionable so I would defintely inform someone else if I thought they had a questionable item.

Game Used Bats
01-07-2010, 10:34 AM
It's a forum. Don't post the item if you don't want feedback of a certain nature. The forum is meant to educate not to coddle certain individuals.

Anthony

tbone90
01-07-2010, 01:05 PM
I love the game of baseball and I love collecting. Because of that sometimes my excitement gets the best of me and I may not do as much homework as I should on a purchase (I am getting better). I'm an enthusiast though, not an expert. That's why I joined GUU; to share, learn and grow with and from others in the hobby.

If someone has proof positive that one of my items is fake PLEASE let me know so I could try and correct the situation with a refund. Of course there is a right and wrong way to approach such a subject too. If it's done respectfully I have no issue with it being brough up. This is a public forum after all.

CampWest
01-07-2010, 01:05 PM
I think any seriously questionable item... whether posted in Monthly Pick-ups, Auction Items, Classifieds, or anywhere for that matter... Should be questioned and researched fully and PUBLICLY. Shouldn't one of our collective goals be to minimize fraudulent items? I'm not saying we should police the hobby, but when we see something we know is wrong, lets try to prevent current and future issues with buying and selling fake items.

I would support public identification and discussion if an item is grossly misrepresented.

sox83cubs84
01-07-2010, 02:01 PM
+1

I am in favor of e-mailing them, or at least contact them about their item in a polite and professional manner.

Then it can be decided by the parties involved if they feel it should be brought public in order to 'educate' the forum.

We all know that at times this place is like throwing raw steak to the Lions....

Certainly not the Detroit Lions...even our Bears beat them twice.:D

Dave M.
Chicago area

sox83cubs84
01-07-2010, 02:03 PM
+1

I am in favor of e-mailing them, or at least contact them about their item in a polite and professional manner.

Then it can be decided by the parties involved if they feel it should be brought public in order to 'educate' the forum.

We all know that at times this place is like throwing raw steak to the Lions....

Seriously, Triple-X, I think your approach is a solid one. People should be made aware if they've been duped, but to turn in into a pissing match on this forum does more harm than good.

Dave M.
Chicago area

TriplexXxSports
01-07-2010, 02:31 PM
Seriously, Triple-X, I think your approach is a solid one. People should be made aware if they've been duped, but to turn in into a pissing match on this forum does more harm than good.

Dave M.
Chicago area

Thanks yo. Its just common courtesy. I know I would be contacted first.

karamaxjoe
01-07-2010, 02:38 PM
It's all about how you talk to people.

If you come off as helpful with excellent facts and you're not insulting someone along with the piece of memorabilia, no one should be upset if you post your findings.

If you can't handle that approach, you shouldn't be on a public forum.

metsbats
01-07-2010, 07:41 PM
I posted one of my Ed Hearn Royals road jerseys on a thread a couple of years ago and KingJammy (Rudy) informed me that the NOB lettering was the incorrect font and the Number on back "7" was missing the footing.

I really appreciated to know that as I didn't realize that my jersey was not what I thought it was. I personally would not mind anything which may be bad in my possession to pointed out in public. It not only educates me but all the rest of the us at the same time.

Given the purpose this forum exists I would be disappointed if something like that was not caught and even more disappointed if it was known and was never pointed out to me.

NYCrulesU
01-07-2010, 08:19 PM
It's a forum. Don't post the item if you don't want feedback of a certain nature. The forum is meant to educate not to coddle certain individuals.

Anthony

My point exactly, summed up nice and tidy. Thank you. :D

suicide_squeeze
01-09-2010, 10:30 PM
I'm a little late to this party, as I have been on vacation :o ......but something I read here deeply disturbs me. Most of the posts have covered all the important aspects of the meaning of this site and how it relates directly with the subject of this thread. But gang, any one of us should understand.....if you hang your underwear out to dry where everyone can see it.....don't take offense to a few wolf whistles.

As a collector, the day I don't want to know one of the items I purchased or won is a fake, is the day I need to have someone tie me up, liquidate my intire collection, hand me the funds, and demand me to find a new hobby. It is simply not OK to have fake items in one's collection. Sooner or later, it will be exposed.

The sooner it is exposed, the more of a chance you have to rectify it. And sharing the experience is what this is all about. I agree with the private contact vs. just throwing it out here, as we have all seen that some members "can't handle the truth". And that's OK, we are all individuals so there is nothing "wrong" with that.

But somehow, some way.....you GOTTA know. We wouldn't be fellow collectors looking out for eachother if we didn't help eachother when it matters most.

We ALL have gotten taken one time or another in our collecting....it's inevitable.

My last comment is this: It is my opinion that the more people that are exposed to an item that turns out "bad", there is a multiple effect of benefit.

-There will be tremendous pressure for the sellor (auction house, dealer, etc.) to refund your money because failure to do so would severly damage their reputation.

-Additionally, the item would then be on record as being "bad" and at least be removed from circulation amongst the folks who share here. We can't protect everyone once an item is found to be fradulent, but we can protect ourselves.

-And in the end, since there would be a record of the item, with pictures and explanations of why it's bad, it helps to rid the hobby of a bad item making the "rounds" to one unknowing collector to the other.


Peace, joba, just a friendly offering.....all I'm asking is for you to think about it. Wouldn't you want to have the opportunity to get your money back because of the help of a fellow forum member who gave you that exact opportunity? God knows I've been there, done that. That's called "experience". And most of the time, in this business, it's the awful kind that teaches you the most.

CollectGU
01-09-2010, 10:54 PM
Just wondering what everybody's opinion is on this subject.

If you see something in the monthly pick-ups thread that you know is "not legit" and you have proof is it OK to point that said item out ?

FOR THE RECORD I think it is if you can back it up.

This whole thread is a joke.....There is no argument here...if someone posts an item as real and you have proof that it is not real you should let them know immediately via the thread they posted and why...you could be saving them money plus educating others si they don't make the same mistake.....once they get over the shock they'll be thankful for it and move on...

Dave

suicide_squeeze
01-09-2010, 11:17 PM
This whole thread is a joke.....There is no argument here...if someone posts an item as real and you have proof that it is not real you should let them know immediately via the thread they posted and why...you could be saving them money plus educating others si they don't make the same mistake.....once they get over the shock they'll be thankful for it and move on...

Dave

Pre-banisment......That's probably the way I would have put it.