Grey Flannel 1994 Jordan White Sox

[hblakewolf]

Forum Readers-

One of my primary collectibles is Michael Jordan BASEBALL game worn equipment. Back in 1995, I was offered a complete Jordan White Sox outfit. Before purchasing it, however, I did my homework. I learned that Jordan was at spring training with the Sox, and wore a team issued black mesh pregame and home/road pants. as was the norm for the White Sox. He NEVER wore a game jersey, as the Sox wore their BP's during spring training. Before the season started, he was sent to Birmingham to play minor league ball for the Barons.

When he left the big league camp, my contact sent me an amazing assortment of game worn equipment. I have his 1994 black mesh pregame (Russell, with name/year/size in the tail), matching road pants, hat, batting gloves, wristbands and 3 bats.

Jordan wore one game jersey in 1994 for the Windy City Classic when the Cubs played the White Sox. He wore a black alternate for the game, void of the 125th Anniversary patch on the sleeve. Likewise, he wore a home jersey in spring training for an Upper Deck Photo shoot-note, photo shoot, not game.

Over the last few years, I have seen his home and road 1994 jersey and pants offered for sale. As noted, he did not wear these in a game, and when this is noted to the seller, the jersey is usually either relisted correctly in an auction or offered for sale as "Team Issued-not game worn" or completely pulled from the auction. How these jerseys show game use is a mystery to me.

Yesterday, I was viewing the upcoming Grey Flannel "SUMMER GAMES" preview section on their website. They have a Michael Jordan 1994 "game worn jersey and pants" listed. I sent Richie a quick email, letting him know that Jordan did not wear a white home jersey in 1994 and he may want to do a little research before the auction. Below is his response:

Original Message -----
From: GFCSPORTS@aol.com (GFCSPORTS@aol.com)
To: hblakewolf@patmedia.net (hblakewolf@patmedia.net)
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: Jordan W. Sox


It seems obvious you are still unemployed.

I'm not by any means the "auction police" (or unemployed for that matter), however, I just tried to point out to Richie that he may want to relist the jersey correctly, based on my experience and research on Jordan baseball equipment and this is the response!

I know Richie reads this Forum. Is it possible for you to respond to this and let us know what type of research was done to enable you to list this as game worn? If not, can we expect it to be pulled from the auction or revised to be offered correctly as "team-issued/non-worn"? Likewise, is it possible that you previously sold this jersey with your LOA as game worn and now can't offer it as anything but game worn? If indeed you continue to offer it as game worn, can you provide a photo of Jordan wearing it in a game? I'm always trying to learn, and would enjoy an opportunity to further educate myself on Jordan's baseball uniforms he wore.

Any insight by Richie or a fellow Forum reader is appreciated.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[amex46]

they also have a 192 larry bird "game worn" 1992 dream team jersey THAT WILL BE OFFERD. but the name on the back is the wrong lettering, size, and font. ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE! CHECK IT OUT! IT IS A SLAM DUNK THAT NAME ON THE BACK IS INCORRECT I CAN ATTACH LNKS TO PICS!

[both-teams-played-hard]

It seems obvious you are still unemployed.


Howard
Was this really Grey Flannel's response? I heard the owner of Grey Flannel used to work at a liscense plate factory...maybe he could get you an application. I heard they offer medical and dental and "time off" for good behavior.

[amex46]

the name seems to big to me i am going to 100% double check though

[hblakewolf]

BTPH-
Yes-
I actually posted the email EXACTLY as it was sent to me.

What's interesting is that I have sent similar emails about a jersey in question to other auction houses including Vintage Authentics, Lelands, Sothebys and Mastro. I can't say as though I have ever seen this type of unprofessional response from any of the above firms. Then again, I can't say that any of these auction houses have ever been challenged about uniform authenticity on the People's Court, either!

Can you elaborate on your post about the license plates-what do you mean?

Thanks.
Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net


Howard
Was this really Grey Flannel's response? I heard the owner of Grey Flannel used to work at a liscense plate factory...maybe he could get you an application. I heard they offer medical and dental and "time off" for good behavior.

[otismalibu]

I heard the owner of Grey Flannel used to work at a liscense plate factory...maybe he could get you an application.

Really? Think he could get me Don King's autograph?

[suave1477]

can they get me doc goodens autograph he should be settled in by now lol lol

[jdr3]

Here is a link from the old board that first brought up richie's possible past.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/379976/message/1122264660/

[trsent]

Howard, you know Ritchie HATES you, why do you bother?

Do you like bashing him on this forum? Do you know for a fact that Ritchie reads this forum? How? Word I hear is he doesn't, but maybe your friend who used to work there told you otherwise.

I just can't figure it out. Every chance you get to make Ritchie tell you how much he hates you, you take advantage of it. Who cares?

Now, I did my homework because some people talk to me.

The item in question was advertised, but not listed yet as they recently prepared the listing and the found the item comes with a LOA stating that it was worn in a commercial. It was never listed for bidding, just a pre-advertisement on the web site.

Now you can sleep tonight.

[hblakewolf]

Joel-

I'm not sure I understand much of your ranting on this one.

You indicate I know Richie hates me? This is by no means the case. A few months ago, I exchanged emails with Richie on another shirt in question, and he suggested we actually meet in person to "discuss it". I agreed to meet him in Princeton, New Jersey (a few minutes from my home) and share a nice lunch together. He agreed, however, never got back to me with a day and time. Maybe an Ivy League setting is just not his idea of a good time.

"My friend who used to work there....". Again, what rant are you talking about, Joel? I'm not aware of any of my friends being employed at Grey Flannel. Who might this be?

The item IS LISTED on their pre-auction site as "GAME WORN". Do your homework, Joel. Visit the site. There is no mention of it being worn in a commercail, etc. After I bring light to this, now the shirt is being offered as "commercial worn". What commercial? Proof?

My original email to Richie was sent with no ill will. It simply made mention that the Jordan on their site could not be "Game worn" as they listed, as he did not wear a home White Sox jersey in 1994 for a game.

You are one interesting person, Joel. First you defend American Memorabilia (who later is found to be using various bogus names on The forum), then James Brown at Historic (an auction house with many, many questionable items and will not return emails sent directly to their site). Now, Richie at Grey Flannel. What a shocker!

Joel, we have talked on the phone and likewise, exchanged emails in the past. Give it up-this and your other posts do a great job of stirring it up-PERIOD and there is no way you actually believe what your posting here or in the majority of your posts on the forum defending the various auction houses.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net



Howard, you know Ritchie HATES you, why do you bother?

Do you like bashing him on this forum? Do you know for a fact that Ritchie reads this forum? How? Word I hear is he doesn't, but maybe your friend who used to work there told you otherwise.

I just can't figure it out. Every chance you get to make Ritchie tell you how much he hates you, you take advantage of it. Who cares?

Now, I did my homework because some people talk to me.

The item in question was advertised, but not listed yet as they recently prepared the listing and the found the item comes with a LOA stating that it was worn in a commercial. It was never listed for bidding, just a pre-advertisement on the web site.

Now you can sleep tonight.

[trsent]

Howard, you know I love you, but get over it - Ritchie HATES you and if you don't know it from this time or the last time when you received a rude email from him, I'll put it here for you to see in bold black lettering.

The jersey in question was put up as a promotional item to help promote the next auction. When you see the auction listing, it will explain that it comes with a full letter from a photo-shoot that Michael Jordan took before the Cubs-Sox game you have also discussed.

Everything will be legitimate, so you can rest now.

By the way, you are out of line comparing me to defending AMI or Historic. I tried to be the guy Historic could talk to to help resolve issues, but when he didn't post on this forum as promised and I decided that relationship was over. Sorry I tried to be a good guy to work with an auction house SO YOU CAN THROW IT IN MY FACE. I had no idea at the original time the mess that whole situation was about to become.

I also believe Ritchie was upset when you decided to throw The People's Court in his face in your original email about the Michael Jordan jersey. Howard, you are not consigning or buying from Grey Flannel, so no worries, right?

If I am wrong about your friend who used to work at Grey Flannel, then how do you know Ritchie reads the forum? Last I heard he only reads the forum when his friends email him postings.

[33bird]

Joel (trsent) always backs up the sellers. I've wondered the same thing too Howard. Who can you trust in this hobby? Not too many.

[hblakewolf]

33 BIRD-
So you too noticed this about Joel. Even when the facts are clearly stated about questionable items or business practices, he continues to back the various auction houses and authenticators.

As I was once told, "The golden rule in business-don't bite the hand that feeds you". Based on your observaton, Joe's hands must look pretty darn good!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net



Joel (trsent) always backs up the sellers. I've wondered the same thing too Howard. Who can you trust in this hobby? Not too many.

[otismalibu]

Joel (trsent) always backs up the sellers.


If ABC Auction house listed the Shroud of Turin today and it had a Wilson tag and 3" of extra length, trsent would be the first to defend it.

And sprinkle in these references to:

- poker
- his ignore list
- where he's living
- someone's lack of debating skills
- a big name playa that he just got off the phone with

I'm not even sure if trsent is a real person. Might just be a board auto-response to the questioning of any item. :)



On a related note...

I wonder if ESPN starts showing Scrabble tournaments, if every 3rd person on every online message board will suddenly be talking about bingos, triple-triples, hooks, etc.

[trsent]

My personal email address is listed in each post I make, I am real and the various friends I have made on this forum (yes, Howard Wolf is one of them) have my personal phone number that they can contact me at anytime if they wish to discuss an issue with me personally.

Grey Flannel made a mistake while listing a reference to their next auction, when the item is shown in the auction it will be corrected, that story is over. The item would have never been listed as game used in the actual auction, their web designer listed the item as such as an error to put up a teaser for the next auction.

It is not the business of anyones, but I will make it clear, I have not bought at item from Grey Flannel in years, and I have not consigned them anything in years also. I have not been paid a fee for outside work for Grey Flannel since their first two major auctions, which must have been 7-9 years ago.

If you do not like my references to life outside the forum, you can just add me to your ignore list. Problem solved.

[bigtime59]

...so, I finished cleaning the dog puke off the ottoman in the TV room for the-I-don't-know-whateverth-time, and threw in the second load of Bashers jerseys from Wednesday nights playoff game, when nobody called me because everybody who knows me knows that I NEVER answer the phone at home...and I really, really like WANTED to defend some auction house or the other, but I can't, because I don't really deal with them, and being between regular gigs, really shouldn't be spending money on superstar items that turn out to be fake (all those who recognize themselves here, please stop doing s*** like that, say, now) and soon enough I'll head upstairs and hope that the wife's in a good mood, and we can end this portion of the week on a good note, and seriously, folks, why do half these threads turn into a round robin of "look, mine's BIGGER..."
But, seriously, folks, since this thread has long since run off the rails:
Bashers regular season 14-3-1
Playoffs (thus far) 2-0
Going for the league title Saturday morning.
Now back to your regularly scheduled measuring contest...:D

[suave1477]

Bigtime you are funny, I wonder the samething - I will not comment anymore. I will just leave it at Bigtime you are funny:D :D :D

[bigtime59]

Bigtime you are funny, I wonder the samething - I will not comment anymore. I will just leave it at Bigtime you are funny:D :D :D

Suave:
You think I'm funny here, you should see me with a bat in my hand! :D
BTW, even though nobody asked, we ran the table in the playoffs, and took home the first place trophy. It's an experience I can recommend to all...

[blackbeard]

LOL, this is classic.

[gnishiyama]

hello,
I don't mean to re-visit an old post but I received an email from a friend of mine in Japan, who was was offered a 'MEARS A10' ,autographed Michael Jordan 1994 Home White Sox game used jersey complete with Comiskey Patch and the 125th MLB logo.

Apparently it comes with a letter from a former equipment manager Bert (Brett) Padell. I have looked everywhere trying to find a photomatch since
it should not be so difficult as its a pinstripe jersey with numerous patches,
added to the fact that MJ is such a high profile period for the highest profile athlete in the world. I was not able to come across anything except one photo which is definately not a photo match since the SOX did not match up with the stripes.

Along with this original poster and not being able to find a complete style match with the patches (MEARS letter states style match to getty images 1783593, 1783574 ) neither of which adds any more authenticity
to the item.

I was just wondering what people think of this jersey?

1. how does it warrant an a10 grade?

2. Is the auto authentic

3. has this particular jersey come across the hobby before? Japan
is the graveyard for many bad items that couldn't or weren't sold
here in the US due to many issues. Unsuspecting Japanese buyers will
buy anything as long as it has an LOA or COA.:mad:

4. AND LASTLY, is this jersey any good? I can't come up with one reason
that it is?

Any help would be appreciated. I would really like to know how this jersey
grades an A10 unless my research fell short.

Goh Nishiyama

Original poster


Forum Readers-

One of my primary collectibles is Michael Jordan BASEBALL game worn equipment. Back in 1995, I was offered a complete Jordan White Sox outfit. Before purchasing it, however, I did my homework. I learned that Jordan was at spring training with the Sox, and wore a team issued black mesh pregame and home/road pants. as was the norm for the White Sox. He NEVER wore a game jersey, as the Sox wore their BP's during spring training. Before the season started, he was sent to Birmingham to play minor league ball for the Barons.

When he left the big league camp, my contact sent me an amazing assortment of game worn equipment. I have his 1994 black mesh pregame (Russell, with name/year/size in the tail), matching road pants, hat, batting gloves, wristbands and 3 bats.

Jordan wore one game jersey in 1994 for the Windy City Classic when the Cubs played the White Sox. He wore a black alternate for the game, void of the 125th Anniversary patch on the sleeve. Likewise, he wore a home jersey in spring training for an Upper Deck Photo shoot-note, photo shoot, not game.

Over the last few years, I have seen his home and road 1994 jersey and pants offered for sale. As noted, he did not wear these in a game, and when this is noted to the seller, the jersey is usually either relisted correctly in an auction or offered for sale as "Team Issued-not game worn" or completely pulled from the auction. How these jerseys show game use is a mystery to me.

Yesterday, I was viewing the upcoming Grey Flannel "SUMMER GAMES" preview section on their website. They have a Michael Jordan 1994 "game worn jersey and pants" listed. I sent Richie a quick email, letting him know that Jordan did not wear a white home jersey in 1994 and he may want to do a little research before the auction. Below is his response:

Original Message -----
From: GFCSPORTS@aol.com (GFCSPORTS@aol.com)
To: hblakewolf@patmedia.net (hblakewolf@patmedia.net)
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: Jordan W. Sox


It seems obvious you are still unemployed.

I'm not by any means the "auction police" (or unemployed for that matter), however, I just tried to point out to Richie that he may want to relist the jersey correctly, based on my experience and research on Jordan baseball equipment and this is the response!

I know Richie reads this Forum. Is it possible for you to respond to this and let us know what type of research was done to enable you to list this as game worn? If not, can we expect it to be pulled from the auction or revised to be offered correctly as "team-issued/non-worn"? Likewise, is it possible that you previously sold this jersey with your LOA as game worn and now can't offer it as anything but game worn? If indeed you continue to offer it as game worn, can you provide a photo of Jordan wearing it in a game? I'm always trying to learn, and would enjoy an opportunity to further educate myself on Jordan's baseball uniforms he wore.

Any insight by Richie or a fellow Forum reader is appreciated.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[GarkoCollector]

If ABC Auction house listed the Shroud of Turin today and it had a Wilson tag and 3" of extra length, trsent would be the first to defend it.


I'll wait for the "event worn" sandals.

[CollectGU]

Goh,

Please check your PM inbox. I sent you a message.

Best,
Dave

[gnishiyama]

Dave,
Got your PM. Replied to your email.
If anyone can help me with this jersey before it gets
buried, I would appreciate it.
Thanks
Goh

[kingjammy24]

goh

"MEARS letter states style match to getty images 1783593, 1783574"

a MEARS stylematch is not always stylematch. as long as the item in question sort of, maybe, kind of looks generally like the item in a photo, it's good enough for MEARS.

"1. how does it warrant an a10 grade?"

the letter from bert padell. as long as there's provenance, MEARS will slap an A10 on it.

anyway, here is the issue. here are order records for the 1994 white sox. home jerseys. note 3 things:

- an order for 2 home jerseys for jordan.

- these jerseys are to have the MLB 125 patch placed on them.

- the size is 46+2. the strip tag is to read "JORDAN 46+2-94"

clearly the white sox did order home jerseys with the 125 patch on them for jordan. jordan actually wearing them is another matter. what doesn't match up is the syntax of the strip tag.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3324/reggie.jpg

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/7578/reggiee.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4926/reggieq.jpg

howard wolf has probably studied jordan's short tenure with the white sox more than anyone else i know. i would take his word on the issue over anything MEARS had to say about it.

rudy.

[gnishiyama]

Rudy,
Thank you very much for your VERY USEFUL information. I'm the type of
collector/dealer who doesn't put much weight on LOA and COAs (especially
Mears A5) but the A10 was very hard to ignore. I will draw my own conclusion on the jersey based on all the evidence I have.

Can anyone else chime in on the authenticity of the signature?
Thanks
Goh Nishiyama

[flaco1801]

i take howards word over any "authenticator" or auction house period.. take that to the bank. you wont get ripped off.. and that my folks is my opinion...no hidden agendas