Historic Auctions Has Not Still Clarified

[Eric]

Historic Auctions Has Not Still Clarified...

The authentication situation- Items still say they come with Global Authentication Certs

Questions posed to them about potential inconsistencies with Tomlinson, Randle El, Parker, Seau, Brown, Peppers, Chambers, Moss, Woodson, Vick (jersey and helmet) McGwire, Coco Crisp, Soriano, Halladay, Chacin.

I emailed questions to you AND sumbitted them to the Ask A Question option on your site and have been blown off.

This is inexcusable.

James Brown- I know you read this forum. How about an explanation for why you won't respond to anyone here. People have been extremely mature and responsible about giving you the chance to give an answer. You have completely blown off major issues with your auction, the merchandise, your authenticators and the non-disclosure of conflicts of interest.

People deserve to have information. You have had many things to share with your customers and you have chosen not to. These are your choices to run your business and in my opinion they are poor choices.

Eric

[ChrisCavalier]

Historic Auctions Has Not Still Clarified...

The authentication situation- Items still say they come with Global Authentication Certs

Questions posed to them about potential inconsistencies with Tomlinson, Randle El, Parker, Seau, Brown, Peppers, Chambers, Moss, Woodson, Vick (jersey and helmet) McGwire, Coco Crisp, Soriano, Halladay, Chacin.

I emailed questions to you AND sumbitted them to the Ask A Question option on your site and have been blown off.

This is inexcusable.

James Brown- I know you read this forum. How about an explanation for why you won't respond to anyone here. People have been extremely mature and responsible about giving you the chance to give an answer. You have completely blown off major issues with your auction, the merchandise, your authenticators and the non-disclosure of conflicts of interest.

People deserve to have information. You have had many things to share with your customers and you have chosen not to. These are your choices to run your business and in my opinion they are poor choices.

Eric
Hello Eric,

While I know this thread was posted in the "Current Auction Items" folder, can we also add to the list the need for an explanation of Brad Wells' ownership interest in Historic Auction as it related to the email he sent us in November 2005. Here is the request from a previous thread:

"Hello Mr. Brown,

Thank you for your above response and your candor regarding Brad Wells' ownership stake in Historic Auctions. I do have a follow-up question for Mr. Wells based on your response. However, please feel free to answer it if you feel so inclined.

When Historic launched it's inaugural auction in November of 2005, there were a number of members on our site who asked about the relationship between ASI and Historic. On November 29th of 2005 I received an email from Brad Wells (I still have the email) which included information Mr. Wells asked us to post on the site on his behalf. Here is the relevant information Mr. Wells sent us which we subsequently posted on the site:

ASI AND HISTORIC AUCTIONS

ASI AS YOU KNOW STANDS FOR AUTHENTIC SPORTS INC. ASI HAS A CLIENTAL BASE IN BASEBALL AND FOOTBALL AMOUNTING TO OVER 50 CLIENTS. ASI SPECIALIZES IN GAME USED AND SIGNED MEMORABILIA DIRECTLY FROM ITS ATHLETES. ALONG WITH THIS ASI HAS RECENTLY ADDED TWO OTHER UNIQUE SERVICES. THE TWO OF THEM BEING AUTHENTIC SPORTS MARKETING AND ASI AUTHENTICATION. THE MARKETING ASPECT LETS US DO MORE FOR OUR PLAYERS INCLUDING ENDORSEMENT AND ADVERTISING DEALS. OUR AUTHENTICATION PROGRAM ALLOWS US TO TAKE IN ITEMS FROM OUR COLLECTING CLIENTS AND MAKE SURE THERE COLLECTION IS COMPLETELY AUTHENTIC EVEN IF A PARTICULAR ITEM DID NOT ORIGINALLY COME DIRECTLY FROM US.

AS FOR HISTORIC AUCTIONS, A COMPLETELY SEPARATE ENTITY. HISTORIC AUCTIONS IS RUN BY JAMES BROWN AND IS OWNED BY SEVERAL ATHLETES AND INVESTORS. ASI DID PARTICIPATE WITH THE AUTHENTICATION OF THE GAME USED BASEBALL (WHICH IS NOTABLY THEIR EXPERTISE), AS WELL AS CONSIGNED A FEW ITEMS. THAT IS THE ONLY AFFILIATION WHATSOEVER.

Here is a link to the thread where we posted the information on behalf of Mr. Wells (the information is contained in post #14 of the thread):

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...light=historic (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=332&page=2&highlight=historic)

Basically, I'm trying to reconcile Mr. Wells' comment in November 2005 with what you have stated above regarding his ownership involvement with Historic (which you claim he sold in the beginning of 2006). I hope you don't mind me asking on the forum but since Mr. Wells asked us to post the original information above on the forum for our members I think it would be appropriate if we all received an explanation.

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier"

[amex46]

i just called tonight to ask for questions about a jersey i wanted to bid on they were very unprofessional and seemed confused and lied over the phone about an aspect of a jersey i was looking at a picture of right from there web page!

[Eric]

Go into more detail. What was the lie?
Eric

[Eric]

Here are the final results for the items James Brown and Historic Auctions ignored my questions and your questions on. I"m sure I"m forgetting some, so please add to the list.
--
James
Tomlinson $1996.50
Randle El $770
Parker $2145
Seau $1540
Brown $1830.12
Peppers $806
Chambers $550
S. Moss $2090
Woodson $880
Vick jersey $1430
Vick helmet $1626.48
McGwire $2640
Coco Crisp $1073.18
Soriano $500
Halladay $605
Chacin $275
TOTAL PRICE $20757.28

All Sales Are Final.

James wrote on 5/24
"As with our first auction, we are dedicated to providing superior customer service and only 100% authentic items. I hope you enjoy our current auction and have a wonderful time bidding"

[allstarsplus]

Eric - Looking at the list, everything but the Santana Moss looks like they sold for low prices or even below what a game used jersey of those players mentioned should have sold for. Interesting list.....

[EndzoneSports]

While I certainly can't speak to the auction as a whole, I will speak to those few items to which I have some knowledge. We have tracked the sales and pricing trends of Denver Broncos jerseys for well over a decade now and have compiled a fairly extensive database that is available for public viewing/use and updated 3 times a year (in MS Excel format at http://endzone.pscoggin.com/UniPrice.xls). With that, I offer the following as food for thought...

2004 Champ Bailey jersey (http://www.historicauctions.com/search/list/auctionid/31882/) - Average Price (10 items sold) = $958; Historic Auctions Bid = $550
1997 John Elway jersey (http://www.historicauctions.com/search/list/auctionid/31883/) - Average Price (55 items sold) = $,3814; Historic Auctions Bid = $1,180
2004 Jake Plummer jersey (http://www.historicauctions.com/search/list/auctionid/32803/) - Average Price (5 items sold) = $2,081; Historic Auctions Bid = $2,090With the exception of the Plummer jersey, which barely exceeded the average, the Bailey and Elway were significantly below well established averages for game worn jerseys of these players.

While on any given day other factors also can, and I'm sure did, in some part, come into play, If, however, we had some way to objectively compare established averages to actual prices realized across the board on this auction, I would not be surprised to see similar results.

I don't view this as much as a personal crucifixion of James Brown as much as a referendum by the hobby in general with fair warning to Historic Auctions and any other auction house who might find themselves in a similar situation: Once you have crossed the starting gate of a major event (mailed auction catalogs, opened on-line bidding, etc.) is really no time for a major policy shift, AND in the rare and unfortunate circumstance that such an occurance is unavoidable (as I'm sure was the case here), ducking questions and/or providing vague answers is no way to re-instill the publics confidence. My honest opinion is that if these prices were indeed depressed as it may appear, it may not so much have been for lack of confidence in the items as it was a lack in confidence in the business that was offering them.

Regards,

[silverschmidts]

While I certainly can't speak to the auction as a whole, I will speak to those few items to which I have some knowledge. We have tracked the sales and pricing trends of Denver Broncos jerseys for well over a decade now and have compiled a fairly extensive database that is available for public viewing/use and updated 3 times a year (in MS Excel format at http://endzone.pscoggin.com/UniPrice.xls). With that, I offer the following as food for thought...

2004 Champ Bailey jersey (http://www.historicauctions.com/search/list/auctionid/31882/) - Average Price (10 items sold) = $958; Historic Auctions Bid = $550
1997 John Elway jersey (http://www.historicauctions.com/search/list/auctionid/31883/) - Average Price (55 items sold) = $,3814; Historic Auctions Bid = $1,180
2004 Jake Plummer jersey (http://www.historicauctions.com/search/list/auctionid/32803/) - Average Price (5 items sold) = $2,081; Historic Auctions Bid = $2,090With the exception of the Plummer jersey, which barely exceeded the average, the Bailey and Elway were significantly below well established averages for game worn jerseys of these players.

While on any given day other factors also can, and I'm sure did, in some part, come into play, If, however, we had some way to objectively compare established averages to actual prices realized across the board on this auction, I would not be surprised to see similar results.

I don't view this as much as a personal crucifixion of James Brown as much as a referendum by the hobby in general with fair warning to Historic Auctions and any other auction house who might find themselves in a similar situation: Once you have crossed the starting gate of a major event (mailed auction catalogs, opened on-line bidding, etc.) is really no time for a major policy shift, AND in the rare and unfortunate circumstance that such an occurance is unavoidable (as I'm sure was the case here), ducking questions and/or providing vague answers is no way to re-instill the publics confidence. My honest opinion is that if these prices were indeed depressed as it may appear, it may not so much have been for lack of confidence in the items as it was a lack in confidence in the business that was offering them.

Regards,


I didn't bid on any of the Broncos items mentioned above because I didn't have any confidence in their authenticity. The Bailey jersey had labels attached in the tail and from everything I've seen of his Broncos gamers, his jerseys are customized to have the tails shortened and the labels removed. Hence, I believe the Bailey jersey was game issued, not game used. With the Elway, there are so many of those floating around from that time period, absent some significant evidence of use and/or provenance or highly credible authentication, there's no way I'm going to bid on that one. It looked like another game issued jersey to me. (What do you think Patrick?). I don't really know much about Plummer jerseys, but I guess I'm not really interested in that item anyway. Given that it went for over $2,000, maybe that one was convincing to the bidding public. I will say that Mr. Brown was responsive several weeks ago to my inquiry regarding their Peyton Manning jersey and they did the right thing in removing that one from their auction. --Steve

[Eric]

Eric - Looking at the list, everything but the Santana Moss looks like they sold for low prices or even below what a game used jersey of those players mentioned should have sold for. Interesting list.....

It doesn't matter if the prices went lower that those in other auctions- if there's a possibility that they aren't the real thing, then people are paying for worthless junk.

Would have been nice to get some answers out of these people.

Reminder folks- All Sales Are Final

I feel sorry for the people who spent their work bonuses, their overtime earnings, were given the items as birthday presents, people who are holding on to them as investments- and they have no idea what they actually have.

If they bid according to the catalog or website they'd have no idea Global Authentications didn't even put their name on it, AND that the authenticators now or at some time had a financial interest in some of the items.

I can't wait to read the lack of coverage about these issues in the hobby trades.

Eric

[CollectGU]

Did anybody end up purchasing anything?

[BoneRubbedBat]

I got lucky, I was outbid on everything.


Marcus

[eGameUsed]

I won a couple of items, but haven't heard anything yet. Strange thing is that all the final bid prices were just below my high bid. When I went to sleep Thursday night, the bidding was at my initial bid. Hum! At least I didn't go too high.

[CollectGU]

Anything you'd like to mention. I went after aq few items - the Chipper Jones rookie jersey and the Mantlle HR ball, and the Eli Manning jersey, which I was ready to keep bidding on, but that letter from Eli looked funny to me. It's too easy to get an athlete to sign a piece of paper and then create an LOA like that without personal letterhead or the aythlete's charitable organization on it....I'm not accusing Historic of anything just explaining why I didn't want to take the bidding higher...

[gameusedfan]

Yeah, I bid on two items. The one was a jersey that when I went to bed was going for $600. I put in a ceiling bid that wouldn't be topped of $1300. At 3am I looked and my ceiling bid was the final bid. I have a serious conspiracy theory that I don't even need to explain. I still have heard nothing from them which is strange in and of itself.

By the way, I called and talked to Whitney on Thursday. I guess I had a slightly different experience with her because she was totally nice and understanding of my concerns. Honestly, I felt very comfortable with everything, perhaps because I tried to keep from backing her into a corner with my allegations. She could not give out the name of the consigner but dropped enough hints that I am very sure I know who it is and that it is someone I respect.

To me, the only troubling thing was that the final bid was, to the penny, what I put in as my max.

[Frank]

[quote=gameusedfanTo me, the only troubling thing was that the final bid was, to the penny, what I put in as my max.[/quote]


I had that happen too (on one of my items but not my two other), but I called up and they explained it. If someone bids within 10% of your ceiling, the site bids it up to your ceiling. So even if you put in a weird amount (e.g. $453.21) and someone bids $450, the site bids $453.21 for you.

Makes sense to me anyway.

[staindsox]

Did anyone get any satisfactory answers explaining the numerous questionable items that were listed in Historic Auctions? It seems there was a great deal of controversy with their last auction. Have they addressed any of these issues? I was looking to bid on a few of their listings, but was scared off because the authenticity of many items was questioned. It seemed that Eric had many things to say about them. Did they ever really address your concerns? I am really curious to hear from people who won any lots. Thanks.

Chris

[jettllc]

I have had the same problems with Historic Auctions responding to e-mails. I have sent them over half a dozen questions about two Jerseys they had up for auction that they did not respond to so I called them directly.

One of the questions I put forth to them was if they would allow another opinion as it pertains to the Jersey before I paid for it if in fact I was the winner of the Jersey. I mentioned a few companies that I would like to get an opinion from but they said no to all of them and then suggested ASI and Brad Wells because of his "great expertise". When I found out he had an interest in the company I called them and left a message for the person I had spoken with before and indicated I head about Mr. Wells involvement with their company and would like them to clarify but amazingly enough never received a return call.

[hblakewolf]

Forum Readers:

I could not help but notice this "Griffey Rookie" jersey currently being offered:
http://vintageauthentics.at.truition.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=71673844&prmenbr=57735959&aunbr=72020554

Not only is it the incorrect size (I don't think Griffey has worn a size 40 since high school!), the description about him having "JR." on the back is even better! Griffey did not wear Jr. on the back of his shirts with the Mariners, in 1989, 1990.....EVER!

How about the Rawlings tag? 1989 shirt with a 1990+ tag.

Regardless, rest easy as it does have a rock solid LOA!

As I always say, do your own homework and wipe your rear with the LOA's.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net