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View Full Version : Check out this Bench "Gamer" Wow..just wow



jbsportstuff
02-05-2010, 04:11 PM
Where do you start with this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Johnny-Bench-1979-Pro-Model-Game-Used-Bat-w-COA-and-LOA_W0QQitemZ260547616301QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item3ca9d91e2d

bigtruck260
02-05-2010, 05:03 PM
I'm not a vintage bat collector - maybe you could educate me. I think I can spot a few things - and I am assuming this is a store model bat (?)...

But I really have no idea what to look for. Thanks.

both-teams-played-hard
02-05-2010, 05:06 PM
Store model with the "JB3" or "JB4" obviously sanded down.

karamaxjoe
02-05-2010, 05:30 PM
I'd like to know how a company that considers itself experts can give the bat a model number when none exists. And yes, that knob has had some work done to it.

jbsportstuff
02-05-2010, 06:04 PM
So many things are wrong with this bat. It calls it a R43C - C designates cupped on the end.. Uh...the bats not cupped.

Bench NEVER ordered a 37 oz bat. Ever. Just horrible.

Manram
02-05-2010, 06:19 PM
That is so bad

bigtruck260
02-05-2010, 06:28 PM
So many things are wrong with this bat. It calls it a R43C - C designates cupped on the end.. Uh...the bats not cupped.

Bench NEVER ordered a 37 oz bat. Ever. Just horrible.

Thanks for the info. I was presented with a Bench 'gamer' to sell for a charity auction last year...the bat was signed but apparently that's all that was legit with it.

It had JB4 on the knob - and since this knob has been doctored, it makes more sense to me. Thanks for the help guys.

allstarsplus
02-05-2010, 07:38 PM
Not familiar with this authenticator. http://www.tsabats.com/100_money_back_guarantee

30058

jbsportstuff
02-05-2010, 07:56 PM
I'm wondering if the Ebay seller is also the "authenticator." This type of "authentication" goes to show you how far someone will go to make a buck off of something fake.

kylehess10
02-05-2010, 11:53 PM
Their "logo" is a basic format you find on microsoft word. Shows how cheap they are

metsbats
02-06-2010, 07:59 AM
So many things are wrong with this bat. It calls it a R43C - C designates cupped on the end.. Uh...the bats not cupped.

Bench NEVER ordered a 37 oz bat. Ever. Just horrible.


Another thing is the model number stamped to the right of GENINUE is non-existent. With the barrel stamp missing how does the seller know its a R43?

I emailed the seller questioning this bat stating that 77-79 bats have model numbers to get an initial feel of where he's coming from.

metsbats
02-06-2010, 07:59 AM
So many things are wrong with this bat. It calls it a R43C - C designates cupped on the end.. Uh...the bats not cupped.

Bench NEVER ordered a 37 oz bat. Ever. Just horrible.


Another thing is the model number stamped to the right of GENINUE is non-existent. With the barrel stamp missing how does the seller know its a R43?

I emailed the seller questioning this bat stating that 77-79 bats have model numbers to get an initial feel of where he's coming from.

metsbats
02-06-2010, 08:04 AM
TSA authenticators are in Whitestone Queens. College Point the sellers location is the next town over. I never heard of TSA and it's right in my own backyard. I'd love to find out more about them.

metsbats
02-06-2010, 08:15 AM
I sent this to info@tsabats.com and included all the fact from this thread.

"Hi,

I'd like to ask you about this bat. (link included)

The bat is not a 77-79 era HB Bench bat. There is no model number on the knob and there should be a model number to the right
of the GENINUE. How did you deduce that this bat is a R43C ordered by Bench? Additionally "C" means the barrel end is cupped
and this bat is not cupped. If this bat is 37.5 inches that is incorrect too because Bench never orderd bats this length.

Please share your thoughts on this?

Thanks"

BMH
02-06-2010, 09:39 AM
I'm surprised no one said anything about his name being a registered trademark? Plus, the bat is foil branded instead of burn branded.

jbsportstuff
02-06-2010, 10:42 AM
Brian - can you e-mail me at jeffreybray@comcast.net I have a bat that I would like to show you a picture of to get your thoughts. I really don't want to post these on the forum.

Thanks,

Jeff

Genke
02-06-2010, 11:09 AM
TSA authenticators are in Whitestone Queens. College Point the sellers location is the next town over. I never heard of TSA and it's right in my own backyard. I'd love to find out more about them.

What more could you possibly want to know than what has been shared here? I think it is a guy who just developed what he hoped would appear to be a nice authentication production on paper to sell his garbage. The individual has no clue, no knowledge, and no right to be involved in any kind of MLB authentication, at least in regards to bats. And once you've tarnished your reputation in such a blatant manner, how do you revive it.

sayhey24
02-06-2010, 12:25 PM
My favorite thing about TSA is the statement that they are "located in the business capital of the world" -- I guess that means they must really be something.

BMH raised the point about the trademark after Bench's name, but didn't Bench actually have that on his later gamers? I seem to recall seeing his 1979 All Star Game bat with the trademark on it.

Greg

TriplexXxSports
02-06-2010, 01:18 PM
Their "logo" is a basic format you find on microsoft word. Shows how cheap they are


Don't be knockin' on the MS Word stuff! Lol....That's where I did mine......:D

.

MSpecht
02-06-2010, 01:47 PM
A look through the TSA "For Sale" site would be useful to browse through before making a purchase decision based on a TSA LOA.
http://tsaauctions.com/tsa_auctions (http://tsaauctions.com/tsa_auctions)

Also, according to U S Patent Office records, Johnny Bench's name was filed for a Registered Trademark on 2/17/1976, and subsequently registered as a trademark on 11/2/1976. I am not 100% sure if the trademark symbol is authorized for use at the time of filing, or the time of actual registration. However, the April 2010 Heritage auction shows a Bench 1976 GU bat without a trademark symbol , which would seem to indicate that trademark registrations are effective as of the registered date which, in Bench's case, would have been after the 1976 season, on 11/2/1976.
http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?SaleNo=717&LotIdNo=128004&txtSearch=&hdnSearch=true (http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?SaleNo=717&LotIdNo=128004&txtSearch=&hdnSearch=true)

Also, over at HOF Bats, Tim shows 4 or 5 post-1976 Johnny Bench GU bats (1977-1983) that all have the registred trademark symbol to the right of his name. http://www.hofbats.com/members/uc/JBench.html

Mike jackitout7@aol.com (jackitout7@aol.com)

allstarsplus
02-06-2010, 03:47 PM
Their "logo" is a basic format you find on microsoft word. Shows how cheap they are

...but they have a custom hologram LOL

metsbats
02-06-2010, 10:12 PM
Here's a response I received just now from the ebay seller of this Bench bat.

Dear metsbats,

I Thank everyone for asking questions and I immediately contacted TSA regarding these issues. I expressed my anger with them and stated I have some serious questions to ask. I assure you if this bat is not what they say it is I will remove it immediatley from ebay. I spoke with the authenticator and he answered all the questions, of which I will share when I get the email from TSA with all the details on this bat. The authenticator asked me to post this question to all of you...

TSA Authenticator:
(Quote)"What must first be established here is the year this bat was made. This is done by knowing the different H & B bat factory brandings. Knowing the time frame is important for 2 reasons. One, it may be a store model bat. Two, it may be a pro model bat made for a specific player. What makes this Bench bat a pro model, and not a store model, This is the question that should be asked here. This bat is 34.5 inches long, so before I say anything else, I ask you, were half length bats such as 34.5 inches sold to the general public? I will await your response before I go further with my answers regarding this Johnny Bench game used bat"(Unquote).

Now I know very little about bats, I am no expert. I am curious to what everyone knows this bat to be. I do not like opinions, so please give me the facts only to back up what this bat "IS". Everyone has told me what they say it is not. Please tell me what in fact this bat "IS" and what facts back that conclusion. I have a few questions for everyone. The Registered Trademark symbol on the barrel next to Bench's name, did that not start in 1976? The bat is 34.5 inches long, is that a pro model bat size? not a store model size? Do store model bats come 1/2 number lengths? What model is this bat? Where should the model number be? The "C" meaning "Cupped" bat as everyone states, I have read Bench ordered over 200 models ending in "C" over the years, yet I find no pics of Bench with a cupped bat. Anyone have input? Thanks again.


- nycsportsstore4u

sayhey24
02-06-2010, 11:23 PM
Thanks for sharing that letter from the ebay seller. I find the last paragraph very interesting. The seller says he likes to deal in facts, not opinions. That's the same wording used in the TSA guarantee and used in a blog written by the authenticator on the TSA website. By the way, this Bench bat is also offered for sale on the TSA website.

For the record, Bench did use cupped bats -- I'll try to post photos of my 73-75
B278 tomorrow.

Greg

jbsportstuff
02-06-2010, 11:45 PM
Just a quick search shows me this Bench bat that is cupped.

The problem with the bat is that there is NOTHING right about it. It's just a store model and someone has faked it to make it a gamer.

For this to be a professional bat, it MUST have the model on it. For this period, the model number should be displayed on the barrell. Before this, the model should have been stamped on the knob of the bat.

This person has NO CLUE what they are doing...and I believe that the seller is one in the same as the authenticator....or atleast has a connection of some kind.

jbsportstuff
02-06-2010, 11:47 PM
Let's try this again...here is a MUCH better picture of a Bench cupped bat.

Vintagedeputy
02-07-2010, 12:17 AM
TSA authenticators are in Whitestone Queens. College Point the sellers location is the next town over. I never heard of TSA and it's right in my own backyard. I'd love to find out more about them.

Here's one better - the authenticator, Florin Cincu has an address of, ready?

FLORIN CINCU
1804 COLLEGE POINT BLVD
COLLEGE POINT, NY 11356


(from public records)

allstarsplus
02-07-2010, 07:00 AM
It gets worse, they authenticate autographs too!

30101

http://cgi.ebay.com/Albert-Pujols-Signed-Autographed-Card-w-COA-Autograph_W0QQitemZ260549026087QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ LH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca9eea127

ironmanfan
02-07-2010, 09:29 AM
It gets worse, they authenticate autographs too!

34798

http://cgi.ebay.com/Albert-Pujols-Signed-Autographed-Card-w-COA-Autograph_W0QQitemZ260549026087QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ LH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca9eea127

I'm sure they would hope that the casual collector might confuse JSA with TSA..............

jbsportstuff
02-07-2010, 04:34 PM
The bat has been pulled. However, I received this from the seller...


"I Thank you for all your help and for everyone else who helped me with this bat. I called TSA and had a long discussion with the authenticator. Now the authenticator looked over the auction and read the messages I sent him from everyone, and he read the blogs and forums. The first thing he noticed was the COA had typos mistakes. The bat is in fact 32 oz and NOT 37 oz. I weighed it and I know this for a fact. Now as for the "C" being cupped, I have not seen any cupped bats from bench and he ordered over 200 models with a "C" over the years (not just 1979). Again I am not an expert. TSA also told me the "C" meant that the model number had no designation according to Malta's book and H&B records. You state ALL Bench gamers have "5" on the knob, TSA showed me many pics where Bench had a "2" on the knob in a game and a "11" on the knob in a game. TSA has in fact showed me all the evidence, there was just a few typos on the COA, including the model number. NOW as for the KNOB being SANDED down, let me assure you, I DID NOT sand the knob nor could it have been sanded. The bat is in fact 34.5 inches (I measured it). If it was sanded to remove the JB4 from the knob, that would mean it was a 35 inch store model bat (correct me if I am wrong). That would mean you would have shave off an entire 1/2 inch to make it a pro bat. NO knob is that thick and that would be extremely noticeable. TSA showed me pics where H&B used a machine to make those "even" circular scratches on knobs to fine tune bats to precision measurements. I was showed many Bench bats sold from auction houses for Thousands, authenticated by PSA and MEARS, that had the same circular scratches on the knob. Sand paper would leave a more messy and noticeable finish and again an entire 1/2 inch cut off from the bat. I am taking the bat down from ebay due to the typos as I promised. I am NOT associated with TSA and I am not a con as it was stated on blogs. If you need pics I can email them to you, I have some."

Well the authenticator has no clue and the person selling the bat didn't read everything on this thread or they would have seen the Bench bat that I showed that IS INDEED cupped on the end. The picture is still in this thread. If TSA showed this person "Bench" bats with a 2 or an 11, then someone else wrote them because Bench was always #5. Just ridiculous arguments.


I'll let everyone else comment on this e-mail I received. I'm just glad that it is pulled. TSA is a joke.

Genke
02-07-2010, 10:38 PM
The bat has been pulled. However, I received this from the seller...


"I Thank you for all your help and for everyone else who helped me with this bat. I called TSA and had a long discussion with the authenticator. Now the authenticator looked over the auction and read the messages I sent him from everyone, and he read the blogs and forums. The first thing he noticed was the COA had typos mistakes. The bat is in fact 32 oz and NOT 37 oz. I weighed it and I know this for a fact. Now as for the "C" being cupped, I have not seen any cupped bats from bench and he ordered over 200 models with a "C" over the years (not just 1979). Again I am not an expert. TSA also told me the "C" meant that the model number had no designation according to Malta's book and H&B records. You state ALL Bench gamers have "5" on the knob, TSA showed me many pics where Bench had a "2" on the knob in a game and a "11" on the knob in a game. TSA has in fact showed me all the evidence, there was just a few typos on the COA, including the model number. NOW as for the KNOB being SANDED down, let me assure you, I DID NOT sand the knob nor could it have been sanded. The bat is in fact 34.5 inches (I measured it). If it was sanded to remove the JB4 from the knob, that would mean it was a 35 inch store model bat (correct me if I am wrong). That would mean you would have shave off an entire 1/2 inch to make it a pro bat. NO knob is that thick and that would be extremely noticeable. TSA showed me pics where H&B used a machine to make those "even" circular scratches on knobs to fine tune bats to precision measurements. I was showed many Bench bats sold from auction houses for Thousands, authenticated by PSA and MEARS, that had the same circular scratches on the knob. Sand paper would leave a more messy and noticeable finish and again an entire 1/2 inch cut off from the bat. I am taking the bat down from ebay due to the typos as I promised. I am NOT associated with TSA and I am not a con as it was stated on blogs. If you need pics I can email them to you, I have some."

Well the authenticator has no clue and the person selling the bat didn't read everything on this thread or they would have seen the Bench bat that I showed that IS INDEED cupped on the end. The picture is still in this thread. If TSA showed this person "Bench" bats with a 2 or an 11, then someone else wrote them because Bench was always #5. Just ridiculous arguments.


I'll let everyone else comment on this e-mail I received. I'm just glad that it is pulled. TSA is a joke.


I haven't read seen this much horsesh!t since I visited the stalls of Churchill Downs before the big race.

Yeah, I know that when they stamp a knob with whatever it is they stamp into it, that the stamping goes into the wood 1/2".

Does this tool think everyone is retarded? And what does that say for the authenticator that he has "typo's" on his pictured letters? Now THER'S a company I want to do biz with.

The seller is the authenticator, it's obvious. VintageDeputy's post pretty much cleared that issue up. And he's really bummed he's been outted. I hope he spent a bundle of money on having all of those worthless holograms made up for his upcoming garbage run.

Why not just call it as it is: TSA = "Total Sh!t Authenticated"

BMH
02-07-2010, 11:43 PM
Wow...I need to be fired. Not only did I not research the whole "Registered Trademark" on his name but I failed to honestly look at the bat. That isn't a R43. The R43 does not flare into the knob. The R43 has a standard knob and taper. That one is more like the original C271.

Genke
02-08-2010, 12:39 AM
It gets worse, they authenticate autographs too!

34798

http://cgi.ebay.com/Albert-Pujols-Signed-Autographed-Card-w-COA-Autograph_W0QQitemZ260549026087QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ LH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca9eea127



Well, at least that Albert Pujols is real....


I wonder if the FBI is on the case yet?

jppopma
02-08-2010, 01:01 AM
What I can't get over is the numbers listed on the LOA's....TSA25,000 range!!!!

I must have been away way too long if a new authenticator came out and has already laid out 25,000 LOA's. Maybe I just underestimate the volume that an authenticator does.

Quantity or quality, right? Who can't help but being convinced by an authenticator that has already given a million opinions? (even if they have a 5-10% rate of being right).

Goes to show the trust people will put into a piece of paper and shiny sticker (is it even custom Andrew? Looks better than other "famous" authenticator's stickers)

Capital-Sports
02-08-2010, 07:53 AM
Well, at least that Albert Pujols is real....


I wonder if the FBI is on the case yet?


The Pujols isn't real.

earlywynnfan
02-08-2010, 09:45 AM
Why hasn't anyone commented on the 1950's Babe Ruth game used Adirondack bat on their website?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

bigtruck260
02-08-2010, 10:46 AM
Well, at least that Albert Pujols is real....


I wonder if the FBI is on the case yet?

I hope you are kidding....

xpress34
02-08-2010, 01:03 PM
Why hasn't anyone commented on the 1950's Babe Ruth game used Adirondack bat on their website?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

Ken -

I checked it out - and the Gehrig. I found the configuration of the two Adirondack's interesting. Instead of being oriented with the Barrel to the Right, they are oriented with the Barrel to the left.

I also liked the Cobb which has obviously been corked at some point in time.

- Chris

momen55
02-08-2010, 07:41 PM
this is what the seller emailed me;

Dear momen55,

Thank you, I understand. I took down the auction, NOT EBAY! I take responsibilty for my actions. There is nothing to fear, I am not a criminal, (not saying you are calling one), I am saying it. Trust has to be earned.

There was typos on the COA and everything is being corrected and resolved. This was partly more my fault, it was a rush job, I pushed the authenticator to slide it in his already extremely busy schedule. He is working on a couple hundred very old vintage bats this week alone, mostly of which I own, thus why he rushed the Bench for me.

I apologize and I would appreciate if everyone would stop with all the crazy allegations and assumptions regarding TSA and especially myself. I am NOT TSA. I am not, nor is TSA, committing fraudelent crimes. I take life very serious and I am one of the good guys.

I am a professional and the work I do has absolutely nothing to do with the sports industry. I collect and do this as a hobby with my kids.

I know TSA thru sports shows here in NY and right now I giving them a chance. I have serious reasons why I do not use the other authenticators.

I am watching over them closely and I assure you and everyone, I will not allow TSA or anyone for that matter to cuase harm to people.

Thank you for all your help and I wish you and your family all the best.
eller emailed me;

jbsportstuff
02-08-2010, 08:00 PM
Wow Momem - That made me want to get out a tissue......LOL

The good guys? We needs guys like this to stop selling fake stuff.

I can think of several things that TSA stands for and none of them have to do with sports. :)

karamaxjoe
02-08-2010, 08:35 PM
The crappy Bench bat is back on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1976-79-Pro-Model-Johnny-Bench-Game-Used-Bat-w-COA-LOA_W0QQitemZ260550551946QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item3caa05e98a

BMH
02-08-2010, 10:05 PM
This Johnny Bench bat is not a store model bat based on the bat’s weight (32.5), the length (34 ½), and the deep well pronounced factory branding, opposed to the foil stamped store model bats. The model number cannot be found in his bat factory records at this time. This can be attributed to either factory error in the bat factory records or manufacturing defect of the bat during production.

Um, that is foil branding, burn branding doesn't pull out of the impressions like that bat.

The only error we made is not marking all of our SOUVIE bats so you could always tell they were souveis and some asshat doesn't try to pass it off as a gamer such as this one.

BTW, if he wishes to correct the description one more time I would say it's a S216 or a B278.

Genke
02-08-2010, 10:13 PM
The Pujols isn't real.


Capital-Sports and bigtruck260,


Of course I know it isn't real, and yes, I was kidding. That is the reason I asked if the FBI was on them yet!? That is one of the most pathetic Pujols forgeries I have seen.

jbsportstuff
02-10-2010, 05:13 PM
If we contact Ebay with the info that we know, will they pull the item? It's an obvious mis-representation and a complete fake of what it's claiming to be.

TriplexXxSports
02-11-2010, 07:23 AM
If we contact Ebay with the info that we know, will they pull the item? It's an obvious mis-representation and a complete fake of what it's claiming to be.

They (eBay) will pull the item if you provide them concrete proof (records, pictures, or something that proves the bat to be different than described beyond a reasonable doubt). They will not pull it based on opinion or hearsay.

jbsportstuff
02-11-2010, 04:13 PM
Just received this hot off the press from the seller. You'll love this.

Dear jbsportstuff,

My highly reputable and reliable sources tell me you are attempting to contact ebay with the intentions of taking down the bat. First, I will tell you that you are in way over your head with this. My Professional reputation is seriously impeccable, highly decorated, and extremely credible. Second, you must provide solid evidence, especially if this auction gets taken down based on opinions and assumptions by you (who is not a qualified expert), I assure you this will lead to legal matters and I will take this case to court, not only against ebay, also you seperately. I will also assure you that not only will I provide the evidence to the validity of this bat, I will then provide the evidence to slander, malicious gossip, defamation of character, calumniation and harassment on your part. Third, I have commited no crime, nor have I committed any illegal action by listing this bat. I and TSA have provided a 30 day money back guarantee to protect any buyer of which will be honored. I have solid hard evidence of the validity of this bat of which I will provide only to a court of law and/or the buyer upon request (I will not get entangled in the gossip you have initiated). Fourth, but not least, I have rights as well as you, and if you confidently wish to violate those rights, provided you have the evidence, then by all means do proceed. I will assure you, if and when this legal battle begins, I will not stop and show mercy , I will prove my case beyond all reasonable doubts and I will be, in addition to all relief deemed appropriate by the court, will also be compensated for all attorneys fees and any other costs of litigation. This is not a game and I hope you are fully prepared, and for the record I do hope this all gets get brought public and the "so called" experts get involved. This is why I have not entertained your foolish gossips, nothing solid will ever come from it. It will serve no purpose to debate foolishly with gossipers, that is not my battlefield.
- nycsportsstore4u


Wow...just amazing...totally clueless.

bigtruck260
02-11-2010, 05:34 PM
Expert?

Brian Hillerich of the Hillerich (and Bradsby) pedigree called this seller an (and I quote) 'asshat' - how much more proof does one need that he is a complete fraud? Why is it that these sellers are willing to threaten and go all legal when someone calls them out on something that is completely wrong. How professional is a company that puts out a COA or LOA for the bat of a popular HOF player - and it has numerous (according to the seller) mistakes and typos.

sshhhea. That'll hold up in court.

5kRunner
02-11-2010, 06:11 PM
Whoever "authenticated" this bat is an idiot. He says the bat is from 1976-1979 but talks about rack marks from Crosley Field. Crosley Field was torn down in 1972.

BMH
02-11-2010, 06:31 PM
Expert?

Brian Hillerich of the Hillerich (and Bradsby) pedigree called this seller an (and I quote) 'asshat' - how much more proof does one need that he is a complete fraud? Why is it that these sellers are willing to threaten and go all legal when someone calls them out on something that is completely wrong. How professional is a company that puts out a COA or LOA for the bat of a popular HOF player - and it has numerous (according to the seller) mistakes and typos.

sshhhea. That'll hold up in court.

Yeah, I shouldn't have said that:o

It irked me he blames the inaccuracies of the bat on our manufacturing. We make mistakes and I'll own up to them but not this one.

karamaxjoe
02-11-2010, 08:24 PM
Yeah, I shouldn't have said that:o



You're right Brian, you shouldn't have said that. :p With the new MODS coming in, you're going to be on thin ice.:D

bigtruck260
02-11-2010, 11:36 PM
Brian -

I was teasing you. Your'e really an assett (as opposed to asshat:D ) to the forum. having you speak to the visuals this dude is providing is what I truly live for in this forum.

At the beginning of the thread, I was under-educated, and after seeing and 'listening' to all of this stuff, I have a great respect for what you and some of the other guys bring here.

I collect bats, and this is a good reference thread.

neverfinished94
02-12-2010, 09:46 AM
...but they have a custom hologram LOL



Goes to show the trust people will put into a piece of paper and shiny sticker (is it even custom Andrew? Looks better than other "famous" authenticator's stickers)

here are the custom holograms. 100 of them for $10

http://cgi.ebay.com/100-ROUND-TAMPER-EVIDENT-HOLOGRAM-SECURITY-LABELS_W0QQitemZ290396299908QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439cf7e284

BMH
02-13-2010, 06:49 PM
Brian -

I was teasing you. Your'e really an assett (as opposed to asshat:D ) to the forum. having you speak to the visuals this dude is providing is what I truly live for in this forum.

At the beginning of the thread, I was under-educated, and after seeing and 'listening' to all of this stuff, I have a great respect for what you and some of the other guys bring here.

I collect bats, and this is a good reference thread.

Thanks, but I still shouldn't have said that, it was a bad day and that is no excuse. I've been debating writing a letter apologizing. I should just bring the tech and not get heated.

Anyway, I should just do what I should when asked questions. Luckily, I have in my department of Pro bat 3 workers who've been working for me for the past 40yrs. each. All three of them worked on Bench bats. Here are our findings.

1. It does not have the model number on the knob, which is questionable, but hey we could have missed it.

2. The bat appears in the pictures to me and my workers to be foil branded. Now does this mean it's a souvie? No, we could have had a screw up and have foil branded because we sent it through combination before burn branding.

3. I also have records on 11/29/01, 11/11/99, 11/21/87 of Johnny Bench Entertainment ordering 34.5in/0.0oz bats. These are of course souvie bats. That does not mean this is a souvie, 34.5in bats were a standard for Mr. Bench.

Now, does this mean the bat in question is a souvie bat? I can not 100% answer that question. If you as a buyer like the bat and feel you are paying a good price for it I would no blame you. I've bought fake M1 Winchester Garand stocks so I can't say much :D

Just remember "caveat emptor"

Mark17
02-13-2010, 09:18 PM
Well, this thread was just too much fun to not get involved, so I had my own email conversation with the seller:

My email to him:
Hi,
Pro model bats all have burned in labeling (going back to the 1910
era) and your bat has foil markings. Furthermore, your bat has no pro
model number on either the knob or the barrel (it would be on the knob for a 1973-75 bat or the barrel for a 1977-79 bat.) You state this is a model
R43, but that style (used by Babe Ruth) has a big knob, not a flared one as yours has. Also, the "C" refers to a cupped-end bat, and your bat isn't cupped. Besides, with no model number on your bat, how could anyone make a claim as to what model it is? There is NOTHING about your bat that is consistent with a pro model bat. Lastly, I see your authenticator and you live in the same town. Coincidence?

His reply:
Hi Back, This bat is not foil stamped, read the questions and answers
first, then ask a question. I will not repeat myself simply due to you dont
want to read. This brand is deeply etched, there is NO heated foil on this
bat that would flake off. I explained all this already. Furthermore, I also
explained the model number. Wake Up, Do we need to sit down and have
coffee? Why do I have to answer the same question over and over. I said
R43? You are confused! What do you mean "C"? You mean R43C? I see you are not reading this auction. That is nowhere mentioned in this auction. You must be stuck on the old auction and COA. I see, you must be from the GUU forum. Now I understand. Lastly, The same town? Are you Drinking? Queens, NY is a borough with over 3 million people, not like Harris, MN with a population of 1,200! Queens is not a small country town, FYI! Now I know you must be from the GUU forum where all the chidren play and worship so called experts. The authenticator does not live in Queens he moved well over 5 years ago. Cheap internet detective tools, LOL! I do not live near the authenticator, try another Dtv tool. The truth to all your questions is in the answers I give and the description I have provided. Open your eyes.

I speak confidently by saying all this, for I am confident in that this bat
is in fact used by Bench, I just dont have the understanding how to prove it, yet. This is my whole point to why I put the Bench up, I know what it
is. I want the experts to tell me what it is, or what they feel it is. I
want them to answer all my questions and stop running from a challange, if in fact they are genuine authenticators. They can not prove what a fake is, how then do you trust them to prove what a genuine is? Do you not understand, I want all the facts. Not "opinions". Not "well it could be,
but?"... Not "its not real, because I say so". Especially NOT "half the
facts and half the opinions". Where are your experts now? Tell GUU and BMH I said Hello.

Since he's checking out this forum I'll reply to him here instead of by direct email.

1. I still have issues with the claim this is a R43C model bat. Yes, the seller is correct in saying that part of the description has been deleted, and apparently we now have a new COA. But, it is still the same bat offered for sale! If it no longer is R43C, then what is it? How good was the authentication to claim it was an R43C initially? If he's now saying he doesn't know what model number it is, how can he confirm it by shipping records? Length alone isn't nearly enough (obviously.) :-) At least it's good to know he can get a new COA at a moment's notice when the original COAis shown to have obvious flaws.

2. Yes, I'm drinking. I've had a few Bass ales (burp!)

3. The authenticator USED to live in Queens, but he moved five years ago. If true, still a coincidence for someone to offer a questionable item authenticated by a former virtual neighbor.

4. Yes, I do worship Mr. Specht and Mr. Hillerich and Mr. Miedema (hope I spelled that correctly) and Rudy who helped me a lot with the Steinbach jerseys I was selling last year, and all the other very legitimate experts who post here. Not to mention Mr. Malta and Mr. Taube. I have statues of each in my front lawn in fact.

5. Saying one is "confident in that this bat is in fact used by Bench, I just dont have the understanding how to prove it, yet..." begs the question: How are you so confident it was used by Johnny Bench? You aren't even confident of the model number.

jppopma
02-14-2010, 08:16 PM
How can you NOT trust an item that comes with a 4 page LOA???? If only it had four of those special holo stickers...I'd be right there.

jbsportstuff
02-17-2010, 04:12 PM
Well our seller ended the auction and cancelled all the bids. Very interesting. It's obvious that they are watching everything we are putting up on TSA and the seller and the obvious connection.

These are the types of sellers that ruin the name of game used collecting.

xpress34
02-17-2010, 04:50 PM
Tell GUU and BMH I said Hello.

Since he's checking out this forum I'll reply to him here instead of by direct email.

1. I still have issues with the claim this is a R43C model bat. Yes, the seller is correct in saying that part of the description has been deleted, and apparently we now have a new COA. But, it is still the same bat offered for sale! If it no longer is R43C, then what is it? How good was the authentication to claim it was an R43C initially? If he's now saying he doesn't know what model number it is, how can he confirm it by shipping records? Length alone isn't nearly enough (obviously.) :-) At least it's good to know he can get a new COA at a moment's notice when the original COAis shown to have obvious flaws.

2. Yes, I'm drinking. I've had a few Bass ales (burp!)

3. The authenticator USED to live in Queens, but he moved five years ago. If true, still a coincidence for someone to offer a questionable item authenticated by a former virtual neighbor.

4. Yes, I do worship Mr. Specht and Mr. Hillerich and Mr. Miedema (hope I spelled that correctly) and Rudy who helped me a lot with the Steinbach jerseys I was selling last year, and all the other very legitimate experts who post here. Not to mention Mr. Malta and Mr. Taube. I have statues of each in my front lawn in fact.

5. Saying one is "confident in that this bat is in fact used by Bench, I just dont have the understanding how to prove it, yet..." begs the question: How are you so confident it was used by Johnny Bench? You aren't even confident of the model number.


Check out my 'discoveries' in the Gehrig Bat Thread.

- Chris

xpress34
02-17-2010, 05:22 PM
His reply:

Lastly, The same town? Are you Drinking? Queens, NY is a borough with over 3 million people, not like Harris, MN with a population of 1,200!

Queens is not a small country town, FYI! Now I know you must be from the GUU forum where all the chidren play and worship so called experts.

The authenticator does not live in Queens he moved well over 5 years ago. Cheap internet detective tools, LOL!

I do not live near the authenticator, try another Dtv tool.

The truth to all your questions is in the answers I give and the description I have provided.

Just an FYI that I posted in the Gehrig Bat thread as well... unless he is lying about his location on his eBay listing, or TSA is not located anywhere near their P.O. BOX (unlikely) and address should be correct - the COAs were just printed the day of or day before the 1st auction for most of these items.

Yes, the 'authenticator' moved... to Maspeth, NY from College Point, NY. And both of those places, including Whitestone, NY (TSA's PO Box location) are all with a 10 mile drive from the CENTER of Queens ( Flushing Cemetery).

So, 'MR TSA' or 'nycsportsstore4u (http://myworld.ebay.com/nycsportsstore4u/)' on eBay (whichever or whoever you are)... since you're following what's going on here, why not just come clean? You're just digging a bigger hole like Mr Clemens... deny, deny, deny...

BTW - I wrote the HOF to see what their take is on items being 'given back' after being donated... I'm guessing you had to give back your Lifetime Pass to the Hall? Or did they not give you one?

- Chris

lehmsbobby
02-19-2010, 12:00 AM
If you go to that TSA authenticator website there is a link for auctions, where they currently have two babe ruth gu bats a honus wagner and a gehrig.

this is great this guy must have made up the authenticator and website to sell his stuff:p

legaleagle92481
02-19-2010, 01:36 PM
If the authenticator does not live in Queens why does his brand new website list his company's address as a PO box there?

earlywynnfan
02-20-2016, 08:11 AM
He's back!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Babe-Ruth-1940s-World-War-II-Game-Used-Bat-Louisville-Slugger-H-B-Rare-/222029066207?hash=item33b1f6afdf:g:ewkAAOSwjVVVv9t c

yanks12025
02-20-2016, 09:06 AM
This guy as a fraud and every item he sells is no good. He is calling one bat game used by Lou Gehrig because the barrel end it cut like what gehrig used sometimes. lol

MSpecht
02-20-2016, 03:29 PM
Check out post # 20 to link to this site current ( ??)., These guys have been long known , maybe 10 years or so) of taking some bat, any bat -- souvie, store, firewood anything and pass it off as GU... Actually they don't try to pass it off very well, as their stories about each bat are not intelligent and in fact downright stupid, along the lines of "I got this Lou Gehrig bat from an alien who crashed his spaceship in Yankee Stadium"...also I remember once the guy floated the story that he communicated with Lou Gehrig through a medium and was told by Lou that the bat was real....

Here is the link http://tsaauctions.com/tsa_auctions

Phil316
02-20-2016, 06:17 PM
Just read this whole thread and WOW.

Juicyfruit66
02-22-2016, 02:08 AM
his eBay listing is back up...the photo matching is just pictures next to pictures...

sek122482
02-23-2016, 05:11 PM
I know this guy has been covered a ton but I just read this description for a Babe Ruth bat and laughed several times. He bought it from Goldin Auctions for $1,000 and now has it at $250,000.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1946-49-Babe-Ruth-William-Bendix-Used-Model-R43-Bat-Rare-Historical-Ruth-Bat-/322013576082?hash=item4af9813b92:g:xu0AAOSwFqJWmB1 Z

The best part, apparently his authentication knew Ruth used this bat before even examining it in person.:

Something still did not sit right with me, I had this feeling deep in my stomach that said buy this bat or you will regret it.

I have to admit I felt a bit confused, so much so I becoming depressed. I hate that feeling when there is nowhere or no one to turn to for answers.

I stopped for a few minutes, got a cup of coffee and started thinking.

Then I realized how stupid can I be, I happen to know the master of game used bats, gloves, antiques, rare artifacts, high priest of the council of the federation of light ok lol now I’m going to far but you get the point.

I contacted the person who authenticates all my bats and I told him about this bat, he saw it and said “Ruth used it for sure” and that once I have it in my possession he will tell me more.

metsbats
02-23-2016, 10:14 PM
Who is this master of game used bats, gloves, antiques, rare artifacts, high priest of the council of the federation of light?

Juicyfruit66
02-24-2016, 01:17 AM
I died laughing.

Juicyfruit66
02-24-2016, 03:19 AM
It gets better, he's got a record http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/appellate-division-second-department/2004/2004-07494.html

memorabiliaunlimited
02-24-2016, 08:58 AM
well i got sucked into reading this whole thread... totally worth it!

gorilla777
02-24-2016, 10:48 AM
If you want to go down memory lane and end up in Crazy Town, take a read of this thread...
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=33119&page=3&highlight=lou+gehrig+tsa

Then go to post 26 where Joel captured some of the Q & A from the "Gehrig gamer" listed on eBay, here is a little sample...and it gets better.

"Q: Would you be willing to accept $125k for this? Feb-16-10
A: I WILL NOT ACCEPT A PENNY NOT UNTIL YOU TELL ME WHY YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY THIS MUCH FOR THIS BAT. BESIDES YOU HAVE NOT ASKED ME A QUESTION ON THIS BAT PLEASE DO SO ANY KIND OF QUESTION. PROVIDING YOU ARE BOTH WELL INFORMED ON WHAT THIS BAT IS AND A LEGITIMATE BUSSINESS PERSON THEN THE SKY IS THE LIMIT. BUT ONLY TIME WILL TELL IT ALWAYS DOES. THANK YOU"

Juicyfruit66
02-24-2016, 01:04 PM
Am I the only one who grabs a beer and settles into these freakshow threads? More entertaining than Netflix

wfl1974
02-24-2016, 04:49 PM
Now that I've seen his auctions, I am now questioning the authenticity of my son's Spiderman cards...

Juicyfruit66
02-24-2016, 06:03 PM
Haha I lost it when I read this :

I showed this bat around to everybody when I first got it, and when I say everybody, I mean everybody.

They all said the same thing, to get rid of it, that its nothing more than an average old store model bat.

I almost threw it out with the trash one day and so when I’m getting ready to put the garbage out that day,

my TV was on loud enough for me to hear it and till this day I don’t know what was on, but I heard it say “STOP GEHRIG”.

This got my attention, so I did the only thing I knew left to do, I took this bat to “the authenticator” meaning the one and only true authenticator,

which by the way he hates being called an expert. He calls himself a student of life and says he is a good teacher

because he remains a good student and that the moment one stops being a good student he then becomes a bad teacher.



He said, "This bat was used by both Wally Pipp and Lou Gehrig of the New York Yankees".

Now that sounds nut’s right, that’s what I thought when he said that.

I never heard of 2 known pro players using the same bat and why would they.

So naturally I’m curious and I said prove it, because I did not believe him, but he took no offense

and showed me a photo of Wally Pipp in 1923 using this “exact identical bat” while with the Yankees.

Juicyfruit66
02-24-2016, 06:06 PM
I'm convulsing after reading his explanation of the names on the bat : The authenticator said, "The barrel has someone else’s name stamped on it in block letters “FOHLER”

and its clear this was done in the 1930s or there after based on the size and shape of the letters".

He also showed me this bat is sidewritten "4-8-1925 PAUL SUERH" an unknown player.



So I said “Then this bat went through 2 more hands besides Pipp and Gehrig”, this is what I thought.

But the authenticator said “No, that’s not what happened here, it appears in this case that on

4-8-1925 Lou Gehrig mailed this bat to Hillerich&Bradsby Louisville Slugger

for duplication with an extra-large out of the ordinary mail in paper label and used an assumed name like "PAUL SUERH" to do so.

He did this to avoid detection from other teams including the press being that by

1925 he was by now officially playing full time with the New York Yankees becoming their new secret weapon".