Manny Ramirez bat question

[Tedw9]

Can anyone tell me if Manny ever used a Nokona bat during the 2006 or 2007 seasons? I just purchased a bat with a PSA DNA coa that says it was used by Manny. The auction said it was game used, and with the coa, I thought it was a safe buy.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

[spartakid]

Is it the Nokona with the Dominican flag and some tape near the knob that was for sale from the seller dolphinboy on ebay?

[spartakid]

BTW this would be a good question for Bobby, the resident Manny expert, to answer.

[Tedw9]

No, it's not the dolphinboy bat, it is this bat.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160403412975&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

[spartakid]

Have you already paid for it?

[Tedw9]

Yes I did. I thought with a PSA DNA coa it which had John Taubes name on it would be a safe bet.

I paid with Paypal so I do have some recourse if it turns out to be not used by Manny.

[spartakid]

I'll start by saying that I'm not an expert on Manny bats, so don't take my word as law. But I saw this when it was on ebay and it just didn't look right to me (in terms of characteristics). Just because an item has PSA authentication doesn't mean it's always legit. It is usually better than no authentication, but you also have to do research on your own, that's the best "authentication" you can get. That's why it's usually a good idea to consult player experts and others for opinions before you buy a bat.

[MSpecht]

Be sure to verify the PSA/DNA Cert number as well

http://www.psadna.com/verify.chtml

Mike

[Tedw9]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Mike, I did crosscheck the cert number before I bought the bat. The site had a good description and a nice closeup of the barrel on the site. The cert and bat matches up well.

I felt comfortable purchasing it because of what I had read here about John Taube and his expertise. But why I am asking now is because I have read that Manny never used Nokona in a game on some other threads here. I guess I am just getting mixed signals and am trying to clarify them so I can be more comfortable with my purchase.

[gamer35]

Definitely not game used by Manny in a game as he never used Nokonas in a game with the Red Sox.

[gamer35]

There also shouldnt be any ballmarks on the back of the barrel as Manny is a label up hitter. From the pics, it looks like there are ballmarks on the right barrel. The wear on the end of the barrel also doesnt match up...

[Tedw9]

Well, it looks like I will be contacting the seller for a refund. I guess I put a little too much faith in the coa.

And just for reference, here is the PSA cert number....E36967

Thanks again everyone.

[soxfan]

Has anyone seen or heard anything about these 2003 "Game Used" Manny bats with the MR24 Hologram and LOA from Manny himself?

I have had this bat for 6 years and cant find anything out about it....

Thanks!

Jeremy

macleodjeremy@hotmail.com

[Tedw9]

I've been in email contact with John Taube explaining what is going on. I told him how some of the Manny collectors here didn't feel it was a Manny game used bat.

His questions to me were what were you reasons for thinking it was not used by Manny and did any of you see every at bat of Manny's in 2007?

Obviously I don't think anyone saw every at bat, but I would love to hear why you all believe it is NOT a Manny game used bat.

I am also in contact with Joe Orlando about this and will be sharing any information you all can give me with him.

Thank you for all the help everyone!

[Manram]

The one thing i can tell right away(I am no manny collector) is that the characteristics are off. Pine tar, ball marks, etc

[spartakid]

Has anyone seen or heard anything about these 2003 "Game Used" Manny bats with the MR24 Hologram and LOA from Manny himself?

I have had this bat for 6 years and cant find anything out about it....

Thanks!

Jeremy

macleodjeremy@hotmail.com

What does the handle look like? Any ball marks? Can't really tell from just the barrel.

[spartakid]

I've been in email contact with John Taube explaining what is going on. I told him how some of the Manny collectors here didn't feel it was a Manny game used bat.

His questions to me were what were you reasons for thinking it was not used by Manny and did any of you see every at bat of Manny's in 2007?

Obviously I don't think anyone saw every at bat, but I would love to hear why you all believe it is NOT a Manny game used bat.

I am also in contact with Joe Orlando about this and will be sharing any information you all can give me with him.

Thank you for all the help everyone!

It's just the characteristics, after seeing so manny (no pun intended) bats, you can usually just tell. A large problem you have is that it will probably be all but impossible to prove the bat wasn't used by Manny. You are really stuck unless the seller decides just to take a return, because otherwise you'll have to prove it and it'll be a hassle. I haven't looked through getty, but have you been able to find a pic of Manny using this type of bat. On a side note, I received an e-mail from someone who owns a handful of Manny bats, and he though that this bat was "doubtful at best." I'll keep him anonymous because he chose not to post, but you get the idea.

[Tedw9]

I have been in email contact with Joe Orlando and he referred me to John Taube. And he said to keep in mind that they are paid for their opinion, not to confirm others opinions. So I sent off a very polite email to Mr. Taube asking what characteristics he looks for and what kind of source he uses to confirm that Manny used this kind of bat. I have looked through 4 sites and thousands of photos including Getty and Corbis and have yet to find a pic of Manny holding a bat like this. That is what makes me nervous. I don't think Paypal will back me because burden of proof falls on me and I have no proof other than what I am reading here. So unless something comes up that is proof one way or another, I think I am going to have to keep the bat.

[gamer35]

Since John wants to question whether people have seen every Manny AB in 2007 (which I have nearly every Sox game from that season and not once did he ever use a Nokona), the better question for him is why hasn't he checked the AB's himself instead of questioning others? I challenge him to look through any 2007 game on mlb.tv (which are available right now) and find 1 AB of Manny using a Nokona.

Also, lets say for a second that Manny did use a Nokona, the use characteristics on this bat are way off. I really dont understand how an authenticator does not have on file the usage patterns for a player of his stature and then question why people are doubting the legitimacy of the bat.

It's tough to tell from the pics that are posted as they are pretty small but:
1) there should be basically no usage on the back of the barrell; there appear to be ballmarks on the reverse
2) pine tar on the handle is light
3) barrell usage on the end of the barrell is not right. there should be significant wear above the label where Manny taps his bat

If anything, it could be an Ortiz bat as he used Noknonas pretty frequently.

[Tedw9]

Well, I told John about the post here and I am hoping he will come here and read it. I actually thought he was a poster here, but I guess I am wrong.

Maybe after my new email he will be so kind as to stop in here and explain why he thinks it is a legit gamer.

[soxfan]

Spartakid

Thanks for the reply and here are more pics.

I know that in 2004 American Memorabilia had sold 2 of theses...one identical to mine with the MR24 holo and LOA and the other (pictured below) is the ASI LOA bat. Both sold for over $600.

Thanks!

macleodjeremy@hotmail.com

[soxfan]

OOpppsss...

For some reason they didnt post...try it again

Jeremy

[kellsox]

A classic " do your homework" situation. I've never really been a big fan of bat authenticators. Looking at Taube's site and the wide variety of players he is selling bats of(and has authenticated), I wonder about the ability to truly know every player's bat characteristics/usage to deem a bat used by said player. I look at LOAs as letters of opinion with nice pictures and some useful info but in the past few years with the amount of images available and MLBtv, I would feel more comfortable doing my own research.
k

[33bird]

I can tell you that most of the big name authenticators read posts on this forum. I know for a fact that Taube has, because I posted something once that he didn't care for and now we no longer do business. I'm not sure how that hurts me, since there's tons of places to find game used bats, outside of his site. He's cost himself thousands of dollars that way. Anyway, the point of my post here, was to say I don't trust any authenticator 100%. There's just way too much to know about every different player. I guarantee every authenticator out there has made mistakes. Why would Taube authenicate a Nokona Manny bat without even checking images from the season to verify he used one? See what I mean? I think most of us that have collected long enough, don't put a lot of stock in the so called experts paperwork. I think we do a lot of our own homework and have guys that we trust that we email when we have questions-including this site. Plus, have you seen the prices that Mears and Taube charge to write up a coa on something? I'd rather buy a game used piece for 300.00 than pay for a piece of paper with an opinion.