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View Full Version : Terry Bradshaw possible gamer (Jersey 2/5)



apujols04
11-25-2005, 09:42 PM
Here are the pics from the Bradshaw 1977 "gamer" in the AMI auction LOT#10. i don't think AMI will mind me posting this pic as i am a supporter of their company and their authenticators (PSA/DNA, Jim Spence, and Lou Lampson -especially for football gamers). As they continue to try and get their payments to consignors out in a consistent timeframe, they will continue to be one of the best places (in my opinion) to get good money for your stuff. what they have done to assist in showing the true value in the Mantle market with their connections to good stuff is unreal! My pics will follow.

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both-teams-played-hard
11-25-2005, 09:46 PM
Don't use any of AMI's jerseys as a template for authenticity...
http://www.network54.com/Forum/383222/thread/1131742908/last-1131766784/Bradshaw+jersey+in+AMI+auction...

apujols04
11-25-2005, 10:23 PM
The questions/concerns I have about my jersey:

1. The sandknit tag appears to have been affixed on by some way other than sewn on as you can see in the pic I am posting. Is this correct? Or would it have been sewn on 100% of the time?

2. I think the jersey may have a "team repair" The p[ossible repair is what you see above the tags.

3. I have no knowledge of Steelers jerseys. How do the nameplate and sleeves look? I was told in a previous post that this jersey was missing a tag, but the AMI jersey has only 1 tag as well (not including the year tags). However, my year tag matches closely to AMI's bradshaw year tag.

The pics.....

apujols04
11-25-2005, 10:25 PM
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apujols04
11-25-2005, 10:26 PM
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apujols04
11-25-2005, 10:28 PM
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hof89
11-25-2005, 10:31 PM
[quote from apujols04]Here are the pics from the Bradshaw 1977 "gamer" in the AMI auction LOT#10. i don't think AMI will mind me posting this pic as i am a supporter of their company and their authenticator. As they continue to try and get their payments to consignors out in a consistent timeframe, they will continue to be one of the best places (in my opinion) to get good money for your stuff. what they have done to assist in showing the true value in the Mantle market with their connections to good stuff is unreal! My pics will follow.

This is the individual with the Musial, Unitas, Bradshaw and Staubach vintage jersey’s whose claiming he doesn’t know what he has with these jerseys. but he’s the authenticator of jerseys for AMI???? Am I missing something here? What type of scam is he pulling with all of us??? Moreover, if he’s linked to AMI, then something is DEFINITLEY wrong!!!!!

apujols04
11-25-2005, 10:32 PM
close up of the sand knit tag slightly peeling

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apujols04
11-25-2005, 10:34 PM
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apujols04
11-25-2005, 10:35 PM
Please feel free to email me with any questions/comments/info on any of my jerseys to utahjazzfan8@hotmail.com

DA

apujols04
11-25-2005, 10:40 PM
[quote from apujols04]Here are the pics from the Bradshaw 1977 "gamer" in the AMI auction LOT#10. i don't think AMI will mind me posting this pic as i am a supporter of their company and their authenticator. As they continue to try and get their payments to consignors out in a consistent timeframe, they will continue to be one of the best places (in my opinion) to get good money for your stuff. what they have done to assist in showing the true value in the Mantle market with their connections to good stuff is unreal! My pics will follow.

This is the individual with the Musial, Unitas, Bradshaw and Staubach vintage jersey’s whose claiming he doesn’t know what he has with these jerseys. but he’s the authenticator of jerseys for AMI???? Am I missing something here? What type of scam is he pulling with all of us??? Moreover, if he’s linked to AMI, then something is DEFINITLEY wrong!!!!!

WHAT?? I LEFT THE S OFF OF AUTHENTICATOR. I MEANT TO TYPE I AM A SUPPORTER OF THEIR AUTHENTICATORS....ESPECIALLY PSA/DNA AND JIM SPENCE. I DO KNOW THAT LAMPSON IS PRETTY DANG GOOD AT WHAT HE DOES FROM WHAT I HEAR WHEN IT COMES TO FOOTBALL. I said I know that AMI has a Bradshaw jersey in their auction and I felt that they would not care if I posted pics of their jersey as I have consigned autographed items ONLY to them in the past. These are the first 5 possible gamers I have ever owned excluding an Isaac Bruce from my dad and a SIU carbondale basketball signed gamer from a close friend of mine who made it to the sweet 16 with SIU. i have no connestion with AMI except for respecting the quality of their autographed items. I am solely an autograph collector---until now! I do not work with AMI or for AMI. PERIOD. I am just impressed with their autographed items over all other auction companies.

hof89
11-25-2005, 10:42 PM
The questions/concerns I have about my jersey:

1. The sandknit tag appears to have been affixed on by some way other than sewn on as you can see in the pic I am posting. Is this correct? Or would it have been sewn on 100% of the time?

2. I think the jersey may have a "team repair" The p[ossible repair is what you see above the tags.

3. I have no knowledge of Steelers jerseys. How do the nameplate and sleeves look? I was told in a previous post that this jersey was missing a tag, but the AMI jersey has only 1 tag as well (not including the year tags). However, my year tag matches closely to AMI's bradshaw year tag.

The pics.....

Cons:
1.) With the jersey turned inside out, the nameplate appears to be sewn on crooked...is that true?
2.) If there was a Steeler Exclusive Sand Knit tag there at one point, the glue residue should be there, unless these tags were added after the fact.
3.)Why are so many of the supposedly used 70's Steelers jerseys always missing the Steelers Exclusive tags??? The size seems to always be there, but not the Steelers Exclusive tag....hmmn????
4.) Something that is only attributed to '78 Steelers jerseys that were worn by Bradshaw doesn't exist on this one.....
5.) Wide zig zag stitching...Steelers and most other teams had a tight stitching on their numerals and I heard that directly from Mr. Lou Lampson...

Pros:
1.) Jersey length...
2.) Correct size and Sand Knit size and year tag.

hof89
11-25-2005, 10:44 PM
I am just responding to your post...did I read it incorrectly?

apujols04
11-25-2005, 10:46 PM
I am just responding to your post...did I read it incorrectly?

I left the s off of authenticators. I meant to imply I support their authenticators---psa, JSA, and lampson for vintage football from what I hear.

apujols04
11-25-2005, 10:49 PM
Cons:
1.) With the jersey turned inside out, the nameplate appears to be sewn on crooked...is that true?
2.) If there was a Steeler Exclusive Sand Knit tag there at one point, the glue residue should be there, unless these tags were added after the fact.
3.)Why are so many of the supposedly used 70's Steelers jerseys always missing the Steelers Exclusive tags??? The size seems to always be there, but not the Steelers Exclusive tag....hmmn????
4.) Something that is only attributed to '78 Steelers jerseys that were worn by Bradshaw doesn't exist on this one.....

Pros:
1.) Jersey length...
2.) Correct size and Sand Knit size and year tag.

MAY I ASK YOU WHAT DOES NOT EXIST SO I MAY LOOK FOR IT AND POST A PIC, OR IS IT SOMETHING I ALREADY TOOK A PIC OF AND IS NOT THERE. IF ITS NOT A GAMER, I AM OKAY WITH THAT. I WAS JUST HOPING IT WAS A STORE MODEL AND NOT A DOCTORED JERSEY. WHAT IS IT WORTH? SHOULD I TAKE THE $700 OFFER FOR IT?

hof89
11-25-2005, 10:51 PM
There is no doubt that this is a nice and rarely seen Terry Bradshaw jersey, however, it has way too may questions associated with it (at least for me), but I'm sure SOMEONE will authenticate it!!!!

hof89
11-25-2005, 10:55 PM
MAY I ASK YOU WHAT DOES NOT EXIST SO I MAY LOOK FOR IT AND POST A PIC, OR IS IT SOMETHING I ALREADY TOOK A PIC OF AND IS NOT THERE. IF ITS NOT A GAMER, I AM OKAY WITH THAT. I WAS JUST HOPING IT WAS A STORE MODEL AND NOT A DOCTORED JERSEY. WHAT IS IT WORTH? SHOULD I TAKE THE $700 OFFER FOR IT?

No disrespect, but I don't want to divulge that information. Look at any photo of Terry Bradshaw (home or away) from the 1978 NFL season and his jersey has something your's doesn't have. Again, you still have a nice jersey, but in my opinion, it's not game worn....but who am I? If someon offered you $700.00 and your comfortable with it...take it!!!

apujols04
11-25-2005, 11:01 PM
There is no doubt that this is a nice and rarely seen Terry Bradshaw jersey, however, it has way too may questions associated with it (at least for me), but I'm sure SOMEONE will authenticate it!!!!
YOU CLAIM TO BE AN EXPERT BUT YOU WONT COME OUT AND SAY WHAT IS MISSING WITH THE JERSEY. THAT SEEMS STRANGE TO ME THAT YOU MAKE A CLAIM BUT ARE NOT WILLING TO OFFER ANY INFO TO GO WITH YOUR CLAIM. HERE ARE CLOSE-UPS OF WHAT I THINK YOU WANTED TO DOUBLE CHECK.......PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU CLAIM IS MISSING FROM THE JERSEY. WHAT IS IT WORTH AS A STORE MODEL? IS IT A STORE MODEL?

NOTICE WHAT APPEARS TO BE A TEAM REPAIR A FEW INCHES BELOW THE YEAR TAG STITCHING IN THE PICTURE. I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHAT IT IS I SHOULD SEE IN A 78 BRADSHAW BUT I AM NOT SEEING....JUST FOR FUTURE REFERENCE NOW THAT I AM LEARNING.

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apujols04
11-25-2005, 11:02 PM
No disrespect, but I don't want to divulge that information. Look at any photo of Terry Bradshaw (home or away) from the 1978 NFL season and his jersey has something your's doesn't have. Again, you still have a nice jersey, but in my opinion, it's not game worn....but who am I? If someon offered you $700.00 and your comfortable with it...take it!!!
ARE NOT YOU ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO EMAILED ME AN OFFER?......AND THAT IS SILLY YOU DON'T WANT TO SHARE INFO WITH COLLECTORS HERE LIKE IT IS A SECRET. IF IT IS SO EASY TO SEE, THEN IT IS NOT LIKE YOU ARE DIVULGING NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION. I AM TRYING TO LEARN FROM AN OBVIOUS STEELERS AND GAME USED EXPERT. I HAVE TO RELY ON PEOPLE LIKE YOU FOR THIS INFO SO I DONT MIS-DESCRIBE WHAT I HAVE.

hof89
11-25-2005, 11:09 PM
YOU CLAIM TO BE AN EXPERT BUT YOU WONT COME OUT AND SAY WHAT IS MISSING WITH THE JERSEY. THAT SEEMS STRANGE TO ME THAT YOU MAKE A CLAIM BUT ARE NOT WILLING TO OFFER ANY INFO TO GO WITH YOUR CLAIM. HERE ARE CLOSE-UPS OF WHAT I THINK YOU WANTED TO DOUBLE CHECK.......PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU CLAIM IS MISSING FROM THE JERSEY. WHAT IS IT WORTH AS A STORE MODEL? IS IT A STORE MODEL?

NOTICE WHAT APPEARS TO BE A TEAM REPAIR A FEW INCHES BELOW THE YEAR TAG STITCHING IN THE PICTURE. I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHAT IT IS I SHOULD SEE IN A 78 BRADSHAW BUT I AM NOT SEEING....JUST FOR FUTURE REFERENCE NOW THAT I AM LEARNING.

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I am no expert by any means, however I do think I know Bradshaw and Steelers jersey from the 70's and early 80's pretty well. As for the nameplate, your initial picture had it appearing crooked...with that additional photo, all looks well. OK...look at this picture from Super Bowl XIII (1978 NFL Season)....look at the amount material AFTER the sleeves stripes....'78 was the only year Bradshaw had this!!! A true indicator that this, in my opinion, is NOT GAME USED!

hof89
11-25-2005, 11:13 PM
Another 1978 shot of Bradshaw....see the extra material after the sleeve striping????

apujols04
11-25-2005, 11:13 PM
you Are Right. My Jersey Does Not Have That Additional Cloth On The End Of The Sleeve. Are You Sure They Had That Additional Cloth From Game #1 All The Way Through The Super Bowl On The Steelers 1978 Jerseys?

hof89
11-25-2005, 11:15 PM
Every photo I have referenced has had that extra material...

apujols04
11-25-2005, 11:15 PM
So That Makes My Jersey A Store Model, A Fake, Or A 1977 Jersey Carried Over To 1978 With A New Year Patch Which He Never Ended Up Using. Is It Possible This Is A 1977 Gamer? LOOKING AT THE 1978 TAG'S STITCHING ON THE BAG, IT DOES APPEAR THAT THERE MAY HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN A DIFFERENT YEAR TAG ON THERE AT ONE TAG. I NEED TO FIND SOME GOOD BRADSHAW PHOTOS (POSSIBLE PHOTO MATCH) FROM 1977 TO MAKE SURE IS ISN'T FROM THAT YEAR (1977) BEFORE I SELL IT TO THE HIGHEST EMAIL OFFER.

hof89
11-25-2005, 11:22 PM
I can't answer that question and anyone who can would be offering up pure speculation. This may have been a blank jersey lettered up by the team and given as a gift to someone, it's just simply unknown??? That's the problem with vintage Steeler jerseys....there are SO MANY questions with them!!! Again, I would say that its a RARE vintage jersey, which doesn't stand on it's own based up just looking what the jersey claims to be...

apujols04
11-25-2005, 11:27 PM
I can't answer that question and anyone who can would be offering up pure speculation. This may have been a blank jersey lettered up by the team and given as a gift to someone, it's just simply unknown??? That's the problem with vintage Steeler jerseys....there are SO MANY questions with them!!! Again, I would say that its a RARE vintage jersey, which doesn't stand on it's own based up just looking what the jersey claims to be...

So you would say there is no point to show it to an authenticator/auction house? I don't know for sure that this is not a 1977 jersey. I hope I can find out more info about the jersey but I guess it is highly unlikely a 1978 gamer unless it was used in the preseason or something before they added the length to the arms. thanks again!

hof89
11-25-2005, 11:27 PM
So That Makes My Jersey A Store Model, A Fake, Or A 1977 Jersey Carried Over To 1978 With A New Year Patch Which He Never Ended Up Using. Is It Possible This Is A 1977 Gamer? LOOKING AT THE 1978 TAG'S STITCHING ON THE BAG, IT DOES APPEAR THAT THERE MAY HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN A DIFFERENT YEAR TAG ON THERE AT ONE TAG. I NEED TO FIND SOME GOOD BRADSHAW PHOTOS (POSSIBLE PHOTO MATCH) FROM 1977 TO MAKE SURE IS ISN'T FROM THAT YEAR (1977) BEFORE I SELL IT TO THE HIGHEST EMAIL OFFER.

I have numerous photos of the Steelers/Bradshaw from 1970's and the problem lies with the quality of the photos from that era being to "grainy", but it doesn't hurt to look!
Questions:
1.) The stains on the #'s...are they imbedded in the jersey or could they potetially wash out?
2.) Is there any pilling of material in the shoulders arm area?
3.) Does the jersey appear to be heavily worn? Any turf burns?

apujols04
11-25-2005, 11:29 PM
I have numerous photos of the Steelers/Bradshaw from 1970's and the problem lies with the quality of the photos from that era being to "grainy", but it doesn't hurt to look!
Questions:
1.) The stains on the #'s...are they imbedded in the jersey or could they potetially wash out?
2.) Is there any pilling of material in the shoulders arm area?
3.) Does the jersey appear to be heavily worn? Any turf burns?

what is piling?

how do I search for turf burns?

should I wash the jersey to find out if the stains come out?

apujols04
11-25-2005, 11:33 PM
I don't have the experience to understand what I am looking for. Nothing is standing out to me as obvious except for the extreme amount of dirt and grime on the #'s. I can't even pick out what is good game use.

hof89
11-25-2005, 11:33 PM
So you would say there is no point to show it to an authenticator/auction house? I don't know for sure that this is not a 1977 jersey. I hope I can find out more info about the jersey but I guess it is highly unlikely a 1978 gamer unless it was used in the preseason or something before they added the length to the arms. thanks again!

Authenticators charge fees and based upon what has been said in this forum, there are alot of question swith it. I do think there is a chance that an authenticator could say it's good and then want to buy it from you and have it end up in some auction house going for big $$$. As for your questions...is it from '77, or pre-season '78 or from whenever, again is SPECULATION. If you have to keep asking questions, that you're trying to convince yourself that it's something it's not. Just enjoy it as a nice vintage authentic Bradshaw jersey...

hof89
11-25-2005, 11:36 PM
what is piling?

how do I search for turf burns?

should I wash the jersey to find out if the stains come out?

NO don't wash it! Leave it as is...just use your best judgement when it comes to wear...does it look worn to you? Does the dirt and grime appear to be manufactured?? Afterall, the Steelers wore their black jersey's predominatly at home on ARTIFICIAL TURF!! No dirt and grime can come from that!! Again, just keep as is and enjoy it in your collection...

apujols04
11-25-2005, 11:39 PM
Authenticators charge fees and based upon what has been said in this forum, there are alot of question swith it. I do think there is a chance that an authenticator could say it's good and then want to buy it from you and have it end up in some auction house going for big $$$. As for your questions...is it from '77, or pre-season '78 or from whenever, again is SPECULATION. If you have to keep asking questions, that you're trying to convince yourself that it's something it's not. Just enjoy it as a nice vintage authentic Bradshaw jersey...
Thanks again. i do wish I knew what his first preseason jersey in 1978 looked like. I would pay to see pics from that game. Either way it is a unique jersey. I like the idea that the Steelers may have given out this jersey as well. It would be cool if that was the case.

hof89
11-25-2005, 11:44 PM
I'll keep my eyes open for you, but I'm not sure if preseason pics from 1978 are around! Again, ALL the pictures I have seen have that extra material after the sleeves striping. Good luck in whatever you do!!!

apujols04
11-26-2005, 05:33 PM
I'll keep my eyes open for you, but I'm not sure if preseason pics from 1978 are around! Again, ALL the pictures I have seen have that extra material after the sleeves striping. Good luck in whatever you do!!!

HOF89,

What would be a good sell price based on FMV for this jersey if I was able to get Terry Bradshaw to sign it with the 4x SB Champs and HOF inscriptions? Is it legal/ethical for me to sell this jersey or even get it signed?

apujols04
11-26-2005, 06:21 PM
The bradshaw and unitas jersey have been sold as not game used but authentic jerseys. If anyone is interested in the staubach jersey for a similar deal please let me know.

both-teams-played-hard
11-26-2005, 11:08 PM
Pujols
I don't want to cockblock the buyer of your Bradshaw...but damn dude what was your hurry to sell?? Do you have an eBay account? When this jersey is for sale at a Major auction house, you might have regrets. No one spoke up with more information, 'cause they want the jersey for themselves! Do you think you received offers because these folks wanted an original "throwback"? I hate to come across as salty, but you sold this dream about "nice to have", "great addition to my collection", "these people wanted someone younger, who appreciates jerseys, to own them". I'm going back to my original response to your threads..."this is a joke".

apujols04
11-26-2005, 11:30 PM
I knew I just had to wait a minute to get a straight answer..I will not get conned into selling anything I own without showing to 2 or 3 authenticators. If somebody wants these jerseys, they must agree to me writing "not game used" onto the jersey. I will share where I received this tip, not to mention the legal ramifications of me selling a "like game used" jersey which somebody can attempt to tamper with. You sure did act completely honest in this situation.....exactly the problem people claim with the "game-used" industry. Nothing should be sold without a few atttempts and opinions on authenticity, and people should sell items with more than 1 letter like MEARS and LAMPSON together. And in addition, if I sell anything that is shown to not be authentic, I will write "not game used" on an appropriate place on the jersey.

apujols04
11-26-2005, 11:37 PM
Pujols
I don't want to cockblock the buyer of your Bradshaw...but damn dude what was your hurry to sell?? Do you have an eBay account? When this jersey is for sale at a Major auction house, you might have regrets. No one spoke up with more information, 'cause they want the jersey for themselves! Do you think you received offers because these folks wanted an original "throwback"? I hate to come across as salty, but you sold this dream about "nice to have", "great addition to my collection", "these people wanted someone younger, who appreciates jerseys, to own them". I'm going back to my original response to your threads..."this is a joke".

So what is the joke.....me saying I really wanted and appreciated these jerseys? I told the sellers that if they were something special, I would do something nice for them. The reason being, I spent most of my savings on these 5 jerseys, and they know I may need to sell a couple. I entertained offers to sell them as throwbacks b/c I was out a lot of money if they are all fakes. Someone wants to pay $2000 for a throwback and wants it unwashed and with the 78 tag intact (even though it leaves it possible to commit fraud). Nothing I sell should be left open for possible fraud.

apujols04
11-26-2005, 11:48 PM
http://www.gameworn.net/selling.html (http://www.gameworn.net/collecting.html)

STEP #7 I believe is the right thing to do with proven (by multiple authenticators) fake jerseys.

apujols04
11-27-2005, 12:36 PM
here we go.....a photo which proves a black steelers jersey can get dirty...

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hof89
11-27-2005, 01:08 PM
The prospective buyer of “apujols4” football jerseys (Bradshaw, Unitas and Staubach) contacted me and expressed his concerns about the seller. The prospective buyer stated that he had struck a deal to purchase the Bradshaw and Unitas jerseys NOT AS WORN, but as authentic jerseys of that era. I informed the buyer that I could only really comment on the Bradshaw and in my OPINION it was not game worn jersey of Bradshaw’s, but DEFINITLEY an authentic jersey!! He asked why and I informed him that if the jersey doesn’t stand on its own than there are issues. Meaning the jersey is tagged 1978, but WILL NEVER get photo referenced since that style wasn’t worn by Bradshaw in 1978…period!!! Is it possible that it was used at some other time? Sure, but that’s SPECULATION and anyone can do that!!! You need an EXPERT to tell you that?? Moreover, the prospective buyer told me “apujols4” showed all the jerseys in person to someone at Leland’s and they gave a thumbs DOWN TO ALL OF THEM!!! As many of you have stated with “apujols4”, he appears to be a fake, phony, who is using this forum to get a read on what is wrong with these jerseys and trying to “fix” the mistakes…as he has already indicated to the prospective buyer that he should have removed the 1978 year tag and then there wouldn’t have been so much controversy. This “apujols4” cancelled the deal with the prospective buyer and is now “shopping” these jerseys around to be authenticated as being game used. This hobby has become all about the $$$ and this “apujols4” is a disgrace to everyone who is legitimate…
:mad:
TO ALL AUTHENTICATORS WHO READ THIS FORUM BECAREFUL WITH THIS SELLER!!!!!!

apujols04
11-27-2005, 08:34 PM
The prospective buyer of “apujols4” football jerseys (Bradshaw, Unitas and Staubach) contacted me and expressed his concerns about the seller. The prospective buyer stated that he had struck a deal to purchase the Bradshaw and Unitas jerseys NOT AS WORN, but as authentic jerseys of that era. I informed the buyer that I could only really comment on the Bradshaw and in my OPINION it was not game worn jersey of Bradshaw’s, but DEFINITLEY an authentic jersey!! He asked why and I informed him that if the jersey doesn’t stand on its own than there are issues. Meaning the jersey is tagged 1978, but WILL NEVER get photo referenced since that style wasn’t worn by Bradshaw in 1978…period!!! Is it possible that it was used at some other time? Sure, but that’s SPECULATION and anyone can do that!!! You need an EXPERT to tell you that?? Moreover, the prospective buyer told me “apujols4” showed all the jerseys in person to someone at Leland’s and they gave a thumbs DOWN TO ALL OF THEM!!! As many of you have stated with “apujols4”, he appears to be a fake, phony, who is using this forum to get a read on what is wrong with these jerseys and trying to “fix” the mistakes…as he has already indicated to the prospective buyer that he should have removed the 1978 year tag and then there wouldn’t have been so much controversy. This “apujols4” cancelled the deal with the prospective buyer and is now “shopping” these jerseys around to be authenticated as being game used. This hobby has become all about the $$$ and this “apujols4” is a disgrace to everyone who is legitimate…
:mad:
TO ALL AUTHENTICATORS WHO READ THIS FORUM BECAREFUL WITH THIS SELLER!!!!!!




This is a joke. I think HOF89 is the person who struck a deal with me on these jerseys-b/c he has yet to identify himself. The condition on the trade we made was that the jerseys did not pass authentication by multiple of the major 4 authenticators. Once I told the buyer that if they did not pass authentication I would write "not game used" on them-then he freaked out. I get the feeling he was planning on tampering with them. I made my post about the jerseys being sold as fakes b/c I figured thats what it would take to get a straight answer.


I will not tamper with these jerseys in any way. I will have multiple authentications look at them (those used my Mastronet/Vintage Authentics/American Memorabilia). If all the authenticators say the jerseys are no good then the person who I agreed on the trade with gets the jerseys. he understood perfectly well that there was NO DEAL unless the jerseys were neither game issued or game worn. I posted all the pics so that if the jerseys do end up in an auction house, then you wuill see that they are unaltered from my original pics. If they are no good, I wikll write "not game used" on each and every one of them to help protect the hobby. I am not a crook. My propective possible buyer and HOF89 are either the same person or they are working together to make some shady deal. One of them went as far to say that if I show the jerseys to authenticators, then they will make sure the jerseys are pulled from and all auctions. Vintage, AMI, and Mastro use their authenticators for a reason. cause they are good. Yes, the Lelands guy expressed certain doubts about SOME of my 5 jerseys but reminded me that is was solely his opinion. Everyone here believed in multiple opinions. If all the specs match on these jerseys--then where did they come from? They may just be game issued. I WILL NOT TAMPER WITH THESE JERSEYS!

apujols04
11-27-2005, 08:45 PM
The prospective buyer of “apujols4” football jerseys (Bradshaw, Unitas and Staubach) contacted me and expressed his concerns about the seller. The prospective buyer stated that he had struck a deal to purchase the Bradshaw and Unitas jerseys NOT AS WORN, but as authentic jerseys of that era. I informed the buyer that I could only really comment on the Bradshaw and in my OPINION it was not game worn jersey of Bradshaw’s, but DEFINITLEY an authentic jersey!! He asked why and I informed him that if the jersey doesn’t stand on its own than there are issues. Meaning the jersey is tagged 1978, but WILL NEVER get photo referenced since that style wasn’t worn by Bradshaw in 1978…period!!! Is it possible that it was used at some other time? Sure, but that’s SPECULATION and anyone can do that!!! You need an EXPERT to tell you that?? Moreover, the prospective buyer told me “apujols4” showed all the jerseys in person to someone at Leland’s and they gave a thumbs DOWN TO ALL OF THEM!!! As many of you have stated with “apujols4”, he appears to be a fake, phony, who is using this forum to get a read on what is wrong with these jerseys and trying to “fix” the mistakes…as he has already indicated to the prospective buyer that he should have removed the 1978 year tag and then there wouldn’t have been so much controversy. This “apujols4” cancelled the deal with the prospective buyer and is now “shopping” these jerseys around to be authenticated as being game used. This hobby has become all about the $$$ and this “apujols4” is a disgrace to everyone who is legitimate…
:mad:
TO ALL AUTHENTICATORS WHO READ THIS FORUM BECAREFUL WITH THIS SELLER!!!!!!


In addition, I know for a fact there are RAMS jerseys out there with WETRAK saying a jersey was worn in 2004 but has a 2003 year tag. I think I heard there are other certified as 2004 gamers with 2005 year tags. My Bradshaw jersey is DIRTY and that leaves the possibility it could be photo matched. I have yet to begin to do the research and watch the game tapes from 77 and 79. HOF89--unless you were the Steelers equiptment manager, then you know no more than other "steelers experts" I find it funny how you and C.A. are working so hard to get these jerseys out of my hands when there are so many "questions." Makes me think that if they are not game issued/used, then you are wanting to tamper with them. The Lalands guy was 1 man, and this whole thing is an inexact science. I have been told he doesn't authenticate barly anything game used without knowing the source---and I did not tell him mine. he may just be like the ones of you who are holding the fact I have 5 jerseys agaianst me when it comes to authentication.

DEFINE AN AUTHENTIC JERSEY? Game Issued? It seems like that is what you and C.A. are calling this jersey. if it is not a store model, and not game used...then what is it? Nobody will get their hands on these if they are proven to be not game issued or game used without my handwriting stating "not game used" on the jersey itself in an appropriate location.

That is what I promise...in addition to me saying I WILL NOT TAMPER WITH THESE JERSEYS TO MAKE THEM LOOK GAME USED IN ANY WAY!

If HOF/C.A. want the jersey for display purposes and want to protect the hobby, then why object when I want to wash it and write not game used on them to protect future possible victims if the jersey is "no good" as you both say. Or are you 2 the same person?

apujols04
11-27-2005, 08:51 PM
Lastly, I only said I would consider removing the 1978 year tag AFTER I first wrote "not game used" on the jersey. I have done neither of these things at this point but if the jersey is sold as a fake/doctored jersey--then I will consider removing the 1978 tag from the hobby with a scissors, in addition to writing in sharpie "not game used" on the front or back of the jersey (at the buyers choice). MY JERSEYS WILL NOT END UP LIKE THE PROBLEMATIC NFL AUCTION JERSEYS SO ALL TALK SO BAD ABOUT. I WILL NOT LEAVE IT AS A POSSIBILITY! There will always be haters thats the way it is---especially when they want something you have. Both HOF89 and CA have contacted me on multiple, multiple occasions offering me upwards of $2500 cash/trade if i would sell them ONE "authentic fake/doctored" jersey which is not game issued or game used. Strange for someone saying so many bad things about them! I don't care if these are used or not at this point. I just want the facts, a few detailed letters about the facts from RESPECTED PROFESSIONAL authenticators. I don't believe C.A. or HOF89 falls into this definition. Lelands told me many positives about my jerseys, but they did not write a letter. if they did, I would be happy to share it. It is one mans opinion just like HOF89's opinion.

apujols04
12-03-2005, 01:34 AM
The prospective buyer of “apujols4” football jerseys (Bradshaw, Unitas and Staubach) contacted me and expressed his concerns about the seller. The prospective buyer stated that he had struck a deal to purchase the Bradshaw and Unitas jerseys NOT AS WORN, but as authentic jerseys of that era. I informed the buyer that I could only really comment on the Bradshaw and in my OPINION it was not game worn jersey of Bradshaw’s, but DEFINITLEY an authentic jersey!! He asked why and I informed him that if the jersey doesn’t stand on its own than there are issues. Meaning the jersey is tagged 1978, but WILL NEVER get photo referenced since that style wasn’t worn by Bradshaw in 1978…period!!! Is it possible that it was used at some other time? Sure, but that’s SPECULATION and anyone can do that!!! You need an EXPERT to tell you that?? Moreover, the prospective buyer told me “apujols4” showed all the jerseys in person to someone at Leland’s and they gave a thumbs DOWN TO ALL OF THEM!!! As many of you have stated with “apujols4”, he appears to be a fake, phony, who is using this forum to get a read on what is wrong with these jerseys and trying to “fix” the mistakes…as he has already indicated to the prospective buyer that he should have removed the 1978 year tag and then there wouldn’t have been so much controversy. This “apujols4” cancelled the deal with the prospective buyer and is now “shopping” these jerseys around to be authenticated as being game used. This hobby has become all about the $$$ and this “apujols4” is a disgrace to everyone who is legitimate…
:mad:
TO ALL AUTHENTICATORS WHO READ THIS FORUM BECAREFUL WITH THIS SELLER!!!!!!

Now that we have the new rules on accusations, let me respond to this post. The "deal" I agreed to make for "authentic" jerseys had the stipulation the must be authenticated as store bought, and not game issued. I did not make a deal for any of these jerseys with anyone unless the jersey we discussed was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the exact jersey was not indeed not ever game issued, but was store bought. I now hear there were no available store bought jerseys with the specs on my jersey. I am having MEARS and Lampson look at all 3 football jersets. PSA/DNA and mears will look at the 2 baseball jerseys, one of which Musial just signed for me with multiple unique inscriptions. As far as the clear ACCUSATION that I will try to fix the jerseys if there are anything wrong with them--NO!

HOF...about the commment about the many who say on this forum I appear to be a fake and a phony.......all these comments came from the 2-3 people who you helped try to dupe me out of the jerseys by using words such as authentic retail store bought jersey, and fakes when it came to my all of my jerseys. At the same time, CA was lying to me about what we were considering the definition of authentic. he swore they were fakes, and agreed there was no deal if they were game issued or better. he then freaked freaked out when I was about to write "not game used" on unobvious parts of the jersey if they failed multiple forms of authentication--in order to protect the hobby. The agreed deal was that in order for there to be any trade between chris arone and I, the jerseys I was trading him had to be retail store bought, and not game issued or used. Therw would be no deal if this jersey was less than a store bought (aka a "fake"-which is a word we both should understand as meaning a forged jersey with COMPLETELY improper specs, forged tagging,etc..) This hobby is only about money for me when a person like you and CA are offering me a small amount for a potentially valuable jersey.

apujols04
12-03-2005, 01:43 AM
The ACCUSATION about me saying I should have removed the tag is completely untue. It was actually the other way around. i was NEVER thinking about possibly even wanting to remove the year tag on the bradshaw jersey, mush less actually doing so. NO WAY. the jersey will be kept as is until it leaves my hands.

Mike Heffner
12-04-2005, 12:21 PM
I am the "Lalands guy" who viewed these jersey in person while in St. Louis. I would not authenticate them, buy them, or take them on consignment. The source does not matter, there are problems as stated by others in this thread. Just wanted to clear that up and let everyone know that I was the one who looked at them.

Mike Heffner
President-Lelands.com

ChrisCavalier
12-04-2005, 03:15 PM
I am the "Lalands guy" who viewed these jersey in person while in St. Louis. I would not authenticate them, buy them, or take them on consignment. The source does not matter, there are problems as stated by others in this thread. Just wanted to clear that up and let everyone know that I was the one who looked at them.

Mike Heffner
President-Lelands.com

Hello Mike-

I'm sure there are a number of people here, including myself, who want to thank you for taking your time to come on the forum and share your thoughts. Thanks again and good luck with your upcoming auction.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO- Game Used Universe

beantown
12-04-2005, 05:25 PM
I am the "Lalands guy" who viewed these jersey in person while in St. Louis. I would not authenticate them, buy them, or take them on consignment. The source does not matter, there are problems as stated by others in this thread. Just wanted to clear that up and let everyone know that I was the one who looked at them.

Mike Heffner
President-Lelands.com
__________________________________________________ ___________

Hello forum members, my name is Chris Arone and I am the individual who contacted David Archibald, aka: “apujols04” on the Bradshaw jersey and am here to defend myself from his ridiculous allegations. I informed David that I was a Bradshaw /Steelers fan and wanted to know if I could purchase/trade for the Bradshaw jersey. David kept asking me for my opinion and I told him it appeared that it was a rare authentic jersey (I guess my terminology could have been wrong and game issued or team issued would have been more appropriate for David). I don’t even know if game issued jerseys existed in that era, since if it had team specifications, it was considered worn! Nonetheless, I was planning on purchasing the jersey as NOT WORN OR USED. David kept hounding me as to what the jersey is and I am not an authenticator but a collector and could only offer up my opinion. David and I made a deal for the purchase/trade of the Bradshaw which he reneged on after several hours. He claimed I was out to deceive him and that these jerseys could be worth so much more than what the deal was struck for. All long I was trying to complete a deal in which we were BOTH comfortable with and at one point we were, but David reneged. I am not out to deceive anyone and was trying to acquire a jersey that is rare but NOT USED OR WORN like David would like all of them to be!!! Moreover, a recent post, all of David’s jerseys were given thumbs down by Mr. Mike Heffner of Leland’s and others on the forum, which I had known PRIOR to working out a deal with David. Deceit on my behalf…ABSOLUTLEY NOT! As for me not wanting David to write not game used on them, that is true, why ruin something that is a rare vintage jersey?? Moreover, why would I want to subject myself to the potential criminal and civil liability that would go those actions and how would this jersey ever resurface as game worn or used when there are so many photos/discussion of it posted within this forum?? Mr. Archibald will continue to “shop” these jerseys around till someone gives them a thumbs up, for he has back peddled in this forum more often than a circus clown, and flipped flopped more often than John Kerry in a presidential debate.

p.s….EBAY user id: “apujols04” …also from St. Louis…same person or coincidence?? Latest feedback is NEGATIVE….failed to give correct contact information and never paid….and I’m trying to deceive someone?? ENOUGH SAID…..

Eric
12-04-2005, 05:55 PM
Thanks to Mike Heffner for posting in this thread and the one regarding the Pele jersey.
In this moderator's opinion, this thread has deteriorated into nothing but arguing and I respectfully suggest to you all that we leave this thread behind and move on with our discussion of the hobby.
What do you think?
Eric
moderator

beantown
12-04-2005, 05:58 PM
Thanks to Mike Heffner for posting in this thread and the one regarding the Pele jersey.
In this moderator's opinion, this thread has deteriorated into nothing but arguing and I respectfully suggest to you all that we leave this thread behind and move on with our discussion of the hobby.
What do you think?
Eric
moderator

Eric,

I agree 100%! These jerseys should be added to your list of BAD jerseys, so no one may get duped in the future.....