George Brett Jersey

[hblakewolf]

Current offering on Ebay, "1993 Brett Pre-game with Grey Flannel LOA"
http://cgi.ebay.com/George-Brett-Game-used-Royals-jersey-1993-Grey-Flannel_W0QQitemZ8813826614QQihZ005QQcategoryZ2489 8QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I have had quite a few Royals jerseys and pregames, however, none have looked like the one offered above.

*All of mine from 1993 had white tackle twill number(s) and the players' name on back

As such, can a Forum Reader with Royals knowledge please shed some light on this. Does someone have a photo of ANY Royals player in 1993 wearing a jersey similar to the one above, void of name and number on back, especially a superstar such as Brett? Does anyone own a Royals pre-game from 1993 to compare it with?

Any help is appreciated.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[suave1477]

Howard I dont know of any all though I did find George Brett on GettyImages in 2001 with a batting practice jersey on with no name or number.

The interesting thing is this is the second time this seller listed this Jersey the first time was about 2 months ago.

[ironmanfan]

I decided to look into this a little bit myself and pulled from my personal library an excellent picture book (which I've had autographed) about the career of George Brett entitled "George Brett; Last of a Breed" by Brett with Steve Cameron (copyright 1993). If anyone has this book, on page 80 they do depict a color picture of Brett (with his back to the camera looking over his left shoulder) joking with Hal MacRae. The picture isn't dated, but from the looks it appears to be from MacRae's managerial tenure (MacRae started his mangerial career with KC in '91). They are definitely wearing mesh warmups and Brett's is devoid of any number nor NOB. However, I will say that it appears that the manufacturer is Majestic (from the front and right sleeve of MacRae's top) and that the collars are the type that can fold up/down. Obviously the BP top that GFC has "authenticated" is a Russell with a flat collar. My questions would be without a name/number how would a player/coach/manager know what BP top is theirs? My only point in bringing this up is that I have also now seen photographic proof of Brett BP tops without names/numbers on back (for what its worth).

[geoff]

This person had this jersey on ebay before and it did not sell.I emailed him and asked what he was looking to get and he said 500.00.That was a month ago at least.Geoff

[ironmanfan]

Refer to Getty Image # 52261792 for the type warmup I referred to in an earlier post...

[hblakewolf]

The Getty image you reference shows Brett in a Majestic pullover pre-game with a 1/2 zipper at the neck, a completely different style/brand then the one in question. I have had a few of these, and they are identified with the player’s uniform number written on the collar tag.

Back to my original post and question-how can the Brett Russell jersey being offered on Ebay be attributed to George Brett and have a Grey Flannel letter of authenticity stating it is game worn from 1993? There is absolutely no identification other than an autograph to definitively prove this was issued or even worn by Brett. No name in the collar, no 5 written on the tag, etc. Is this based on the Brett autograph on the front? Most teams provide charities with various types of jerseys. This looks to me like one of these jerseys. A blank jersey that has been autographed by the team’s superstar.

I'm still curious to know how the jersey in question can have a LOA stating it is a Brett gamer?

I will send a copy of this to Richie at Grey Flannel and try to see what his LOA was based on.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

I will send a copy of this to Richie at Grey Flannel and try to see what his LOA was based on.

Are you serious?

Why would you email Ritchie when you know he is going to give you crap in return because he hates you?

Didn't I make it clear to you on this forum and on the phone last week (by the way, you never faxed me Howard, did I not give you my fax number?) that you could email or call Ritchie and tell him his hair is on fire, and he'd tell you to take a hike so you could post how rude he was to you on this forum?

It may be a legitimate concern, but coming from you the past has shown that you will not be taken seriously. You are not a buyer or seller with Grey Flannel, and the company has basically told you they are not going to communicate with you. Find a shill email address to contact them, have someone do it privately on your behalf, but you know the result when you contact Ritchie personally.

[hblakewolf]

Joel-
When we spoke last week via phone, you indicated you just woke up. After reading your post, I have to believe you were either half asleep or coming off a binge during our brief conversation.

Joel, I clearly said for you to send me an email with your fax number, as I was in my car with my family and found it a bit difficult to drive, write and talk on my cell. Remember this conversation? As of today, you have never sent me an email with your fax number. My email address is always on my Forum posts following my name.

You further note that I'm not a buyer or seller with Grey Flannel. Do you have access to their database of customers? I suggest you stick to the game of poker or maybe writing posts to defend the various "second rate" auction houses, but please, don't put words in my mouth. Over the last year, I have bid and won items in the Grey Flannel auctions.

Regardless of any personal feelings, Grey Flannel (Richie, Keith or whomever signs their name to their LOA’s) has an obligation to be held accountable for items they have provided a LOA for and signed off as being "game worn". As such, I have asked the Owner himself for additional information that may assist in learning how a generic batting practice jersey with no player identification, year tag or name/number sewn on back can have a LOA written for it, indicating it was worn by a player, or in this case, a Hall of Famer. I have been involved for over 20 years in this hobby, and sold my share of batting practice jerseys. This is the first time I have ever seen a Royals “circa 1993” jersey with no identification being attributed to a certain player. I look forward to hearing back from Richie, as I'm always trying to further educate myself on game worn jerseys.

As always Joel, keep siding with those all important auction houses even when the facts are clearly not in their favor. One would think you would have learned, especially from your recent blunders defending James Brown. Other than keeping every possible avenue open for you to consign your items, I'm not sure why you continue to defend such folks.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net



Are you serious?

Why would you email Ritchie when you know he is going to give you crap in return because he hates you?

Didn't I make it clear to you on this forum and on the phone last week (by the way, you never faxed me Howard, did I not give you my fax number?) that you could email or call Ritchie and tell him his hair is on fire, and he'd tell you to take a hike so you could post how rude he was to you on this forum?

It may be a legitimate concern, but coming from you the past has shown that you will not be taken seriously. You are not a buyer or seller with Grey Flannel, and the company has basically told you they are not going to communicate with you. Find a shill email address to contact them, have someone do it privately on your behalf, but you know the result when you contact Ritchie personally.

[trsent]

Howard, how could you buy from a company that treats you like Grey Flannel does? You are not a police man, and Ritchie has made it clear that he hates you so why do you continue? Integrity of the hobby?

You made your posts on this forum to alert the general public, but you know if you personally email Ritchie you will receive a reply that will irritate you because as I keep reminding you about how he feels about you personally, he doesn't care if it comes from you.

Maybe before you email Grey Flannel, you should have a friend of yours email Grey Flannel and get a response so maybe you don't personally have to email Grey Flannel.

[hblakewolf]

Joel-
I have no time for petty nonsense you make reference to. Grey Flannel offers some amazing jerseys, and as such, if an item becomes available through them or at one of their auctions, I will purchase it.

My post on this Forum was not to "alert the general public" as you note. I'm always trying to educate myself, and as such, have never seen a 1993 Royals BP void of any tagging being attributed to a specific player. Possibly another Forum reader has had dealings with either the royals or a Royals layer and can allow all of us to learn.

Your idea of having another person email Grey Flannel on my behalf is absurd. Why would you even suggest this? Unless I was involved with the Witness Protection Program, why would I have to hide behind someone else to do my homework? If individuals want to continue to provide LOA's and "expert opinions", then they can also provide additional information on these items when asked. No need to play games, write emails under a bogus name or have friends take time from their workday. Joel, maybe this is how you desire to conduct business, however, I'll pass on this type of deceptive behavior.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net



Howard, how could you buy from a company that treats you like Grey Flannel does? You are not a police man, and Ritchie has made it clear that he hates you so why do you continue? Integrity of the hobby?

You made your posts on this forum to alert the general public, but you know if you personally email Ritchie you will receive a reply that will irritate you because as I keep reminding you about how he feels about you personally, he doesn't care if it comes from you.

Maybe before you email Grey Flannel, you should have a friend of yours email Grey Flannel and get a response so maybe you don't personally have to email Grey Flannel.

[trsent]

As always Joel, keep siding with those all important auction houses even when the facts are clearly not in their favor. One would think you would have learned, especially from your recent blunders defending James Brown. Other than keeping every possible avenue open for you to consign your items, I'm not sure why you continue to defend such folks.


Howard, please copy any one post where I defended James Brown, Historic Auctions or stated that memorabilia in question was legitimate or not.

Maybe Ritchie is right, you made a comment there that really has me pissed off this morning. Prove it, back it up now because you are in the wrong. Maybe he is right, maybe you are a waste of time. I didn't think so until this comment I have highlighted above, which was so out of line because you will search all posts and never once find where I defend James Brown, Historic Auctions or any memorabilia that was brought into discussion.

It was a low blow because you do not know what to do anymore because you so badly want to be a police officer for Grey Flannel because you know they will not talk to you anymore because the owner hates you.

So, what do you do next? I do not know if the Brett item is legitimate or not, but I warned you and you got insulted and crossed the line with a real dumb statement.

Howard, respond when you are ready to retract that stupid comment.

[hblakewolf]

Joel-
I see that once again you are true to your old colors, "DON'T BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU". Just continue to be the mouth piece for all of the auction houses that are too chicken shi- to come on here and actually respond to an item in question. I think the recent post by OTISMALIBU sums you up quite well.......

If ABC Auction house listed the Shroud of Turin today and it had a Wilson tag and 3" of extra length, trsent would be the first to defend it.

And sprinkle in these references to:

- poker
- his ignore list
- where he's living
- someone's lack of debating skills
- a big name playa that he just got off the phone with

I'm not even sure if trsent is a real person. Might just be a board auto-response to the questioning of any item. :)

Can I make a suggestion? Next time you send your box of consignment goods to the various auction houses you so dearly defend here, include a quick note with it and ask these folks to jump on the Forum themselves and finially answer the many questions directed to them. Not only would it be a welcomed change, but it might free you up from defending the owners all day.

Just a thought....

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net




On a related note...

I wonder if ESPN starts showing Scrabble tournaments, if every 3rd person on every online message board will suddenly be talking about bingos, triple-triples, hooks, etc.


Howard, please copy any one post where I defended James Brown, Historic Auctions or stated that memorabilia in question was legitimate or not.

Maybe Ritchie is right, you made a comment there that really has me pissed off this morning. Prove it, back it up now because you are in the wrong. Maybe he is right, maybe you are a waste of time. I didn't think so until this comment I have highlighted above, which was so out of line because you will search all posts and never once find where I defend James Brown, Historic Auctions or any memorabilia that was brought into discussion.

It was a low blow because you do not know what to do anymore because you so badly want to be a police officer for Grey Flannel because you know they will not talk to you anymore because the owner hates you.

So, what do you do next? I do not know if the Brett item is legitimate or not, but I warned you and you got insulted and crossed the line with a real dumb statement.

Howard, respond when you are ready to retract that stupid comment.

[trsent]

Howard, you crossed the line.

You couldn't find any posts where I was defending James Brown so you became the pussy that you are and posted comments by someone else putting me down instead of stating that you are wrong.

You have defamed my character here, stating that I defended James Brown. I challenged you to back up your statement, and you found you couldn't. Fine, I guess Ritchie is right. You have nothing better to do all day than insult fine people who try to help the hobby.

You couldn't find proof that their George Brett uniform is genuine, I am sorry, if you didn't burn your bridge maybe you could contact them to discuss it you you burned a bridge.

I have to reiterate, if a host at a resturant makes fun of you for being unemployed, would you still eat dinner at his restaurant? I didn't think so, but if the owner of an auction house makes fun of you for being unemployed, you'll still spend your money with them?

I was telling you not to email Ritchie, but you like to annoy him, so you keep coming back for more.

MY CHALLENGE IS STILL OPEN - PROVE WHERE I EVER DEFENDED HISTORIC AUCTIONS OR RETRACT YOUR STATEMENT.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Joel
Please don't insult Howard. And for that matter, don't call him something that you know nothing about...

[trsent]

Joel
Please don't insult Howard. And for that matter, don't call him something that you know nothing about...

Did you have something to say? You want to defend Howard? Please, PROVE TO ME WHERE I DEFENDED JAMES BROWN IN ANY POST I HAVE EVER MADE ON THIS FORUM or don't get into my pissing match.

I love people like you who jump into a conversation to go to your friend's aid when they made a stupid comment that I find defaming to the time and effort I made to help what is still an unsolved situation.

MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS, HOWARD IS A BIG BOY AND CAN TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF.

[Eric]

Everyone stop now. I am tired of reading this crap.
Eric

[trsent]

Eric, you know my position. Howard stated that I defended James Brown and I asked him to reprint any post where I have. I am so confused, but the comment embarassed me and I am still waiting for his answer, not a copy of a post from some Malibu guy who was upset because I have drifted in my posts over time.

At least I entertain myself.

[CollectGU]

Howard Wolf is like the Elliot Spitzer of this forum!.. Anyway Howard, can you look into this with Dave Grob for me. I figured sicne you've spoken with him, maybe you can pass this along, or get a response, as this seems to be a bigger travesty than a George Brett BP jersey:

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/site/bidplace.aspx?itemid=4605
I would like to know MEARS was able to in good conscience, to authenticate the Yogi Berra's catcher's mask in Robert Edwards auction that went for $15,000. They are well aware that these same masks could be purchased from a catalogue back then. So my question is - What distinguished it as Berra's mask? Were there any markings that linked it to Berra? Did they ask Yogi how he was able to authenticate it devoid of distinguishing characteristics and write them a letter? Or did they simply take his word for it? Notice that Dave Busing owned the mask and also note that the Letter that Yogi signed cost $1,500, which seems like a TON of money for a letter.

[CollectGU]

Joel-
I see that once again you are true to your old colors, "DON'T BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU". Just continue to be the mouth piece for all of the auction houses that are too chicken shi- to come on here and actually respond to an item in question. I think the recent post by OTISMALIBU sums you up quite well.......

If ABC Auction house listed the Shroud of Turin today and it had a Wilson tag and 3" of extra length, trsent would be the first to defend it.

And sprinkle in these references to:

- poker
- his ignore list
- where he's living
- someone's lack of debating skills
- a big name playa that he just got off the phone with

I'm not even sure if trsent is a real person. Might just be a board auto-response to the questioning of any item. :)




I'd like to add that Howard would be the first to correct the board and let them know that HIS shroud of Turin was devoid of the extra length tag, and anyone who collects shrouds knows that they are cut to be tight fitting and never have extra length. He would then rip on Lou Lampson for authenticating the Ripken St. patty's Day jersey and reiterate that AMI is the worst auction house becasue they don't pay their consignors on time

[trsent]

You know, I don't want this to become a find what's wrong with Joel, find what's wrong with Howard thread. We both have those who find us unappealing, but we both have a place in the sun.

I do have my own flock forming as posted when I was awaken by a call about a post that had nothing to do with me this morning.

[topekabob]

You guys, forget who started the thread, it doesn't matter! There's a George Brett BP jersey that is not only being listed as "game worn" but AUTHENTICATED (?) as game worn that has absolutely no evidence (and of course we don't count an autograph) that George Brett ever wore it. None - zippo - nada - iie (that's my Japanese I remember for no). So, how about we stop attacking Howard and start wondering how anyone can offer a LOA of authenticity based on "Hey, he signed it, has some wear, he must have wore it!!!"

Looking for Tornadoes and enjoying Matt Stairs,

Topekabob

[CollectGU]

Attacking Howard? Have you read the entire thread?

[hblakewolf]

Topekabob-
Thanks for trying to get this train wreck back on the tracks and providing a quick summary of what I was asking in my original post.......

HOW CAN A GENERIC PRE-GAME WITH NO PLAYER I.D. BE ATTRIBUTED TO GEORGE BRETT AND HAVE A GREY FLANNEL LOA STATING IT IS A GAMER FROM BRETT????????

I sent an email to the folks at Grey Flannel through their own website and also another email directly to Richie Russek's attention at Grey Flannel (2 separate emails) asking the same question and seeking an answer. As of this post, I have not had a response to either.

Dave CollectGU-I have emailed Dave Grob in past about my concerns with specific items that have the MEARS LOA. He has ALWAYS answered me directly and within a day. No need for me to get involved in your concern about the Berra mask or hold your hand. If you go to the MEARS site, you will be provided with an email address that will allow you to send a message to Grob. Joel Alpert also suggests a similar path for me to communicate with Richie at Grey Flannel. Joel suggested I have a friend send Richie an email, as this may get a response. This is ridiculous. If auction houses or authenticators can't be held accountable or take the time to address concerns about their items, then it should be brought to light. This "hobby" is simply too big and too much $$$ is involved for this type of behavior. Bottom line-if you write a LOA and profit from it, then by all means you should also be held accountable when questioned about a concern relating to this item.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[suave1477]

Hey Howard can I join your flock or do you want to join mine?

[trsent]

After discussions with Eric last week and a weekend away from business, I am now officially making my post that Eric and I discussed that I make at this moment in time.

While heavily debating with a fine fellow forum member, our debate got hot and heavy and I used a term of slang that was offensive. It was meant in fun, but I can also see where the term would have been considered offensive to people who don't know how often I take issues to the point of my warped sense of humor crossing the line of fine behavior.

In the meantime I am sorry if my now removed use of slang offended anyone, I was not trying to do such.

As for my debate on the forum, I have two points left:

1. I was attempting to tell a friend not to email or contact a company with their issues with an item, as from what I have been told their emails are not read because of previous discussions between the two. There has to be another way, because if the concerns are genuine, the company will never receive them from him personally.

2. A statement was made that stated that I defended an auction house in the past. Defense means that I attempted to prove an item or items genuine that may have been brought into question on the forum. Needless to say, I felt this statement defaming to me, because I never once defended the auction house in question. I did spent countless hours trying to work with the auction house for the future of the industry and for their future, but in the end promises were not kept and I broke off ties of this nature. For the record, I have spoken to such individual once since I broke off ties because I felt promises were not kept to me and this forum.

I believe in this industry just as my fellow forum member does and in our debate I felt my integrity was challenged as if I was attempting to keep questionable items out of the industry. This is not the case, I try to get along with both sides of the industry and sometimes my intentions are taken the wrong way.

[hblakewolf]

Forum readers-

As is the Forum policy, I emailed Richie Russek at both his email address he has communicated with me in the past and also the general Grey Flannel email address about my concerns with this jersey. Please see my initial post regarding these concerns. Several days have passed, however, I have yet to receive any type of response. I did hear from several Forum readers, however, that have knowledge with Royals and pre-game jerseys. From these emails, the authenticity of this particular jersey is questioned by ALL. There is absolutely nothing about this jersey that would allow one to write a LOA attributing this to the 1993 season and/or ever being worn by Brett. It appears that this is a generic pre-game that Brett has autographed in 1993 and noted as such.

I have recently had similar authenticity concerns with shirts that have LOA's from MEARS, Hunts and Vintage Authentics. After sending an email to all 3, I heard back the same day as the email being sent. Likewise, Mears/Hunts agreed that a particular jersey in question had tagging issues, and as such, removed it from the upcoming Hunts auction. Folks, this is called integrity and ethics. I am hopeful that my similar concern with the Brett jersey will be answered, and I eagerly await hearing back from Richie or someone at Grey Flannel.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

What a way to end the day. :)

[geoff]

The seller emailed me tonight and told me he would take 500.00 for the jersey.Isaid no thanks i will pass.

[ChrisCavalier]

I have recently had similar authenticity concerns with shirts that have LOA's from MEARS, Hunts and Vintage Authentics. After sending an email to all 3, I heard back the same day as the email being sent. Likewise, Mears/Hunts agreed that a particular jersey in question had tagging issues, and as such, removed it from the upcoming Hunts auction.
Hello Howard,

I read your comment above and was hoping you could clarify something for me. I am presuming the above comment was made in reference to the George Brett jersey that was slated to be in Hunts' upcoming auction and later removed. If that is correct, I'm a little unclear regarding your statement that Mears/Hunt agreed there were tagging issues.

Specifically, when I read the thread on the Mears website it appeared there were two questions that needed to be addressed. According to the Mears site you expressed concerns that:

1) The jersey had tagging issues; and
2) The jersey was owned by Dave Bushing in conjunction with Hunt auction and was authenticated by Mears.

However, while your comment above makes it seem as though there was a recognition of the tagging issue, I didn't see anything in Dave Grob's post suggesting that was the case. I believe Dave Grob stated the reason they took the jersey out of the auction was based on the conflict of interest issue. And, unless I read the post incorrectly, I don't think there was ever any recognition of any issues with the tagging.

Thus, I was hoping you could clarify if there were, in fact, issues with the tagging or if it was simply a conflict of interest issue. That is, if the jersey was not owned by Bushing would it have been allowed to remain in auction?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Sincerely,
Chris

[hblakewolf]

Chris-
Great points. Grob indicates that he desires to availd any conflicts of interest. Although this may be what is in writing on their site, he is also aware that the tagging is not standard Wilson issue and thus, the jersey is bogus. Regardless of him making note of the tagging, he is aware of it.

I suggest you copy Dave Grob and the folks at MEARS with this same question and seek their reply, as well.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net