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View Full Version : My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!



nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 10:20 AM
I will have this in-hand as early as today. Glove dates to May ’03 and shows lots of use and dirt along with Manny’s initials “MAR” and number “24” inscribed on the red labeling. Originally from Phil Castinetti / Sportsworld and the now well documented transaction with Manny where Mr. Castinetti went right to Manny’s house and bought a large amount of memorabilia. So far I have only been able to get a very solid style match on the glove (piping around top of hand cutout is brown vs. black in the few images I’ve uncovered) but the use and provenance is amazing and I couldn’t be happier to add this to my collection!

kellsox
02-23-2010, 10:30 AM
Nice glove. The Manny Yard Sale was well documented and the source of many Manny GU items. If it originated from that transaction, why does the letter ID a clubhouse attendant rather than Manny himself as the source?

nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 10:36 AM
Good question. Either Mr. Castinetti didn't put much thought into the LOA or it was in fact acquired pre-yard sale and held til a later date? Bottom line is most of know the connection is legit and has been publicized. And I know and trust where I'm getting it from and have been tracking it for months.

Manram
02-23-2010, 10:42 AM
Nice glove

joelsabi
02-23-2010, 11:13 AM
I will have this in-hand as early as today. Glove dates to May ’03 and shows lots of use and dirt along with Manny’s initials “MAR” and number “24” inscribed on the red labeling. Originally from Phil Castinetti / Sportsworld and the now well documented transaction with Manny where Mr. Castinetti went right to Manny’s house and bought a large amount of memorabilia. So far I have only been able to get a very solid style match on the glove (piping around top of hand cutout is brown vs. black in the few images I’ve uncovered) but the use and provenance is amazing and I couldn’t be happier to add this to my collection!

Very cool. Is the MAR for Manuel Aristides Ramirez on the label? the middle letter is kinda blurred in the photo.

nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 11:17 AM
Very cool. Is the MAR for Manuel Aristides Ramirez on the label? the middle letter is kinda blurred in the photo.

That's what I'd say. Classic sloppy handwriting. Explains why he has other people write 24 and 99 on his bats sometimes.

Rob L
02-23-2010, 11:27 AM
Very cool. I have a 2004 jersey from the Manny Firesale. The LOA I got is hand written by Phil. I have a copy of the Boston Globe newspaper article about Manny's sale if you want it.

allstarsplus
02-23-2010, 11:34 AM
That's what I'd say. Classic sloppy handwriting. Explains why he has other people write 24 and 99 on his bats sometimes.

Mike - Great pickup and you did a good job doing your homework. That may be the best you can do with items of Manny unless they are MLB hologram'd.

There is never an easy transaction with Manny as I can attest to from my personal encounter with Manny in 2008 regarding his 500 HR jersey.

As even his friends say, Manny is Manny. I guess that sums it up.

nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 11:42 AM
Very cool. I have a 2004 jersey from the Manny Firesale. The LOA I got is hand written by Phil. I have a copy of the Boston Globe newspaper article about Manny's sale if you want it.

That's really cool. I'm not 100% this glove was from the historic sale so I probably shouldn't maintain it was. I just know the path I took to find this thing was through a very tight-knit group of private Red Sox/Manny guys that have some of the biggest authentic collections around. During the time it was acquired, Sportsworld was the authority on Red Sox game-used from what I can tell.

gameused
02-23-2010, 02:31 PM
That's really cool. I'm not 100% this glove was from the historic sale so I probably shouldn't maintain it was. I just know the path I took to find this thing was through a very tight-knit group of private Red Sox/Manny guys that have some of the biggest authentic collections around. During the time it was acquired, Sportsworld was the authority on Red Sox game-used from what I can tell.

Michael,

I was offered this exact glove in 2009 and I can prove it's not legit and has been altered since I have seen it. It's not from the sale where Phil went to Manny's apartment, did Phil tell you that?

Bobby

nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 02:38 PM
Michael,

I was offered this exact glove in 2009 and I can prove it's not legit and has been altered since I have seen it. It's not from the sale where Phil went to Manny's apartment, did Phil tell you that?

Bobby

Please email me to discuss - michael_benko@yahoo.com

Thanks Bobby.

Michael

allstarsplus
02-23-2010, 02:59 PM
Michael,

I was offered this exact glove in 2009 and I can prove it's not legit and has been altered since I have seen it. It's not from the sale where Phil went to Manny's apartment, did Phil tell you that?

Bobby

Can I add an UH-OH. Mike, I hope it works out. You definitely style matched it to the Getty photos.

Please report back after you talk to Bobby!

nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 03:01 PM
Michael,

I was offered this exact glove in 2009 and I can prove it's not legit and has been altered since I have seen it. It's not from the sale where Phil went to Manny's apartment, did Phil tell you that?

Bobby

I made a mistake in my initial description linking it to that sale. I just saw Phil had a tie to it and made my own conclusion. But it does still have Sportsworld tied to it and I've been told has never been offered to anyone after the original owner got it straight from Phil. It took me months and months to even get pictures of it so it's hard to believe it was out being shopped around. Interested to hear what you have to say!

allstarsplus
02-23-2010, 03:48 PM
I made a mistake in my initial description linking it to that sale. I just saw Phil had a tie to it and made my own conclusion. But it does still have Sportsworld tied to it and I've been told has never been offered to anyone after the original owner got it straight from Phil. It took me months and months to even get pictures of it so it's hard to believe it was out being shopped around. Interested to hear what you have to say!

Mike you have definitely gone the extra mile even including calls to Rawlings. The Manny Ramirez red embroidery looks good and even the placement where the "M" in Manny is next to that crease.

I know you are saying a "style match" and not claiming a photo match which I think is a good call.

murfsteve25
02-23-2010, 04:19 PM
I made a mistake in my initial description linking it to that sale. I just saw Phil had a tie to it and made my own conclusion. But it does still have Sportsworld tied to it and I've been told has never been offered to anyone after the original owner got it straight from Phil. It took me months and months to even get pictures of it so it's hard to believe it was out being shopped around. Interested to hear what you have to say!

interested in hearing about this also

LastingsMilledge85
02-23-2010, 04:38 PM
In my eyes that is not style match, look at the piping above the Rawlings logo. The one on Manny is brown, while the one without Manny is black (At least that's what the picture looks like).

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=35576&stc=1&d=1266938405

nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 04:53 PM
In my eyes that is not style match, look at the piping above the Rawlings logo. The one on Manny is brown, while the one without Manny is black (At least that's what the picture looks like).

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=35576&stc=1&d=1266938405

Exactly... the STYLE of the gloves is very similar but it's not an identical match (Photomatch). There are just 2 pictures of Manny wearing this style glove in 2003 that come before Oct (playoffs) meaning over 150+ reg season games, ST games, workouts, etc without anything to go from.

CampWest
02-23-2010, 06:14 PM
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=35576&stc=1&d=1266938405

Two things concern me... The lace on the middle web off the index finger. The Getty picture the brown lace is on the "fingers" side of the white seam line, but in the acquired glove its on the thumb side of the white seam line.

Also the getty glove has a brown trim edge on the hand vent hole whereas the acquired glove appears to have black trim edge.

And maybe a non-issue but the thumb laces look longer in the getty image, but of course the difference could be another knot tied since that picture was taken.

I know you are not calling it a photo match, but I think it raises a question and disproves it as a photomatch, unless there is something else I cannot see.
Does it still qualify as a style match with those differences?

nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 06:16 PM
Michael,

I was offered this exact glove in 2009 and I can prove it's not legit and has been altered since I have seen it. It's not from the sale where Phil went to Manny's apartment, did Phil tell you that?

Bobby

Bobby, you're killing me with the wait!

Please email me michael_benko@yahoo.com or post for all of us on here what evidence you have. I'm fielding lots of calls and emails from people that want to know and most importantly in this case I need to know. We've essentially retraced the glove back to Manny and it's only been with one owner after Phil and never offered for sale to anyone. Apparently it was still in the original bag up until last week when the photos were done. Even Phil has been reached for comment. Thanks in advance!

nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 06:25 PM
Two things concern me... The lace on the middle web off the index finger. The Getty picture the brown lace is on the "fingers" side of the white seam line, but in the acquired glove its on the thumb side of the white seam line.

Also the getty glove has a brown trim edge on the hand vent hole whereas the acquired glove appears to have black trim edge.

And maybe a non-issue but the thumb laces look longer in the getty image, but of course the difference could be another knot tied since that picture was taken.

I know you are not calling it a photo match, but I think it raises a question and disproves it as a photomatch, unless there is something else I cannot see.
Does it still qualify as a style match with those differences?

Sure it's a style match... and a pretty good one for a 2003 glove. That was never the issue and you're correct when you say I never claimed it to be an exact photomatch. The "issue" here, and the only thing I've ever been concerned with, is that a well-known Manny collector from these boards said it's not legit, was doctored, has evidence, and was offered the same glove last year.

Do we really think Rawlings cranks out identical player-quality gloves time after time without even minor alterations? Someone actually sits down and hand crafts these. Maybe they didn't have brown piping around when the glove in question was made so they went with black. Maybe it was repaired or replaced post-use. To me, it's the same as the fact that no two bats are the same, or that ball marks and other mysterious markings may show up after photos were taken. I think it's a pretty major accusation to question Sportsworld and the small number of collectors that have seen this piece in the last several years without some pretty hard conclusive evidence.

LastingsMilledge85
02-23-2010, 06:29 PM
I thought style match meant it looked EXACTLY the same as one in a photo, but there were no marks or indications that it was the EXACT one to call it an actual "match?"

gameused
02-23-2010, 07:52 PM
Bobby, you're killing me with the wait!

Please email me michael_benko@yahoo.com or post for all of us on here what evidence you have. I'm fielding lots of calls and emails from people that want to know and most importantly in this case I need to know. We've essentially retraced the glove back to Manny and it's only been with one owner after Phil and never offered for sale to anyone. Apparently it was still in the original bag up until last week when the photos were done. Even Phil has been reached for comment. Thanks in advance!

Michael,

Sorry to keep you waiting. I'm still at work and will be home in an hour, really busy day for me. I apologize for keeping you waiting for so long.

Thanks,
Bobby

CampWest
02-23-2010, 07:56 PM
Sure it's a style match... and a pretty good one for a 2003 glove. That was never the issue and you're correct when you say I never claimed it to be an exact photomatch. The "issue" here, and the only thing I've ever been concerned with, is that a well-known Manny collector from these boards said it's not legit, was doctored, has evidence, and was offered the same glove last year.

Do we really think Rawlings cranks out identical player-quality gloves time after time without even minor alterations? Someone actually sits down and hand crafts these. Maybe they didn't have brown piping around when the glove in question was made so they went with black. Maybe it was repaired or replaced post-use. To me, it's the same as the fact that no two bats are the same, or that ball marks and other mysterious markings may show up after photos were taken. I think it's a pretty major accusation to question Sportsworld and the small number of collectors that have seen this piece in the last several years without some pretty hard conclusive evidence.

I don't recall ever stating the glove was a fraud or not game used. I read a post from a well respected Manny collector claiming it was questionable and there are some inconsistencies between this glove and the only "style match" photos presented. I said nothing about Sportsworld or any collectors that have seen the piece. I don't recall making any accusations.

All I stated was that those inconsitencies would concern me if I was the buyer when combined with the concerns from the other Manny collector who flat out stated it was an altered fake. Its being stated that Manny only used that "style" of glove for a very short time in 2003, if he used that style so sparingly, I would not expect many many gloves with multiple variations in lacing locations and color to have been made for him, much less multiple variations of the same sparingly used glove to have been game used.

My sincerest apologies for offending you, sportsworld or any other collectors. Though I honestly don't see how I could have by just pointing out some lacing differences and asking a question for my own personal education.

nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 08:02 PM
I wasn't refering to you!!

I'm talking still about Bobby's claim and waiting to see what he has to say before moving forward...

gameused
02-23-2010, 09:28 PM
Here's the photos.....took me a while to locate them as I had to search my yahoo mail.

The glove had a Dominican last name(cant remember the name)written in silver pen which can barely be seen on the 2nd photo ring finger slot and also the MPR 20 was altered to MAR 24.

I showed this glove to a couple of glove experts and they both stated that Manny gets fielding gloves from different company reps, in hopes that he would use them and this was most likely given to one of his Domincan buddies for use.

nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 10:14 PM
Wow! I can't say I'm shocked b/c you generally know exactly what you're talking about, but that's crazy right there. The glove was inspected and identified as the same glove. Thank you for mentioning this to me. The glove is being brought to Sportsworld to be shown to Phil so he can see firsthand. I don't think anyone had ill intent with this attempted transaction, but it's always a strike against the hobby when bad stuff finds its way in. Thankfully I'm not the only one here that's a bit disturbed and there are some guys that will hopefully get to the bottom of things. MB

gameused
02-23-2010, 10:17 PM
Here's the last name that was written.

AWA85
02-23-2010, 10:20 PM
Not always good news to collectors, but this forum continues to amaze me with the helpful information and guidance provided.

Hope you get it all squared away!

gameused
02-23-2010, 10:29 PM
Wow! I can't say I'm shocked b/c you generally know exactly what you're talking about, but that's crazy right there. The glove was inspected and identified as the same glove. Thank you for mentioning this to me. The glove is being brought to Sportsworld to be shown to Phil so he can see firsthand. I don't think anyone had ill intent with this attempted transaction, but it's always a strike against the hobby when bad stuff finds its way in. Thankfully I'm not the only one here that's a bit disturbed and there are some guys that will hopefully get to the bottom of things. MB

Michael,

Couple of questions I have for you.......do you know the date Phil purchased this glove or when did the guy that sold you the glove purchase it from Phil?

Also, you mentioned that the provenance is from a very tight-knit group of private Red Sox/Manny guys that have some of the biggest authentic collections around. Can you tell me who they are or can you email me privately with some names?

Thanks, Bobby

prosvr1
02-23-2010, 10:49 PM
Bobby please email directly about this glove
Thanks prosvr1@tds.net

gameused
02-23-2010, 11:06 PM
Bobby please email directly about this glove
Thanks prosvr1@tds.net

If you have a question for me, you can go ahead and post it here. Also, please identify who you are.

Bobby

suave1477
02-23-2010, 11:09 PM
After reviewing carefully everything said I see everyone either failed to mention or missed one of the most biggest pieces to the obvious puzzle.......... now maybe I am wrong but I am judging by the 2 pictures shown. So if I am wrong I apologize ahead of time.

If you look at the actual glove purchased and the one Manny wearing in the Getty photo!!

The Getty photo shows one leather strap down the webbing of the glove and the one purchased shows 2 straps coming down the glove.

Now you may say well it's the angle of the Getty photo you do not see the second one but if you look closely the angles are not that far off and the width of the webbing looks a lot shorter on the one Manny is wearing in the Getty photo than the width on the purchased glove.

There definitely seems like a noticeable width difference in the webbing and one to pay close attention too, which would be the reason it (Getty photo) would only be able to have 1 strap down.

prosvr1
02-23-2010, 11:11 PM
I have information about the glove, and when you contact me you will know who I'm This is a bad deal all the way around. I would like to know what information you have, So I can get this taken care of for the person who owns the glove and was going to sell it to Mike

nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 11:18 PM
If you have a question for me, you can go ahead and post it here. Also, please identify who you are.

Bobby

Bobby you'll know who this is. It's who I would have sent you to anyway. It sounds like this whole thing will be resolved soon enough. Thanks!

nationals2k9
02-23-2010, 11:23 PM
After reviewing carefully everything said I see everyone either failed to mention or missed one of the most biggest pieces to the obvious puzzle.......... now maybe I am wrong but I am judging by the 2 pictures shown. So if I am wrong I apologize ahead of time.

If you look at the actual glove purchased and the one Manny wearing in the Getty photo!!

The Getty photo shows one leather strap down the webbing of the glove and the one purchased shows 2 straps coming down the glove.

Now you may say well it's the angle of the Getty photo you do not see the second one but if you look closely the angles are not that far off and the width of the webbing looks a lot shorter on the one Manny is wearing in the Getty photo than the width on the purchased glove.

There definitely seems like a noticeable width difference in the webbing and one to pay close attention too, which would be the reason it (Getty photo) would only be able to have 1 strap down.

We've got it under control.

The only puzzle here is when the glove was altered to look like Manny used it. We're well past the slight differences in the two gloves pictured. I originally posted just to share what I thought would be a nice pick-up and then this thing went nuts in many directions. Thanks!

gameused
02-23-2010, 11:39 PM
Bobby you'll know who this is. It's who I would have sent you to anyway. It sounds like this whole thing will be resolved soon enough. Thanks!

Michael,

Sounds like the person that asked me to e-mail him has something to hide, he just joined the forum and cant identify himself.

I also asked you a few questions about when the glove was purchased by Phil and when the guy selling it to you bought it from Phil and you have not answered back.

I dont understand why we cant discuss this right here in the open.

Bobby

nationals2k9
02-24-2010, 12:04 AM
Michael,

Sounds like the person that asked me to e-mail him has something to hide, he just joined the forum and cant identify himself.

I also asked you a few questions about when the glove was purchased by Phil and when the guy selling it to you bought it from Phil and you have not answered back.

I dont understand why we cant discuss this right here in the open.

Bobby

I have no contact with Phil so I have no idea when he got it. I'm unsure when the guy who bought from Phil got it b/c that was being handled by the 3rd party who you are familiar with that is just asking you email him b/c he doesn't have your email. Some people don't like to get caught up in all of this chatter and I don't blame them fpr being more private than others. I'm free to discuss whatever on this forum but it's not me that knows all of the behind the scenes stuff. Again, you know who the guy with the new name is. He just got a new email and changed some things. Thanks

Rob L
02-24-2010, 01:04 AM
I wonder about the LOA itself. Although the clubhouse attendant source is always a bit dicey, my understanding is that Sportworld is pretty careful with what they sell. I wonder if the LOA even belongs to this glove.

CampWest
02-24-2010, 11:19 AM
I wonder if the LOA even belongs to this glove.

Good question. I'm always leary of pieces of paper that cannot be linked specifically to an item, ie no numbering or meaningful description to tie items in, we had a similar discussion about a UDA George Brett glove on here a couple weeks ago, similarly the UDA letter just said "glove" or something and could not definitively be attributed to the glove that was being sold... The most specific this letter gets is "Rawlings glove". Hmm, tough to commit that to specifically this Rawlings glove moreso than any other Rawlings glove. Also I'm leary of the wording "used by". Doesn't say used in an official MLB game or anything like that, so I wonder what constitutes "used by" in their minds. Did he put it on to keep his hand warm in the dugout. Did he "use" it in pregame warm-ups. Did he "use" it as a gift to a friend or another player. Or did he just pick it up and try it on before discarding it. The vagueness concerns me in LOAs like this one. I'd be hard pressed to prove that Manny never "used" it and thats the only assertion made. Generic and vague LOAs mean little to me and honest authenticators make mistakes or get fooled every once in a while. I'm pretty skeptical by nature (and as required by my career) and to me vague = warning flags.

murfsteve25
02-24-2010, 09:46 PM
Any more information on this situation? I'm very interested in seeing what happens from here.

Michael: Did you purchase the glove? Or were you lucky enough to find out all this information right before you pulled out your wallet?

-Steve

nationals2k9
02-24-2010, 10:09 PM
Any more information on this situation? I'm very interested in seeing what happens from here.

Michael: Did you purchase the glove? Or were you lucky enough to find out all this information right before you pulled out your wallet?

-Steve

I'll give you two boring answers for now: everything is being looked at and hopefully taken care of & I'm financially fine with this one!

sportscentury
02-25-2010, 12:30 AM
Sorry to nitpick, but it is not a style-match. If there are differences between the two styles (e.g., color of piping), then it cannot be a style-match. A style-match is where the item looks identical to what is shown in the in-action photo, but a photo-match cannot be determined (due to low resolution of the in-action photo, insufficient unique characteristics of the item, etc.).

sportscentury
02-25-2010, 12:33 AM
I have no contact with Phil so I have no idea when he got it. I'm unsure when the guy who bought from Phil got it b/c that was being handled by the 3rd party who you are familiar with that is just asking you email him b/c he doesn't have your email. Some people don't like to get caught up in all of this chatter and I don't blame them fpr being more private than others. I'm free to discuss whatever on this forum but it's not me that knows all of the behind the scenes stuff. Again, you know who the guy with the new name is. He just got a new email and changed some things. Thanks

Doesn't this new user have a name registered with GUU? This would be easy enough to check. What am I missing?

FENWAY
02-26-2010, 03:59 PM
Uh oh, hope my # 24 Sox issued is legit :D
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff72/mvalz/6xtc-1.jpg

allstarsplus
02-26-2010, 04:24 PM
Sorry to nitpick, but it is not a style-match. If there are differences between the two styles (e.g., color of piping), then it cannot be a style-match. A style-match is where the item looks identical to what is shown in the in-action photo, but a photo-match cannot be determined (due to low resolution of the in-action photo, insufficient unique characteristics of the item, etc.).

Style match probably wasn't a 100% accurate term as there were differences, but Mike went through a lot of due dilligence to make sure it was a Manny Ramirez player model glove right down to the color of the piping and Web Design as he called the Pro Glove dept at Rawlings.

He checked photos and talked to people and relied on the advice he was given. Also keep in mind the back story Mike was given for the provenance. It sounded at worst a backup glove and at best a game used which is why the price was $1,500 and not $3,000.

At the end of the day, Bobby saved to the day.

I think for Mike and collectors here, the GUU community stepped up and Mike has been promised all of his money back!

murfsteve25
02-27-2010, 06:21 AM
Mike has been promised all of his money back!

This is the best part of the situation. I'm happy that Mike is getting his money back, but im curious to know why the glove was sold as game used? My thinking on all of this was that whoever Mike bought the glove from, that person obtained it from the guy who bought all the stuff from Manny. Was this not the case? Just wondering what the true history behind the glove is...

nationals2k9
02-27-2010, 07:15 AM
This is the best part of the situation. I'm happy that Mike is getting his money back, but im curious to know why the glove was sold as game used? My thinking on all of this was that whoever Mike bought the glove from, that person obtained it from the guy who bought all the stuff from Manny. Was this not the case? Just wondering what the true history behind the glove is...

You're right. Talk to me offline michael_benko@yahoo.com and I can fill you in Steve. Money has been returned and for me, story put to rest.

diwhite
04-27-2014, 08:56 PM
I posted this on another thread already, but it looks like the glove has surfaced again:
http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=76444

Phil316
04-27-2014, 10:01 PM
I emailed Mears about it. Hopefully they do the right thing and remove it.