Auction House Practices...

[trsent]

A few posts on another thread led me to thinking about something.

Sellers have ended items for sale on eBay because they have received a large offer to end the auction and sell the item immediately. The bidding is canceled and there is no foul. eBay may not approve of this practice, but we all know it does happen.

It is also made clear to anyone looking at the auction that the item is no longer available for sale, so no shill bidding is taking place.

Now, let's turn the subject. How often do you think this happens with private auction houses? I have not worked a live/internet/phone auction in years, but I know in the old days often an offer would come in for an item that was accepted before the end of the auction. What does the auction house then do?

Could they possibly put a ceiling bid on the item so it cannot possibly sell to anyone else? Do you think this may have happened in recent auctions where items sold for much more than what we consider reasonable because the item was pulled for sale before the end of the auction and the bids were increased so that it was an unsold item?

[ham1963]

trsent Sellers have ended items for sale on eBay because they have received a large offer to end the auction and sell the item immediately. The bidding is canceled and there is no foul. eBay may not approve of this practice, but we all know it does happen

Joel, I understand your point about this but we all know that this against E-Bay policy the policy that you agreed to when you started selling on E-Bay. As far as your statement that there is no foul I wonder if Ken Lay and all his Enron buddys felt the same way when they were taking peoples money? As far as I know E-Bay sets a final fee on what your item sells for and that is the charge you pay for E-Bay to sell your item. And if a person closes an auction early because they can get more money E-Bay does not get the fee. The fee that you agreed to pay when your item sells when you listed that item with E-Bay that you got that big offer for. I am not trying to start anything here but I remember a wise person in history once stated that stealing is stealing and there is other way to look at it.
John

[trsent]

Joel, I understand your point about this but we all know that this against E-Bay policy the policy that you agreed to when you started selling on E-Bay. As far as your statement that there is no foul I wonder if Ken Lay and all his Enron buddys felt the same way when they were taking peoples money? As far as I know E-Bay sets a final fee on what your item sells for and that is the charge you pay for E-Bay to sell your item. And if a person closes an auction early because they can get more money E-Bay does not get the fee. The fee that you agreed to pay when your item sells when you listed that item with E-Bay that you got that big offer for. I am not trying to start anything here but I remember a wise person in history once stated that stealing is stealing and there is other way to look at it.
John

John, I guess I feel that as I seller who spends around $500.00 a month in fees with eBay, I need to make sure my profits are maximized. If a buyer will only buy from me because they cannot wait or whatever their personal reason, I can't cost my family money. I also spend around $1000.00 a month in fees with PayPal, so they are making money off me also.

So, every time you get into your car and you are driving 55 in a posted 55 speed limit zone on the highway and someone passes you at a higher speed, do you call the police to report this crime?

Is it a crime if someone contacts me to buy an item that I have listed on eBay, or if someone comes into my retail outlet and sees the item and asks for a price and I end the auction? Are you telling me that you lose sleep over what money eBay is earning or not?

Really, your points make me think that when a kid ran in the hallway at school that you felt they were breaking the law. Same concepts, different world, but you get my point - Who cares?

Enron, speeding, running in the hallways - Let's not progress on this conversation because the point is eBay has a poor buy-it-now system which makes this discussion moot. They need to have a better system so buy-it-now can be offered without a reserve price and then it will be perfect for eBay and their sellers.

My thread was started on the concept that when an eBay auction is ended the customer is made aware of such, what happens when similar happens with a private auction house and so far no one has commented.

[otismalibu]

eBay may not approve of this practice, but we all know it does happen.

- fee avoidance
- shill bidding
- charging a Paypal usage fee
- overcharging for shipping (see fee avoidance)
- not to mention how many listings would fall into the "Bogus" category


Anything goes on eBay (well, almost). And if you sell quite a bit of product on eBay, you're given an even longer leash.

[trsent]

What eBay wants is to have you end your current auction and relist the item with a buy-it-now for the price determined by you and the one time buyer. Would people be happy if all sellers ended their auctions then posted the item at a one-time for sale auction? You are all concerned about eBay losing a commission because you don't like that some sellers will end the auctions to sell to an offer they find reasonable. Why do you care so much about eBay's profits?

I don't think the complainers would care still they want the auction to run for it's scheduled time.

Again, this was not to be my topic, but I see no one has commented about private auction houses in this discussion so I guess my point is that no one on this forum knows what happens when a private auction house receives an offer for an item that they can't refuse and they pull the item from the auction, but they never end the bidding. I previously stated this could explain why an item sells for such a high price out of nowhere.

I guess this practice doesn't bother anyone, but selling an item to a reasonable offer and properly ending your eBay listing does bother people. I know if the money is right, I am not breaking the law, I am making sure my family is fed at the end of the day.

[otismalibu]

Going back to the original post...who really knows what goes on at an auction house? Not me. I've bid on a total on one item at an auction house and I won...at my max bid. Was it legit? Was there shilling going on? I'll never know.

At least on eBay I can sort of see my competition. Except when the bidders IDs are private. Not that I'm mentioning any names :D

[trsent]

Yes, I use private auctions so my bidders for higher end items are not bothered by people who wish to try to sell to my customers or people who wish to comment on my items.

It is a simple function to use when listing an item on eBay, and I recommend anyone selling higher end merchandise to use it. Why should someone with a SPAM eBay account be able to email my bidders and try to sell them a similar item? I have access to send 2nd chance offeres, why would I allow someone selling a similar item on eBay to be able to email the bidders in my auction to alert them to their similar item when I may offer the item to them myself?

Did you wish to pick on me anymore Otis? Let me know your next issues with me any my personal and business life...

Poker. Sex. Strip Clubs. Dennis Rodman Parties. Concerts. Sporting Events. Harness Racing. Fine Cigars.

Did I forget to mention anything else from my personal life?

[otismalibu]

We've discussed private auctions before. I understand some of the reasons a sellers uses this format. But as an eBay buyer, why set yourself up to be shilled? If Broadway Rick will shill using a public auction, I'm guessing there's more than a few sellers using the private auction for that very purpose.

Why should someone with a SPAM eBay account be able to email my bidders and try to sell them a similar item?

eBay may not approve of this practice, but they have to feed their families too.

[trsent]

So one seller is caught shill bidding and now everyone is at risk?

I do not understand how if someone bids a price on eBay no one but eBay knows what the high bid price is, so if the shill bid is more than the legitimate bidder's bid, then the seller loses big because then they cannot sell their item and they still have to pay eBay fees.

I do not approve of shill bidding. As a buyer you can pick and choose what and where to bid on. I always tell new buyers on eBay to figure the shipping price in before placing their bid so they do not pay more than they are willing to when the whole project is said and done.

Next...

[otismalibu]

Always snipe at the last second.

[trsent]

Always snipe at the last second.

Which snipe service do you recommend? I have never used once since the first ones back in the beginning, and they failed a high percentage of the time so I stopped using them.

I'm sure they work great now, so who do you use?

[stkmtimo]

I guess my point is that no one on this forum knows what happens when a private auction house receives an offer for an item that they can't refuse and they pull the item from the auction, but they never end the bidding. I previously stated this could explain why an item sells for such a high price out of nowhere.


Joel, not sure if you were alluding to this or not, but why wouldn't the person making the out of this world offer just bid in the auction up to the high price they were willing to pay for the item? Wouldn't this be easier than going through all of the red tape involved with contacting the auction house and making offers, etc.?

Tim

[trsent]

Joel, not sure if you were alluding to this or not, but why wouldn't the person making the out of this world offer just bid in the auction up to the high price they were willing to pay for the item? Wouldn't this be easier than going through all of the red tape involved with contacting the auction house and making offers, etc.?

Tim

Tim, some private auction houses own some of the items in the auction and if a ripe offer comes from a regular customer, it happens that they take the offer, but don't pull the item - They bid it up.

Years ago I saw it happen, and those auctions were before computers so the customers never saw the final price anyway so it didn't matter. Now with final prices posted all over the internet, I wonder how often it happens. I don't doubt that the practice I discussed does.

[otismalibu]

Which snipe service do you recommend? I have never used once since the first ones back in the beginning, and they failed a high percentage of the time so I stopped using them.

I've never used a service, although I've heard of a few that don't seem too expensive. I do my own sniping.

Still surprises me when I see seasoned buyers bidding early in an auction. Why give your competition the better part of a week to decide if they want to bid higher? Give them five seconds...or less.

Two big pet peeves as an eBay buyer. Sellers who don't accept Paypal and people who bid early...or worse, often.

[suave1477]

Otis I totally agree with you on the bidders who bid early, especially the ones who start bidding when the item is first listed.

Here is how I look at it. Why drive up the price now why not wait till the end and try to get it for lower????????????

Never did understand those bidders!!!!:rolleyes:

[trsent]

Often I am one of those bidders and here is why:

I don't have a snipe service and if I don't bid early, I'll forget about the item. End of story, I don't care how much I want the item, I'll forget about it even if I put it in my Watching list.

[earlywynnfan]

I'm with Joel (EGAD!) on the bidding early thing; I, too would forget, so i put my best (or nearly best) bid in and hope it withstands all you snipers. I actually had some guy email me, accusing me of shill bidding because I was "driving the price up." How was I, individually, driving the price up? If I'm bidding, so is someone else! (Of course, this jerk had won a total of like 20 items over his career, but he's accusing me!)

Ken