Ozzie Smith Jersey in Vintage Authentics Auction?

[Robert Sanders]

What do forum members think of this jersey? I note that the numbers on the size tag are blue, when I think that they should be black. Is this the only red flag?

http://www.vintageauthentics.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=119653348&prmenbr=57735959&aunbr=120000058

[Robert Sanders]

Oops! That should be Vintage Auctions! My apologies!

[Robert Sanders]

Grandpa is awake now...:D

Let me try this again with a correct identification of the auction house:

What do forum members think of this jersey? I note that the numbers on the size tag are blue, when they should be black. Any other red flags?

http://www.vintageauthentics.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=119653348&prmenbr=57735959&aunbr=120000058

Thanks!

Robert

[David]

My favorite auction posting title boo boo was when an auction house had a technical difficulty for a few hours. When the auction was back to running, someone posted "ABC AUCTIONS IS FIXED!!!" Some people misinterpreted this.

I didn't use the auction house's name a second time, so as to not embarrass them again.

[sox83cubs84]

One thing that does puzzle me is the "O SMITH" NOB, as, unless a coach with that last name was with the team, Ozzie was the only Smith on the Redbirds in 1996. Jeff or Dave, can you chime in on this one?

Dave M.
Chicago area

[Robert Sanders]

One thing that does puzzle me is the "O SMITH" NOB, as, unless a coach with that last name was with the team, Ozzie was the only Smith on the Redbirds in 1996. Jeff or Dave, can you chime in on this one?

Dave M.
Chicago area

I just had a look at Getty Images and see that he did have "O SMITH" on the back of his jersey that year.

[Birdbats]

The O. Smith thing isn't an issue. He did that most (if not all) years with the Cards, whether there was another Smith on the team (Lonnie, Lee, Bryn, Keith, Willie) or not. Here's what concerns me: I've heard from people who know that Ozzie ordered and received many, many jerseys in his final season, most of which were given away as souvenirs. Jim Yackel has one on his site; note the autograph is in the same place.

http://www.jimyackel.com/1OSmith04-08BB.JPG

Is it such a stretch to think someone would add a Busch patch and a tailored strip, dirty it up and call it a gamer? I have a Ron Gant issued jersey from '96 -- it also has the tailored strip. Look at the differences below (auction jersey on left, mine on right). Also, look at the differences in the Busch patch. The offered jersey's patch seems to have thicker black lines and other differences.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w232/birdbats/1996jerseycomparison.jpg

I don't know if the auction jersey is legit or not based on the photos, but I'd sure like to see it in person and compare it to a known legit exemplar. In other words, I'd need to do a lot more research before I'd feel comfortable with this one.

[Birdbats]

Man, that jersey at auction looks a lot like Jim Yackel's jersey. I just left Jim a message to see if anyone bought his jersey recently. Will keep you posted.

[Birdbats]

Here's the jersey on Jim Yackel's site (white background, smaller photos) next to the Vintage Authentics jersey (black background, larger photos). Am I the only one who sees the similarities?

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w232/birdbats/1996jerseycomparison2.jpg

[Robert Sanders]

The shared similarities in alignment on both jerseys of the lettering, numbers and buttons is scary. Add to that the autographs, which appear to my eye to be EXACTLY the same in EVERY detail, it seems very likely that we have another example on the market of a 'Lou Lampson gamed' jersey. I'll be curious to learn what you hear back from Jim.

[nickacs]

I'm not a baseball jersey expert by any means, but isn't usually the lower portion of the jersey where the front tagging is, is tucked in for a game? Just seems "odd" that yea the jerseys look 99.9% the same, but the "dirty" tagging is one area of difference. I'm sure the lower portion of a jersey can become un-tucked by slides/etc, but seems odd to me.

Hey, we've read on here some Ebay guy that was "dirtying up" NFL jerseys to mimick dirt/scuff marks, so it wouldn't be surprising to me someone might do the same here to get a jersey sold.

Seeing where it's begin auctioned and another Lou "special", I would say there's definitely some concern here, in my opinion.

Just my 2cents :)

[skinsfan0521]

I agree that the Busch patch shows several differences, but the biggest thing to me is the signature. The signature is EXACTLY the same including the lightness in places and the extra marker "streak" on the left of the "t". Basically, NO signature is exactly the same, so that to me shows that this is the same jersey. Plus, the Busch patch shows quite a bit of differences. Also, the "T" on the jock tag is a different thickness.

[sox83cubs84]

Good calls, Jeff and Robert...had I had the time toinvestigate Getty, I would have seen the same thing.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[Schmoozer]

Man, that jersey at auction looks a lot like Jim Yackel's jersey. I just left Jim a message to see if anyone bought his jersey recently. Will keep you posted.

Birdbats (Jeff), I'm dying to hear what he told you, as it's obviously the exact same jersey (because of the signature exact similarites).

[Birdbats]

I talked to Jim Yackel this morning. He told me he hasn't updated his site in a while and that he did, indeed, sell his Ozzie Smith jersey before Christmas to someone who was "buying it as a gift."

After talking with Jim, I called Vintage Authentics and spoke with Mark, then sent Mark comparative photos and links to Jim's site. We'll see what happens from here.

[Robert Sanders]

I talked to Jim Yackel this morning. He told me he hasn't updated his site in a while and that he did, indeed, sell his Ozzie Smith jersey before Christmas to someone who was "buying it as a gift."

After talking with Jim, I called Vintage Authentics and spoke with Mark, then sent Mark comparative photos and links to Jim's site. We'll see what happens from here.

It seems that nothing has happened yet. What a shame.

[Birdbats]

Just received this e-mail reply from Mark Redmond at VA:

Hello Jeff,

We don’t think it’s the same jersey. There is no evidence of restitching and the tags show more wear/coloring etc than the issued jersey you mentioned.

Thank you,

Mark

[Robert Sanders]

Just received this e-mail reply from Mark Redmond at VA:

Hello Jeff,

We don’t think it’s the same jersey. There is no evidence of restitching and the tags show more wear/coloring etc than the issued jersey you mentioned.

Thank you,

Mark


Hmm...adding a patch that wasn't there before does not constitute 'restitching'. And a few 'games' in the washing machine will certainly yield more wear than when it was a game issued jersey on Jim's site.

[nickacs]

Just received this e-mail reply from Mark Redmond at VA:

Hello Jeff,

We don’t think it’s the same jersey. There is no evidence of restitching and the tags show more wear/coloring etc than the issued jersey you mentioned.

Thank you,

Mark


Not surprised. I've gotten burned once for 4 figures in their last auction and will never do it again. Oh yea, the ARod "game worn" '07 jersey in their current auction is just like the fake Jeter I got from them last time. Please don't bid on it. :mad: I'm done with them and their notorious "love" for Mr. Lampson and his "letters".

[Birdbats]

Yeah, not sure why they're feeling so confident about this one. I'd agree there is no "re-stitching" because no original element was removed -- things simply appear to be added. Tag wear is easy to fake. And the tag color is a simple matter of photo lighting. They're missing the forest for the trees. It doesn't seem to bother them that the autographs are identical, right down to the unusual stray dot by the Z. The identical poor placement of the TH in Smith doesn't seem to bother them. The fact that it has a lesser-quality retail patch on the sleeve -- one that is available on multiple online sites -- doesn't seem to bother them. And the fact that Yackel's jersey sold in November and this jersey shows up now doesn't seem to raise a red flag. I feel bad for the person who ends up buying this jersey. I also kind of feel bad that VA doesn't care enough about its reputation to at least pull the jersey and research it more thoroughly. The evidence seems to suggest that they could be auctioning a fraudulent jersey, but instead of doing more legwork, they just offer lame rationalizations and look the other way. Sad.

[Schmoozer]

Just received this e-mail reply from Mark Redmond at VA:

Hello Jeff,

We don’t think it’s the same jersey. There is no evidence of restitching and the tags show more wear/coloring etc than the issued jersey you mentioned.

Thank you,

Mark


I'm sorry, but this is simply blatant disregard for the collectors, the hobby, and for abiding the laws of our land.

This is absolutely the same jersey. The signature could not be placed in the exact same location, with the exact same similarities (like the thickness of the pen on certain swoops and such.....and yes, Jeff, the "dot" too). What kind of a fool does this Mark take everyone for?

More importantly, what does this say about Vintage Auctions?

I already know what it says, and I proudly share the fact that I have never registered to bid on their auctions, and bever will. Why? Because I don't want to sift through the piles of garbage to maybe find a piece or two of authentic origin mixed in that I may want. I'll spend my time doing something more worthwhile.

Like cleaning my bird's cage......

[Birdbats]

Just checked on the Ozzie jersey and am happy to report that VA has done the right thing and pulled the lot.

[Robert Sanders]

Just checked on the Ozzie jersey and am happy to report that VA has done the right thing and pulled the lot.

Great news! Props to you Jeff for pursuing this so hard and cleaning up a tiny bit of dirt in this hobby.

[legaleagle92481]

good job jeff but looking at some of the lots i think va has alot more pulling to do.

[Schmoozer]

good job jeff but looking at some of the lots i think va has alot more pulling to do.

We're all ears.....list away.