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Rmmm912
07-16-2006, 07:08 AM
Wow....just reading through the posts and realizing there was quite a firestorm of debate over the $100 Yankees game used jerseys. I just want to clarify a few things from the "front lines" of this promotion:

1) The sale was purely an attempt to move some stagnant items, as we needed room in the cage for incoming Mets inventory; many people do not realize this, but the Yankees had given us over 30 years worth of game used jerseys they had in storage, and much has not even been made available to the public yet...this represented a very small portion of that. Anyone who complains that we overprice our items and THEN complains when they are priced at this rate will likely never be pleased...just my opinion.

2) Ideally, the jerseys would have been snapped up by collectors who would otherwise be unable to afford a real Yankees game used jersey, but naturally the secondary market resellers are a little quicker to act--especially at this price, as it creates easy profit. Nothing wrong with that, but to the private collectors who found "slim pickings" after just a few hours, that is the reason.

3) I am not the only sales rep at Steiner, but I am the only one who focuses 100% on game used collectibles (there seemed to be some confusion about that as well). Naturally, my clients will often benefit from this fact. I also post information on promotions on the "Game Used Blog" on the Steiner site; one of which is also running in the current Beckett Elite.

4) Regarding the Perez jersey, it was game used by Melido in 1995 and tagged in 1996 with Perez's name, not used by Melido in 1996, as he did not pitch that year. If anything, the LOA should read "Perez game used 1995 road jersey, tagged 1996); no way this should be sold as "game issued".

If anyone has any questions, feel free to contact me at any time, through phone or e-mail (bmalandro@steinersports.com, 914-307-1074), I am not on here frequently, so I may or may not see a reply to this post right away.

Bob Malandro
Yankees-Steiner Collectibles
Mets-Steiner Collectibles

allstarsplus
07-16-2006, 07:58 AM
Bob - Welcome to the site. Our sales Rep is Phil Reese who is great to deal with. Most of our purchases are game used items.

Not knowing all the internal procedures at Steiner, do all the Reps have the same access to the same game used items?

Thanks. Andrew
www.AllStarsPlus.com (http://www.AllStarsPlus.com)

psmachetti
07-16-2006, 08:25 AM
No complaints here! I think it was a great idea. I am one of those collectors Bob referred to who normally would be unable to afford a Yankee gamer. This was a great opportunity for me to score a Yankee pinstripe gamer. I found there was a pretty good selection of 2nd tier stars available. Kudos to Bob for making these available at an affordable price. Hope there's another coming in the future.
Paul

larry bourget
07-16-2006, 09:07 AM
There are also some great deals on Yankees gamers to be had on the Steiner Website Auctions, i have personally picked up my share for $50.,$80., & $100.

Larry

trsent
07-16-2006, 12:07 PM
4) Regarding the Perez jersey, it was game used by Melido in 1995 and tagged in 1996 with Perez's name, not used by Melido in 1996, as he did not pitch that year. If anything, the LOA should read "Perez game used 1995 road jersey, tagged 1996); no way this should be sold as "game issued".

Bob,

Welcome to the site. I just want to clarify something for you. A jersey tagged for 1996 could never have been worn in 1995. Teams and manufacturers, do not re-tag jerseys a year after they were worn. This is the more likely scenario, Perez was suppose to be on the Yankees 1996 roster, so when the team ordered jerseys in the winter or spring 1996 a jersey was made for him, but when he was not on the team, another player or even a coach could have used the jersey. Let me restate so that this point is clear: A jersey tagged for the 1996 season, would never have been re-tagged from the 1995 season. It would never have been worn a year earlier.

It just took me five minutes of research to find that Charlie Hayes wore #33 in the 1996 season.

I would say that Charlie Hayes wore the jersey in 1996, if the size matches up or was Melido Perez on the injured list in 1996? I couldn't find records of this in doing my homework. Could he have worn the jersey on the bench or was he cut in spring training or after spring training? Could he of worn it in spring training of 1996? Again, in doing my research I couldn't' find this information which maybe someone with some free time can find.

Now, my bold statement: This jersey was never worn by Melido Perez in 1995. That would have been impossible.

suave1477
07-16-2006, 01:47 PM
AS MUCH AS THIS IS KILLING ME, I DO AGREE WITH THE OTHER MEMBER!!!

Melido never wore the Jersey in 1995!!!

trsent
07-16-2006, 03:09 PM
AS MUCH AS THIS IS KILLING ME, I DO AGREE WITH THE OTHER MEMBER!!!

Melido never wore the Jersey in 1995!!!

You love me.
You hate me.
:rolleyes:

Rmmm912
07-16-2006, 03:44 PM
All I will say is be extremely careful with "always" and "impossible" statements. Unless you have seen this particular jersey or communicated directly with the New York Yankees, that is a bold statement indeed. Obviously nothing is impossible, and there were an enormous number of recycled jerseys (by the Yankees) up to and including 1997.

There is no apparent reason to debate this any further, as your "impossible" statement tells me your mind is made up, but I admire your enthusiasm for the subject.

psmachetti
07-16-2006, 04:12 PM
I don't understand. Why is it impossible for a jersey to have been used in '95 and then used the next yr and tagged for 96? I thought teams used jerseys for more than 1 yr?
Paul

trsent
07-16-2006, 04:25 PM
All I will say is be extremely careful with "always" and "impossible" statements. Unless you have seen this particular jersey or communicated directly with the New York Yankees, that is a bold statement indeed. Obviously nothing is impossible, and there were an enormous number of recycled jerseys (by the Yankees) up to and including 1997.

There is no apparent reason to debate this any further, as your "impossible" statement tells me your mind is made up, but I admire your enthusiasm for the subject.

From dealing in game used jersey for about twenty years now, and with close contacts who have dealt with these Yankees jerseys first hand, I can tell you that a jersey is never re-tagged for a later year after being worn in a previous season.

It would be possible that a jersey was tagged in 1995 and worn in 1996, but they have never showed a history of removing a year tag and wearing that jersey the next season with a new year tag.

It is known that The Yankees never kept a log of the jerseys that Steiner is selling, they were just put into boxes or whatever and stored and pulled for sale at this time. Never was a jersey such as the one being sold tagged by the Yankees "Worn in 1995, tagged for 1996". It has always been Steiner guessing such information. This is fine, because there are no names on many of the jerseys (on back) so often it has to be determined who wore which jersey.

Now, the jersey being question was also told to us by the current owner that the jersey does not show any signs of having the year tag removed and replaced.

This is a cheap jersey, but I think the forum would be proud if Steiner made a statement and admitted that it appears an error may have been made and reclassify the jersey as either team issued from 1996 as it will set a precedent that is needed in this industry because we all make errors and this appears to be one.

It is not a big deal, and never did I use the word "impossible" in my previous post. Anything is possible, but there is no evidence to support the claim that this jersey was used in 1995 and tagged for 1996 that makes any sense. What possible evidence is there?

trsent
07-16-2006, 04:26 PM
I don't understand. Why is it impossible for a jersey to have been used in '95 and then used the next yr and tagged for 96? I thought teams used jerseys for more than 1 yr?
Paul

Paul, there is no history of a team re-tagging a jersey for the next year. They may reuse it and it still is tagged for the previous year, but the year tag has never been replaced in such a situation.

Yankwood
07-16-2006, 05:56 PM
I have to agree with TRSENT on this one. What possible reason would they have for retagging a jersey to correspond with that year. Players could care less and probably don't even notice what year is on the jersey. So, who would go thru the trouble of updating a year tag?

Rmmm912
07-17-2006, 04:10 AM
Joel, you did in fact use the word "impossible", otherwise, I probably would not even addressed it, but that is not the point. You base your theory on the fact that "it is well known that the Yankees never kept a log....the jerseys were just put into boxes"...but in fact there is a log that the Yankees kept, and I look at it almost daily for information and clarification. Your sources did not give you accurate information this time around.

That being said, of course mistakes get made (by everyone), but in this particular case, we will have to agree to disagree, "cheap" jersey notwithstanding.

Keep up the good work, I never take offense to legitimate questions being raised.

Bob

Rmmm912
07-17-2006, 04:20 AM
sorry....one final clarification and then we should probably move on from this....while the Yankees did provide a jersey/pants/bats log that is actively used, there certainly can be mistakes made there from time to time, as we are dealing with literally thousands of individual items--and human beings on both sides.

trsent
07-17-2006, 08:35 AM
Bob, you are right and I am wrong...I did use the term "impossible" in my previous post. When I searched for the word in the text it didn't come up, but I did use it.

I will now retract that word. It was possible that the jersey was worn in 1995 and then actually for the first time in history of known jersey tagging, which is completely uncharacteristic of Yankees tagging, re-tagged the next season. In all my years in this industry there has never been a previous example of this practice that I have seen, but it is possible.

Bob, from what I have been told, you are a great salesman, but I don't know what your experience is with game used jerseys but it appears you may be new to the industry and you should keep an open mind because the members of this forum are generally very knowledgeable and their views on issues such as this one ($100 jersey or $5000 jersey) should be viewed genuinely because in the end we do care about this industry and integrity.

Swoboda4
07-17-2006, 08:49 AM
Show the jersey in question already. Let's see the tag-what's the big deal? Also, have you see Steiner's wherehouse on the YES network? It's huge. They HAVE to make room?

suave1477
07-17-2006, 09:36 AM
Swoboda I have been there many times to there warehouse/cage it is pretty full.

My question to Bob is this.

I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY OUT OF ALL THESE POSTS THE REAL QUESTION HAS NOT BEEN ANSWERED AND CONFIRMED.

Bob are you saying in your records, that this Jersey was tagged for 1995 and Melido Perez wore it and then the tag was taken off and a 1996 tag was put in its place?

Swoboda4
07-17-2006, 10:36 AM
suave1477- Right question to ask. This means there's a guy at Yankee Stadium(equipment manager?)who,on jerseys with no names on them,felt the need to take a tag off(Who over there cares?)for re-issuing? If there's such a guy-I would assume Steiner would know about it,or would want to know about it. Who is the "RE-TAGGER" I say! And who the hell at Yankee Stadium cares other than the size fits another player.

Rmmm912
07-17-2006, 03:51 PM
As much as I enjoyed spending time with you all over the past few days, I am making my final post and moving on for the time being. Conspiracy theories aside, we go by the information provided by the New York Yankees; in some instances, we may question certain items (as will clients), and may or may not make a change, depending on the information available, and its reliability. Since it has been pointed out how experienced and well connected many of you are, it would stand to reason that you can simply contact the Yankees on your own and get the best possible clarifications on these individual items; if so, more power to you.

Anyone on this forum (or elsewhere) who has purchased a game used item from me knows without question, that I will discuss all possibilities with them, at any time, any length, and with respect for their opinion--there are many times in which common sense has prevailed and changes have been made at the client's request--to insinuate otherwise is ludicrous.

It's been fun...I'm sure we will cross paths over time.

Bob

hblakewolf
07-17-2006, 03:56 PM
The folks at American Memorabila also said the same, however, later returned with Col. James Rask as their mouthpiece.

Bob, come on........we appreciate the insight. What's it going to take to keep you as an active reader? What if every reader agrees to buy at least one game used Yankees batting helmet at $12,000 or a pair of pants at $500.? Deal?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

trsent
07-17-2006, 04:12 PM
As much as I enjoyed spending time with you all over the past few days, I am making my final post and moving on for the time being. Conspiracy theories aside, we go by the information provided by the New York Yankees; in some instances, we may question certain items (as will clients), and may or may not make a change, depending on the information available, and its reliability. Since it has been pointed out how experienced and well connected many of you are, it would stand to reason that you can simply contact the Yankees on your own and get the best possible clarifications on these individual items; if so, more power to you.

Anyone on this forum (or elsewhere) who has purchased a game used item from me knows without question, that I will discuss all possibilities with them, at any time, any length, and with respect for their opinion--there are many times in which common sense has prevailed and changes have been made at the client's request--to insinuate otherwise is ludicrous.

It's been fun...I'm sure we will cross paths over time.

Bob

So, Bob, do you think the members of this forum are claiming that Steiner is intentionally selling a 1995 - 1996 Melido Perez jersey as game used when we feel the jersey is not game used?

You can opt our of the conversation, but the truth is the jersey has no evidence of being used in 1995, as there is no history of any team re-tagging a year tag when a jersey is carried over from one year to the next.

I could care less about this jersey, but the principle of how it was tagged and sold as such has me confused and your avoiding the input of people who have much more experience in the game used memorabilia industry than you do is a tad bit insulting to me personally.

We were trying to work with Steiner so that errors such as this Melido Perez jersey are corrected and not thrown in our face for the future of the hobby, this industry and your company's solid reputation. I have no problem with Steiner Sports or you personally, it is just that there is an issue that you are claiming is right and experts in this industry such as myself are claiming do not make sense with the history of such items and Steiner should reconsider the classifications on this one item for the future of all letters of authenticity.

trsent
07-17-2006, 04:25 PM
I forgot to mention, I do not believe Steiner is trying to defraud anyone, I believe this to be an honest error. I have no issues with Steiner Sports.

YanksSteiner
07-17-2006, 04:39 PM
I will add one more possibility to what this jersey in fact could be. I understand the confusion, I really do, and I can see where and why you guys have questions. The other POSSIBILITY with the Perez Jersey is it was NOT used by Perez, but by Charlie Hayes in 1996. As you have all pointed out, there was no evidence of re-tagging jerseys, so this is the most likely alternative possiblity. It could have been tagged for Perez, he did not return, and the Jersey was given to Charlie Hayes. Remember, Derek Jeter's FIRST EVER Yankee jersey was a renumbered Bernie Williams 1995 Jersey( It had williams 95 on the tag i believe). If Charlie Hayes was a lte edition to the team, its possible they just gave him the jersey already tagged for Perez. The question of whether its game used or game issued is the wrong focus, in more of a focus as to which player wore the jersey Hayes or Perez. This is the last time I'm chiming into this topic as well, as I have given all my possible insights into this. The fact remains is its a still a Yankees gamer from 1996, and a STEAL at $100.

trsent
07-17-2006, 04:44 PM
I will add one more possibility to what this jersey in fact could be. I understand the confusion, I really do, and I can see where and why you guys have questions. The other POSSIBILITY with the Perez Jersey is it was NOT used by Perez, but by Charlie Hayes in 1996. As you have all pointed out, there was no evidence of re-tagging jerseys, so this is the most likely alternative possiblity. It could have been tagged for Perez, he did not return, and the Jersey was given to Charlie Hayes. Remember, Derek Jeter's FIRST EVER Yankee jersey was a renumbered Bernie Williams 1995 Jersey( It had williams 95 on the tag i believe). If Charlie Hayes was a lte edition to the team, its possible they just gave him the jersey already tagged for Perez. The question of whether its game used or game issued is the wrong focus, in more of a focus as to which player wore the jersey Hayes or Perez. This is the last time I'm chiming into this topic as well, as I have given all my possible insights into this. The fact remains is its a still a Yankees gamer from 1996, and a STEAL at $100.

Yes, a reasonable price at $100.00 either way and truth is the jersey could have been worn by Charlie Hays - I have a hunch we will never know.

If the owner of this jersey emails me, if the jersey has not sold maybe I'll buy it for fun.

Rmmm912
07-17-2006, 05:11 PM
Joel,

C'mon...insulted personally???? I have done anything but avoided your input; I have engaged in what I thought was a healthy dialogue.

As I mentioned, I primarily go by what information I am given by the Yankees—you can disagree based on what you feel to be the case, and that is ok and I can respect that. If it was you buying the jersey and you did not agree with our assessment, you have every right to pass on the purchase, and I would understand completely, because some items have ambiguous origins and always will.

If the person who bought the Perez jersey (who I have dealt with before) comes to me and asks for additional clarification, I will do everything in my power to either find evidence to support an answer that they are comfortable with—or it is possible that I will request or authorize a change, or they can return the item for a full refund. This goes for any jersey purchased by anyone.

The particular jersey that has been called into question is game used—this is indisputable based on the wear and condition of the tags; someone with your experience should (and would) recognize this immediately. Is it possible that someone other than Perez wore it? Of course….we have jerseys tagged as “B Williams” that were worn by Jeter, and a hundred other examples; but again, on the list provided buy the Yankees (yes, it exists), the jersey is listed as game used, Melido Perez.

trsent
07-17-2006, 05:32 PM
...and as you have seen, I now wish to buy the jersey if the owner is still trying to sell it he has my email address!

Swoboda4
07-17-2006, 07:23 PM
Ah,the high road by Bob ..and goodbye. Sorry you feel that way. Were in a hobby/market that collectors have to talk the way we do and be a little suspicious some times. It helps to be civil and we try. But some very good dealers have occasionally let us down and ordinary ones always bear watching. As an excellent seller you can aford not to worry as we would have to. But if someone from the Yankees said something like come by Monday and pick up 30 years worth of items I know that not all were game used. It also interesting that many high profile people in this Forum benefited from this $100 sale. Interesting. They kept it quiet didn't share any info untill a problem arose when Shafrancollectibles.com started selling the jerseys and Suave1477 noticed a problem. Anyway,It good to know the shelves at Steiner are chock full of unwanted Yankee jerseys(And...they're being moved,as Bob said,to make room for the Met Items.How the Worm has turned.)

allstarsplus
07-21-2006, 05:51 AM
I am up in Boston now, but have to say I made a great side trip on my drive. I had stopped in New Rochelle NY which of course is home to Steiner Sports and the Yankees-Steiner warehouse===also known as the Yankees cage.

My sales rep Phil was nice enough to show me around and yes, I met the infamous Bob M.

The cage was extremely organized and shelving floor to ceiling with amazing items.

There is now a smaller section of Mets items. For anyone interested, they just got a Pedro Martinez 2006 Set 2 with the mesh under the arms and +2" body.

I talked to Sean M. who is the man in charge of Yankees-Steiner. New holograms are on the way!

I went thru the game used bat section where they just got in 650 Yankee bats which they just inventoried. There were several Damon and Jeter bats as well as a great 2-tone cracked Hideki Matsui!!!!

OK, I was like a kid in the candy store so I did buy a great Yankees bat of Alfonso Soriano!

Thanks again to Phil and the guys at Steiner.