PDA

View Full Version : Retail Jersey History?



Eric
07-17-2006, 11:45 AM
Hey everyone-

I was wondering if anyone out there in knew the history of retail football jerseys. I was thinking about how Sand Knit used to make fan jerseys in the 70s and thought someone might know how far back fans could buy jerseys of their favorite players.

Also, does anyone know if back in the day you had to buy the numbers that were available (of the stars) or if you could pick any number?

Any info would be appreciated.
Eric

suave1477
07-17-2006, 12:36 PM
Eric just in case you don't know the Mitchell and Ness story you might be interested in this as well other collectors to further update what you might have in your collection ESPECIALLY PHIL. EAGLES collectors.


About Mitchell & Ness


http://www.mitchellandness.com/images/site/MnN-Tennis-Raquet-Label.jpg In 1904 Frank Mitchell, a tennis enthusiast, and Charles Ness, an avid golfer from Scotland, came together to establish Mitchell & Ness Sporting Goods. They originally specialized in stringing tennis rackets and producing custom-made golf clubs, but eventually started manufacturing uniforms for local baseball and football teams in the Philadelphia area. In 1917, Mitchell and Ness hired a young Italian native named Sisto (Jimmy) Capolino, who started out sweeping floors. 18 years later, Jimmy Capolino became the store manager.

Entering the Majors

http://www.mitchellandness.com/images/site/bball_circle.jpg Mitchell & Ness began producing uniforms for professional teams in 1933 when the Philadelphia Eagles entered the National Football League. They would go on to supply the Eagles with uniforms and equipment for the next thirty years. In 1938 they entered into baseball, producing uniforms for the Philadelphia Athletics, and later added the Phillies to their roster. By 1950 the Mitchell & Ness label could be found on uniforms for every level of play from high school to professional. http://www.mitchellandness.com/images/site/p_capolino.jpg In 1952, Jimmy Capolino purchased the store and brought his son Peter in to help out. 26 years later, Jimmy passed away and Peter took over the company. In the meantime, the focus had shifted from manufacturing to retail, with a concentration on field hockey and ski equipment.
An Idea is Born

With the store struggling to stay afloat from large-scale competition, Peter received a request that would forever change the company's direction. In 1985 a gentleman inquired about making repairs to his 1960 Pirates game-worn vest and 1949 St. Louis Browns game-worn shirt. This request sparked the idea to bring these vintage styles to the contemporary market. After much research and a lucky find of unused wool flannel, the first batch of baseball jerseys was produced and sold out overnight.
Mitchell & Ness Today

http://www.mitchellandness.com/images/site/color_logo.jpg By 1991 Mitchell & Ness was manufacturing jerseys for fans and players alike with their Philadelphia Phillies Turn Back the Clock game gear. The Hardwood Classics basketball collection was introduced in 1999, followed closely with the Throwback Collection of NFL jerseys, and a collection of NHL-sanctioned vintage hockey sweaters. Today Mitchell & Ness offers professional league collections featuring over 1600 players, authentic-inspired and branded collections, and is the on-field outfitter of the Philadelphia Soul Arena Football Team. The company is known world-wide as the leader in authentic vintage sportswear.

hblakewolf
07-17-2006, 01:11 PM
Forum readers-
referencing the M & N info, I'm a bit confused.

There is a line about them "...adding the Phillies to their roster". I have an extensive collection of Phillies game worn flannels, and none were made by Mitchell and Ness. My collection dates back to 1949, and all have Wilson manufacturing tags sewn in. Did Wilson contract this piece of business to M & N?

Likewise, the company info also states that they were manufacturing the 1991 Phillies Turn Back the Clock uniforms. Again, I have Wally Backman's 1991 Phillies TBTC jersey and pants, both having red Rawlings tags, not M & N.

Can someone please add some insight.

Just curious........

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net


About Mitchell & Ness


http://www.mitchellandness.com/images/site/MnN-Tennis-Raquet-Label.jpg
Entering the Majors

http://www.mitchellandness.com/images/site/bball_circle.jpg Mitchell & Ness began producing uniforms for professional teams in 1933 when the Philadelphia Eagles entered the National Football League. They would go on to supply the Eagles with uniforms and equipment for the next thirty years. In 1938 they entered into baseball, producing uniforms for the Philadelphia Athletics, and later added the Phillies to their roster. By 1950 the Mitchell & Ness label could be found on uniforms for every level of play from high school to professional. http://www.mitchellandness.com/images/site/p_capolino.jpg In 1952, Jimmy Capolino purchased the store and brought his son Peter in to help out. 26 years later, Jimmy passed away and Peter took over the company. In the meantime, the focus had shifted from manufacturing to retail, with a concentration on field hockey and ski equipment.
An Idea is Born

With the store struggling to stay afloat from large-scale competition, Peter received a request that would forever change the company's direction. In 1985 a gentleman inquired about making repairs to his 1960 Pirates game-worn vest and 1949 St. Louis Browns game-worn shirt. This request sparked the idea to bring these vintage styles to the contemporary market. After much research and a lucky find of unused wool flannel, the first batch of baseball jerseys was produced and sold out overnight.
Mitchell & Ness Today

http://www.mitchellandness.com/images/site/color_logo.jpg By 1991 Mitchell & Ness was manufacturing jerseys for fans and players alike with their Philadelphia Phillies Turn Back the Clock game gear. The Hardwood Classics basketball collection was introduced in 1999, followed closely with the Throwback Collection of NFL jerseys, and a collection of NHL-sanctioned vintage hockey sweaters. Today Mitchell & Ness offers professional league collections featuring over 1600 players, authentic-inspired and branded collections, and is the on-field outfitter of the Philadelphia Soul Arena Football Team. The company is known world-wide as the leader in authentic vintage sportswear.

suave1477
07-17-2006, 01:19 PM
Howard I can add some light to one of your questions about the Throwback part.

Mitchell and Ness is the most popular retailer of Throwback Jerseys. They make the old past stars and Vintage Jerseys to the exact specifications that the original was made. These were a huge hit in urban culture within the past 5 years. You will see many kids on the street and in videos wearing them. By the way they are expensive!!!

As far as them being used in MLB, they are contracted for some teams / games to be made for MLB. Also other companies have been contracted to make Throwback jerseys for games such as yours Rawlings and others

hblakewolf
07-17-2006, 01:34 PM
Suave-
Thanks for the refresher, however, I'm specifically seeking info on the 2 questions:

1. They claim to have made Phillies jerseys. My jerseys, as should be the case, are made by Wilson.

2. They claim to have made the Phillies 1991 TBTC. My 1991 TBTC was made by Rawlings and obtained directly from Wally Backman.

Any insight to these specific claims?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net


Howard I can add some light to one of your questions about the Throwback part.

Mitchell and Ness is the most popular retailer of Throwback Jerseys. They make the old past stars and Vintage Jerseys to the exact specifications that the original was made. These were a huge hit in urban culture within the past 5 years. You will see many kids on the street and in videos wearing them. By the way they are expensive!!!

As far as them being used in MLB, they are contracted for some teams / games to be made for MLB. Also other companies have been contracted to make Throwback jerseys for games such as yours Rawlings and others

suave1477
07-17-2006, 01:46 PM
Howard I do not know the reason for the Eagles wilson jersey as I do not collect those.

A fars them saying they made the Jersey for the phillies in 1991, actually they don't say that. If you read carefully what they are saying, which is by 1991 they were manufacturing Jerseys for there fans and players with philedelphia philles turn back the clock game gear. They are just stating that is when things took off for there business and that was a big seller for them on the RETAIL SIDE.
They never mentioned anything about making Jerseys for the Philles Turn back the clock games.





http://www.mitchellandness.com/images/site/color_logo.jpg By 1991 Mitchell & Ness was manufacturing jerseys for fans and players alike with their Philadelphia Phillies Turn Back the Clock game gear. as the leader in

trsent
07-17-2006, 01:54 PM
There are some examples of Phillies and Eagles Mitchell & Ness jerseys currently on eBay:

MITCHELL & NESS STEVE VAN BUREN EAGLES THROWBACK JERSEY (http://cgi.ebay.com/MITCHELL-NESS-STEVE-VAN-BUREN-EAGLES-THROWBACK-JERSEY_W0QQitemZ110008803903QQihZ001QQcategoryZ249 69QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Randall Cunningham Mitchell & Ness '92 Eagles Throwback (http://cgi.ebay.com/Randall-Cunningham-Mitchell-Ness-92-Eagles-Throwback_W0QQitemZ180007795733QQihZ008QQcategoryZ 137007QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Eagles Mitchell and Ness Team Jacket - Rare (http://cgi.ebay.com/Eagles-Mitchell-and-Ness-Team-Jacket-Rare_W0QQitemZ280008333060QQihZ018QQcategoryZ24848 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

1950-64 Phillies home jersey by Mitchell and Ness (http://cgi.ebay.com/1950-64-Phillies-home-jersey-by-Mitchell-and-Ness_W0QQitemZ110009608842QQihZ001QQcategoryZ24906 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Phila PHILLIES Schmidt Mitchell & Ness Auth. Jersey 4XL (http://cgi.ebay.com/Phila-PHILLIES-Schmidt-Mitchell-Ness-Auth-Jersey-4XL_W0QQitemZ160006876379QQihZ006QQcategoryZ24906Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

MITCHELL & NESS MLB PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES HAT 8 1/4 (http://cgi.ebay.com/MITCHELL-NESS-MLB-PHILADELPHIA-PHILLIES-HAT-8-1-4_W0QQitemZ160006873248QQihZ006QQcategoryZ24664QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I hope this helps.

hblakewolf
07-17-2006, 02:00 PM
Suave-
After rereading, I understand what they are saying. What about the other statement, "In 1938 they entered into baseball, producing uniforms for the Philadelphia Athletics, and later added the Phillies to their roster. ":confused:

What's the deeper meaning on this?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net





Howard I do not know the reason for the Eagles wilson jersey as I do not collect those.

A fars them saying they made the Jersey for the phillies in 1991, actually they don't say that. If you read carefully what they are saying, which is by 1991 they were manufacturing Jerseys for there fans and players with philedelphia philles turn back the clock game gear. They are just stating that is when things took off for there business and that was a big seller for them on the RETAIL SIDE.
They never mentioned anything about making Jerseys for the Philles Turn back the clock games.

suave1477
07-17-2006, 02:03 PM
Howard as I said that part I do not know, but you can call them they are very customer friendly on the phone.

hblakewolf
07-17-2006, 02:07 PM
Suave-
Not a big deal, just more of a curiosity thing..........:rolleyes:

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net


Howard as I said that part I do not know, but you can call them they are very customer friendly on the phone.

both-teams-played-hard
07-17-2006, 03:04 PM
Mitchell and Ness distributed many jerseys of Philly sports teams from the 30s to the 70s. They did not make the jerseys. They applied letters, numbers and crests to the jerseys. They added their M&N tag in most cases. I have seen a M&N adjacent tag on jerseys made by Spanjian, MacGregor, Spalding and others. However, I have never seen a Wilson jersey with an adjacent Mitchell and Ness Tag. Not to say they never worked with Wilson.
Ironically, the "throwbacks" are not made by Mitchell and Ness. They are made by Powers Mfg of Waterloo, Iowa. They cut the textiles, weave the wool, sew the thread...Mitchell&Ness is STILL just a distributor.
In my opinion, Powers Mfg. is the most overlooked sports manufacturing company in history....

I think the original question was about the history of the "fan" jersey. Medalist Sand Knit made NFL replica jerseys (without NOBs) from the mid 70s to the 80s. It seems only superstar uniform numbers were available. These jerseys are very different from gamers (no extra length, single-ply shoulders). Medalist Sand Knit did make the gamers of many NFL teams during this time. When Sand Knit became MacGregor Sand Knit in 1985, the replicas became much better quality, but were still distinguishable from gamers (no NOB, etc.) I have only seen Macgregor Sand Knit NFL replicas with superstar numbers. The most popular would be the LA Raiders "#34".

hblakewolf
07-17-2006, 03:09 PM
BTPH-
As we are all aware, Philadelphia 76'ers jerseys were manufactured by Wilson with the Pearson Sporting Goods tag next to it, however, I agree with you......I'm not aware of a Phillies Wilson manufactured jersey with ANY other tag next to it.

Has anyone else seen such Phillies tagging?

I once had a 1987 road blue Phillies jersey with a Cosby tag sewn in the tail-how odd is this?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net



Mitchell and Ness distributed many jerseys of Philly sports teams from the 30s to the 70s. They did not make the jerseys. They applied letters, numbers and crests to the jerseys. They added their M&N tag in most cases. I have seen a M&N adjacent tag on jerseys made by Spanjian, MacGregor, Spalding and others. However, I have never seen a Wilson jersey with an adjacent Mitchell and Ness Tag. Not to say they never worked with Wilson.
Ironically, the "throwbacks" are not made by Mitchell and Ness. They are made by Powers Mfg of Waterloo, Iowa. They cut the textiles, weave the wool, sew the thread...Mitchell&Ness is STILL just a distributor.
In my opinion, Powers Mfg. is the most overlooked sports manufacturing company in history....

I think the original question was about the history of the "fan" jersey. Medalist Sand Knit made NFL replica jerseys (without NOBs) from the mid 70s to the 80s. It seems only superstar uniform numbers were available. These jerseys are very different from gamers (no extra length, single-ply shoulders). Medalist Sand Knit did make the gamers of many NFL teams during this time. When Sand Knit became MacGregor Sand Knit in 1985, the replicas became much better quality, but were still distinguishable from gamers (no NOB, etc.) I have only seen Macgregor Sand Knit NFL replicas with superstar numbers. The most popular would be the LA Raiders "#34".

flaco1801
07-17-2006, 04:39 PM
howard, i think they made a mistake. i can almost remember peter telling me they made for the Philadelphia Athletics.

MooseDog
07-25-2006, 10:43 AM
I was thinking about how Sand Knit used to make fan jerseys in the 70s and thought someone might know how far back fans could buy jerseys of their favorite players.

Also, does anyone know if back in the day you had to buy the numbers that were available (of the stars) or if you could pick any number?
Eric

Eric - I was an avid GU trader in the 1970s, though not much in football. I do remember pretty clearly though that the Sand Knit football jerseys were pre-made. Most of the stars of the day were available. However the retail SN jerseys did not have the "Made Exclusive" tag that the real team jerseys had. That didn't stop enterprising sorts to manufacture their own tags or pull tags off common players. This pretty much made me stop collecting football GU jerseys completely.

G1X
07-26-2006, 01:18 PM
To clarify BTPH's post that mentioned the single-ply shoulders on the replica Sand Knit jerseys, the Sand Knit game jerseys of that era also had single-ply mesh shoulders. This can be observed when looking closely at many photos, football cards, etc. Single-ply mesh shoulders can also be found on Russell game jerseys from the 1990s (I have a few Atlanta Falcons linemen in this style). Wanted to point this out so that no one would think that a 1970s Sand-Knit with single-ply shoulders is automatically a replica.

Back to Eric's question - there was an ad that used to run in the back of Street & Smith's Pro Football Annual in the early 1970s where you could order a catalogue for NFL replica jerseys. The catalogue did not identify any team nor did it contain photos. Instead, it meticulously described the jersey style and you had to pretty much figure out the team by the description. It got tricky on teams with similar styles such as the Rams and Cowboys blue jerseys of the very early 1970s.

You could order any name and number. I placed an order for a #88 blue Dallas Cowboys without a name. It was a decent replica and even had the appropriate spacing on the back for placing a nameplate. However, the numbers were on the shoulders instead of the sleeves, and it was fairly easy to discern that it differed from a real game jersey as outlined by BTPH in his post. My jersey contained Sand Knit tagging, but unlike the super star replicas (mentioned in previous posts) that were available at that time with the "exclusive" tagging, mine did not contain the "exclusive" tagging identifying the team.

Hope this information is helpful. Feel free to contact me at neet@erols.com if you need further information.

Mark Hayne

transam85tpi
12-02-2006, 01:27 PM
I started going in to M&N back in 1986 when I was stationed up in Philadelphia... I got to know Peter, Joanne, Ray, and Al quite well as I was in there quite often. Al didn't work there, but he knew A LOT about baseball jerseys. When M&N started with the baseball throwbacks back then, I remember that they had found a load of old wool fabric in one of the wherehouses on the waterfront and Peter bought all of it with the idea of remaking a few of the older jerseys, (Aaron, etc.) By 1987 I remember people coming into the store from up & down the east coast to buy these jerseys...

Just think, I just went in there to see if they had a Herschel Walker jersey, not knowing that they sold the actual Russell jerseys. I was happy because I never did like the SandKnit ones, I bought many Cowboys jerseys from them over the years. I'll have to get up with Peter sometime soon... I haven't seen or talked to him in over a decade.

beantown
12-02-2006, 04:51 PM
Hey everyone-

I was wondering if anyone out there in knew the history of retail football jerseys. I was thinking about how Sand Knit used to make fan jerseys in the 70s and thought someone might know how far back fans could buy jerseys of their favorite players.

Also, does anyone know if back in the day you had to buy the numbers that were available (of the stars) or if you could pick any number?

Any info would be appreciated.
Eric

I rememeber getting a Lynn Swann jersey back in the early 80's which was ordered through an ad in the Football Digest. It was nothing like a Steelers game jersey from that era. It had heat pressed #'s and name, and was not nylon durene. However, it is my understanding that nylon durene jerseys were made as authentics from that era and I have had a few over the years in single and double ply shoulders, some also had the "Designed Exclusiveley for the Pittsburgh Steelers Tag". When I look at game used jerseys from the 70's or ealry 80's of the Steelers, I always look at the length. The Pro Football Hall of Fame and the Heinz Field Hall of Fame both have Steelers jersey displayed and I have never seen one originally manufactured with one length and extra material added on. Have you seen how many auction houses have 70's and 80's Steelers jersey with the so called "extra length" added??? It has been quite a few recently....where were all these in years past? Moreover, there always the home jersey...no road white jerseys??? My conclusion it that these are authentic jerseys where someone has added extra durene material, exclusive/size tags and a year tag...more often than not, you don't find the exclusive tag, because it never existed on the jersey! Your trying to tell me that the Steelers of the 70', who were larger than life, couldn't get jerseys originally manufactured the right way for each player and the Steelers equipment manager had to add extra material??? Yeah, right!!! It's a shame that people are spending so much money on jerseys that are down right bogus....:mad: