Why is LeBron getting so much hate?

[gingi79]

I am asking for constructive responses and serious feedback rather than just anger. If you are a Cavs fan and feel spurned that's a valid and understandable response. Just saying "It's not his team" is juvenile.

Here is my viewpoint. Call it the case FOR James joining the Heat.

We, as fans scream and rant and rave that athletes only care about the money. We get mad when players phone in their effort and hold out for more cash rather than showing some soul and honoring their contracts.

Lebron honored his 7 year contact. He put forth a ton of effort and brought a team, by himself, to the Finals. He made a franchise relevant for the first time in decades. He didn't talk about 2010 and Free Agency for the last 5 years even when New York would demand for him to talk about nothing else. He never turned on the Cavs, spoke ill of them or demanded a trade.

He left for a really valid reason. In 7 years, what did management do to get him help? Where was his Scottie Pippen, his Steve Nash, his Tony Parker? How could they not sign ONE SINGLE All Star supporting player in 7 seasons?

So essentially, the guy honored his contract and left because he and DWADE and Bosh together are a formitable team and Cleveland has done nothing to help James for almost a decade. Just hype him to god like status and expect him to do it all himself. Well, that has NEVER worked. Michael needed Scottie, Kobe needed Shaq and then a hell of a support staff. Wade needed Shaq and Jason Williams. The big 3 in Boston. Magic had Worthy and Kareem, Bird had McHale, Parrish, etc. So I have to go on?

Miami isn't even doing something unique. Boston did the same thing, right? Took Paul Pierce (Wade) added Ray Allen (Bosh) and then got Garnett (LeBron) They won a title.

Wade and Bosh and Lebron took LESS money to get together and WIN. That tells me they care about one thing, not ego or garbage "my team starts and ends with ME."

Charles Barkley is an idiot who never won anything. So when he says "He isn't Michael. It's not HIS team. He can win championships but it's not with his own team, it's Wade's team." Right, Barkley, lets ask the Sixers if your opinion on this matter isn't Horse$hit, especially while you were playing with the Suns. Michael only ever played with the Bulls, right? Oh wait! He left and played with the Wizards FOR THE MONEY AND HIS EGO. That's much better! Continue playing well past your prime and your 6 championships on a loser team with no chance in the playoffs because the hundreds of millions of dollars weren't enough. That's much less selfish and self serving.

Michael Jordan has the biggest ego ever and cares about nothing but himself. I lost all respect for him after his HOF "I am Jesus" speech. He demanded players come to Chicago and the team to sign them. He would have left if no one wanted to come play there (like in Cleveland) NO ONE WOULD BLAME HIM. So why is Lebron wrong?

That is the point of the game, to win Championships. So why are people mad at him? He owes Cleveland nothing, they gave him no support and he just wanted to win. How is that wrong?

Anyway, I'm sure I'm missing something and his whole "Decision" thing was obnoxious and self serving but no one is mad about that. So explain it to me, why is LeBron getting so much hate?

[jetersbatboy]

We, as fans scream and rant and rave that athletes only care about the money. We get mad when players phone in their effort and hold out for more cash rather than showing some soul and honoring their contracts.

Wade and Bosh and Lebron took LESS money to get together and WIN. That tells me they care about one thing, not ego or garbage "my team starts and ends with ME."



If I am not mistaken, it was reported Lebron and Bosh are actually making more without the state income. The only one that gave anything up was Wade.

[otismalibu]

When all 3 guys (in their prime) plan this out, it just seems like the guys at the YMCA who try to stack their noon ball squad. Bush.

This isn't the standard aging NBA star w/o a ring who feels he's owed one, so he looks to piggy-back with a contender (Barkley, Payton, Mailman).

It's not like the Cavs were that far away. It just looks like a puss move. Like it would have been too hard or taken too long.

[Fnazxc0114]

I am primarily a baseball fan, so i live with the fact that the majority of the players on my team will play for someone else at some point in their career. It sux seeing all these great name go to the yankees, mets, red sox, but its a fact of life in the MLB. I have no hate for lebron, hes a grown man, and if he wanted to play somewhere else thats is load to bare. If i were a cleveland fan it would sting a litlle knowing he went to the heat for less money than he would have gotten at home, but money in a players pocket dont buy championship rings.

[legaleagle92481]

Jealousy. People hate people who are excessively gifted at something to the point that they can be considered the best there is at it and who as a result get tons of riches and fame. It is the same way with Peyton Manning and Arod in their sports nothing they do will ever be good enough. In hockey they used to treat Jagr that way.

[both-teams-played-hard]

When all 3 guys (in their prime) plan this out, it just seems like the guys at the YMCA who try to stack their noon ball squad. Bush.

This isn't the standard aging NBA star w/o a ring who feels he's owed one, so he looks to piggy-back with a contender (Barkley, Payton, Mailman).

It's not like the Cavs were that far away. It just looks like a puss move. Like it would have been too hard or taken too long.

Totally agree. The YMCA analogy is perfect. I'm not playing right now, I'm waiting for my boys to show up. The stacked team with battery operated sneakers gets beat by 5 stoners wearing Vans. Meanwhile, the stacked team calls foul with every missed shot.
It will be fun to root against the Heat. Besides, I'm an Orlando fan.

[BergerKing22784]

Ive always said I wished players would put the money aside and just take acouple yrs and make a super team to get their rings and championships. Ive always wanted some players to say screw the yankees and make a superteam on their own to battle them and take the rings. I am not even a Twins fan but I feel like they always tend to have the best teams on lowest payroll so I wish a bunch of superstar studs would sign cheap 1 or 2 yr deals to go to them to get a championship or two.

My biggest issue with all of this is they are acting like they already won with parades and all this glamour and I feel like they are rubbing it in on the rest of the leagues face.

He wants to win though and that is fine by me. He is giving up the chance at the title of being called the best ever or one of the best ever by this move but winning as a TEAM is more important to him and I cant fault him for that.

[otismalibu]

Totally agree. The YMCA analogy is perfect. I'm not playing right now, I'm waiting for my boys to show up. The stacked team with battery operated sneakers gets beat by 5 stoners wearing Vans. Meanwhile, the stacked team calls foul with every missed shot. It will be fun to root against the Heat.

It's funny as hell when the stacked teams loses to the leftovers. In a short game, a hot hand and the dynasty falls and begins to woof at each other. But the YMCA ain't the NBA except that everyone now uses the bogus jump step and waves off picks. Shitty NBA officiating has let the overlooked violations trickle down to the playground.

The NBA is a clown league now. Jumped the shark. Daps for a miss.

Jealousy. Nah. I'm a Steelers fan, but actually like Peyton Manning. Now, if he would have left Indy to try and build a Super Team a few years back, different story.

James is in his mid 20s, one of the best players in the league on a top team and he tapped out.

Julius Erving lost in the 1977, 1980 & 1982 Finals before winning his only NBA belt in 1983. He should have gotten together with old ABA pals Iceman & A-Train and tried to build a powerhouse squad.

[legaleagle92481]

How is what Lebron did different than what Arod did? At 25 Arod chased money and went to Texas then decided three years later that money was not enough. He manuvered to get traded to the Yankees, baseball's most stacked team who had just come off a World Series loss and had the game's second best shortstop, after Arod and changed postions to play alongside him. Several years later Arod won a ring and his career was "complete". In the years between the trade and the ring the stacked team flopped in the postseason. Arod lead his team to a championship only after the team that had at the time of the trade, had likely future hofers in Mariano Riveria, Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada and added and subtracted other likely HOFers during that time period (Clemens, Randy Johnson, Sheffield and Ivan Rodriguez) acquired one of the top pitchers in the game in CC and one of the most productive middle of the order hitters in baseball in Tex.

[BostonSportsFan]

It really is all about the way LeBrick did it. He is free to do whatever he wants wherever he wants that is his choice. You cannot convince me though that he was not trying to stick it to the Cavs on the way out the door. The way he handled this process with Cleveland was like a disgruntled employee trying to stick it to the employer on the way out the door and drive the knife deep into them.

This entire circus was planned out by these guys possibly several years ago. It came down to Wade convincing Riley to get low enough under the cap to make this even possible. If Riley did not know beyond a shadow of a doubt that these guys were all coming down there assuming he could gut the team, there is no way you just gut the whole team. If he did that and did not land these guys Miami would have been stuck for years as a losing club.

LeBrick just handled this incredibly poorly. To not let your employer know until you are going on the air to announce on a nationally televised TV special that you are leaving is just bush league. He did not even have the decency apparently to make that call himself. Assuming that this entire thing was planned at least several months out, why the dog and pony show bringing in all these NBA teams when these guys knew all along what their plan was. It was a complete three ring circus and made everyone look like a bunch of fools.

LeBrick is 25, he is getting so desperate that he cannot wait to win and has to win NOW. Everyone keeps saying that Cleveland does nothing to help him. For god sake, they had the leagues best record the past two seasons. LeBrick's problem is, that nobody cares about the regular season, playoff basketball is totally different and his team and he cannot win when it really counts.

If LeBrick would have been patient and told management, gut the Cavs, get 30 mil under the cap, you don't think his buddy Chris Paul would have come there in two years if you wave enough money at him. How about other front line players. Yeah its Cleveland, but if you wave enough money, someone will take it, maybe not Bosh but someone will. He is just so desperate to win and win now that he will sell his soul to the devil and do whatever it takes to win. Jordan was 28 when he won his first title, LeBron just cannot understand that you don't just show up in the league and someone hands you titles, you have to bleed, sweat and eat, breath and sleep this stuff 7 days a week to be the man. I don't know if he has it in him to do that and nothing he has done recently shows me otherwise.

AGain, I have no problem if he wanted to leave, but how about a call two weeks out to the Cavs ownership saying, I have decided to leave, I would appreciate if you would keep that silent but do what you have to do, thank them for allowing you to play there and go on your merry way.

The whole thing was just handled really, really bad and LeBron came off looking like a complete fool. Please, a one hour special that should have taken 5 minutes what a joke.

[Dewey2007]

I agree it's not so much what Lebron did by going to Miami it's how he went about it. He could have told Cavs management his decision well in advance and went about his business. He would have caught some flak but nothing like he's getting now. This crap that he didn't know his decision until he woke up that morning is just a slap in the face of every sensible sports fan. The King needs to fess up and take his medicine.

For someone not high on drugs or alcohol this was probably one of the most embarrassing moments of unprofessionalism by an athlete ever. This just sets the bar for future athletes to do the same thing. Thank heavens I didn't waste an hour of my life watching "The Decision". The fact that ESPN signed off on it is not surprising so they have to take a little of the blame for allowing this farce to go forward. I wonder how long before we have the first high school athlete getting his own one-hour show on ESPN to announce where he's signing.

It'll be fun to watch the Heat lose in the playoffs and listen to LeBron offer up his excuses for why they didn't win.

[both-teams-played-hard]

It'll be fun to watch the Heat lose in the playoffs and listen to LeBron offer up his excuses for why they didn't win.

How many non-basketball fans will be watching, just for that reason?

[otismalibu]

How is what Lebron did different than what Arod did?

The OP's question was why is Lebron getting so much hate. I don't think anyone is saying he's the first guy to do it.

I don't really follow baseball. Aren't most MLB clubs simply farm teams for the half dozen teams that ESPN follows? Teams start tanking in June then firesale their talent to the playoff teams.

See, Lebron made us think he was going to put a lowly NBA franchise on his back and take them to the promised land. Hell, he was almost there. He didn't pull an Elway/Lindros/Manning and cry to go to a contender before he'd even played a single pro game. He was looking old school. Get a great player and build the squad around him. The NBA is terribly watered down these days. One great player and some good role players and you can get pretty far. The Answer and Lebron both made the Finals with not much of a supporting cast. It's not like he needed an 80s kind of Lakers/Celtics HOF starting lineup. But I guess it was just looking like too much work.

He killed his image. And the way he handled it with The Decision when it had long been decided, was brutal.

[Jags Fan Dan]

Lebron leaving Cleveland was like an attractive guy dumping a less attractive girlfriend. She (Cleveland) was totally all about him, but he (obviously, Lebron) was not so much. And when he breaks up with her, do you expect a rational reaction from someone who is infatuated with somebody? Not going to happen. And everybody then feels sorry for the less attractive girl who can't understand how he could leave her when she loved him so much, no matter what reason he may or may not have had to break up with her.

I think that sums it up.:D

[spartakid]

Lebron leaving Cleveland was like an attractive guy dumping a less attractive girlfriend. She (Cleveland) was totally all about him, but he (obviously, Lebron) was not so much. And when he breaks up with her, do you expect a rational reaction from someone who is infatuated with somebody? Not going to happen. And everybody then feels sorry for the less attractive girl who can't understand how he could leave her when she loved him so much, no matter what reason he may or may not have had to break up with her.

I think that sums it up.:D

Best explanation by far ;)

[Nathan]

The whole thing was a poorly concocted charade of unprofessional garbage, that's why. And it offends me on several levels.

It offends me as a coach. I have a few years of coaching experience, and this basically says "The hell with loyalty, the hell with sticking it out. Just go somewhere with better players and you'll get what you really deserve." Great example for the kids.

It offends me as a competitor. Who exactly sits up and says "You know what I'd like to do? Join 'em rather than beat 'em. If I can't win in the playoffs in a relatively short period of time, then I'll find a way to stack the deck."

It offends me as an Ohioan. Of all people, a player in Cleveland who grew up in Akron should be extremely mindful of the history of sports in northeast Ohio, and even more mindful of exactly how much the teams mean to a region that has had so much adversity (outside the world of sports) and taken so much crap over the last 50 years.

It offends me as a courteous individual. If I leave a job, as I have before, you'd better believe I'm giving notice no matter how acrimonious it may be. If I have issues with my wife, you'd better believe I'm talking about them with her rather than emptying out the house and disappearing while she's off at work.

It offends me as someone who actually can recognize basic truth. Cleveland in the last two years had the NBA's best record twice and was 127-37. To hear the national media and a lot of other boneheads tell the story, it was LeBron James and a cast of poorly-trained cattle out there trying to go against the 1992 Dream Team, who besides having a roster of HOFers also had the "on fire" boosts from NBA Jam available at all times.

You know what I can do that LeBron James cannot do? I can go to northeast Ohio, as I do about once a month, and be able to eat at any restaurant and attend any event without being turned away. Let's see LeBron Modell try that sometime soon.


Lebron leaving Cleveland was like an attractive guy dumping a less attractive girlfriend. She (Cleveland) was totally all about him, but he (obviously, Lebron) was not so much. And when he breaks up with her, do you expect a rational reaction from someone who is infatuated with somebody? Not going to happen. And everybody then feels sorry for the less attractive girl who can't understand how he could leave her when she loved him so much, no matter what reason he may or may not have had to break up with her.

I think that sums it up.:D

Poor girl, who gets so close to the altar so many times and yet gets her heart torn out time and again. And everyone outside her inner circle just spends most of their time talking about how much of a skank she is, even though it's not the case.

[legaleagle92481]

I have a few issues with this.

"The whole thing was a poorly concocted charade of unprofessional garbage, that's why. And it offends me on several levels.

It offends me as a coach. I have a few years of coaching experience, and this basically says "The hell with loyalty, the hell with sticking it out. Just go somewhere with better players and you'll get what you really deserve." Great example for the kids. IF HE HAD GOTTEN INTO AN ACCIDENT ON JUNE 30th AND WAS UNABLE TO PLAY AGAIN WOULD THE CAVS OR ANY TEAM BEEN LOYAL TO HIM? OR IF IN A FEW YEARS HIS SKILLS DECLINED AND THE CAVS HAD CHANCE TO DEAL HIM FOR PLAYERS THEY FELT BETTER HELPED THEIR TEAM WOULD THEY? IT IS A BUSINESS.

It offends me as a competitor. Who exactly sits up and says "You know what I'd like to do? Join 'em rather than beat 'em. If I can't win in the playoffs in a relatively short period of time, then I'll find a way to stack the deck." WADE AND BOSH ARE NOT THE GUYS HE HAS TO BEAT: KOBE AND THE LAKERS ARE, THEY AND NOT THE HEAT ARE THE CHAMPS. THE CELTS AND MAGIC HE HAS TOO BEAT ALSO.

It offends me as an Ohioan. Of all people, a player in Cleveland who grew up in Akron should be extremely mindful of the history of sports in northeast Ohio, and even more mindful of exactly how much the teams mean to a region that has had so much adversity (outside the world of sports) and taken so much crap over the last 50 years. HE FELT HE TOOK THE TEAM AS FAR AS HE COULD IF HE RETIRED RINGLESS BECAUSE HE STAYED A CAV, IT IS HIS LEGACY THAT IS HURT WITH PEOPLE SAYING HE NEVER WON LIKE MARINO or STOCKTON.

It offends me as a courteous individual. If I leave a job, as I have before, you'd better believe I'm giving notice no matter how acrimonious it may be. If I have issues with my wife, you'd better believe I'm talking about them with her rather than emptying out the house and disappearing while she's off at work. HIS CONTRACT WAS UP HE WAS FREE TO GO WHERE HE WANTED.

Sorry for the caps just trying to make my comments stand out.

[legaleagle92481]

The OP's question was why is Lebron getting so much hate. I don't think anyone is saying he's the first guy to do it.

I don't really follow baseball. Aren't most MLB clubs simply farm teams for the half dozen teams that ESPN follows? Teams start tanking in June then firesale their talent to the playoff teams.

See, Lebron made us think he was going to put a lowly NBA franchise on his back and take them to the promised land. Hell, he was almost there. He didn't pull an Elway/Lindros/Manning and cry to go to a contender before he'd even played a single pro game. He was looking old school. Get a great player and build the squad around him. The NBA is terribly watered down these days. One great player and some good role players and you can get pretty far. The Answer and Lebron both made the Finals with not much of a supporting cast. It's not like he needed an 80s kind of Lakers/Celtics HOF starting lineup. But I guess it was just looking like too much work.

He killed his image. And the way he handled it with The Decision when it had long been decided, was brutal.

Baseball does have a different system my point is just now that AROD won noone is like well the way he went about it is not good enough as they are doing to Lebron. I don't feel sorry for the Cavs, I feel sorry for their fans. The NBA system rewards epic failure. The Cavs spent years making horrible picks i.e. Trajan Langdon, Diop, etc. and bad trades i.e. dealing Andre Miller for Darius Miles and lost year after year and finally won the lottery and did not screw it up only because they had the first pick and the guy the world agreed was going to be special was available. But Cavs fans are not alone. I live in New York we are the biggest market and the Knicks have stunk for a decade and besides now Amare have had noone worth watching for almost that entire time as those running the team have made bad move after bad move.

[BostonSportsFan]

ABCDE


I have a few issues with this.

"The whole thing was a poorly concocted charade of unprofessional garbage, that's why. And it offends me on several levels.

It offends me as a coach. I have a few years of coaching experience, and this basically says "The hell with loyalty, the hell with sticking it out. Just go somewhere with better players and you'll get what you really deserve." Great example for the kids. IF HE HAD GOTTEN INTO AN ACCIDENT ON JUNE 30th AND WAS UNABLE TO PLAY AGAIN WOULD THE CAVS OR ANY TEAM BEEN LOYAL TO HIM? OR IF IN A FEW YEARS HIS SKILLS DECLINED AND THE CAVS HAD CHANCE TO DEAL HIM FOR PLAYERS THEY FELT BETTER HELPED THEIR TEAM WOULD THEY? IT IS A BUSINESS.

It offends me as a competitor. Who exactly sits up and says "You know what I'd like to do? Join 'em rather than beat 'em. If I can't win in the playoffs in a relatively short period of time, then I'll find a way to stack the deck." WADE AND BOSH ARE NOT THE GUYS HE HAS TO BEAT: KOBE AND THE LAKERS ARE, THEY AND NOT THE HEAT ARE THE CHAMPS. THE CELTS AND MAGIC HE HAS TOO BEAT ALSO.

It offends me as an Ohioan. Of all people, a player in Cleveland who grew up in Akron should be extremely mindful of the history of sports in northeast Ohio, and even more mindful of exactly how much the teams mean to a region that has had so much adversity (outside the world of sports) and taken so much crap over the last 50 years. HE FELT HE TOOK THE TEAM AS FAR AS HE COULD IF HE RETIRED RINGLESS BECAUSE HE STAYED A CAV, IT IS HIS LEGACY THAT IS HURT WITH PEOPLE SAYING HE NEVER WON LIKE MARINO or STOCKTON.

I am sure LeBron felt he took this current team as far as he could. Again, I will say if managment got smart and got under the cap by 15 - 25 mil in the next season, then they could have gotten someone to take the money come to Cleveland and play with LeBron. Would LeBron ever have won with this current roster, probably not but they are close, one or two really good/all star players away from winning a title or at least they were very close. To say that if he was not patient and waited another season or two assuming that the Cavs moved forward and brought in more help that he could not have won is really a stretch. The irony here is that I am discounting the Heats ability to win this year with 3 All Stars and a bunch of junk that would not be the 8th or 9th man off the bench on almost any other team let alone starters or 6th men so he might still have to wait a year or more to win the title.

It offends me as a courteous individual. If I leave a job, as I have before, you'd better believe I'm giving notice no matter how acrimonious it may be. If I have issues with my wife, you'd better believe I'm talking about them with her rather than emptying out the house and disappearing while she's off at work. HIS CONTRACT WAS UP HE WAS FREE TO GO WHERE HE WANTED.

There is a professional way to handle any situation. Was LeBron free to go yes. Did he handle this correctly, in my opinion no. You are hard pressed to find anyone who thinks it is appropriate to suggest that having one of your reps call the team you played for 7 years five minutes before you go on the air to announce you are leaving. He could not even make that call himself. Just a very, very poor way to handle this. Obviously, LeBron does not have any real business acumen or sense or his advisors don't either as that was just low class and bush league. Again, it smelled of someone who was bitter and angry and wanted to stick it to the team for whatever reason. Normal professional individuals do not operate in that way.

Sorry for the caps just trying to make my comments stand out.

[legaleagle92481]

ABCDE

It would have been virually impossible for the Cavs to get under the cap, they have too many long term contracts held by players who noone else wants at those rates. Yes, a sign and trade is possible but truth be told how many free agents want to go to the Cavs even if Lebron was on the team. Twenty something, wealthy young men do not want to play in any city where there is limited nightlife. It is no coincidence that they picked Miami. Besides each other they get no State income tax and the premier nightlife scene in the USA.

The Heat roster is far from scrubs besides the big three. Haslem, Chamlers and Mike Miller are far from scrubs. Most rosters have roster filler once you get past the top seven or eight players anyway. It should be enough to get the Heat into the Finals although I do not think they have enough to beat the Lakers and Lebron will be able to watch Kobe get one for the other hand up close.

The way they handled the decision was unprofessional but his advisors are his childhood friends and young men in their mid 20s make decisions without thinking of stuff like that. David Falk or Arn Tellem would never have let a client behave that way so I think his downfall is he needs to be surrounded by more professional, experienced older advisors.

[Nathan]

I have a few issues with this.

"The whole thing was a poorly concocted charade of unprofessional garbage, that's why. And it offends me on several levels.

It offends me as a coach. I have a few years of coaching experience, and this basically says "The hell with loyalty, the hell with sticking it out. Just go somewhere with better players and you'll get what you really deserve." Great example for the kids. IF HE HAD GOTTEN INTO AN ACCIDENT ON JUNE 30th AND WAS UNABLE TO PLAY AGAIN WOULD THE CAVS OR ANY TEAM BEEN LOYAL TO HIM? OR IF IN A FEW YEARS HIS SKILLS DECLINED AND THE CAVS HAD CHANCE TO DEAL HIM FOR PLAYERS THEY FELT BETTER HELPED THEIR TEAM WOULD THEY? IT IS A BUSINESS.

Apples to giraffes to a ceiling fan, my friend.
- Although Mike Brown's firing was a foregone conclusion, Dan Gilbert waited 11 days before making a move. Why? Because it meant that Brown would collect his entire 2010-11 salary while being unemployed. I have a difficult time imagining that someone who shows that loyalty to someone who's being shown the door wouldn't be shown to someone as popular as LeBron.
- If a player is in the decline phase of his career, very few people would have an issue with him being moved in order to get a last best shot at being a part of a championship team. No one faults Ray Bourque, who had put in 20 years with the Boston Bruins, for being moved to Colorado for a last kick. And it's really not tough to sell it so there are no hard feelings toward the player. Bernie Kosar was moved, not by his choice, and ended up winning a Super Bowl with Dallas as a backup that same year. He's still the most popular athlete in Cleveland.


It offends me as a competitor. Who exactly sits up and says "You know what I'd like to do? Join 'em rather than beat 'em. If I can't win in the playoffs in a relatively short period of time, then I'll find a way to stack the deck." WADE AND BOSH ARE NOT THE GUYS HE HAS TO BEAT: KOBE AND THE LAKERS ARE, THEY AND NOT THE HEAT ARE THE CHAMPS. THE CELTS AND MAGIC HE HAS TOO BEAT ALSO.

Exactly, the Celtics and Magic. Rather than continue going head-to-head against those teams with his Cavaliers, he bailed out and stacked the deck.


It offends me as an Ohioan. Of all people, a player in Cleveland who grew up in Akron should be extremely mindful of the history of sports in northeast Ohio, and even more mindful of exactly how much the teams mean to a region that has had so much adversity (outside the world of sports) and taken so much crap over the last 50 years. HE FELT HE TOOK THE TEAM AS FAR AS HE COULD IF HE RETIRED RINGLESS BECAUSE HE STAYED A CAV, IT IS HIS LEGACY THAT IS HURT WITH PEOPLE SAYING HE NEVER WON LIKE MARINO or STOCKTON.

Stockton and Marino hung around their teams as long as they could for whatever reason. So did Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio. So has Todd Helton. When you've played 15 years and have no team awards to show for it, you're past the "villain" point if you decide to move on. 7 years is not 15 years.

Let me ask you this. If Peyton Manning sat up after the 2004 season and said "I've put in 7 years with Indy, we can't get past New England, so I'm going to the Patriots as a backup", what would the reaction be? I know exactly what it would be, and it's pretty much exactly what we've seen with LeBron for obvious reasons.


It offends me as a courteous individual. If I leave a job, as I have before, you'd better believe I'm giving notice no matter how acrimonious it may be. If I have issues with my wife, you'd better believe I'm talking about them with her rather than emptying out the house and disappearing while she's off at work. HIS CONTRACT WAS UP HE WAS FREE TO GO WHERE HE WANTED.

It doesn't make it right. He made up his mind months ago and didn't have the courtesy to say "I'm moving on after the year, so do what you can to improve the team without me being around." No, he waited until after several free agents had already signed and yet kept Cleveland hanging on the line.

To use my prior examples, I'm legally allowed to do a lot of things. It doesn't make them right; it would make me a jackass.


Baseball does have a different system my point is just now that AROD won noone is like well the way he went about it is not good enough as they are doing to Lebron. I don't feel sorry for the Cavs, I feel sorry for their fans. The NBA system rewards epic failure. The Cavs spent years making horrible picks i.e. Trajan Langdon, Diop, etc. and bad trades i.e. dealing Andre Miller for Darius Miles and lost year after year and finally won the lottery and did not screw it up only because they had the first pick and the guy the world agreed was going to be special was available. But Cavs fans are not alone. I live in New York we are the biggest market and the Knicks have stunk for a decade and besides now Amare have had noone worth watching for almost that entire time as those running the team have made bad move after bad move.

Yeah, New York has it pretty rough. It's been eight months since their last World Series win! (And 30 months since their last Super Bowl)

What you don't get in northeast Ohio are fans who split up several different ways. There aren't large numbers of people who support the Cavs, Indians, and Steelers; or the Browns, Indians, and Pacers. It's an entire area rooted in misery. There's been no titles since 1964, there's been an NFL team swiped away, an NHL team merged with another, and an owner so bad that the NBA had to create rules to prevent him from trading every first-rounder from 1979 to 2065. The idea of "the tortured New Yorkers" because of the Knicks is so laughable that I don't know where to begin with it.

[BostonSportsFan]

It would have been virually impossible for the Cavs to get under the cap, they have too many long term contracts held by players who noone else wants at those rates. Yes, a sign and trade is possible but truth be told how many free agents want to go to the Cavs even if Lebron was on the team. Twenty something, wealthy young men do not want to play in any city where there is limited nightlife. It is no coincidence that they picked Miami. Besides each other they get no State income tax and the premier nightlife scene in the USA.

The Heat roster is far from scrubs besides the big three. Haslem, Chamlers and Mike Miller are far from scrubs. Most rosters have roster filler once you get past the top seven or eight players anyway. It should be enough to get the Heat into the Finals although I do not think they have enough to beat the Lakers and Lebron will be able to watch Kobe get one for the other hand up close.

The way they handled the decision was unprofessional but his advisors are his childhood friends and young men in their mid 20s make decisions without thinking of stuff like that. David Falk or Arn Tellem would never have let a client behave that way so I think his downfall is he needs to be surrounded by more professional, experienced older advisors.


That is simply not true, check your current NBA contracts, currently Jamario Moon, Anthony Parker have expiring contracts in 2011 worth a total of 12 million, Delonte West contract expires in 2011 worth 12.5 million, JJ Hickson has a team option in 2011 worth 6.5 million. That alone puts the team at 30 million in lower salary plus they have several minimum contracts expiring in 2011. As of right now, according to an NBA cap expert, the Cavs if they did not resign all these players would have only 23 million committed in salary next season. Even if LeBron had reupped depending on the contract structure, they would have been at a minimum based on the current cap, been at least 20 million under the cap next year but as it stands they will be 35 million under.

I don't care what anyone says, even the experts agree that if you throw enough money at a player, they will go anywhere. Maybe not all will but some of them will. Gilbert seems to have very deep pockets and is willing to spend and go over the cap.

The mathmatics that are simply being tossed around are not correct, LeBron took what he felt was the easiest way out instead of giving the team another year or two to make continued strides forward simple as that.

[BostonSportsFan]

It would have been virually impossible for the Cavs to get under the cap, they have too many long term contracts held by players who noone else wants at those rates. Yes, a sign and trade is possible but truth be told how many free agents want to go to the Cavs even if Lebron was on the team. Twenty something, wealthy young men do not want to play in any city where there is limited nightlife. It is no coincidence that they picked Miami. Besides each other they get no State income tax and the premier nightlife scene in the USA.

The Heat roster is far from scrubs besides the big three. Haslem, Chamlers and Mike Miller are far from scrubs. Most rosters have roster filler once you get past the top seven or eight players anyway. It should be enough to get the Heat into the Finals although I do not think they have enough to beat the Lakers and Lebron will be able to watch Kobe get one for the other hand up close.

The way they handled the decision was unprofessional but his advisors are his childhood friends and young men in their mid 20s make decisions without thinking of stuff like that. David Falk or Arn Tellem would never have let a client behave that way so I think his downfall is he needs to be surrounded by more professional, experienced older advisors.

The other factor is that Chalmers is a complete scrub, Haslem is a barely servicable player would not start anywhere else, and Miller is a one trick pony, keep a hand in his face and he is done.

[legaleagle92481]

That is simply not true, check your current NBA contracts, currently Jamario Moon, Anthony Parker have expiring contracts in 2011 worth a total of 12 million, Delonte West contract expires in 2011 worth 12.5 million, JJ Hickson has a team option in 2011 worth 6.5 million. That alone puts the team at 30 million in lower salary plus they have several minimum contracts expiring in 2011. As of right now, according to an NBA cap expert, the Cavs if they did not resign all these players would have only 23 million committed in salary next season. Even if LeBron had reupped depending on the contract structure, they would have been at a minimum based on the current cap, been at least 20 million under the cap next year but as it stands they will be 35 million under.

I don't care what anyone says, even the experts agree that if you throw enough money at a player, they will go anywhere. Maybe not all will but some of them will. Gilbert seems to have very deep pockets and is willing to spend and go over the cap.

The mathmatics that are simply being tossed around are not correct, LeBron took what he felt was the easiest way out instead of giving the team another year or two to make continued strides forward simple as that.

Your figures are off. This upcoming season they have 49 million committed. Next year without Hickson they have 36 for only four guys. Lebron would have gotten the max which I believe for him would have been 16 something which would have put them at 65 million this year and 52 million next year with having to add several players just to meet the roster minimum. The cap this year is 58 million next year it will probably be like 60 million. The Cavs would have had no room to add anyone in either year off the open market. People said Lebron should have resigned for three years and right there two would have been spent with a roster unable to be improved much. The pay enough go anywhere idea does not work in the NBA because there is a max salary and contract length.

[legaleagle92481]

Apples to giraffes to a ceiling fan, my friend.
- Although Mike Brown's firing was a foregone conclusion, Dan Gilbert waited 11 days before making a move. Why? Because it meant that Brown would collect his entire 2010-11 salary while being unemployed. I have a difficult time imagining that someone who shows that loyalty to someone who's being shown the door wouldn't be shown to someone as popular as LeBron.
- If a player is in the decline phase of his career, very few people would have an issue with him being moved in order to get a last best shot at being a part of a championship team. No one faults Ray Bourque, who had put in 20 years with the Boston Bruins, for being moved to Colorado for a last kick. And it's really not tough to sell it so there are no hard feelings toward the player. Bernie Kosar was moved, not by his choice, and ended up winning a Super Bowl with Dallas as a backup that same year. He's still the most popular athlete in Cleveland.



Exactly, the Celtics and Magic. Rather than continue going head-to-head against those teams with his Cavaliers, he bailed out and stacked the deck.



Stockton and Marino hung around their teams as long as they could for whatever reason. So did Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio. So has Todd Helton. When you've played 15 years and have no team awards to show for it, you're past the "villain" point if you decide to move on. 7 years is not 15 years.

Let me ask you this. If Peyton Manning sat up after the 2004 season and said "I've put in 7 years with Indy, we can't get past New England, so I'm going to the Patriots as a backup", what would the reaction be? I know exactly what it would be, and it's pretty much exactly what we've seen with LeBron for obvious reasons.



It doesn't make it right. He made up his mind months ago and didn't have the courtesy to say "I'm moving on after the year, so do what you can to improve the team without me being around." No, he waited until after several free agents had already signed and yet kept Cleveland hanging on the line.

To use my prior examples, I'm legally allowed to do a lot of things. It doesn't make them right; it would make me a jackass.



Yeah, New York has it pretty rough. It's been eight months since their last World Series win! (And 30 months since their last Super Bowl)

What you don't get in northeast Ohio are fans who split up several different ways. There aren't large numbers of people who support the Cavs, Indians, and Steelers; or the Browns, Indians, and Pacers. It's an entire area rooted in misery. There's been no titles since 1964, there's been an NFL team swiped away, an NHL team merged with another, and an owner so bad that the NBA had to create rules to prevent him from trading every first-rounder from 1979 to 2065. The idea of "the tortured New Yorkers" because of the Knicks is so laughable that I don't know where to begin with it.

My point was not them sending him somewhere to win a ring but because he was not the same player he has been and they just felt it was time to dump him and his contract. Players decline fast in the NBA look at Penny, Francis, T Mac, Grant Hill and on and on.

The outcome of going head to head with those teams was never going to change. The Cavs simply were not as good as the Magic, Celts or Lakers barring an injury to Howard, Garnett or Kobe. The postseason results bare that out.

Peyton going to the Pats as a backup is different. The backup QB seldom plays on a Super Bowl team. Only one QB can play at a time. Lebron is starting on the Heat.

You guys have had it rough no doubt. But look around the Country. Yeah New York has the Yanks but many New Yorkers myself included do not root for them because it is like rooting for Microsoft or Apple or any major business. They in many ways buy rings. The other teams stink. The Jets and Giants moved out of State on us, so the Super Bowl belongs to NJ not NY. The Islanders, Rangers, Knicks and Mets are all medicore or terrible for years now without any real stars save David Wright and we are getting the Nets who won 12 games last year.

Other cities have similar issues. Atlanta has the Falcons, Thrashers and Hawks who have never won a title. The Thrashers lost their biggest star last year because he would not take 100 million to stay there. They also have the Braves that won 1 title in 14 straight postseasons and choked constantly.

Seattle lost their NBA team to Oklahoma of all places. They have an NFL and MLB team that has never won anything. The Mariners also lost Arod, Griffey and the Unit in a two year span and got little in return.

Washington DC has a hockey team that flops every year. A last place baseball team and a football team that has stunk for going on twenty years.

San Diego has no NBA team and a baseball and football team that have never won anything and let HOfers go i.e. Brees and soon Adrian Gonzalez.

[Nathan]

My point was not them sending him somewhere to win a ring but because he was not the same player he has been and they just felt it was time to dump him and his contract. Players decline fast in the NBA look at Penny, Francis, T Mac, Grant Hill and on and on.

The third-most reviled person in Cleveland is Bill Belichick. It's not because he's a slimeball or a cheater, it's because he dumped Bernie Kosar. There is nothing in sports more cold and callous than NFL football, and it didn't matter that Kosar was obviously on the decline. Belichick did the unforgivable: he unloaded the most popular and best player for non-injury and non-off-field reasons.


The outcome of going head to head with those teams was never going to change. The Cavs simply were not as good as the Magic, Celts or Lakers barring an injury to Howard, Garnett or Kobe. The postseason results bare that out.

Why, because as of 2010, the Cavs couldn't get past those teams? The Celtics are on the decline as their core ages and retires, the Magic are a toss-up, and the Lakers will be losing Phil Jackson soon. And given the crapshoot that the playoffs largely are, I have a real difficult time buying into the idea that "The Cavs had peaked, and that's that."

Here's the other side of that coin. Other teams had their top players recruiting free agents. Where was LeBron in all of this over the last three or four years?


Peyton going to the Pats as a backup is different. The backup QB seldom plays on a Super Bowl team. Only one QB can play at a time. Lebron is starting on the Heat.

If LeBron had been asked to come off the bench in Cleveland, he'd have gone ballistic. If he were asked to come off the bench for the Heat, would the reaction be the same? Apparently, living it up in South Beach was the real goal to be pursued (remember what he said: "I'm taking my talents to South Beach", even though the team offices are in Miami, the team is called "Miami", and the arena is in Miami).


You guys have had it rough no doubt. But look around the Country. Yeah New York has the Yanks but many New Yorkers myself included do not root for them because it is like rooting for Microsoft or Apple or any major business. They in many ways buy rings. The other teams stink. The Jets and Giants moved out of State on us, so the Super Bowl belongs to NJ not NY. The Islanders, Rangers, Knicks and Mets are all medicore or terrible for years now without any real stars save David Wright and we are getting the Nets who won 12 games last year.

Other cities have similar issues. Atlanta has the Falcons, Thrashers and Hawks who have never won a title. The Thrashers lost their biggest star last year because he would not take 100 million to stay there. They also have the Braves that won 1 title in 14 straight postseasons and choked constantly.

Seattle lost their NBA team to Oklahoma of all places. They have an NFL and MLB team that has never won anything. The Mariners also lost Arod, Griffey and the Unit in a two year span and got little in return.

Washington DC has a hockey team that flops every year. A last place baseball team and a football team that has stunk for going on twenty years.

San Diego has no NBA team and a baseball and football team that have never won anything and let HOfers go i.e. Brees and soon Adrian Gonzalez.

Every other city that has been devastated over the last 40 years by a shrinking manufacturing base, had the school system taken over, seen numerous higher-up government officials imprisoned for corruption and misconduct, had a river ignite, and be tagged nationally with a name that uses the word "mistake", come to the front of the line.

Only Detroit comes close, and that's only for non-sports issues. And they've had a recent NBA title with the Pistons, the Tigers rising up from the dead, the Red Wings winning four times in the last 13 years, and...the Lions. And Detroit did not had a native son elevate the Tigers from the depths to contention, then bail out because "it's too boring here" or whatever stupid reason could be concocted.

(Also, San Diego had the 1963 Chargers, which is one of the great teams in history that did win an AFL title.)

[BostonSportsFan]

Your figures are off. This upcoming season they have 49 million committed. Next year without Hickson they have 36 for only four guys. Lebron would have gotten the max which I believe for him would have been 16 something which would have put them at 65 million this year and 52 million next year with having to add several players just to meet the roster minimum. The cap this year is 58 million next year it will probably be like 60 million. The Cavs would have had no room to add anyone in either year off the open market. People said Lebron should have resigned for three years and right there two would have been spent with a roster unable to be improved much. The pay enough go anywhere idea does not work in the NBA because there is a max salary and contract length. :mad:

[BostonSportsFan]

:mad:

I am not sure where you are getting your figures but they are way off. I will post links to several sources that were updated after the LeBron move. Your figures are not even close to what is available

[legaleagle92481]

I am not sure where you are getting your figures but they are way off. I will post links to several sources that were updated after the LeBron move. Your figures are not even close to what is available

This year:
Salary cap is 58 million. Currently under contract is:

Jamison 13.3 Million
Mo Williams 9.3 Mil
Varejo-7 Mil
Gibson-4 mil.
Moon-3 mil
Parker-2.8 mil.
Telfair-2.7 mil
Hickson-1.5 Mil.
Powe-915,000
Williams-1 mil.

Non guarenteed
West-4.5 mil.-500k guarenteed if cut.
Green-762,000

Next year
Jamison-15 mil.
Mo Williams 8.5 mil.
Varejo-7.7 Mil.
Gibson 4.4 mil.

[legaleagle92481]

The third-most reviled person in Cleveland is Bill Belichick. It's not because he's a slimeball or a cheater, it's because he dumped Bernie Kosar. There is nothing in sports more cold and callous than NFL football, and it didn't matter that Kosar was obviously on the decline. Belichick did the unforgivable: he unloaded the most popular and best player for non-injury and non-off-field reasons.



Why, because as of 2010, the Cavs couldn't get past those teams? The Celtics are on the decline as their core ages and retires, the Magic are a toss-up, and the Lakers will be losing Phil Jackson soon. And given the crapshoot that the playoffs largely are, I have a real difficult time buying into the idea that "The Cavs had peaked, and that's that."

Here's the other side of that coin. Other teams had their top players recruiting free agents. Where was LeBron in all of this over the last three or four years?



If LeBron had been asked to come off the bench in Cleveland, he'd have gone ballistic. If he were asked to come off the bench for the Heat, would the reaction be the same? Apparently, living it up in South Beach was the real goal to be pursued (remember what he said: "I'm taking my talents to South Beach", even though the team offices are in Miami, the team is called "Miami", and the arena is in Miami).



Every other city that has been devastated over the last 40 years by a shrinking manufacturing base, had the school system taken over, seen numerous higher-up government officials imprisoned for corruption and misconduct, had a river ignite, and be tagged nationally with a name that uses the word "mistake", come to the front of the line.

Only Detroit comes close, and that's only for non-sports issues. And they've had a recent NBA title with the Pistons, the Tigers rising up from the dead, the Red Wings winning four times in the last 13 years, and...the Lions. And Detroit did not had a native son elevate the Tigers from the depths to contention, then bail out because "it's too boring here" or whatever stupid reason could be concocted.

(Also, San Diego had the 1963 Chargers, which is one of the great teams in history that did win an AFL title.)

In the past couple of years what major free agent has hit the market before this summer that Lebron could have recruited? By my count no major free agent has switched teams in the past three-four years before this summer.

The other cities I mentioned all have their own major non-sports issues as well.

The Browns had a more recent title than the Chargers as they won in 1964 and best NFL player ever in Jim Brown.

Buffalo is another example. The Bills lost four straight super bowls and a stanley cup final. They had Scott Norwood, the Hull goal that beat the Sabres in the Finals. The City has never won a title and the Bills play some of their home games in Canada.

And New York fans have endured alot of sports heartache as well. The Dodgers and Giants left us. The Jets and football Giants left us. O'Malley the man responsible for the Dodgers leaving made the HOF at least Moddell has not yet made it. The Mets traded Tom Seaver in his prime and Nolan Ryan before his prime. The Nets when they were here traded Dr. J in his prime.

[gingi79]

My first response is, had he re-signed with Cleveland, does anyone think their current team would win a title in the next 5 years? If you do, I question if you are thinking as a die hard blinded Cavs fan. I just cannot believe an NBA fan with knowledge of what it takes to win today would think the Cavs had a chance.

After reading the responses to this thread, my suspicions have been largely confirmed. So let me "wade" (sorry for the Pun) through everything that was said with great emphasis and euphemistic language to get to the core response.

Had Lebron recruited Wade and Bosh to play in Cleveland rather than Wade recruiting James and Bosh to Miami, no one would be upset? That's how I read it. People are pissed he left Cleveland because Cleveland is the ugly girl with a great personality that everyone likes but no one wants to date. So because he picked Jessica Simpson instead of Nicki Blonsky (the girl from Hairspray) we should be pissed because Nicki is so nice and never gets any love?

Cleveland's poor athletic history is not LeBron James' fault. Oh he's from there? Why is that relevant? Anyone who followed this debacle should know they all got together and didn't sign in Ohio BECAUSE they are young, very rich guys who want to party. Does that make him immature? Is he thinking with the wrong head? Sure! And I'll be honest enough to say, I CAN'T BLAME HIM for wanting to live in Miami rather than Cleveland.

I started this thread saying I understand Cavs fans being pissed the best player in your history spurned you. I'm a Canucks fan, ask me how heart wrenching Pavel Bure's trade was for me. If you are mad AS A CAVS FAN, then I accept you have reason to hate him. However, Cleveland doesn't offer anything for these guys except fans. Nothing. So the problem is..... Cleveland. You can't make it South Beach or LA or NYC. Once again, not LeBron's fault that there is nothing to attract Free Agents.

Fans will always be in whatever town he plays for. If you want to hate him because of how he left, fine. But hating a guy for fearing Cleveland will never win a title seems counterproductive. Cleveland has never won a title in the NBA. He'd rather team up and party and enjoy his life and have other players help him get over the hump. If he falls on his face, then laugh at him and feel redeemed that he was wrong.

[otismalibu]

My first response is, had he re-signed with Cleveland, does anyone think their current team would win a title in the next 5 years?

In what league does a current team play together for 5 years?


I just cannot believe an NBA fan with knowledge of what it takes to win today would think the Cavs had a chance.

Yeah, the Cavs have been terrible the last couple of seasons and would most likely continue to be terrible with James.


Had Lebron recruited Wade and Bosh to play in Cleveland rather than Wade recruiting James and Bosh to Miami, no one would be upset?

I'd want Wade to retire with the Heat. He was The King in that Finals against the Mavs. Still not sure how they won. No one wants to play in Toronto. Players get good and they leave. Farm team.


Cleveland has never won a title in the NBA.

So let's just remove all the NBA teams who have never won a title. Obviously, if they've not won a title yet, they never will. Perfect logic.

He plays basketball for a living. He make huge amounts of money. He's treated like royalty. Yet he still had to find a way to make things a little easier. Maybe they should let him shoot at a larger hoop in the 4th quarter too.

[Nathan]

My first response is, had he re-signed with Cleveland, does anyone think their current team would win a title in the next 5 years? If you do, I question if you are thinking as a die hard blinded Cavs fan. I just cannot believe an NBA fan with knowledge of what it takes to win today would think the Cavs had a chance.

After reading the responses to this thread, my suspicions have been largely confirmed. So let me "wade" (sorry for the Pun) through everything that was said with great emphasis and euphemistic language to get to the core response.

Had Lebron recruited Wade and Bosh to play in Cleveland rather than Wade recruiting James and Bosh to Miami, no one would be upset? That's how I read it. People are pissed he left Cleveland because Cleveland is the ugly girl with a great personality that everyone likes but no one wants to date. So because he picked Jessica Simpson instead of Nicki Blonsky (the girl from Hairspray) we should be pissed because Nicki is so nice and never gets any love?

People are pissed because the Cavaliers bent over backwards to cater to his every desire, and he still went the jackass route in the way that this all happened. I said a couple times before that if I make up my mind to switch jobs or make a major move, the intimately involved parties will have knowledge as early as possible so that they can move on.

The fact that Cleveland was left on the line at the expense of making pitches for other free agents (or adding draft picks, or several other things) is...well, it's not right.


Cleveland's poor athletic history is not LeBron James' fault. Oh he's from there? Why is that relevant? Anyone who followed this debacle should know they all got together and didn't sign in Ohio BECAUSE they are young, very rich guys who want to party. Does that make him immature? Is he thinking with the wrong head? Sure! And I'll be honest enough to say, I CAN'T BLAME HIM for wanting to live in Miami rather than Cleveland.

I can, but I'm a fiercely proud and very biased Ohioan.;)


I started this thread saying I understand Cavs fans being pissed the best player in your history spurned you. I'm a Canucks fan, ask me how heart wrenching Pavel Bure's trade was for me. If you are mad AS A CAVS FAN, then I accept you have reason to hate him. However, Cleveland doesn't offer anything for these guys except fans. Nothing. So the problem is..... Cleveland. You can't make it South Beach or LA or NYC. Once again, not LeBron's fault that there is nothing to attract Free Agents.

Cleveland is a city desperate enough for someone to adore that past greats (who honestly weren't great in an all-time context) are revered to the level of demigods. The most popular Cavs are Mark Price and Brad Dougherty. The most popular Browns are Bernie Kosar and a number of other lesser players. The most popular Indians would come from the 1990s. And so on.

The common theme is what I've referred to as "the Moses Effect". A player who plays an integral role in a team's rise from the abyss to either glory or the cusp of glory and doesn't shoot himself in the foot is revered. Trevor Linden would be a good comparison; even if he had become a permanent fourth-liner in the lockout year, there's always 1994. And unlike some others from that team (Jeff Brown and Bure), he didn't do anything on his own to screw that up.


Fans will always be in whatever town he plays for. If you want to hate him because of how he left, fine. But hating a guy for fearing Cleveland will never win a title seems counterproductive. Cleveland has never won a title in the NBA. He'd rather team up and party and enjoy his life and have other players help him get over the hump. If he falls on his face, then laugh at him and feel redeemed that he was wrong.

I tell my wife all the time that I'd rather be recognized as right and see my vision come to pass then rather than be vindicated years down the road. Cleveland's lack of success in the NBA is both obvious and yet was still changing. From 17 wins in 2002-03 to 127 wins over the last two years...every great team has had to face adversity and come up short before breaking through. Edmonton in the early 80s lost to the Kings and got stomped by the Islanders before breaking through. The Islanders had several disappointments. Detroit had plenty of disappointments. Colorado had years of them in Quebec. And so on.

[JasonM33]

Lebron is getting a lot of hate because of the way he has conducted himself. The "Decision" and his introductory celebration in Miami were very tacky and off-putting. Then he starts counting off 6, 7, 8 championships like they've already been won. Dude, how about you win one first. If he pretended to have a little humility then he might win some fans back.

However he want's to spin it, leaving Cleveland to join Wade and Bosh is going to cheapen any championships that they "may" win in the future. His so-called legacy that fans and sportswriters are so obessed with, is going to take a hit. Right or wrong he is going to be seen as a guy who couldn't beat them so he joined them. Then if they don't win at least a couple of championships he's going to be an even bigger joke.

Good luck dude

[cohibasmoker]

It's about the bucks. Cleveland seems to have a unfair City Wage tax and when coupled with the tax rate of the State of Ohio, it's about a 8% hit just in City and State taxes.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/11962

In Florida, there aren't any State Income taxes. Read the below article and while some people think it's Patriotic to pay their taxes, some people MAY NOT feel the same way.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/26503.html

Read both articles and you guys decide.

Jim

PS: Hope I didn't offend anyone

[BostonSportsFan]

This year:
Salary cap is 58 million. Currently under contract is:

Jamison 13.3 Million
Mo Williams 9.3 Mil
Varejo-7 Mil
Gibson-4 mil.
Moon-3 mil
Parker-2.8 mil.
Telfair-2.7 mil
Hickson-1.5 Mil.
Powe-915,000
Williams-1 mil.

Non guarenteed
West-4.5 mil.-500k guarenteed if cut.
Green-762,000

Next year
Jamison-15 mil.
Mo Williams 8.5 mil.
Varejo-7.7 Mil.
Gibson 4.4 mil.

What you have to take into consideration here is Jamison's huge expiring contract could be major trade bait next year or during the 11/12 season. Jamison is under contract only through 2011/12. The Cavs currently only have 22 Million guarenteed in 2012/13. I know in a world where everyone wants everything right now, that it would be extremely difficult for the Queen to wait two more seasons to win but again, he would be 27 years old then. At that point with him on the roster maxed out, they would have been at least 18 mil under the cap and still have the annual mid level exception to spend plus veteran minimum contracts that they could spend even if they went over the cap. That is also considering that if LeBron wants to win so bad, take a pay cut to stay home, leave $5 - $8 mil a year on the table like he was willing to do in Miami and allow the Cavs to use that to sign future players when they have the roster open to be able to do that. Also in 2012/13, Mo Williams, Gibson and Hickson are also all in expiring contracts, so again, you can use them as trade bait if you wanted to to pick up other expiring contracts or try to get actual decent players off of teams trying to clear space themselves.

Lets say that LeBron said to Bosh and Wade, I am not leaving and that is that. Maybe Bosh came, maybe he didn't, but people are really serious that they think if the money was available, maybe not this year, maybe next year etc. that someone would not have taken a max contract to play in Cleveland. I love Miami too but come on guys that is stupidity.

Yeah, you still have to fill out a roster, but you can do that with the mid level and veterans minimum contracts that are available as the heat are doing now even if you are over the cap.

You can't tell me that veteran players would not take the minimum to go play in Cleveland if he elected to stay just because it was Cleveland if they really thought that they could in fact win.

Cleveland did not need a major roster overhaul, again, best record in the league two straight years. If they got a really good shooter or two and someone servicable off the bench, they could have at least competed for and probably gotten out of the East in the next two years.

Again, I don't care that he left, but to suggest that just because Cleveland has never won that they never will is just ridiculous. If you get the right front office people to run the team, anything can be accomplished. Look at teams like San Antonio, Boston, LA, Miami now in terms of maximizing what you have to spend, making the right decisions, putting good contracts on the table etc.

It might have taken a few more years but it could have been done. The Queen just did not want to wait around instead he wanted to take the easy way out.

[legaleagle92481]

What do you guys think of Chris Paul demanding a trade? Unlike Lebron he has TWO YEARS left on his deal. He wants to go to the Magic where he can join Dwight Howard to form the league's best big man-point guard combo with the league's strongest supporting cast even if they have to trade Nelson and another player or two and some picks for him. Championships likely would follow and the Hornets the only team he ever played for would be left with one of the league's worst rosters.

[dirtyla2000]

What do you guys think of Chris Paul demanding a trade? Unlike Lebron he has TWO YEARS left on his deal. He wants to go to the Magic where he can join Dwight Howard to form the league's best big man-point guard combo with the league's strongest supporting cast even if they have to trade Nelson and another player or two and some picks for him. Championships likely would follow and the Hornets the only team he ever played for would be left with one of the league's worst rosters.
At least he gave the Hornets more than 5 minutes notice,unlike Leb_tch James !

[legaleagle92481]

Saw the following attributed to Kevin Garnett: He has stated that you can't get back youth and he regrets being as loyal to the Twolves as he was and if he could do it over he would have forced his way out years before he finally did.

[sox83cubs84]

The NBA has bigger divas than Hollywood!

Dave Miedema

[legaleagle92481]

The NBA has bigger divas than Hollywood!

Dave Miedema

I actually find it really funny. Everyone gives this so much attention, in other sports guys change teams constantly. Cliff Lee one of best arms in MLB has been on four teams since 2008, with a fifth to come in 2011 possibly. Arod has been on three teams, Griffey was on four and on and on.

The NBA has had superteams for years. Bird had McHale, Parrish, Johnson, Archibald, McAdoo and Walton as Teamates. Magic had Worthy and Abdul Jabbar. Jordan had Pippen and Rodman. The Pistons had Thomas, Dumars and Rodman. The 70s Knicks had Monroe, Frazier, Reed, Dave D., Lucas and Bradley. The 60s Celts had Bill Russell, Havlicheck, Cousy, Cowens, Henishon, Sharman and Sam Jones. Robertson changed teams to team up with Kareem. Wilt changed teams to team with West and Baylor. This Bosh, Wade and James team is no different and is actually inferior to many of those teams.

[otismalibu]

The NBA has had superteams for years. Bird had McHale, Parrish, Johnson, Archibald, McAdoo and Walton as Teamates. Magic had Worthy and Abdul Jabbar. Jordan had Pippen and Rodman. The Pistons had Thomas, Dumars and Rodman. The 70s Knicks had Monroe, Frazier, Reed, Dave D., Lucas and Bradley. The 60s Celts had Bill Russell, Havlicheck, Cousy, Cowens, Henishon, Sharman and Sam Jones. Robertson changed teams to team up with Kareem. Wilt changed teams to team with West and Baylor. This Bosh, Wade and James team is no different and is actually inferior to many of those teams.

My head is starting to hurt. You do realize a good portion of the players listed above were drafted by the team, right?

Go thru each NBA season and list the top 3 players from that year. Then make a list of instances where one of those top 3 players went to a team that included one of the other two.

[legaleagle92481]

My head is starting to hurt. You do realize a good portion of the players listed above were drafted by the team, right?

Go thru each NBA season and list the top 3 players from that year. Then make a list of instances where one of those top 3 players went to a team that included one of the other two.

1. Back in the day the league had many less teams and no salary cap so teams were able to stockpile good players via the draft and keep them.

2. Free agency is a relatively new thing so many of the players I listed did not have the right to pick and choose teams.

3. Wade is not a top three player. He is not the 2006 version anymore. Kobe, Howard, Durant, Lebron are defintely superior. In no particular order guys like Garnett (when healthy), Duncan, Dirk, Nash, Derrick Rose, Carmelo and Chris Paul are arguably equal or superior players. While defintely top ten top three is a reach.In history similar moves are Moses Malone going to Philly and helping your man Dr. J. get his ring. Robertson going to play with Kareem and Wilt joining Baylor and West. All of those players were top ten players joining other top ten players.

Originally I opposed the move but after thinking about it I have no problem with it.

[otismalibu]

Wade is not a top three player. He is not the 2006 version anymore. Kobe, Howard, Durant, Lebron are defintely superior.

I'll admit I don't keep up much with hoops anymore. But if he's healthy. I'd still put Wade in the top 3 with Bryant & James. He's not even 30 yet. Howard has to be one of the most overrated players I've seen. Haven't seen much of Durant, but he looks good. Still young.

Moses going to the Sixers was in the ballpark. Erving MVP in '81, Malone MVP in '82, teamed up in '83 where Malone was MVP again. No Bosh-like addition to that team and Doc was 4 years older than Wade and on the downside of his career. One ring and done for that team.

[legaleagle92481]

I'll admit I don't keep up much with hoops anymore. But if he's healthy. I'd still put Wade in the top 3 with Bryant & James. He's not even 30 yet. Howard has to be one of the most overrated players I've seen. Haven't seen much of Durant, but he looks good. Still young.

Moses going to the Sixers was in the ballpark. Erving MVP in '81, Malone MVP in '82, teamed up in '83 where Malone was MVP again. No Bosh-like addition to that team and Doc was 4 years older than Wade and on the downside of his career. One ring and done for that team.

There is no guarentee the Heat will even get one, the Lakers, Magic and Celts are tough, very deep teams. What I like about it is it creates a buzz around the NBA that there has not been in awhile and it will lure more fans into the game and create an attraction that fans clamor to see when it comes to town, even if it is to boo them as a villian team like they do to the Yankees in alot of cities.

[joelsabi]

There is no guarentee the Heat will even get one, the Lakers, Magic and Celts are tough, very deep teams. What I like about it is it creates a buzz around the NBA that there has not been in awhile and it will lure more fans into the game and create an attraction that fans clamor to see when it comes to town, even if it is to boo them as a villian team like they do to the Yankees in alot of cities.

The three teams you mention have size and strength. As the saying goes "you can't teach height" and I don't see much height on the Heat yet. Before the Heats worry about the Lakers they need to worry about the Magics in their own division and the Celtics in their own conference.

The Lakers are quietly improving depth to their team. Steve Blake to alleviate some pressure off Fisher. Matt Barnes as a backup to give Artest and Kobe some rest. Theo Ratliff gives them another big man with defensive skills. I wont mention the two young forwards who received good reviews at the Summer League -- Ebanks and Characters. I am looking forward to the upcoming season. Just need Bynam and Odom both healthy by playoff time.

[Nathan]

What do you guys think of Chris Paul demanding a trade? Unlike Lebron he has TWO YEARS left on his deal. He wants to go to the Magic where he can join Dwight Howard to form the league's best big man-point guard combo with the league's strongest supporting cast even if they have to trade Nelson and another player or two and some picks for him. Championships likely would follow and the Hornets the only team he ever played for would be left with one of the league's worst rosters.

A guy with five years in (in a league that isn't the NFL) demanding a trade because the team isn't as successful as he would have hoped by now.

Screw him too.

[Nathan]

Saw the following attributed to Kevin Garnett: He has stated that you can't get back youth and he regrets being as loyal to the Twolves as he was and if he could do it over he would have forced his way out years before he finally did.

The end result with Garnett is this.

- He made as much cash as he could have by staying with Minnesota
- His career was going to be declining at this point anyway
- By staying in Minnesota through lean times, then being moved and winning a championship, the perception of Garnett and his overall image is substantially more positive than it would have been if he'd pulled a LeBron Modell

[VerifiedAutographsCom]

I thought it was a players right to choose their new team during free agency? Players from all sports demand trades and go to new teams and it has never been a big problem like this. I think people need to let the man do his job and lighten up. The Cavs owner Dan Gilbert acted like a child and led a campaign of negativity against LeBron. It's a business and LeBron made a business decision. Imagine if you were hated by the entire universe because you picked a new job in another state????? People are so critical of others. The world would be a better place if people held themselves to the same standards expected of others. Raise your hand if you've divorced a wife? lol.

LeBron could have saved the "Talents to South Beach" press conference and he should have spoke to his teammates and the owner of the Cavs first, but just because he makes hundreds of millions and is a great ball player doesnt mean that he is always going to make wise decisions off the court.

P.S. As for as the finals....... You haters got under his skin and he choked. He is human after all. Is that so bad?