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legaleagle92481
08-04-2010, 12:57 PM
Congrats on this amazing achievement!! The question though is due homer totals matter anymore? I think they still do because despite all the cheating here is the 600 homer club:

Bonds, Aaron, Ruth, Mays, Griffey, Sosa, Arod. Six guys that is it. Thome will probably make it. Manny looks doubtful to get there as he probably will retire after this year for lack of a team wishing to employ him. Sheffield is essentially retired and even if he returned no way he hits 80 plus more homers. Delgado I believe is next and he is also essentially retired unlikely to even reach 500. Chipper won't reach 500. Andruw Jones and Vlad are still a ways from 500 both unlikely to sniff even 550. The next guy probably will be Cabera, Pujols, Howard, Dunn or Prince Fielder many years from now.

cjclong
08-04-2010, 01:11 PM
Hitting 600 is a great accomplishment. To be one of only 7 players in the history of the game to do it speaks for itself. It will be interesting to see how far beyond 600 he is able to go.

ahuff
08-04-2010, 01:20 PM
WOO HOO.

I personally could care less about 600 or what A-Roid does. It would have meant something had we not had to question how much of it he did clean.

joelsabi
08-04-2010, 01:28 PM
Hitting 600 is a great accomplishment. To be one of only 7 players in the history of the game to do it speaks for itself. It will be interesting to see how far beyond 600 he is able to go.

I agree. By the end of the year he will pass Sosa and next year he will pass Griffey's career total. When I started watching ARod, I would never have imagined ARod passing Griffey in home runs. Just shows how unpredictable final hr totals can be. It will be interesting to see how the fans will react if and when he passes each great homerun hitter.

mbrieve
08-04-2010, 01:38 PM
Cheater.

kellsox
08-04-2010, 01:39 PM
I believe that the average baseball fan has only passing interest in Arod's milestone home runs. He was looked upon by the public as being the "clean guy" as Bonds set HR marks and then it turned out that admitted to juicing for several seasons(and who knows how many others) People got tired of it all. Now if it never came out that he was a user- or if he were actually clean, there would be a lot more hoopla and celebration.
k

sox83cubs84
08-04-2010, 01:39 PM
Also...it was 3 years ago today that he clubbed #500!

Dave Miedema

Fnazxc0114
08-04-2010, 02:06 PM
how about putting all these guys in the book with a big * next to their name. Not sure how many homers he hit with the rangers, but those should be stripped from his career stats.

cjclong
08-04-2010, 02:45 PM
MLB quotes Hank Aaron as saying that whether you put an * by the record or not what ARod has done is a great achievement. If Aaron feels that way the rest of you guys ought to accept it as that.

cjclong
08-04-2010, 02:48 PM
And Tony, I don't know if you will see this, but if you do I hope you saw 600 live and if not I know you'll see and enjoy the replay.

legaleagle92481
08-04-2010, 02:51 PM
how about putting all these guys in the book with a big * next to their name. Not sure how many homers he hit with the rangers, but those should be stripped from his career stats.

I disagree. If you do that. Do you give Ruth an * because he faced the same pitchers time and again and again, did not have to play against black, Asian or Spainish players or travel cross country or not count his homers. Aaron and Mays admitted to using greenies, aka Amphetamines, aka a PED, do we * them or take away some of their homers. How do we know for sure Griffey and Thome were clean everyday of their careers? Something can be said about every player so when you start with * and striping homers where do you start and stop? Most of the homers ARod and co. hit came off pitchers just as juiced as they were.

trsent
08-04-2010, 03:31 PM
I disagree. If you do that. Do you give Ruth an * because he faced the same pitchers time and again and again, did not have to play against black, Asian or Spainish players or travel cross country or not count his homers. Aaron and Mays admitted to using greenies, aka Amphetamines, aka a PED, do we * them or take away some of their homers. How do we know for sure Griffey and Thome were clean everyday of their careers? Something can be said about every player so when you start with * and striping homers where do you start and stop? Most of the homers ARod and co. hit came off pitchers just as juiced as they were.

Amen, Brother.

Enough of the games of who got caught and who didn't. Which players had 10 total career home runs and didn't get caught, or if they are caught, should we edit the record books for them also?

It was a bad era for baseball, but whatever drugs these guys took was part of the game and part of the era and the sport has to move forward. Those who view issues with people who were "caught" forget about the sport that turned their head to the issues and allowed the abuse to continue.

Why people obsess over this topic is beyond me. When Mac and Jose came into the league, we all joked about them juicing. It wasn't a major issue, it was not considered illegal, baseball knew it was going on and didn't investigate because they hoped it would become legal.

Let's enjoy the day and not have so much hate in this country.

Fnazxc0114
08-04-2010, 04:02 PM
theres no hate, just cotempt for a guy that is a cheater. I own stuff of guys who used, and it doesnt affect my habits. It was fun to watch them while they played, but you cant overlook the fact that they cheated.

Fnazxc0114
08-04-2010, 04:08 PM
also to add to it, his steroid use wont keep me from some day buying a rangers g/u bat. But, you cant talk about his accomplishments without talking about his steroid use. Its the same with all the other guys who have been caught.

ahuff
08-04-2010, 04:09 PM
theres no hate, just cotempt for a guy that is a cheater. I own stuff of guys who used, and it doesnt affect my habits. It was fun to watch them while they played, but you cant overlook the fact that they cheated.

Amen!!! I was just logging in to say about the same thing. Nobody said "hate". Where in the world did you take that leap? Just because we don't agree doesn't mean we "hate" anyone. I just could care less, honestly, and that is far from hate.

ahuff
08-04-2010, 04:16 PM
I forgot to add....


I think the strongest words used were contempt and cheater. They may be harsh words, but they are the truth. Contempt simply means "lack of respect" and cheater is "someone who leads you to believe something that is not true".

Alex did cheat and he admitted it. His admission doesn't take the misdeeds away. It simply acknowledges them and we all try our best to move on. Fnazxc0114 has lost respect for him, as many of us have.

Again, where is the hate?

trsent
08-04-2010, 06:37 PM
Sorry, all I see in the discussions as "hate" because players used drugs that the sport basically allowed and overlooked for many years. You can feel it is "contempt", I just read it to be "hate".

Is that all that can be countered for my arguments?

There are quite a few issues here, and for everyone who wants to punish those who have been caught or those who were honest and admitted their use, I say hogwash - Those who were not caught are still out there and may never be caught.

Just like punishing Roger Maris is 1961 for getting to play some extra games as society did back then, or those who felt Hank Aaron's skin color didn't make his record just - This era was bad for baseball, but move on and stop worrying about it. The records will stand, and some people will complain about it but life will go on and unless Major League Baseball punishes themselves for allowing this era to continue for years after the found out about the abuses, then nothing will happen.

I asked The Chicago White Sox to refund me for tickets from 1994 when they canceled the season. My argument was that even though I went to the games in 1994, since there was no post season there was no reason I should have wasted my time going to games when the promise of playing for the chance to play in the post season was taken from me.

They told me sorry, have a nice day.

This is how we should look at the Steroid era of baseball. Move on, enjoy the games or find a better sport to watch (hockey?). Complaining about it every time someone hits a milestone is just old now. The whole sport was using these drugs for a 15-20 year period. Everyone knew it was going on from the fans to upper management to the US Government. No one did anything about it until they realized these drugs have bad long term effects.

If they were healthy to use, athletes would still be using them today and they would be legalized.

Go figure!

cjw
08-04-2010, 06:44 PM
Move on, enjoy the games or find a better sport to watch (hockey?).

While I don't agree with the assumption that hockey might be a better sport to watch than baseball (despite being a Canadian..sacrilegous, I know) I agree with the above.

MLB Baseball, like the movie industry of Hollywood is an entertainment business...pure and simple.

Home runs like CGI-generated tsunamis are entertainment. Enjoy them or spend your money elsewhere.

Fnazxc0114
08-04-2010, 06:58 PM
trsent do you view arod as a victim?

ahuff
08-04-2010, 09:41 PM
Sorry, all I see in the discussions as "hate" because players used drugs that the sport basically allowed and overlooked for many years. You can feel it is "contempt", I just read it to be "hate".

Is that all that can be countered for my arguments?

There are quite a few issues here, and for everyone who wants to punish those who have been caught or those who were honest and admitted their use, I say hogwash - Those who were not caught are still out there and may never be caught.

Just like punishing Roger Maris is 1961 for getting to play some extra games as society did back then, or those who felt Hank Aaron's skin color didn't make his record just - This era was bad for baseball, but move on and stop worrying about it. The records will stand, and some people will complain about it but life will go on and unless Major League Baseball punishes themselves for allowing this era to continue for years after the found out about the abuses, then nothing will happen.

I asked The Chicago White Sox to refund me for tickets from 1994 when they canceled the season. My argument was that even though I went to the games in 1994, since there was no post season there was no reason I should have wasted my time going to games when the promise of playing for the chance to play in the post season was taken from me.

They told me sorry, have a nice day.

This is how we should look at the Steroid era of baseball. Move on, enjoy the games or find a better sport to watch (hockey?). Complaining about it every time someone hits a milestone is just old now. The whole sport was using these drugs for a 15-20 year period. Everyone knew it was going on from the fans to upper management to the US Government. No one did anything about it until they realized these drugs have bad long term effects.

If they were healthy to use, athletes would still be using them today and they would be legalized.

Go figure!

Just because you "feel" something doesn't mean that is what a writer implied. Take the people at what they say, period. Be like Fnazxc0114 and if you don't know what was implied than ask. Perhaps I'm missing something here, but I think you are adding "intent/hate" to people's comments, and that is just flat out wrong! Is that a correct statement?

This has become a very bizarre rant. I'm checking out of it. Bizarre and crazy indeed.

sox83cubs84
08-04-2010, 10:16 PM
"An A-Bomb....from A-Rod!":p

Dave Miedema

joelsabi
08-04-2010, 10:45 PM
Also...it was 3 years ago today that he clubbed #500!

Dave Miedema

Interesting fact.

I think ARods odds are better that he hits #700 into the net over the centerfield wall than him hitting #700 on 8/4/2013. As you all know, #600 was retrieved by the security guard.

The Yankees were prepared to offer the lucky fan who caught the baseball a signed hat, baseball, jersey and bat from ARod and if that wasn't enough, they were prepared to offer a chance to go to lunch with ARod and girlfriend Cameron Diaz. Instead, the security guard retreives the ball, gives it to his supervisor, who gives it to ARod. What does the security guard get for his good deed -- a signed bat, a little less than if it was caught by a fan in the stands and far less than if he had kept it and put it up for auction.

So instead of having a college fund for his daughter, the security guard can tell his daughter that he caught ARod's 600 HR. Can a security guard get fired for not giving up the baseball?

JasonM33
08-04-2010, 10:57 PM
These numbers don't mean anything to most baseball fans. A-Roid could hit 900 home runs and I would yawn and change the channel. I grew up watching the steroid era. Most of my favorite players were using steroids but I'm still able to be honest about the situation. This isn't the old days when these records mattered. The mystique is gone. It's all tainted. It's over. There is no way to pretend that this isn't so. I don't hate Arod. To me, he is a fraud.

cliffjmp33
08-04-2010, 10:59 PM
A lot of places use CSC and they have a solid reputation, so I would think that they would hold their employees to a high standard. I'm sure they met ahead of time and said this could happen, and such and laid out that they can't keep it, especially if the ball landed in a private area. If the security guy doesn't retrieve it, and only Yankee personel have access, the ball gets back to A-ROD that way.

Was a nice gesture though that the security guard did get a bat and all. I'd like to hope that was A-Rod's idea, but who knows?

nationals2k9
08-04-2010, 11:04 PM
My take is, if the voters decide to be selective and ignore the supposed users for the next 5-10-20 years, there will barely be anyone who gets in and the concept of the HOF is changed forever. Can anyone say with 100% certainty that a guy like Pujols has always been 100% clean? I know I cannot! And not to start a fight, but even a gamer like Jeter may have used once upon a time for all we know. He's played on teams with A-Rod, Clemens, Pettitte, Giambi, etc. I'm not accusing or suggesting... just opening up the conversation. Unless you are Albert Pujols or Derek Jeter you technically have no idea.

I just think it's unfortunate that some guys many of us loved for quite a long time (McGwire, Sosa, Bonds... even my guy Manny) are unfarily tainted because they were "caught" in a highly public fashion. As if they were assumed to be witches and brought to the town square to be burned or hanged. I can't help but think Pujols, Cabrera, etc are the ones hiding under the beds hoping not be found and dragged out as well (an odd late night scenario, I know). And then there's the argument that some of these guys didn't own up to their mistakes as we would have preferred. But they're not public speakers, they're baseball players from all over the world.

I'll be done.

legaleagle92481
08-04-2010, 11:37 PM
Interesting fact.

I think ARods odds are better that he hits #700 into the net over the centerfield wall than him hitting #700 on 8/4/2013. As you all know, #600 was retrieved by the security guard.

The Yankees were prepared to offer the lucky fan who caught the baseball a signed hat, baseball, jersey and bat from ARod and if that wasn't enough, they were prepared to offer a chance to go to lunch with ARod and girlfriend Cameron Diaz. Instead, the security guard retreives the ball, gives it to his supervisor, who gives it to ARod. What does the security guard get for his good deed -- a signed bat, a little less than if it was caught by a fan in the stands and far less than if he had kept it and put it up for auction.

So instead of having a college fund for his daughter, the security guard can tell his daughter that he caught ARod's 600 HR. Can a security guard get fired for not giving up the baseball?

not only can he not keep it yanks could sue for it back and win. the ball was obtained in the course of his performing his job so its the yanks ball especially if it was hit into a private area where he would not have had access to but for his job.

Fnazxc0114
08-04-2010, 11:37 PM
sammy sosa bought the bullpen catcher a new cadillac for his 600th home run ball. Doubt arod has the class to do anything that nice, but i could be wrong.

legaleagle92481
08-04-2010, 11:39 PM
sammy sosa bought the bullpen catcher a new cadillac for his 600th home run ball. Doubt arod has the class to do anything that nice, but i could be wrong.

arod is a better guy than he gets credit for. a few years ago in boston he rescued a kid from getting hit by a car and in process risked great bodily harm to himself.

sox83cubs84
08-05-2010, 07:18 PM
not only can he not keep it yanks could sue for it back and win. the ball was obtained in the course of his performing his job so its the yanks ball especially if it was hit into a private area where he would not have had access to but for his job.

Gotta go with you on this one, legaleagle. When Hank Aaron hit what turned out to be his last career MLB home runt, the ball bounced out of the sparsely populated bleachers and back onto the field. The groundskeeper who retrieved it kept it, and didn't give it back to the Brewers (he wanted to give it to Aaron personally). In response, Brewers management fired him AND docked $5 from his final paycheck for the cost of the ball!:eek:

Dave Miedema

joelsabi
08-06-2010, 12:00 AM
not only can he not keep it yanks could sue for it back and win. the ball was obtained in the course of his performing his job so its the yanks ball especially if it was hit into a private area where he would not have had access to but for his job.

I was reading an old post on intentional abandonment of the baseball once it goes into the stands. So if the baseball goes anywhere else, such as the bullpen or in this case Monument Park. If it goes into the bullpen, its not property of the catcher or pitcher who got the ball.

Just some hypothetical scenarios i was curious about. If anyone has an opinion, please share.

A) say the security guard retrieves the baseball in Monument Park and tosses the baseball into the stands, who would own the baseball?

B) say the baseball goes into the net in Monument Park but it is close enough for Kyle, who is in the stands, to use a contraption to scoop up the baseball before the Security can get to it, who would own the baseball?

C) say a fan tosses the baseball back onto the field where the right fielder retrieves it, who owns the baseball?

D) if a security guard catches it in the stands, who owns the baseball?

legaleagle92481
08-06-2010, 01:07 AM
I was reading an old post on intentional abandonment of the baseball once it goes into the stands. So if the baseball goes anywhere else, such as the bullpen or in this case Monument Park. If it goes into the bullpen, its not property of the catcher or pitcher who got the ball.

Just some hypothetical scenarios i was curious about. If anyone has an opinion, please share.

A) say the security guard retrieves the baseball in Monument Park and tosses the baseball into the stands, who would own the baseball?

B) say the baseball goes into the net in Monument Park but it is close enough for Kyle, who is in the stands, to use a contraption to scoop up the baseball before the Security can get to it, who would own the baseball?

C) say a fan tosses the baseball back onto the field where the right fielder retrieves it, who owns the baseball?

D) if a security guard catches it in the stands, who owns the baseball?

A) Fan has to give it back it was not the secruity guard's property so he cannot abandon it.

B) Fan can't keep it the ball was in an area not open to fans to get it the fan tresspassed even though he used a contraption.

C) Fan owned it by throwing it back abandoned it. Right fielder has to give it to the team, since it was caught in the course of performing his job.

D) Again caught while performing his job, can't keep it.

lowell25
08-06-2010, 08:43 AM
DON'T YOU MEAN A- ROD HIT 446? THAT'S MY COUNT.:mad:

cjclong
08-06-2010, 08:56 AM
Nationals 2K9, Since no one follows every player around 24/7 I guess we can never "know" any player didn't use steroids in the same way we can't "know" our friends and spouses aren't murders or trial molesters. When there is no evidence our friends are criminals we don't sit around wondering if maybe they are. Why not take the attitude players are innocent unless proved guilty. And while you SAY you are not accusing anyone of using drugs you then talk about Pujols "hiding under the bed "afraid of being discovered using drugs which is of course making an accusation he is drug user, if not directly then by innuendo. (And actually its pretty direct.)

yankees506
08-06-2010, 11:05 AM
I was at every game after 599 at the stadium and in left field they would not allow people to walk down the isles of the sections durring alex's AB's it was crazy. I cant believe all arod gave the security guard was a signed bat. I thought he would have at least gotten the bat he used for the hr as most players would rather have the ball. But just a normal signed bat? wow alex thats a new low. I mean his 500th sold for 100k + and all he got was a crummy bat? Heres the real kicker, HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE BEFORE 13ALEXRODRIGUEZ ON EBAY HAS THE BALL AND BAT FOR SALE? :o not long.

joelsabi
08-06-2010, 11:34 AM
I was at every game after 599 at the stadium and in left field they would not allow people to walk down the isles of the sections durring alex's AB's it was crazy. I cant believe all arod gave the security guard was a signed bat. I thought he would have at least gotten the bat he used for the hr as most players would rather have the ball. But just a normal signed bat? wow alex thats a new low. I mean his 500th sold for 100k + and all he got was a crummy bat? Heres the real kicker, HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE BEFORE 13ALEXRODRIGUEZ ON EBAY HAS THE BALL AND BAT FOR SALE? :o not long.

The autographed bat is still linked to the 600 HR event so its not the same as all other autographed non game used bats. It has a great story. I was reading that Steiner said that the bat would have a value of $5000 but who knows really. Remember the last legitimate ARod HR bats sold on the open market were from the 2008 season. Nothing from 2009 or 2010. I hope Alex Rodriguez just keeps the bat and the baseball for himself.

When is the last time any players gave up his HR bat for the homerun baseball? :) Bummer as legaleagle92481 argues, there's no situation where an employed security guard can keep the baseball. What should happen is that Yankee policy should say something about getting some type of reward while retreiving the baseball while on duty. Hmmm. So if he was on a scheduled smoke break and so happened the baseball is caught by him, not in the net or nothing, would he be allowed to keep the baseball?

both-teams-played-hard
08-06-2010, 12:11 PM
What is a Yankee security guard's annual salary? Jobs are scarce these days, but making a grown man with frosted tips get teary eyed is priceless.

joelsabi
08-06-2010, 12:19 PM
What is a Yankee security guard's annual salary? Jobs are scarce these days, but making a grown man with frosted tips get teary eyed is priceless.

what are frosted tips?

eisenreich8
08-06-2010, 12:24 PM
What is a Yankee security guard's annual salary? Jobs are scarce these days, but making a grown man with frosted tips get teary eyed is priceless.


LMAO!!!!!!!

cjclong
08-06-2010, 12:25 PM
If ARod had given the worker whose job it was to return the ball to him nothing he would be criticized. When he gives him an autographed bat he gets criticized. And if he had given him a car some one would complain it wasn't a better one. What did Aaron give the player on his team in the bullpen who caught his 715th home run ball? I bet he didn't give his team mate anything special and yet he doesn't get criticized. And I have never heard of a player giving the bat that hit a milestonne home run to the fan who got the ball. As I remember ARod did not sell his 500 home run bat. I be he either keeps the bat and ball for himself or they wind up in the HOF.

legaleagle92481
08-07-2010, 04:12 PM
My two cents is an unused bat is too little. Yes the guy had no right to the ball but he could have snuck it out the stadium and blackmarket sold it. He could have told them he could not find it. He vwas honest. He deserves a signed gu jersey. Not from the 600 game but from another game and dinner with him and cameron in new york city. a signed bat is not much of a thought but a car is a bit much. my idea wouldnt really have cost arod much and it would have given the guy an experience to treasure for life and an item he could make a few bucks off of if he so chose.

cjclong
08-09-2010, 10:01 AM
I don't know about rewarding the guy for not committing a criminal offense. Taking the ball would have been theft and depending on what the value of the ball was found to be could be a felony in most states. And remember, this was one of the most watched home runs ever. The guy would almost certainly have turned up on video tape. The chances of stealing the ball were not going to be great once it got in the monument area. Should he have given him something else? Did the guy really want anything else? The worker said he more of a Jeter fan.

legaleagle92481
09-25-2010, 01:06 AM
As a followup the NY press reports that the guard who caught the ball was given a $10,000 bonus by his employer.