Washing Jerseys

[Dalkiel]

I'm a Game Used novice, and I was wondering if there is any reason not to wash lightly game used or player issued jerseys?

[CampWest]

Re: Washing Jerseys

I'm a Game Used novice, and I was wondering if there is any reason not to wash lightly game used or player issued jerseys?

I personally STRONGLY prefer not altering items post use - adding an autograph being the exception. I want the items as close to when it left the players hands as possible. Also, dirt, pine tar, ball marks, etc can all aid in authenticating an item as genuine (EVIDENCE OF USE is paramount in game used collecting) and if you are lucky that evidence can greatly aid in finding indisputable photo matches.

I would not wash any item I have as a collectible. If I bought a $40 game used jersey to wear, then that could be washed, but not as a collectible.

if there is an unbearable stench that needs to be addressed, try febreze or something that can eliminate odors without altering the appearance and eliminating evidence of use.

[AWA85]

Re: Washing Jerseys

One issue with multiple washings is that it could present more of a look of use on it. Puckering/fading/loose threads all could develop.

[Dalkiel]

Re: Washing Jerseys

Here's why I ask, I sold a jersey to someone and when they received it they washed it. After they washed it they decided they didn't want it and want to return it.

[CampWest]

Re: Washing Jerseys

Here's why I ask, I sold a jersey to someone and when they received it they washed it. After they washed it they decided they didn't want it and want to return it.

Sounds to me like you have a good case to refuse the return because the item has been altered by the other party from the state in which it was delivered and you could be unfairly penalized by their alterations. Just like if they spilled chocolate all over it and stained it - you should not have to take it back.

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Washing Jerseys

Here's why I ask, I sold a jersey to someone and when they received it they washed it. After they washed it they decided they didn't want it and want to return it.

Not the whole story - I bought the jersey and when I received it, I started to research the jersey. I noticed a very important aspect that was missing from the jersey I just received. In checking Getty Images, if one were to look closely at the image, it shows the collar of his Pro Bowl jersey was ripped and/or torn - the jersey I received did NOT have a rip nor was it repaired. I immediately contacted the Seller via email and voiced my concerns about the jersey - the smell was also addressed.

The Seller responded by saying, [I]"Yes, that's the picture that I've seen. I'm not sure what to say about the rip, but the patches seemed to match up [/I]perfectly when I compared them." He did NOT say anything about me NOT washing the jersey.

So, what is the real concern about the jersey? Is it the fact that the jersey does NOT match up to the scan or that I washed the jersey?

To be fair, I have attached a scan of Chris Warren wearing a 1995 Pro Bowl jersey and a scan of the jersey that was sent to me. In the Getty game scan, on Warren's right shoulder (left side of the scan) it can clearly be seen that the collar is ripped and/or torn. The jersey that was sent by had NO repair and/or tear so I sent the jersey back. After the jersey was sent back, then the seller decided to question as to whether or not I can return the jersey.

In closing, after the jersey was washed, the only thing that changed on the jersey was the smell - none of the glue residue was washed off or the jersey altered in any way.

All forum members thoughts are welcomed.

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[Dalkiel]

Re: Washing Jerseys

Actually, that sequence of events is not accurate. You first emailed me telling me you washed the jersey because it smelled bad (I never noticed this odor). THEN you emailed me and told me that you don't see the "rip" in the Getty photo on the jersey itself. I'm not convinced that it's a rip, but I concede I could be wrong. The patches seem to match up correctly, and Warren actually tried to buy these jerseys back from me, though that's nothing conclussive. That said, you WASHED the jersey without running it by me first and then decided you did not want to purchase it.

I'm not convinced that what you see is a rip on the Getty image, and the picture of the jersey you furnished really doesn't show anything that could help the case either way. None of this changes the fact that you washed the jersey without my permission.

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Washing Jerseys

David,

Today, your received this email at 0944 hours:

David,

I picked up the Warren jersey and so far, it looks OK. It was a tad "stanky" but that's understandable. I threw it in the washer and hopefully not too much of the glue remnants will come off. I kind of like the idea that the remnants are still on the jersey since Warren thought enough of the jersey to have it framed and displayed in his home. I'll let it air dry so if some of the remnants do come off in the wash, the drier won't take off any remaining remnants.

I'll probably post it on the forum as a "August Pickup". Thanx again and take care
__________________________________________________ _____________
Today, you received this email at 10:34

David,

Good news and bad news. The jersey washed well and none of the glue residue came off. The bad news is, I have attached a close-up scan of Warren wearing his Pro Bowl jersey. Over his right shoulder, you can clearly see that the collar is ripped and/or torn because a piece is sticking up. I believe its a tear because the back of the collar is lying flat. If it were a pull, the back of the collar would not be lying flat.

On the jersey you sent me, there isn't any tear on the collar - your thoughts?

Jim

PS: I'll continue my search
__________________________________________________ _______________
Today, at 11:51 you responded with this email


Jim,

Yes, that's the picture that I've seen. I'm not sure what to say about the rip, but the patches seemed to match up perfectly when I compared them.

David
__________________________________________________ _______________
Today, at 1247, you sent me this email:

While I'm not convinced that there is a tear on the jersey in the picture, feel free to return it.

David Herrell
(Address edited) Apt C
Harrisonburg, VA 22801


Shall I continue? I saved every email we exchanged both on the purchase and the emails I sent you today. Let's see how forum members respond to our threads. Again, what is the issue? The fact that the jersey does NOT match the image in Getty or that I washed the jersey?

Jim

[Dalkiel]

Re: Washing Jerseys

No, those are the emails. Thanks for posting them. As you can see you washed the jersey prior to your realization.

My issue is that you may have, in some way, devalued the jersey by washing it (as indicated by the respondants here). I'm not sure why that's so incredibly difficult to understand.

The "rip" you see is arguable in my opinion, as it doesn't appear to be a rip to me. Nevertheless, if that was the only issue with this transaction I would gladly accept the jersey and give you a refund. Unfortunately that isn't the case.

As I've stated over and over again, I'm not a game used equipment expert. When you told me you washed the jersey, though I thought it was odd, I figured it was a typical practice for game used collectors. However, after thinking about it, I just couldn't wrap my head around washing a game used item so I posted here to ask other experienced collectors how this practice is perceived. And, as you can see, the opinons thus far have been negative.

Regards

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Washing Jerseys

No, those are the emails. Thanks for posting them. As you can see you washed the jersey prior to your realization.

My issue is that you may have, in some way, devalued the jersey by washing it (as indicated by the respondants here). I'm not sure why that's so incredibly difficult to understand.

The "rip" you see is arguable in my opinion, as it doesn't appear to be a rip to me. Nevertheless, if that was the only issue with this transaction I would gladly accept the jersey and give you a refund. Unfortunately that isn't the case.

As I've stated over and over again, I'm not a game used equipment expert. When you told me you washed the jersey, though I thought it was odd, I figured it was a typical practice for game used collectors. However, after thinking about it, I just couldn't wrap my head around washing a game used item so I posted here to ask other experienced collectors how this practice is perceived. And, as you can see, the opinons thus far have been negative.

Regards

The initial comments that were made by forum members were made before they knew the entire situation. It will be interesting to see their comments now that they know the entire situation. Spinning the situation in another direction (washing vs not washing) does NOT change the fact that the jersey does NOT match the jersey worn by Warner during the 1995 Pro Bowl.

So there you have it - lets give the forum members some space to add their comments.

Jim

[Dalkiel]

Re: Washing Jerseys

I completely agree on wanting to hear other opinions.

Further, IF for some reason it isn't the same jersey (which I think it is) it's at the very least player issued, and you still washed it without my permission.

[otismalibu]

Re: Washing Jerseys

Not the whole story - I bought the jersey and when I received it, I started to research the jersey.

It's best to do your research BEFORE the purchase. What if you started researching it 3 months after the purchase? Should you still be able to send it back?

Guess that might depend on how exactly it was sold.

Was it sold as game used or game issued? Any photomatch claims?

If there's even the smallest chance you might want to send it back for a refund (assuming that's an option the seller is giving you), then you can't wash it or make any other alterations to it, IMO.

[Dalkiel]

Re: Washing Jerseys

Thanks for your input.

I offered the jersey for sale believing it to be game used. The buyer said he'd like to buy it as long as I gave him 10 days to research the jersey after he received it. I told him no problem.

He received the jersey today and immediately washed it. Then he started researching, and because of a small "lift" on the collar of the jersey decided he didn't want it. I still contend the item is likely game used.

It's best to do your research BEFORE the purchase. What if you started researching it 3 months after the purchase? Should you still be able to send it back?

Guess that might depend on how exactly it was sold.

Was it sold as game used or game issued? Any photomatch claims?

If there's even the smallest chance you might want to send it back for a refund (assuming that's an option the seller is giving you), then you can't wash it or make any other alterations to it, IMO.

[otismalibu]

Re: Washing Jerseys

I offered the jersey for sale believing it to be game used. The buyer said he'd like to buy it as long as I gave him 10 days to research the jersey after he received it. I told him no problem.

He received the jersey today and immediately washed it. Then he started researching, and because of a small "lift" on the collar of the jersey decided he didn't want it. I still contend the item is likely game used.

Gotcha.

I still wouldn't have washed it, until there was no chance it was going back. A guy once test drove my minty 4x4 and took his wife to A&W and ate in my truck. WTF dude? You can drop fries under the seat when it yours - no sooner.

But if that really is damage in the Getty pic, then he most likely just washed a game issued item, right?

[BU54CB]

Re: Washing Jerseys

Here's my .02 for what its worth.

In my opinon, I can't tell if the portion of the collar is a rip or is just pushed up by something or streched for some reason. I don't see any jagged edges etc. that would definitively indicate its a rip or tear. Is the material stretched abnormally at the point where it looks like its torn in the photo?

As far as washing the jersey, I feel you should have examined it for the photomatching before throwing it in the washer. Other than the smell and the unwashed vs. washed preference of some buyers, the jersey's condition hasn't changed.

It doesn't appear either party has done anything egregious on either end, I'd say return the jersey for a refund, if anything, send a few $$ or some other compensation the sellers way for washing the jersey.