Clemens to be indicted

[cjclong]

A news flash just said that Roger Clemens is about to be indicted by a grand jury for making false statements to Congress about his use of performance enhancing drugs

[schubert1970]

I only have two words...."FREE BARRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[suave1477]

Roger Clemens charged with perjury in steroid case

29 minutes ago






{WASHINGTON (AP)—A federal grand jury on Thursday indicted seven-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens for allegedly lying to Congress about using steroids.
Clemens faces charges of obstruction of Congress, making false statements and perjury.
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The former Major League baseball pitcher and his former trainer, Brian McNamee, testified under oath at a 2008 hearing before a House committee and contradicted each other about whether Clemens had used the banned substances.
McNamee has told federal agents, baseball investigator George Mitchell and the committee that he injected Clemens more than a dozen times with steroids and human growth hormone from 1998 to 2001.
Clemens has maintained that McNamee was lying.
Clemens’ attorney, Rusty Hardin, said by telephone from Houston that he had just learned of the indictment and would wait to decide whether to comment.
The case was assigned to U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton, the judge who presided over the perjury and obstruction trial of Vice President Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff, I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby. No date has been set for Clemens’ initial court appearance.
In a defiant appearance before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee in 2008, Clemens said, “I’ve been accused of something I’m not guilty of … I have never taken steroids or HGH.”
Longtime Clemens friend and pitching star Andy Pettite told congressional investigators that Clemens confided to him that he had used human growth hormone. Clemens said Pettite’s assertion wasn’t correct.
“I believe Andy has misheard” the conversation, Clemens responded. He said he had simply mentioned to Pettite a TV show about three older men who used HGH to get back their quality of life.

[bscott]

Serves him right.

Clemens went out of his way to lie and wag his finger at Congress.

Hubris and an over-inflated ego did him in.

HOF chances for Roger: practically zero.

It doesn't take a brainiac to do the math: look at Mcnamee's testimony and Clemens' stats from 1998 when he went from a so-so aging pitcher in the first half of the season to an unhittable "rocket" the second half. The rocket was propelled by rocket juice. Oh boy.

Clemens will always have a seat at the poker table with Sosa, Palmeiro, etc., but that's about it. Put a fork in his legacy.

-bscott.

[Fnazxc0114]

The can take their seat next to Arod and Manny.

[Mark17]

Can someone explain this to me? Is using steroids illegal? If so, was Clemens ever formally charged and tried?

If not, why was he testifying in front of Congress?

Can Congress subpoena me to testify regarding how many cans of Dr. Pepper I drink in the average week, and then, if it turns out I wasn't truthful, can they indict me?

[bscott]

He's not being indicted for doing steroids. He's being charged with lying to Congress about it.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-clemens-perjury-20100820,0,289897.story

-bscott

[33bird]

Good.

[trsent]

Congress has a lot of money to spend worry about Roger Clemens.

Isn't there something more important they should spend their time and money on? It costs a fortune to live in this "Free" country and then they pick on people with audits and stuff like this Roger Clemens situation.

Don't the people have any say here anymore?

[Mark17]

He's not being indicted for doing steroids. He's being charged with lying to Congress about it.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-clemens-perjury-20100820,0,289897.story

-bscott

That's my point. So, where's the REAL crime? Lying about something while testifying about something that didn't involve a crime in the first place.....

Isn't this what the term "entrapment" refers to? They use the power of the government to drag him up there, they put him on the spot, where he's going to be humiliated publicly no matter what he says, and then they manufacture THAT into a crime.

Not liking Clemens or what he did doesn't mean it's okay for Congress to do this to him. Frankly, it's abuse of power. They could call any of us up there to testify regarding something embarrassing in our past, and we either publicly 'fess up, or we get indicted.

I'm not a Clemens fan but this government is starting to scare me.

[slambam]

HOF chances for Roger: practically zero.


Speaking of that, here's an interesting read...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AsUNFMbIIIPyjcOAcDYrlSIRvLYF?slug=tsn-166032

It is sad to see practically a decade of baseball wiped out by steroids. It really gets me thinking, we've obviously seen many HOF calibur players the past 10-15 years, but a lot of them have the PED controversy hanging over their head. So how many guys from the last 10-15 years will get in? It'll just be odd to see names in the record books, but yet not in Cooperstown. Don't get me wrong, I'm OK with leaving out the PED users - as long as all of them are held to the same standard. If Bonds, or Clemens, or A-Rod, or Big Mac (the list goes on) get in, they all should.

[slambam]

They use the power of the government to drag him up there, they put him on the spot, where he's going to be humiliated publicly no matter what he says, and then they manufacture THAT into a crime.

Yea, the baseball public sure went crazy when Pettite admitted his PED use. :rolleyes: If Clemens was smart, he would have done the same. Personally, I disagree with their PED use, but I have a ton of respect for Pettite by standing up like a man and admitting what he did. Unlike Bonds, Clemens, Palmerio, etc...

[kellsox]

Apparently Clemens brought this upon himself in several ways...

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/19/clemens-insisted-on-hearing-that-led-to-indictment.html

[Mark17]

Yea, the baseball public sure went crazy when Pettite admitted his PED use. :rolleyes: If Clemens was smart, he would have done the same. Personally, I disagree with their PED use, but I have a ton of respect for Pettite by standing up like a man and admitting what he did. Unlike Bonds, Clemens, Palmerio, etc...

How can you respect Pettite for using PEDs? As far as admitting it, he was paying attention to what was happening to the other guys and made a calculated decision to admit it. I have more respect for the lawyer(s) advising him to confess than I do for him.

Pettite's strategy was better than Clemens', that's all.

[legaleagle92481]

As a great judge once said (I forget exactely who) you could indict a ham sandwich. As a veteran attorney I can tell you an indictment means nada. In front of the grand jury the defense cannot even present evidence or cross examine the prosecution's witnesses. The standard to indict is much lower than the standard to convict. To convict you need to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt, which means no doubt for which you can give a reason. The government wastes our tax dollars on a case like this because it is a feather in the cap to those who bring the case. And if he goes to trial he probably walks he has enough fans left that he should be able to find at least one juror who will not vote to convict him and it will end in a hung jury every time they try the case until they give up.

[cohibasmoker]

That's my point. So, where's the REAL crime? Lying about something while testifying about something that didn't involve a crime in the first place.....

Isn't this what the term "entrapment" refers to? They use the power of the government to drag him up there, they put him on the spot, where he's going to be humiliated publicly no matter what he says, and then they manufacture THAT into a crime.

Not liking Clemens or what he did doesn't mean it's okay for Congress to do this to him. Frankly, it's abuse of power. They could call any of us up there to testify regarding something embarrassing in our past, and we either publicly 'fess up, or we get indicted.

I'm not a Clemens fan but this government is starting to scare me.

Lying to Congress - now that's a joke in and by itself. trsent - Do we have a say? People are screaming but NO-ONE is listening. Instead, they are telling us what's best for us so just sit back, work hard, pay your taxes and Congress will dictate to you what's best for you.

But hey, America wanted "Change" and I'd say - we got it.

[slambam]

How can you respect Pettite for using PEDs? As far as admitting it, he was paying attention to what was happening to the other guys and made a calculated decision to admit it. I have more respect for the lawyer(s) advising him to confess than I do for him.

Pettite's strategy was better than Clemens', that's all.

I never said I respected his use of PEDs. I said I respect the fact that he's the only athlete (that I can recall at least) who never denied it once his name came out. He didn't pull a Bonds or Clemens and deny everything, he didn't pull a Big Mac or A-Rod and deny it before admitting it, instead he stepped up and admitted it. People make mistakes, and at least he came out and told the truth. And sure it's a waste of tax dollars, but I think most of our tax dollars go to waste anyway.

[legaleagle92481]

I never said I respected his use of PEDs. I said I respect the fact that he's the only athlete (that I can recall at least) who never denied it once his name came out. He didn't pull a Bonds or Clemens and deny everything, he didn't pull a Big Mac or A-Rod and deny it before admitting it, instead he stepped up and admitted it. People make mistakes, and at least he came out and told the truth. And sure it's a waste of tax dollars, but I think most of our tax dollars go to waste anyway.

do you really think andy fully disclosed his use? and what he used? its called admit to something relatively minor so people dont dig and find out the major stuff. he and roger were workout buddies and close friends and his dad was involved in a ped case at a texas gym where incidentally one of andys pals was a trainer and also involved.

[Dach0sen0ne]

How long ago was Bonds indicted? He still hasn't gone to trial. This could go on for a looooooooonnnnngggggg time.

[cjclong]

When we are taking about Petitte and "PED's" lets be specific. Petitte admitted using HGH , not steroids, and that was to help him recover from an injury. I frankly don't understand why we ban anything for an athlete recovering from an inury. If we complain about it being artificial, why don't we ban Tommy John surgery. That is the most "artifical" thing possible, takng a body part out of your leg and putting it in your arrm. To me using sometning to help recovery from an injury , even if someone used sterodis, is different form using drugs to enhance performance. How is that different from surgery. As far as whether Pettite lied, he has a reputaiton as a truthful man. Apparently his Christain fath is imporant to him That isn't to say that he should be considered a truthful person because he claims to be a Christian. There are plenty of people who claim to be Christians who are obvious liars. But many people who do take their religions serosuly, whether they are Muslims, Hindus, Jewish, etc., take their truth telling obligation seriously. That is why we give the oath to tell the truth before testimony. Of course the oath won't stop a person who is deternined to lie from lying, but it does encourage those who take their religion seriously to tell the truth.

[bscott]

Apparently Clemens brought this upon himself in several ways...

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/19/clemens-insisted-on-hearing-that-led-to-indictment.html


This Newsweek article gives a brief overview of how the Congressional hearings came to be. Clemens actively sought the spotlight to defend his past.

Clemens wanted very badly to testify to Congress on as they say, "live, National TV". What kind of person wants to go on TV and deliberately lie to the United States Congress? Nobody put a gun to his head here. He did it to himself. He thought he was above the game. He thought he would get away with it.

At least McGwire eventually came (somewhat) clean on his past.


For all the talk of Pete Rose being baseball's biggest Gambler, Roger Clemens certainly deserves an honorable mention in that category. For it was Roger Clemens who took the enormous gamble to fight his steroid allegations by denying and lying. That is basically his defense: Deny, deny, lie, lie. Roger betted on the public swooping in to support him. It was a bad bet.

It appears that Roger Clemens is about to lose the bet he made with the public, and with Congress.


The whole mess is quite a shame, for many reasons. In 2004, I saw firsthand a really nice thing Clemens did with his Charity Foundation: he bought an apartment for a single father and his son who was having severe medical issues. It didn't make a huge splash in the Houston papers, but Clemens really did buy the man an apartment, and he showed up to surprise the father and son with the gift, who were, as you may imagine, overjoyed with happiness.

Even baseball cheaters do nice things.

[rj_lucas]

Even baseball cheaters do nice things.

Unlike the cheaters in Congress, who contribute nothing of value other than bringing down these Dangerous Enemies of the State.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[Mark17]

Unlike the cheaters in Congress, who contribute nothing of value other than bringing down these Dangerous Enemies of the State.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

Rick,
Don't you understand? This guy LIED to the esteemed members of Congress!! Is there a worse crime than that?

I'm being sarcastic of course... Congress itself is one of the biggest collection of liars ever assebled.

[godwulf]

Addressing only the HOF question, let's not lose sight of who votes those so honored in: the sports writers. Are those guys likely to look the other way, and pretend that they never heard the confessions, the accusations, the rumors, when the time comes to vote on Bonds, Clemens, ARod, et al? I tend to believe that, as a group, they will not look the other way, and not even BB will find a home in the Hall. What you and I think or want to happen, ultimately, will not mean squat.

[earlywynnfan]

Addressing only the HOF question, let's not lose sight of who votes those so honored in: the sports writers. Are those guys likely to look the other way, and pretend that they never heard the confessions, the accusations, the rumors, when the time comes to vote on Bonds, Clemens, ARod, et al? I tend to believe that, as a group, they will not look the other way, and not even BB will find a home in the Hall. What you and I think or want to happen, ultimately, will not mean squat.

But aren't these the same sportswriters who looked the other way when McGwire went from beanpole to Mack truck? When Bonds' head grew a couple sizes? Where was all the handwringing over the "hallowed records of baseball's past" when Sosa and Mac were knocking down walls? When Clemens, showing the normal effects of age on his career, completely revived his career by "working harder"? (This from a man who worked out 20 hours a day already?)

I always wonder why BB writers get a free pass in this whole thing. They were there, in the locker rooms, and never said a word. Now, they bash anyone suspected and throw their morals around. Now they are voting (or not voting) for the same guys they raved about while they were active.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com