Babe Ruth Bats

[nesportspromotions]

OK, OK... I'm thinking of laying some serious dough out on these bats.

Are they REAL?

There are what look to be OLD seem & ball marks on the back and sides of the barrel.

I'm really nervous. HELP!

The provenace with these bats are that the come from the Babe's daughter as she removed them from the Hall of Fame in 1982.

There is another bat that I don't want and haven't photographed that is inscribed and signed by Dorothy Ruth Pirone, "In memory of my Dad - 1982"

Thanks Again!

This bat is 35 3/4 inches and 34.5 oz
http://www.sportsworld-usa.com/larry/ruth_1.jpg

http://www.sportsworld-usa.com/larry/ruth_2.jpg

http://www.sportsworld-usa.com/larry/ruth_3.jpg





This bat is 35 3/4 inches and 38.5 oz
http://www.sportsworld-usa.com/larry/ruth_another_1.jpg

http://www.sportsworld-usa.com/larry/ruth_another_2.jpg

http://www.sportsworld-usa.com/larry/ruth_another_3.jpg

[suave1477]

Ok im not a Ruth expert but im gonna take a shot in the dark on this one and maybe im about to look like a fool. but it seems a little too obvious on these.


ARE YOU KIDDING ME????????????

They show absolutely no use, and they look brand new like they were made yesterday and the wood shows no aging whatsoever.

Just my thought!!!

[bat_master]

Ok im not a Ruth expert but im gonna take a shot in the dark on this one and maybe im about to look like a fool. but it seems a little too obvious on these.


ARE YOU KIDDING ME????????????

They show absolutely no use, and they look brand new like they were made yesterday and the wood shows no aging whatsoever.

Just my thought!!!


Suave:
How can you make an assertion like that without seeing the hitting surface of each bat or without examining each bat in person? I would think that great hitters like Ruth, Williams, Mantle, etc would have large concentrations of stitch marks on the hitting surface, not over the labeling. Being a Ruth expert has nothing to do with this. This is simply a case of having seen some bats over the years.

For those readers that have had the pleasure of looking through the Smithsonian Baseball book by Stephen Wong there is a photo on page 69 that shows eight Ruth gamers side by side. While most of these bats do appear to show much more use (with assorted marks, dings, and scratches all over the barrel) that these shown here, I really don't think a true opinion can be formed without examining them in person.

As far as a bat aging I would expect that the storage conditions and any pre-storage precautions that were taken would have a lot to do with a bat's present visual condition. If these bats have been stored at the HOF since 1950 or before it would be conceivable that they would have aged quite well.

In my opinion, to disparage a bat without having specialized knowledge of either the player's bats or bats in general does a great disservice both to the buyer and the seller.

Tim Byington
t_byington@yahoo.com

[nesportspromotions]

There seems to be very light us on th BACK and SIDES of the barrel. (NOT viewable in the pics I took.)

[suave1477]

LIKE I SAID MY COMMENT WAS AN OPINION FROM THE PHOTOS SHOWN THATS ALL.

As far as bat aging well over time i agree with that but not matter what a bat still ages and by the looks of it the bat looks brand new and the finish on it looks like it crystal clean.

Again this is my opinion and im going by what I see in the photos.

[worldchamps]

I did a quick Google image search and here is the bat that Sotheby's (sp?) sold. To me this is what a bat of this age should/would look like. Those pictures look like a brand new one, in my opinion.

[suave1477]

I disagree in the Sotheby photos you can see the wood has aged and darkened over time.

The other photos of the Babe Ruth bat looks like the bat is clean and shiny as if it came right out of the factory

[flaco1801]

louisville slugger made replica bats in the 80s of ruth i know fer sure and others. they are exact duplicates of the originals. clemente was another replica made. this bat could be one of them be careful looks new

[trsent]

I am not a vintage bat expert and I have very little experience dealing with such items (and to think I have a bat on consignment with a major auction house right now that is pre-1970s that should fetch over $10,000.00) but I do know one thing:

A guy is thinking about buying some bats for a large amount of money. Any responses about his inquiry should come from people who have bought and sold and researched such an item in the past - Not people sitting around who like to get involved with any and every discussion on this forum. It may hurt the final sale or lack of a final sale because someone is making a view of an item that they have no experience with in the past.

I am going to assume (and you know what they say when you make an assumption) this is not my opinion only.

[b.heagy]

I have handled vintage game used bats. Not as many as others on this forum but I have a pretty good feel for items. I would not be comfortable buying these for serious money. Now albeit I am looking at a picture. From the photos this bat has a modern look to it. The wood looks too good, the stampings look fresh. Those bats with those particular markings would date from the 1921-1930 labeling period if I am not mistaken. Wait for Jim Caravello or Mike Specht to read this thread. Then you will have a better opinion of authenticity. I believe Ruth liked longer and and heavy bats. Like I said the right two men will read this thread and will be able to give you a much better judgement.

[worldchamps]

Nesportspromotions,

Please be sure when you ask the entire forum for help that you just ask for the self-titled experts.

I apologize that I tried to assist you. I thought a picture from a well know auction house would be of help to you.

Bill

[b.heagy]

Nesportspromotions,

Please be sure when you ask the entire forum for help that you just ask for the self-titled experts.

I apologize that I tried to assist you. I thought a picture from a well know auction house would be of help to you.

Bill

I think those pictures are great and are very helpful. Big steer in the right direction in my opinion. I appreciate you sharing what you found.

[BoneRubbedBat]

Neither one of these is a gamer. The first one only has Louisville in the top part of the centerbrand, and Kentucky in the lower portion. The 125 is of a different font than those from Ruth's days. These markings are not consistent with gamers from that era. The second one was produced post-1960. The font, size, and placement of the 125 in the centerbrand is consistent with the post-1960 era bats. The stamping itself on both bats is also consistent with the post-1960's.

[BoneRubbedBat]

........and yes, this is my area of "expertise." Let me know if anyone wants a "Rudy-style" presentation of explanatory photos and I can see what I can do.

[weimerskirch]

NESports,

Joel gives some great advice on going directly to experts who have strong acumen in the area of Babe Ruth bats. I did check the MEARS website as I am a member and they do have a photo of a Ruth bat from the 1934-44 era. The bat looks similar to the bat you have in question.

I do agree with some of the posters as this bat looks very fresh and not one that would come from the pre-war days.

Good Luck

Mark

[ghostkid]

Hi Ya'll,

I agree that these bats are more recent reproductions. The pictures provided by worldchamps are quite pertinent, as they show the oblong O in Co inside the H&B oval that was used by Louisville Slugger before World War II. Take a close look at the O and you will see what I mean. In the 1920's, this O was at least 3/4 the size of the preceding C. Beginning in the 1940's, the font size of the O became increasingly smaller, eventually becoming almost perfectly circular/square. Note that both of the bats in question have an O that is only half the size of the C and shaped like a square...clearly both of these bats are more recent reproductions (probably 1960's or 1970's). There are several other font problems too, but I think that's enough rambling for now.

Also, the info provided by Marcus Sevier is exactly correct...heck, the first bat pictured doesn't even have TRADE MARK REG US PAT OFF stamped below the center oval. At least the 2nd bat has a center brand that is consistent with 1920's H&B game used bats...making it closer to the real thing.

Hope this helps...

Kevin Kasper
kevinkasper@netzero.com

[MSpecht]

Hi-

Interesting thread.

First, to the original question, the forum got it right. These bats are not bats that were manufactured for the professional use of Babe ruth during his playing career. The labeling is incorrect for professional model bats in the one case, and inconsistent with the labeling of the period in the other. These bats appear to be a type of commemorative replica bats manufactured well after Ruth's playing career. They are nice bats for the purpose intended, however the value is far below a Ruth game used bat or one manufactured during his playing career.
Second, this thread has illustrated the strengths and benefits of this forum, and Game Used Universe in general. In a true interactive forum, the ability to immediately receive specific information such as provided in this thread by truly knowledgable people like Marcus and Kevin, and see the results of immediate research as posted by Worldchamps Bill, is invaluable. That is the very specific intent of this website as shown in one of its tag lines : Created By Collectors......For Collectors.

Third, a word about a comment made during this thread. Bill Heagy got it right when he thanked Worldchamps Bill for his immediate research posted early in the discussion, and I think he echoed the sentiments of all of us every time we see someone post photos from their research, photos from their own collections or files or specific, well-thought, reasoned discussion to assist another collector,... Again, that's what GUU is all about, even though thanks are not always stated.

Finally, I had to laugh a bit when I saw the term "self-titled experts" tossed around, which I am going to assume was directed at Jim Caravello and myself. Actually, I can assure you that neither of us has ever called ourselves an expert (I imagine the Experts Corner is just a convenient GUU marketing term) In fact, I think that if you were to re-read some of our posts there are times when we ask for assistance from people who have some deeper knowledge of a specific subject that either Jim or I may have. Speaking for myself, I am just a guy who has been involved with game used bats for over 35 years and who happenes to have access to a significant amount of very specific information that 99% of the people in the hobby do not have access to. On this forum, Jim and I basically try to fill a niche and provide that very detailed and specific information to help collectors make informed decisions. If you look at the other available Forums and Bulliten Boards around that claim to be interactive, see what kind of responses are made to very specific questions -- maybe 2 or 3 lines at best. Where else can you go to ask a simple question about Yaz' or Edd Roush's game used bats and receive a complete detailed response of every model in every labeling period, complete with proper dimensions, that was ever shipped to the player from H & B? I'll tell you where -- nowhere except Game Used Universe.

And you know what? There are numerous members that are doing the same thing, with at least as much information being requested and shared off-forum. I never hesitate to contact Jeff scott on Cardinal questions, Art Jaffe on vintage bats, and Carlie Medina on McGwire stuff. If I had Phillies questions, Howard would be my first contact. Jersey tagging? I'd look to Rudy. Those are just a few off the top of my head, and these are all people I've met on this forum in the last year, apart from other contacts I've made over the past bunch of years.

My point is, I believe that everyone on this particular forum, Game Used Universe, is here for pretty much the same reason -- to gain as much information as possible from other experienced and knowledgable collectors and the Game Used Library section of the site, and, in turn, to offer information that they have obtained to others. It's that simple. Or, put another way, to help each other not get ripped off.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[nesportspromotions]

I didn't mean to offend anyone or start an offensive thread at all. I just wanted a little help with these two bats that the current owner wants to sell me. They are from the Babe's daughter and I thought there was a CHANCE they could be real gamers. It seems to be the two bats I posted pics of are not all that exciting. I’m glad I found out BEFORE I purchased them.

One the board one member added photos of a known GOOD Ruth bat. That was especially helpful to me. Please accept my thanks to EVERYONE for your 2 cents b/c I like to hear MANY opinions from MANY people to make informed purchases. Thanks!

Now another question about H&B bats in general...

When did the production of their bats change to the "modern" method?

(Specifically I mean the ends of the bat. They are now smooth at the end of the barrel and on the bottom of the knob. They don't look like the bat was ever part of a bigger piece of wood now. I'm a bit green in the whole bat thing so I really don't know how to describe what I'm writing about.... Sorry. On older bats it looks like there was a small dowel of wood that was broken off the ends.)

[ghostkid]

...On this forum, Jim and I basically try to fill a niche and provide that very detailed and specific information to help collectors make informed decisions...

...My point is, I believe that everyone on this particular forum, Game Used Universe, is here for pretty much the same reason -- to gain as much information as possible from other experienced and knowledgable collectors and the Game Used Library section of the site, and, in turn, to offer information that they have obtained to others. It's that simple. Or, put another way, to help each other not get ripped off.



Excellent reply Mike. In then end, there is not one single person who is all-knowing when it comes to vintage baseball bats (or anything else, for that matter). Your knowledge is certainly very advanced, which I suppose comes from so many years in the bat hobby. To me, your willingness to share that knowledge is worth much more than I ever expected when I first paid for my GUU membership. It's great that we have a place to go when we have a specific question. I also enjoy the opportunity to share my knowledge when possible, even if mine pales in comparison to yours. I'm hoping that we can get even more bat collectors to post their thoughts...as several opinions are generally better than only one or two.

Kevin

[psmachetti]

I am not a vintage bat expert and I have very little experience dealing with such items (and to think I have a bat on consignment with a major auction house right now that is pre-1970s that should fetch over $10,000.00) but I do know one thing:

A guy is thinking about buying some bats for a large amount of money. Any responses about his inquiry should come from people who have bought and sold and researched such an item in the past - Not people sitting around who like to get involved with any and every discussion on this forum. It may hurt the final sale or lack of a final sale because someone is making a view of an item that they have no experience with in the past.

I am going to assume (and you know what they say when you make an assumption) this is not my opinion only.

It's a good thing we have the "Postings Police" to determine who should and shouldn't post on a given subject. I would think that the person asking for advice can distinguish between bat experts posting on the bats and some forum member just giving an opinion based on the pictures and then make an informed decision based on that input. GEE! Thanks for maintaining the integrity of this forum.:rolleyes:
Paul
BTW, I am no expert but if I want to post an opinion on something here I will feel free to do so.

[skipcareyisfat]

It's a good thing we have the "Postings Police" to determine who should and shouldn't post on a given subject. I would think that the person asking for advice can distinguish between bat experts posting on the bats and some forum member just giving an opinion based on the pictures and then make an informed decision based on that input. GEE! Thanks for maintaining the integrity of this forum.:rolleyes:
Paul
BTW, I am no expert but if I want to post an opinion on something here I will feel free to do so.

You're exactly right, Paul. Well said. And now ... the aimless rebuttal.

[trsent]

It's a good thing we have the "Postings Police" to determine who should and shouldn't post on a given subject. I would think that the person asking for advice can distinguish between bat experts posting on the bats and some forum member just giving an opinion based on the pictures and then make an informed decision based on that input. GEE! Thanks for maintaining the integrity of this forum.:rolleyes:
Paul
BTW, I am no expert but if I want to post an opinion on something here I will feel free to do so.

Anything else?

[trsent]

You're exactly right, Paul. Well said. And now ... the aimless rebuttal.

Anything else?

[CollectGU]

It's a good thing we have the "Postings Police" to determine who should and shouldn't post on a given subject. I would think that the person asking for advice can distinguish between bat experts posting on the bats and some forum member just giving an opinion based on the pictures and then make an informed decision based on that input. GEE! Thanks for maintaining the integrity of this forum.:rolleyes:
Paul
BTW, I am no expert but if I want to post an opinion on something here I will feel free to do so.


WAAAY wrong by both you and Skipcarey. If your opinion on something is not based upon at least a little bit of research and experience but a generalized "something looks funny" without any backup then you could be potentially hurting the sale of an item by creating the "perception" that there is something wrong with it. So throwing out an opinion based on bullsh*t is careless and reckless because many people read this and you might shy away a potential buyer with that kind of stuff

[trsent]

WAAAY wrong by both you and Skipcarey. If your opinion on something is not based upon at least a little bit of research and experience but a generalized "something looks funny" without any backup then you could be potentially hurting the sale of an item by creating the "perception" that there is something wrong with it. So throwing out an opinion based on bullsh*t is careless and reckless because many people read this and you might shy away a potential buyer with that kind of stuff

Wow, I think we agree on something today! :p

[ghostkid]

WAAAY wrong by both you and Skipcarey. If your opinion on something is not based upon at least a little bit of research and experience but a generalized "something looks funny" without any backup then you could be potentially hurting the sale of an item by creating the "perception" that there is something wrong with it. So throwing out an opinion based on bullsh*t is careless and reckless because many people read this and you might shy away a potential buyer with that kind of stuff

I agree completely. A couple of months ago there was a frequent poster on this forum who made careless/reckless comments regarding some bats I was selling. There was a newcomer to the hobby who originally struck up a deal to buy one of these bats and, after reading this poster's bullsh*t opinion, chose to back out of the deal. I have since sold that bat to another collector (he was real happy to get it), so all worked out okay in the end. So, you might ask what's the harm? Well, this newcomer has probably decided to spend his money elsewhere and my suspicion is that we lost this guy as a bat collector. Furthermore, even though I am 100% honest, my reputation is probably tainted in this guy's eyes...and you know how the importantance of reputation. Perhaps that's a bit paranoid, but it doesn't change the fact that the careless/reckless comments (subsequently proven to be false) were unwarranted and detrimental to the hobby.

Kevin Kasper
kevinkasper@netzero.com

[skipcareyisfat]

CollectGU, you're absolutely correct. Kevin, I recall that discussion and, if it's the one I'm thinking of, I remember feeling a little sorry for you. Glad it worked out. So...My fault for 1) giving the wrong impression that I support the offering of unsubstantiated and stupid advice, and 2) violating the "think-before-you-post" rule. My sincere apologizes, folks.

[psmachetti]

WAAAY wrong by both you and Skipcarey. If your opinion on something is not based upon at least a little bit of research and experience but a generalized "something looks funny" without any backup then you could be potentially hurting the sale of an item by creating the "perception" that there is something wrong with it. So throwing out an opinion based on bullsh*t is careless and reckless because many people read this and you might shy away a potential buyer with that kind of stuff
Here's something else:
Do you REALLY think that if the buyer read my "opinion" on these bats , which I did not offer BTW, and Mr. Specht's opinion as well, that he would in any way base his decision to purchase or not purchase the bats on something I posted?Anybody w/ a brain would sift through the posts and pay particular atention to those that are from experts in the area. I think members of this board know who are and aren't the "experts" in a particular aspect of the hobby.
BTW in this particular case I don't think you needed an expert to point out the fact that these bats were not used by Babe Ruth. There are "opinions" posted on this board everyday . If only the "experts" posted on a questionable piece of memorabilia there wouldn't be very much going on here now would there?
Paul

[JimCaravello]

I just wanted to thank Mike for his post in this thread. As Mike mentioned himself, I am too honored to be called an Expert - but I can't tell you how many times I have contacted different collectors in the past with questions on both bats and jerseys, including Mike and others in the hobby.

A few things you should know if you ever contact Mike or myself, or any other Expert on GUU with a question:


We don't know everything - If we don't know the answer, we will ask others and try to help you in obtaining the answer to your question.
We do not charge for the services we provide. A user of the Forum recently asked me if I charge for valuing collections for insurance purposes. First off, I told him that Mike and I don't charge anything for our involvement in Game Used Universe and secondly, he should not pay anyone for valuations for insurance purposes and I helped him through that maze of how to value his collection and report it to his insurance company.
We are conservative, pragmatic and logical - unlike others in the hobby who want to authenticate everything and anything, I think if you ask Mike or me a question on a bat - we give you cold hard FACTS and we don't try to guess as to what is really involved in authenticating or validating a piece of lumber.
We are honest and have the highest integrity - I am not tooting my own horn here, but both Mike and I agreed to buy the Mathews bat recently sold on ebay where a collector relied on the GUU database that had incorrect information. We are not paid for our services from GUU, and were not involved in loading that data for that record and yet we both independently informed the owner of the site, Chris Cavalier, that we would buy that bat. Of Course, Chris, who's integrity is unparalled, remedied the situation in a quick and professional manner. There are previous threads on this situation.
We put our own collecting efforts aside to help others - I recently won the Wade Boggs All Star bat on ebay and questions were posted on this site. I posted as much info I knew on the subject matter, even though I desperately wanted that bat for my collection. In essence, I raised the price level by helping to educate others. Around the same time, there was a Thurman Munson bat on ebay that was listed in the wrong section. I would have loved to have that bay in my collection - I found it while performing a Munson search and it was not in the proper game used category. I posted a thread on the Forum immediately after the bat was listed about the bat on ebay, which in essence allowed everyone to know about it and share in the bidding of the piece. I went to about $3,500 on the bat and wish I won. The bat sold for over slightly $5,000. You don't see many people in the hobby who still collect or who are trying to make a quick flip dollar - who go out of their way to help others.Folks - I am not posting this thread to toot our horn - believe me. I just want to make sure that people are reminded of what Game Used Universe is all about. Its not about Mike or me or any other Expert on the site.......

IT'S ABOUT YOU - THE COLLECTOR - AND OUR QUEST TO HELP YOU IN EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR COLLECTING EFFORTS........

Jim