kingjammy24
08-03-2006, 06:23 PM
Besides providing some comedic moments, a recent discussion between Howard and Joel (the Bo Jackson thread) brought up what I think are some interesting, fundamental issues about this Forum and hobby.
Howard's derided for his repetitive beating of Lampson simply on the basis that many already know Lampson is inept and are tired of hearing it. While I understand where they're coming from, I think that sweeping history under the rug simply because it's tiresome to those already aware of it, does a real disservice to those who are unaware. There are new people coming into this hobby and Forum regularly who have no clue about anything. If it's one thing Lampson would love, it would be for his history to be forgotten. A whole new generation of collectors completely unaware of his ineptitude simply because an old generation became tired of hearing it. Most understand the value of history and the necessity of passing it down, and I don't see why it ought to be any different in this hobby. The Lampson St. Pats jersey, the Bushing DiMaggio glove, the Boyd Pujols bat, etc.etc. There's an immense amount to learn from all of them.
(Speaking about the past, I still enjoy going to the Forum archives and reading all the old stuff. You can spend weeks reading threads that are as relevant as ever. If you haven't had the pleasure:http://www.network54.com/Forum/379976/
All sorts of great stuff from back in the day when Grob, Bushing, Rast, Rocco and others would post).
Which brings me to my next point; is lambasting specific authenticators/dealers/auction houses the best way to stop the issues of poor authentications and garbage items?
Joel asked the million dollar question - "How do you change the system?".
I suppose one way is to be "the squeaky wheel", as Howard called himself, and hope to change the system by pointing out dealers, authenticators, and auction houses that fail on many levels. The thing is, aside from the value of passing down history, what does this really accomplish? I don't believe it amounts to much. All you're really doing is showing people that some authenticators and auction houses are rubbish without really giving them the tools to make determinations for themselves. Catching a fish for them once, so to speak, rather than teaching them how to fish. I could rail on, for example, about what a nauseatingly inept buffoon Dave Bushing is when it comes to jerseys. I could detail errors he's made on a whole slew of things ranging from jerseys to gloves to conflicts of interest that make Lampson look brilliant and Ken Lay look virtuous. Tales of a non-existent Masters degree, writing multiple COAs on items he had a financial interest in without disclosing it, giving A10 grades to blatantly retail jerseys, basing entire opinions solely on the foggy recollections of players, issuing COAs on items he never actually saw, deciding a Tom Seaver glove made in the mid-70s was somehow used during the more valuable 1969 Miracle Mets season, authenticating a "game-used" DiMaggio glove made years after he retired in the 50's as being from the 30's, all swirl in my head. But at the end of it all, what would I have really accomplished? Would it force Bushing to retire? Would it force MEARS to fire him? Hardly. Bushing would continue to plod forth, unaffected, wrapped in the hyperbole and PR drivel that spinmaster Grob is so adept at weaving every time Bushing screws up. The same for Lampson and others with a solid history of ineptitude. Can anyone tell me a single major authenticator or auction house that has actually ceased doing business because their reputation became bad?
As I've told Howard, if Lampson hasn't been brought down by this point, he never will. He has, quite possibly, the worst rep in the entire hobby and has made some of the most insane errors seen (alongside Bushing) and yet Vintage and others continue to hire him. (So much for reputation being important). Call me pessimistic but I believe you can spend years pointing out all the errors and frauds being committed and it won't affect those responsible. I'm simply going by history. Until the FBI get involved again or serious fines start being levied, Lampson, Bushing, and others will continue to shrug off inexcusable errors.
Rather than pointing fingers and discussing people and processes that'll never change, I think the better solution is to spend that time and effort in educating yourself and others about the items themselves. That is, teach them "to fish". Lampson, Bushing, and others will continue to make braindead errors until they're six feet under. The errors and criticism won't force them to stop. I don't believe anything short of a class-action lawsuit would cause Lampson to take responsibility for his opinions. Unless you're genuinely prepared to undertake something of that magnitude then I believe your time is better spent acquiring and sharing knowledge about the items you collect. "Doing your homework". If everyone had the necessary knowledge then authentications are irrelevant as you're able to make decisions for yourself. If everyone could easily discern retail from gamer, for example, then having Bushing give an A10 to a retail jersey has no consequence. Everyone would know it's incorrect, noone would purchase the jersey and there would be no need to discuss it. The A10 would be as meaningless as the rantings of a madman and about as worth discussing. The more time spent on research, the more knowledge everyone can acquire and make determinations for themselves, the more irrelevant Lampson and the rest become.
It makes sense especially given the nature of this Forum; you have upstanding people like Mike Specht and Jim Caravello readily sharing in-depth, expert advice for free. Pulling bat records for free. You've got others with serious expertise in various niches who'll gladly share their knowledge. In short, you've got all the resources necessary to learn what you want.
If Lampson or Bushing ever fall it will be because there's a lack of demand for their services, not because people complain about their skills. Criticism means nothing to some. Both of them have been criticized for years. They're still chugging along as strong as ever. The only thing that'll work is a lack of business. Hence why I'm going to spend my time abstaining from comments about MEARS which, in the past, seem to have done nothing to encourage them to employ a real jersey expert. Instead I'll spend my time freely and happily disseminating the information that they charge for. Howard worries about the new collectors who lack knowledge and fall for the gibberish of these "experts" but I'd offer that although new collectors may lack knowledge, if they at least know where to go to acquire it then they'll see little reason to pay Bushing or Lampson $100 for a halfassed opinion.
On that note, I'd like to end off with a couple of favorite quotes of mine:
The first from real glove-expert Dennis Esken, who I think absolutely hit the nail on the head:
"These guys aren't qualified," Esken says. "They spend more time marketing themselves as experts than doing research."
And the second, from Joel Alpert:
"I can't believe you assumed I ate Co-Co Puffs ever"
Rudy.
Howard's derided for his repetitive beating of Lampson simply on the basis that many already know Lampson is inept and are tired of hearing it. While I understand where they're coming from, I think that sweeping history under the rug simply because it's tiresome to those already aware of it, does a real disservice to those who are unaware. There are new people coming into this hobby and Forum regularly who have no clue about anything. If it's one thing Lampson would love, it would be for his history to be forgotten. A whole new generation of collectors completely unaware of his ineptitude simply because an old generation became tired of hearing it. Most understand the value of history and the necessity of passing it down, and I don't see why it ought to be any different in this hobby. The Lampson St. Pats jersey, the Bushing DiMaggio glove, the Boyd Pujols bat, etc.etc. There's an immense amount to learn from all of them.
(Speaking about the past, I still enjoy going to the Forum archives and reading all the old stuff. You can spend weeks reading threads that are as relevant as ever. If you haven't had the pleasure:http://www.network54.com/Forum/379976/
All sorts of great stuff from back in the day when Grob, Bushing, Rast, Rocco and others would post).
Which brings me to my next point; is lambasting specific authenticators/dealers/auction houses the best way to stop the issues of poor authentications and garbage items?
Joel asked the million dollar question - "How do you change the system?".
I suppose one way is to be "the squeaky wheel", as Howard called himself, and hope to change the system by pointing out dealers, authenticators, and auction houses that fail on many levels. The thing is, aside from the value of passing down history, what does this really accomplish? I don't believe it amounts to much. All you're really doing is showing people that some authenticators and auction houses are rubbish without really giving them the tools to make determinations for themselves. Catching a fish for them once, so to speak, rather than teaching them how to fish. I could rail on, for example, about what a nauseatingly inept buffoon Dave Bushing is when it comes to jerseys. I could detail errors he's made on a whole slew of things ranging from jerseys to gloves to conflicts of interest that make Lampson look brilliant and Ken Lay look virtuous. Tales of a non-existent Masters degree, writing multiple COAs on items he had a financial interest in without disclosing it, giving A10 grades to blatantly retail jerseys, basing entire opinions solely on the foggy recollections of players, issuing COAs on items he never actually saw, deciding a Tom Seaver glove made in the mid-70s was somehow used during the more valuable 1969 Miracle Mets season, authenticating a "game-used" DiMaggio glove made years after he retired in the 50's as being from the 30's, all swirl in my head. But at the end of it all, what would I have really accomplished? Would it force Bushing to retire? Would it force MEARS to fire him? Hardly. Bushing would continue to plod forth, unaffected, wrapped in the hyperbole and PR drivel that spinmaster Grob is so adept at weaving every time Bushing screws up. The same for Lampson and others with a solid history of ineptitude. Can anyone tell me a single major authenticator or auction house that has actually ceased doing business because their reputation became bad?
As I've told Howard, if Lampson hasn't been brought down by this point, he never will. He has, quite possibly, the worst rep in the entire hobby and has made some of the most insane errors seen (alongside Bushing) and yet Vintage and others continue to hire him. (So much for reputation being important). Call me pessimistic but I believe you can spend years pointing out all the errors and frauds being committed and it won't affect those responsible. I'm simply going by history. Until the FBI get involved again or serious fines start being levied, Lampson, Bushing, and others will continue to shrug off inexcusable errors.
Rather than pointing fingers and discussing people and processes that'll never change, I think the better solution is to spend that time and effort in educating yourself and others about the items themselves. That is, teach them "to fish". Lampson, Bushing, and others will continue to make braindead errors until they're six feet under. The errors and criticism won't force them to stop. I don't believe anything short of a class-action lawsuit would cause Lampson to take responsibility for his opinions. Unless you're genuinely prepared to undertake something of that magnitude then I believe your time is better spent acquiring and sharing knowledge about the items you collect. "Doing your homework". If everyone had the necessary knowledge then authentications are irrelevant as you're able to make decisions for yourself. If everyone could easily discern retail from gamer, for example, then having Bushing give an A10 to a retail jersey has no consequence. Everyone would know it's incorrect, noone would purchase the jersey and there would be no need to discuss it. The A10 would be as meaningless as the rantings of a madman and about as worth discussing. The more time spent on research, the more knowledge everyone can acquire and make determinations for themselves, the more irrelevant Lampson and the rest become.
It makes sense especially given the nature of this Forum; you have upstanding people like Mike Specht and Jim Caravello readily sharing in-depth, expert advice for free. Pulling bat records for free. You've got others with serious expertise in various niches who'll gladly share their knowledge. In short, you've got all the resources necessary to learn what you want.
If Lampson or Bushing ever fall it will be because there's a lack of demand for their services, not because people complain about their skills. Criticism means nothing to some. Both of them have been criticized for years. They're still chugging along as strong as ever. The only thing that'll work is a lack of business. Hence why I'm going to spend my time abstaining from comments about MEARS which, in the past, seem to have done nothing to encourage them to employ a real jersey expert. Instead I'll spend my time freely and happily disseminating the information that they charge for. Howard worries about the new collectors who lack knowledge and fall for the gibberish of these "experts" but I'd offer that although new collectors may lack knowledge, if they at least know where to go to acquire it then they'll see little reason to pay Bushing or Lampson $100 for a halfassed opinion.
On that note, I'd like to end off with a couple of favorite quotes of mine:
The first from real glove-expert Dennis Esken, who I think absolutely hit the nail on the head:
"These guys aren't qualified," Esken says. "They spend more time marketing themselves as experts than doing research."
And the second, from Joel Alpert:
"I can't believe you assumed I ate Co-Co Puffs ever"
Rudy.