kingjammy24
08-05-2006, 10:33 PM
i read a post awhile ago and thought it brought up some important notions of "game use".
"I was going through the "game used" jerseys up for bid at historic auctions, and the listings say show "nice use" or tremendous use", and I have looked at the photos of most and from what I see there is no game use shown. When I hear "game used", I'd expect to see some dirt, pine tar, maybe even some grass stains. The listings claim they show rubbing, or pillage, and fraying of letters or numbers. I know that is part of the game use, but if that is all it shows it seems like a waste of money to me. I like a dirty, worn out jersey that there is no question it was used, at least for more than maybe a game or two. I'm not saying these jerseys are not "game used", but it seems strange to me"
understandably there's a lot of emphasis put on jerseys showing "game use". game use supposedly legitimizes an item by proving it was used in a game. the more use, the more desireable the item and the higher the premium paid. i think some types of "game use" have the opposite effect though; they cast a shadow of doubt and possibly prove an item isn't legit. for me, dirt and grass stains always raise a red flag.
firstly, since the majority of jerseys are washed with harsh detergents before making their way out of the clubhouse, dirt and/or grass stains on a jersey imply that it was one of those rare few that was obtained right after a game, straight off the athlete's back prior to being washed. ie: it implies some incredible provenance that's relatively uncommon. most people aren't able to acquire a jersey straight from an athlete after a game. if you do have a jersey with dirt/grass stains, does it also have a "ripe" smell? if dirt and grass stains are present it implies the jersey wasn't washed as these sorts of stains usually wash out. if it wasn't washed the sweat should still be in the fabric and it shouldn't smell clean. if the jersey smells clean it means it was washed. if it was washed, how did the grass and dirt stains not also wash out? most likely they didn't wash out because they were put onto a clean jersey that was never worn.
secondly, dirt and grass stains are 2 of the easiest, quickest, cheapest things to fake. any idiot with a lawn and 5 seconds of spare time can put dirt and grass stains on a jersey. on the other hand, it's substantially harder to fake realistic pilling, puckering, color fading. that takes time and skill that many people either don't have or aren't willing to do. can you imagine how difficult it is to realistically fade the sleeve trim on a baseball jersey to simulate 4 months worth of daily sunlight and well over 100 washings?
forget the dirt and grass stains which you usually won't see even on legit, well worn jerseys and look for:
- frayed threads that are worn through and not cut and are frayed in the proper area
- uniformly faded logos, trim, numbers, and letters
- a legit and consistent pucker on the logo, name, numbers and manufacturer's tag
- a smooth feel to the fabric that's come from many washings which have caused it lose it's original roughness
- small scratches and nicks on the buttons
- a legit curl and possibly fading on any paper flag tags
- legitimate pilling in the proper areas
- buttons that are loose and button holes that aren't tight indicating the jersey was buttoned and unbuttoned many times over
those are some of legit things that necessarily happen to a jersey over use and they take way more than a game or two to happen. it takes substantial use. legit pilling takes a long time. grass and dirt stains can happen in a game in the first 5 minutes. if done fraudulently, they take even less than 5 minutes to apply. i look for indicators such as those mentioned above because they're substantially harder to fake, they need to be consistent with each other in order to be legit and so any inconsistancy between any of them indicates the use may be fabricated, they necessarily must occur if the jersey was used heavily.
grass and dirt stains raise also red flags because they fall into the category of unlikely/too obvious indicators. everyone loves the idea of seeing them and they automatically think "wow i bet he slid in the dirt!". my first reaction when i see them is that someone wants me to think it's heavily worn so they put the most visually dramatic effect on the jersey. let's say, for example, that you're a detective who's been called to a murder scene. you arrive and right beside the body you see a smoking gun on the ground. pretty quick conclusion isn't it? but doesn't it seem a little too obvious? a little too contrived? too easy? sure it could be the real murder weapon, but what are the odds that an obvious murder weapon is right beside the body? so convenient it almost appears staged. that's how i feel when i see some types of purported game use. people have echoed this sentiment, for example, with the custom-tagged manny ramirez jerseys that were sold directly by manny. they looked like manny had rolled around in a dirt and grass pit for 20 minutes. it looked so contrived and overdone. the overkill made them look staged. they had little wash wear evident but gee whiz they had huge dirt and grass stains all over the front, back and i think even inside. what did manny do..dig a tunnel in them? i wonder if any of them smelled of old sweat?
here's a little sampler of "game use" that raises some questions for me:
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/340/tag1mc5.jpg
i'd be very interested in anyone else's thoughts or experiences with contrived "game use", especially on other things like bats. i imagine people fabricate cleat and rack marks?
rudy.
"I was going through the "game used" jerseys up for bid at historic auctions, and the listings say show "nice use" or tremendous use", and I have looked at the photos of most and from what I see there is no game use shown. When I hear "game used", I'd expect to see some dirt, pine tar, maybe even some grass stains. The listings claim they show rubbing, or pillage, and fraying of letters or numbers. I know that is part of the game use, but if that is all it shows it seems like a waste of money to me. I like a dirty, worn out jersey that there is no question it was used, at least for more than maybe a game or two. I'm not saying these jerseys are not "game used", but it seems strange to me"
understandably there's a lot of emphasis put on jerseys showing "game use". game use supposedly legitimizes an item by proving it was used in a game. the more use, the more desireable the item and the higher the premium paid. i think some types of "game use" have the opposite effect though; they cast a shadow of doubt and possibly prove an item isn't legit. for me, dirt and grass stains always raise a red flag.
firstly, since the majority of jerseys are washed with harsh detergents before making their way out of the clubhouse, dirt and/or grass stains on a jersey imply that it was one of those rare few that was obtained right after a game, straight off the athlete's back prior to being washed. ie: it implies some incredible provenance that's relatively uncommon. most people aren't able to acquire a jersey straight from an athlete after a game. if you do have a jersey with dirt/grass stains, does it also have a "ripe" smell? if dirt and grass stains are present it implies the jersey wasn't washed as these sorts of stains usually wash out. if it wasn't washed the sweat should still be in the fabric and it shouldn't smell clean. if the jersey smells clean it means it was washed. if it was washed, how did the grass and dirt stains not also wash out? most likely they didn't wash out because they were put onto a clean jersey that was never worn.
secondly, dirt and grass stains are 2 of the easiest, quickest, cheapest things to fake. any idiot with a lawn and 5 seconds of spare time can put dirt and grass stains on a jersey. on the other hand, it's substantially harder to fake realistic pilling, puckering, color fading. that takes time and skill that many people either don't have or aren't willing to do. can you imagine how difficult it is to realistically fade the sleeve trim on a baseball jersey to simulate 4 months worth of daily sunlight and well over 100 washings?
forget the dirt and grass stains which you usually won't see even on legit, well worn jerseys and look for:
- frayed threads that are worn through and not cut and are frayed in the proper area
- uniformly faded logos, trim, numbers, and letters
- a legit and consistent pucker on the logo, name, numbers and manufacturer's tag
- a smooth feel to the fabric that's come from many washings which have caused it lose it's original roughness
- small scratches and nicks on the buttons
- a legit curl and possibly fading on any paper flag tags
- legitimate pilling in the proper areas
- buttons that are loose and button holes that aren't tight indicating the jersey was buttoned and unbuttoned many times over
those are some of legit things that necessarily happen to a jersey over use and they take way more than a game or two to happen. it takes substantial use. legit pilling takes a long time. grass and dirt stains can happen in a game in the first 5 minutes. if done fraudulently, they take even less than 5 minutes to apply. i look for indicators such as those mentioned above because they're substantially harder to fake, they need to be consistent with each other in order to be legit and so any inconsistancy between any of them indicates the use may be fabricated, they necessarily must occur if the jersey was used heavily.
grass and dirt stains raise also red flags because they fall into the category of unlikely/too obvious indicators. everyone loves the idea of seeing them and they automatically think "wow i bet he slid in the dirt!". my first reaction when i see them is that someone wants me to think it's heavily worn so they put the most visually dramatic effect on the jersey. let's say, for example, that you're a detective who's been called to a murder scene. you arrive and right beside the body you see a smoking gun on the ground. pretty quick conclusion isn't it? but doesn't it seem a little too obvious? a little too contrived? too easy? sure it could be the real murder weapon, but what are the odds that an obvious murder weapon is right beside the body? so convenient it almost appears staged. that's how i feel when i see some types of purported game use. people have echoed this sentiment, for example, with the custom-tagged manny ramirez jerseys that were sold directly by manny. they looked like manny had rolled around in a dirt and grass pit for 20 minutes. it looked so contrived and overdone. the overkill made them look staged. they had little wash wear evident but gee whiz they had huge dirt and grass stains all over the front, back and i think even inside. what did manny do..dig a tunnel in them? i wonder if any of them smelled of old sweat?
here's a little sampler of "game use" that raises some questions for me:
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/340/tag1mc5.jpg
i'd be very interested in anyone else's thoughts or experiences with contrived "game use", especially on other things like bats. i imagine people fabricate cleat and rack marks?
rudy.