Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

[otismalibu]

First off, I know little or nothing about baseball jerseys...other than what I might pick up on this board.

Someone sent me this link today.

http://www.mearsonline.com/news/newsDetail.asp?id=776

I've read it a few times over and it still makes no sense to me. Is Mr. Grob saying that a patch and a laundry marker 2 was added to a 1975 Rose jersey to make it look like a 1976 Rose jersey?

What would be the point? Didn't the Reds win the Series both years? Does a patch and 2 make it more valuable than the 1975 version? Did Rose have a significantly better statistical season or post season in 1976?

[bronx_burner]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

That's what it sounds like to me. But it seems the seller is the only one who can answer what the reasoning was because I don't think anyone would place a higher value on the 76 jersey just because it had the patch. Statistically both years were similar for Rose, an all-star both years and top 5 in MVP voting in both as well. Numbers across the board were pretty close in almost all categories. Rose was World Series MVP in 75 which (at least to me) would make the 75 jersey more attractive.

What would possess someone to alter a Mears authenticated 75 Rose to a fake 76 is beyond my (and I assume most others) comprehension. But I'm sure Dave has no idea why this was done and did the only thing he could do in alerting people that it was actually done. The tags are clearly the same.

[notxpensv4u]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

Very interesting read. This is the very reason I have decided not to puchase older game used. I have been burnt a few times. Thanks to the great people at gameuseduniverse I have been educated. Have a Great Holiday guys and thanks for helping me save $$$!!!

[karamaxjoe]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

What would possess someone to alter a Mears authenticated 75 Rose to a fake 76 is beyond my (and I assume most others) comprehension.

Here's a thought......maybe Greg should enlighten us on the reason.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

The handwritten "2" looks to be an effort to mimic the handwritten set numbers often (though not always) inscribed on mid-1970s Reds road Wilson gamers since the style at the time did not employ year/set strip tags like they did in the late 1970's and through 1984. Said "2", however, is noticeably different than the numbers the team actually added to the tag. In the majority of such instances, the number was written in red, not black; the handwriting style of the "2" was more rounded and less jagged than this exemplar, and was centered on the Wilosn tag, not off to one side as this tag shows.

Why this was done, I have no clue, but Dave Grob was correct in pointing this flaw out to other hobbyists.

Dave Miedema

[notxpensv4u]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

Say it aint so Greg

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=33247

[metsbats]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

The 1976 BiCentennial bats typically sell at a premium being a one year style and the Nation's 200th year birthday. Perhaps the presence of the 76 patch on the jersey adds some premium to the jersey too?

[Dach0sen0ne]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

That's why I love the internet, instant information.

[1970REDS]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

The 76 Reds are one of the greatest of all time , Like the 27 Yankees , would a jersey from Ruth or Gehrig from the 27 season not bring a premium compared to a 1926 or 28 jersey . The Reds commons from 76 bring a premium , so one would assume a Rose jersey would also.

[bronx_burner]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

While I was a bit young at the time to have a first hand opinion on 75 vs 76 Reds, I've always heard the 75 team as being considered the better of the 2. And consistently being mentioned in the top 10 teams of all time. I won't argue the point either way, if you say 76 was one of the all time great teams. I've just always heard it the other way around. Which is why this alteration continues to baffle me.

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

guys time to brush up on your history. tim mccarver who has forgetten more about baseball then any of us will ever know once said 76 had his vote for greatest team ever. there is good reason to support that statement. they were the only team EVER in mlb history to sweep the playoffs and the world series. they led all of baseball in 10 major stat categories, something again no team has EVER done. seven of their eight regulars made the allstar team. the 75 team won more regular season games but was not as domainant. the team also marked the end of the reds run as after the season they traded perez and the next year they finished second with 14 less wins than in 76. as we all know they would go titleless until the lou pinella team that was devoid of legendary players except for barry larkin a borderline hofer.

[aeneas01]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

What would possess someone to alter a Mears authenticated 75 Rose to a fake 76 is beyond my (and I assume most others) comprehension.

i think it was altered before it was sent to mears for evaluation. as such mears described it in their loo as a 1976 jersey, not a 1975. dave grob mentioned in his piece that the reds' 1975 and 1976 road jerseys were basically the same, so it was the patch that ultimately drove the 1976 description. at least that's my understanding...

but i'm with you, why change a 1975 rose shirt into a 1976 rose shirt? especially given rose won the 1975 world series mvp as you mentioned. i'm no jersey guy, but it seems that it could have even been argued that the shirt was quite possibly worn by rose during the '75 series, when he won his ws mvp. that would be more valuable than a '76 rose shirt, no?

who knows, maybe the person who altered the shirt did so because he got wind of a collector looking for 1976 bicentennial items, perhaps specifically from the reds, willing to pony up a sturdy price. seems like someone was asking around the forum for bicentennial reds bats not too long ago....

whatever the case, this looks pretty darn bad, pretty darn embarrassing... btw i wonder if the person who altered the shirt got the idea of the black magic marker set number from these reds' shirts that have sold at auction:






...

[dcrules01]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

So was Greg the one that altered it. I remember his thread about aquiring the 75 Rose jersey. And now that the jersey was altered does it devalue the 75. Times are tough for everyone but why ruin a valuable piece. Also Dave mentioned Greg aquired a 76 with the bicentennial patch and then resold that jersey without the patch. I have dealt with Greg on a few occasions he has always been upfront with me when I have been looking for items. It would be ashame if this was done. I would love to find a 76 Youngblood or Flynn jersey with the patch but if I am correct they were recycled. Any possibility that Rose was giving the same jersey he wore in 75 to be used again in 76? A lot of collectors like patches I do also. I have a 78 road Youngblood for the Mets. Hope to find a 79-82 one day with his name on the back. This would be like me stripping the 78 and having his name added on the back. I would never do that. I also was baffled when krukcards listed a 79 road Mets Richie Hebner but the tagging said it was set 1 and had the number 18 Youngbloods number. Also had the outline of a longer nameplate for Youngbloods name but it was Hebners.. All we as collectors can do is do out homework ourselves. The thing that bothers me I'd the fact that it seems Greg tried selling the jersey even as Dave requested the original documentation bacj. Only Greg can answer this but as he was not obligated to provide proof that he has both jerseys in his possesion wouldn't any of us do that just to show that we were innocent. I know I would have no problem.

[Number9]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

The part I dont understand is why RUIN in 75 jersey, a jersey I assume is worth 5 grand or more. I mean you cant get that sharpie off without likely damaging part of the tag and if you take that patch off you likely will have some stitch damage. So to me it is ruined.
Now it is neither a 1976 jersey or an all-original 1975 jersey.
At least with a bad jersey someone tries to turn into a good one, its not a financial risk, but with this one you risk (and ruin) a $5,000 jersey. Doesn't make sense.

[diamondicons]

Re: Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

This is disappointing…the hobby now has one less legitimate 1974-1975 Rose jersey. After Greg indicated he had a 76 Rose, I made multiple attempts to purchase his 75. Now I know why he declined. I know Greg’s primary emphasis was the 1976 Reds. He had multiple 76 bats and purchased my 76 Gullett. Even so, his intentional alteration of the jersey to make it appear as a 76 makes no sense. Fortunately for the hobby, the issue surfaced and was investigated by Dave Grob…otherwise there would be a 1976 Rose MEARS 10 that no one would have questioned.