Zack Greinke to the Brewers??

[happyyoungster]

Reports are surfacing that a deal is in place. I wonder if this has any weight!?!
I'll believe it when I see it, I guess.

[legaleagle92481]

Do you believe it now? Great move by the Brew Crew and yet another big name goes somewhere other than the Yanks.

[CampWest]

I'm pretty disappointed. I knew for a fact that there was ZERO chance Greinke was a Royal by the time Spring Training started. But I'm not happy about the package of players the Royals got. Sure a couple have the upside of being AVERAGE major leaguers at their position. But I don't like trading one stud for 4 average players. I thought for sure the Royals would get at least one near-lock-future-All-Star. Instead they marginally upgraded two positions, added a relief pitcher who is one marijuana violation away from a lifetime ban, and an A-ball pitcher who may top out as a #3-4 starter if he even makes it to the majors.

Anyway you slice it, there is nothing for Royals fans to be excited about in this deal. And I was a huge fan of Alcides throughout his minor league career. But frankly I just don't think his bat will develop enough - he had a historically bad OPS+ in his rookie year.

[happyyoungster]

I agree with your assessment of Escobar, Jeffress & Odirizzi.

However, I would suggest you give Lorenzo Cain a good look. That kid has 5-tool potential and was the centerpiece of that trade for you guys.

[sox83cubs84]

Happy One, you called it!:)

Nice to see the Brewers as an actual player in the market, instead of holding annual fire sales.

Dave Miedema

[LastingsMilledge85]

The Brewers deciding to take Betancourt off the hands of the Royals is what really put it through for what the Royals got in return. The Nats had the best package of players for the Royals, but Zack wouldn't go to DC for some reason.

[legaleagle92481]

This wasn't a baseball trade. They already had a top farm system, the issue was the fact that Grienke wanted to go badly and by the time his contract was up in two years these prospects would only just be starting to come into their own. So if they are going to lose for two more years they figured why have an unhappy ace and get what they can for him. He didn't want to go to the Nats for the same reason as he did not want to stay with the Royals: the team is not contending next year or probably the year after either. Can't blame the guy for wanting to win while he is in his 20s. Could they have gotten a better return? Of course but he had the limited no trade clause he was wielding, he has a history of anxiety that ruled out the big cities, was coming off a poor year and other teams that were said to be interested like the Jays had road blocks to contention. The Brewers play in a winnable division the Cards and Reds are good but not super powers like the Phils, Sox or Yanks, they can be beaten. Who knows maybe one of these prospects will pan out and losing Betancourt is addition by subtraction as many feel he is the worst everday player in the game.

[CampWest]

This wasn't a baseball trade. They already had a top farm system, the issue was the fact that Grienke wanted to go badly and by the time his contract was up in two years these prospects would only just be starting to come into their own. So if they are going to lose for two more years they figured why have an unhappy ace and get what they can for him. He didn't want to go to the Nats for the same reason as he did not want to stay with the Royals: the team is not contending next year or probably the year after either. Can't blame the guy for wanting to win while he is in his 20s. Could they have gotten a better return? Of course but he had the limited no trade clause he was wielding, he has a history of anxiety that ruled out the big cities, was coming off a poor year and other teams that were said to be interested like the Jays had road blocks to contention. The Brewers play in a winnable division the Cards and Reds are good but not super powers like the Phils, Sox or Yanks, they can be beaten. Who knows maybe one of these prospects will pan out and losing Betancourt is addition by subtraction as many feel he is the worst everday player in the game.

It also helps that the Royals saved a net of about $24 million in the swap. They did have to pay Milwaukee for half of Betancourts $4mil salary next year. Maybe the Royals will parlay that savings into an 8 year deal for Billy Butler and lock him up until he's 32. :o :rolleyes: :cool:

Acquiring Escobar, essentially moves the Royals #4 pick last year Christian Colon to second base from SS.

Happyyoungster, I do think Cain has some potential, but he has shown pretty much no power throughout his career, which I am okay with for a centerfielder whose strength is defense. If he can be a consistent legitimate leadoff hitter and play Gold Glove defense in our huge outfield, I will be happy with that. We traded for Gregor Blanco last year and I thought he showed some similar potential last year, so I am so far unsure of how much better Cain is than Blanco.

I'd like to be positive and optimistic, but these deals never work out for the Royals. The guys the Royals acquire never live up to their promise. I'd like to think all four of these guys turn into really good major leaguers, but ... now they are Royals.:(

[Bravesfan]

If I was a Royal fan I wouldnt be too upset.
I don't think he will ever be very good again anyway. He was way too many issues.

[CampWest]

If I was a Royal fan I wouldnt be too upset.
I don't think he will ever be very good again anyway. He was way too many issues.

I'd love to wager on that.

He started last season very very well. Through 9 starts he had a 2.77 ERA, but lousy run support and set-up man issues left him holding a 1-4 record. He got understandably frustrated and did lose a little focus. He was frustrated and it showed in a drop in his numbers.

Nonetheless he is a very fierce competitor and he pitched very well through August with a 3.81 ERA but an 8-11 record. September was not good, Royals had given up on the season and he posted a 5.92 for the month. Despite the poor finish, his end line on the season was a 4.17 ERA, which is good in the AL. He tallied 181K in 220 IP with just 55 BB.

He is just 27 years old. When he's on fire, he's as good as anybody in the league. He does need to be winning and competetive to play his best, but I think most players play better when they're contending. I've seen just about every start of his the past 3 years and he's fine.

The issues you condemn him for he has handled really well for the last few years. He has taken control of his social anxiety and frankly who cares if he doesnt like being in a crowd of strangers, last I checked there's usually only one guy standing on the mound at a time.

He has some incredible pitches, great control, pitches inside well, and attacks hitters. I think he'll be a perennial All-Star and compete for more Cy Young awards (which is looking to be getting tougher and tougher in the NL), especially on a team that can help him more than the Royals have done.

I think Greinke's best years are ahead of him.

[Manram]

I'd love to wager on that.

He started last season very very well. Through 9 starts he had a 2.77 ERA, but lousy run support and set-up man issues left him holding a 1-4 record. He got understandably frustrated and did lose a little focus. He was frustrated and it showed in a drop in his numbers.

Nonetheless he is a very fierce competitor and he pitched very well through August with a 3.81 ERA but an 8-11 record. September was not good, Royals had given up on the season and he posted a 5.92 for the month. Despite the poor finish, his end line on the season was a 4.17 ERA, which is good in the AL. He tallied 181K in 220 IP with just 55 BB.

He is just 27 years old. When he's on fire, he's as good as anybody in the league. He does need to be winning and competetive to play his best, but I think most players play better when they're contending. I've seen just about every start of his the past 3 years and he's fine.

The issues you condemn him for he has handled really well for the last few years. He has taken control of his social anxiety and frankly who cares if he doesnt like being in a crowd of strangers, last I checked there's usually only one guy standing on the mound at a time.

He has some incredible pitches, great control, pitches inside well, and attacks hitters. I think he'll be a perennial All-Star and compete for more Cy Young awards (which is looking to be getting tougher and tougher in the NL), especially on a team that can help him more than the Royals have done.

I think Greinke's best years are ahead of him.

You're right. Escobar has been hitting like crap in the winter league just as he did last season. Cain is a good player but nothing special. And jeffress we all know about him haha. Although the pitcing prospect they got is supoosed to be good. Brewers definately got the better deal here in greinke, who with run support will win 20+ games

[Bravesfan]

I'd love to wager on that.



The issues you condemn him for he has handled really well for the last few years. He has taken control of his social anxiety and frankly who cares if he doesnt like being in a crowd of strangers, last I checked there's usually only one guy standing on the mound at a time.


Slow down. Talk about condemning someone, sheesh.
I wasn't even talking about his social anxiety.
Maybe you shouldn't "condemn" me by pretending to know what I am thinking.

Let me clarify please.
Greinke in my mind will never be great again. I believe that he is too streaky and too hard on himself to ever be a Cy Yound pitcher again. The presure he puts on himself will overwhelm him I believe.

[Bravesfan]

I meant Cy Young not Yound

[legaleagle92481]

Grienke was in a no win situation he fell off because Cy Young himself could not win with the Royals offense behind him. The Brew Crew has a much, much better offense, few lineups have a combo like Braun and Prince. Plus Wisconsin is a good town for him because people are more into the Packers, the media scrunity is not great for baseball players and the team has not won in years so it is not like he is going to the Phils or Yankees where it is a crisis if they dont make the LCS in a given year. They win the division and maybe a division series and that would be the best thing to happen to them in 30 years not a high bar.

[legaleagle92481]

Slow down. Talk about condemning someone, sheesh.
I wasn't even talking about his social anxiety.
Maybe you shouldn't "condemn" me by pretending to know what I am thinking.

Let me clarify please.
Greinke in my mind will never be great again. I believe that he is too streaky and too hard on himself to ever be a Cy Yound pitcher again. The presure he puts on himself will overwhelm him I believe.

As far as the Cy Young, very few players have won more than one and last year there were alot of great NL Pitchers who did not win it. Wainwright, Ubaldo, Carpenter and several others all had stellar years without winning. Heck Juan Marichal one of the best pitchers ever never won one neither did Nolan Ryan. And many pitchers are streaky it is the nature of the beast when your on your on when your off your off. He wins 12-15 games a year, with a four era this deal is a win unless one of the prospects they gave up suddenly morphs into a star.

[Bravesfan]

When I said Cy Young pitcher I meant the quality of pitcher not the reward.
Do man crushes always run this deep around here? You guys are too defensive

[CampWest]

Do man crushes always run this deep around here? You guys are too defensive

Too defensive? Man crush? We clearly disagree. And I am fine with that. I stated my opinion (as did Legal and ManRam), its okay to do that. Do you not like seeing counter-opinions to your own so you take it as other's being irrational fan-boys?

I'm not defensive of him and I do not have a Man Crush. I just like his pitches and his approach -- my unbiased, objective opinion.

I simply disagree with your opinion that you "don't think he will ever be very good again" and "he has way too many issues" and stated why I think he'll see continued success. I'm basing this on closely watching over 100 of his starts the past 5+ years.

I personally don't care if Greinke is ever any good again (I have nothing to gain from it, I'm not friends with him, though I wish him well just like most everybody else in the world). If that equals Man Crush, then I have some thinking to do.

[CampWest]

Slow down. Talk about condemning someone, sheesh.
I wasn't even talking about his social anxiety.
Maybe you shouldn't "condemn" me by pretending to know what I am thinking.
Let me clarify please.
Greinke in my mind will never be great again. I believe that he is too streaky and too hard on himself to ever be a Cy Yound pitcher again. The presure he puts on himself will overwhelm him I believe.


"The issues you condemn him for he has handled really well for the last few years. {One such issue,} He has taken control of his social anxiety and frankly who cares if he doesnt like being in a crowd of strangers, last I checked there's usually only one guy standing on the mound at a time. "

What I meant by that was you were saying his "ISSUES" would be his undoing. Zack has many "ISSUES":
1. He hates losing
2. has trouble staying focused when not winning
3. gets bored when only playing once every 5-6 days.
a. would prefer to be a position player