Buying bats of "common" players

[Klattsy]

Hi All,

In my experiences with GU so far, I have found that it is near impossible of getting MLB/Club authenticated bats of the "common"/minor league players I collect. So far everything in my collecting has an MLB holo or a letter from the team to go with it. This is very important to me as I only have very limited funds so I want to get the absolute purest items.

However, the market price for "GU" bats of the players I collect is very low, $15-$50 generally (there are 2 on ebay now at $17!), and this is very tempting. However this temptation is outweighed by the fact that none of these items have any kind of certification or provenance with them. Even photomatching is very hard as most bats are from the minors or the main photo houses don't stock many pictures of these players. I would love to be able to trust every seller on ebay, but how do they even know if the player used the item or it was used by someone else?

I guess my question is two fold:

1. People that collect "minor" players, how do you trust that the bats you receive are genuine? Do you just put the faith out there that no one would go to the effort of forging that player? I mean just because it has your players name on the barrel, does that make it a target for your collection?

2. In the case of minor players, how often would their bats get used by other players? Does this happen a lot in the minors but not so much in the majors?

Thanks all!
Mark.

[IronPigs92]

1.) In my opinion, no matter who the player is, always do your homework. Bats may not be as they first appear. Always check the player's characteristics and tendencies.
2.) In the minors, there are alot of players using other players bats. When a player gets called up or down, chances are, he won't be able to pack all of his bats, and they end up getting put in the lockers of other players. I have seen phillies top prospect Dominic Brown use Ben Francisco L.S. 125th Anniversary bats. Also on the Reading Phillies I've seen Chase Utley Marucci's as Raul Ibañez bats. Some players trade bats too. But I assume that happens on all levels of the game.

[godwulf]

1. People that collect "minor" players, how do you trust that the bats you receive are genuine? Do you just put the faith out there that no one would go to the effort of forging that player?

For the most part, yes. I buy a ton of prospects' bats, and it would take far more money and effort to "create" most of them than I actually pay - often as little as ten or twenty dollars.


I mean just because it has your players name on the barrel, does that make it a target for your collection?

If there is some evidence that he used it while playing in my team's system, yes. For instance, right now I'm watching a bat of a guy who played for my team's Double-A franchise in 2010, but was in another system before that. Fortunately, it's a Rawlings, so I've asked the Seller to check the knob stampings for the bat's year of manufacture. Of course, the player might have gotten the bat in '09 and used in '10, but in a situation like that, I'd need some other evidence of where he actually used it - like a uniform number on the bat, or the fact that it came from a park where my team plays and the other one doesn't.


2. In the case of minor players, how often would their bats get used by other players? Does this happen a lot in the minors but not so much in the majors?

As IronPigs suggested, I think it happens a lot at all levels. Photos of one major leaguer using another's bat in a game are common. Jay Bell was signing some of his old gamers for me awhile back, and one Pittsburgh bat had '18' on it; I was pretty sure Bell had never worn that number, so I asked him about it. He told me that Andy Van Slyke had frequently "borrowed" his bats, when they played together.

Hey, you know, it's your collection, and if having clearcut provenence, or a photo-match, on every item is what makes you happy, more power to you. Collectors are like snowflakes. Some of us are just flakier than others. :rolleyes:

[godwulf]

By the way, K, if you ever come across any Trent Oeltjen items from his Diamondbacks days that you personally don't want or need for your own collection, please give me a heads-up, if you happen to think about it. I'd really, really like to have one of his bats.

Also, I picked up a beautiful old silver Baseball trophy from Australia a few years back, and I've emailed all over trying to research its history, with no luck at all. If it's okay, I'd like to send you some photos, in hopes that you might know something about it, or might know somebody who would.

Jeff

godwulf1@cox.net

[soxbats]

Klattsy, great post and great questions. I would start with asking why you collect and what your collecting goals are. Is it important to you that you can prove the bat was held by the player in a game? Will the lack of that certainty spoil your enjoyment of the item? Do you want to resell your item later and need to get the best price possible? If you are answering yes to all of these, then in mho you need the authentication that comes from MLB or the team and you probably won't be happy with the undocumented eBay buy. I suggest you contact team stores and try to develop direct sources. In some cases, for the truly common player, writing to the player himself, or his agent, may work too.

However, and there is always a however, while I have the utmost respect for the current generation of game used collectors who insist on authentication and use available resources to photo match, I am not in that camp. I have been collecting game used bats for about 20 years and have probably handled well over 1000 common red sox bats from all sources and I offer these fundamental truths about common bats:

1. They are often times more difficult to locate than the bats of stars. Even today, with the advent of Steiner and team sales, truly common players bats are scarce because there is no money in them, fewer are made for them, and many minor leaguers now use pro stock. If you find the obscure bat on eBay, trust me you may never see it again. This is also why you don't see many with MLB authentication.

2. People don't usually fake common player's bats. You aren't going to see Joe fraudster faking use on a Gustav Molina red sox bat on eBay. There is no money in it. Also, poor Gustav who probably got one or two orders of his own bats, is not going to be handing them around. The only question you may have is whether the use was his. My rule of thumb is look for the correct knob number, although for the truly scarce I waive this rule too. As for use characteristics, unless the player is your obsession and you tape all his at bats or dig through MLB.com, you probably aren't going to be able determine these for the common players. Common players aren't the frequen subjects of photography by Getty contributors.

3. Even with authentication, don't expect to sell it for what you paid. The reality about common player's bats is that they are a depreciating asset (except in the rarest of circumstances). Rest assured that when you buy that $17 common bat on eBay the seller is thinking he/she just found money. Further, I cannot tell you how many times I have bought for $40 and sold for $20. That is the nature of common player collecting.

I have some hofers and many all stars in my collection but the most fun I have is collecting the common players. There is the thrill of the hunt, you can buy many even on a tight budget and there is low risk to fraud. Don't hesitate to ask the seller questions too.

Good luck with your collecting

Soxbats@aol.com

[godwulf]

If you find the obscure bat on eBay, trust me you may never see it again.

Boy, isn't that the truth!

I'm undoubtedly something of an anomoly (nice word for 'freak') in this respect, but I really get a kick out of finding a bat with my team's name inscribed on it, along with the name of a player that I have either never heard of, or who I know never played for them.

Occasionally, it will be an error bat (like the Jeter Mets bat somebody on the board had a photo of), but usually it's a guy who was in Spring Training ten years ago and never made the team, or a guy who was hired for a couple of weeks one Summer and didn't work out. (Love my Dontrelle Willis DBacks bat. Still looking for a Tom Gordon.) Those are the truly rare ones.

[godwulf]

For instance, right now I'm watching a bat of a guy who played for my team's Double-A franchise in 2010, but was in another system before that. Fortunately, it's a Rawlings, so I've asked the Seller to check the knob stampings for the bat's year of manufacture.

Any Nats collector who might be interested - there is a Kory Casto bat on eBay right now, from '08, the year he got called up. '30' on the knob.

[camarokids]

Great points guys.

Common players bats are hard to find. Just look at my wanted list. All of the bats left that I need are common players.

It took me over five years to find a Rich Butler bat. I have bought two in the past two months. Same with Terrel Lowery. Two of his have shown up recently.

If the number on the knob matches the players name on the bat. Chances are pretty darn good that he used it.

Players don't always (most players) do the exact same thing with their bats. Example: Canseco sometimes would tape a handle or just part of the handle. Sometimes no tape at all. Sometimes his number is written on the end(s), sometimes it is not.

eBay is a great source for bats.

[Klattsy]

Wow thanks so much guys. Believe it or not I actually lost sleep over this problem last night :) I should have just got up and read what everyone had posted.


For the most part, yes. I buy a ton of prospects' bats, and it would take far more money and effort to "create" most of them than I actually pay - often as little as ten or twenty dollars.

Hey, you know, it's your collection, and if having clearcut provenence, or a photo-match, on every item is what makes you happy, more power to you. Collectors are like snowflakes. Some of us are just flakier than others. :rolleyes:

OK, so i've established that I can be reasonably sure if i see a bat of my players, it is at the very least an issued bat. The problem comes, as soxbats mentioned below is WHO used it...I think I may be flakey :)



By the way, K, if you ever come across any Trent Oeltjen items from his Diamondbacks days that you personally don't want or need for your own collection, please give me a heads-up, if you happen to think about it. I'd really, really like to have one of his bats.

Also, I picked up a beautiful old silver Baseball trophy from Australia a few years back, and I've emailed all over trying to research its history, with no luck at all. If it's okay, I'd like to send you some photos, in hopes that you might know something about it, or might know somebody who would.

Jeff

godwulf1@cox.net

Jeff, send it on through! There is a forum down here that will know FOR SURE about it. I will ask there. Will keep an eye on Oeltjen items. I mentioned previously I say a Los DBacks jersey go for $154 on ebay yeah?


Is it important to you that you can prove the bat was held by the player in a game? Will the lack of that certainty spoil your enjoyment of the item? Do you want to resell your item later and need to get the best price possible? If you are answering yes to all of these, then in mho you need the authentication that comes from MLB or the team and you probably won't be happy with the undocumented eBay buy. I suggest you contact team stores and try to develop direct sources. In some cases, for the truly common player, writing to the player himself, or his agent, may work too.

1. They are often times more difficult to locate than the bats of stars. Even today, with the advent of Steiner and team sales, truly common players bats are scarce because there is no money in them, fewer are made for them, and many minor leaguers now use pro stock. If you find the obscure bat on eBay, trust me you may never see it again. This is also why you don't see many with MLB authentication.

2. People don't usually fake common player's bats. You aren't going to see Joe fraudster faking use on a Gustav Molina red sox bat on eBay. There is no money in it. Also, poor Gustav who probably got one or two orders of his own bats, is not going to be handing them around. The only question you may have is whether the use was his. My rule of thumb is look for the correct knob number, although for the truly scarce I waive this rule too. As for use characteristics, unless the player is your obsession and you tape all his at bats or dig through MLB.com, you probably aren't going to be able determine these for the common players. Common players aren't the frequen subjects of photography by Getty contributors.

Good luck with your collecting

Soxbats@aol.com

Again, thanks for the points.

I'm answering yes, yes, no to your above questions :) The fact that I am having such a hard time making this decision makes me think I really won't be happy without the paperwork or at least a photomatch.

I like your point about contacting the players directly, I was thinking this last night...A lot of my guys play in the minors so I would expect they would be reachable. MLB players though? Do clubs really pass on fan mail?

I have bolded your point re: use. This is the big thing for me. I see bats with my guys name on them, number on them, club name on them...but I still don't know. Going by your checklist I would have a rack full by now, but I just can't bring myself to pull the trigger. I *want* to but just have that niggling doubt. I wonder if that doubt would disappear once it arrived on my doorstep? :D

I decided in med at about 2am lats night that I would have to have at least a photomatch, or direction from a player, that the bat was his and used. I am chasing some good sites for minor league photos. So far I have Four Seam Images and obviously flickr/facebook, any other suggestions?

Once again, thanks all for your great points. My auctions end in 3 days so I will let you know what I end up doing...!!!

Mark.

[soxbats]

Mark shoot me an email at soxbats@aol.com