Grey Flannel Mike Schmidt Hat

[hblakewolf]

Hello Forum readers-

I'm back from vacation, and want to reply to an email I received about a Phillies hat that was recently available.

On the Grey Flannel site, they have a "Circa 1980 Mike Schmidt game worn hat" that is sold. It is a New Era brand with a grey color under the bill.

The Phillies wore Wilson brand hats from the 1940's through 1986. They changed to New Era brand in 1987. When they changed to New Era, the underside of the brim was green in color. The grey color was first introduced on these hats in 1990. I have received over 30 Phillies hats from this time period, 1987-1990, directly from my contact with the Phillies. These hats were sent to me directly after each season, thus, I am positive about the year each was worn.

I have attached a photo of my 1989 Tommy Herr gamer with the GREEN underbill. Likewise, please see my 1990 Dennis Cook with the grey underside.

I'm not sure how Grey Flannel could offer the hat in question as a "Circa 1980 Schmidt", as this New Era silver underside style was first worn by the Phillies in 1990, a season after Schmidt retired!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

GREY FLANNEL SCHMIDT "CIRCA 1980":


http://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifhttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifhttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifhttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifhttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifhttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifhttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifhttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifhttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifhttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifhttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gif(2159) Circa 1980 Mike Schmidt Philadelphia Phillies Game-Used & Auto’d Cap http://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gif
“New Era” manufactured size “7-1/2” cap. Has player number “20” written under the brim in black marker. The outer brim has been signed by the Hall of Famer in black marker rating an 8.5. The cap shows game use with dirt stains throughout and is backed by our JSA guarantee.

http://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifhttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifPRICE Sold (Pending Removalhttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gifhttp://www.greyflannel.com/images/8-12schmidtcap1.jpghttp://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gif http://www.greyflannel.com/itemGUI_detail/spacer.gif1989 Tommy Herr and 1990 Dennis Coook Phillies game hats:

1373

1374

[trsent]

What did Grey Flannel say when you questioned them about the cap?

[mr.miracle]

What did Grey Flannel say when you questioned them about the cap?


If I had to go out on a limb and venture a guess, I would think that they would have exhibited the same level of professionalism that they always do when responding to Howards questions and inquiries. :rolleyes:

Thanks
Brett Herman
brettherman2131@hotmail.com

[hblakewolf]

Brett-
As I have noted on this Forum, when I have had questions about various Grey Flannel items that are for sale, I have emailed both the owner of Grey Flannel (Richie Rusek) and their general email address. For the last 5 items I have asked questions about, I have NEVER received a response from Richie or any employee of Grey Flannel.

I just recently sent the folks at GF a question about the 1977 Steve Carlton Phillies jersey that had restorations, yet was offered as all original in their auction. Likewise, I sent an email to GF about their current Reggie Jackson Angels jersey in their auction (I have never seen a 1986 Angels Jackson home jersey such as theirs with block lettering on the back and void of a year tag in the tail. I have sold 2 1986 home Reggie's, both with vertical arch name on back, both with 86 year tagging in the tail).I had purchased quite a few 1986 angel jerseys directly from Dick Dobbins back in the late 1980's, and all had vertical arch names on back, and all had year tags, commons and stars. As of this post, I have not heard back on either jersey.

My intent with the current post was to educate the Forum readers on Phillies hats-period. The "1980 Schmidt hat" was identified on the Grey Flannel site as sold, thus, my post could not possibly have any bearing on the sale of it.

I had questions on Phillies equipment in the recent Leland's auction, and not only were my emails answered, Mike Heffner also came onto this forum and took my concerns head on. The same holds true with Vintage Auctions.

I hope this sheds light on this issue.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[mr.miracle]

Brett-
As I have noted on this Forum, when I have had questions about various Grey Flannel items that are for sale, I have emailed both the owner of Grey Flannel (Richie Rusek) and their general email address. For the last 5 items I have asked questions about, I have NEVER received a response from Richie or any employee of Grey Flannel.

I just recently sent the folks at GF a question about the 1977 Steve Carlton Phillies jersey that had restorations, yet was offered as all original in their auction. Likewise, I sent an email to GF about their current Reggie Jackson Angels jersey in their auction (I have never seen a 1986 Angels Jackson home jersey such as theirs with block lettering on the back and void of a year tag in the tail. I have sold 2 1986 home Reggie's, both with vertical arch name on back, both with 86 year tagging in the tail).I had purchased quite a few 1986 angel jerseys directly from Dick Dobbins back in the late 1980's, and all had vertical arch names on back, and all had year tags, commons and stars. As of this post, I have not heard back on either jersey.

My intent with the current post was to educate the Forum readers on Phillies hats-period. The "1980 Schmidt hat" was identified on the Grey Flannel site as sold, thus, my post could not possibly have any bearing on the sale of it.

I had questions on Phillies equipment in the recent Leland's auction, and not only were my emails answered, Mike Heffner also came onto this forum and took my concerns head on. The same holds true with Vintage Auctions.

I hope this sheds light on this issue.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net


Howard,

I could not agree more, I have followed the most recent saga of this nonsense where Grey Flannel for whatever reason will not reply to your concerns. I don't really care if you insulted the owners mother, if you are presenting legitimate questions or concerns to this company about memorabilia that they are selling, then someone should address these issues. I find it absolutely ridiculous that for whatever reason that they choose to not answer these questions especially when they might be selling something that is very questionable at best. If they really are trying to be the standard of the industry, then perhaps they can get beyond whatever petty nonsense is bothering them about you and provide explanations for items in their auction that have some level of question to them.

Brett Herman

[trsent]

Howard, I know you do not receive replies to your emails to Grey Flannel, but that does not mean every item of theirs that you question you can come onto the forum immediately and post your issues (which generally are correct) without first giving the company 24 hours to reply to your concerns about the item.

So, when do you follow the rules of Game Used Universe because no one member is above the rules?

If you had emailed Grey Flannel in advance with your questions I would have never posted anything. You have to follow the rules just like the rest of us and I do not believe you did on this one.

Oh yeah, it doesn't matter if an item has sold, if you question it you still have to contact the seller in advance and wait 24 hours before posting.

Why don't you cut and paste your original email to Grey Flannel about your concerns about this cap right here on the forum showing you emailed them 24 hours prior to making your post? Can't do it? I didn't think so...

[trsent]

Howard,

I could not agree more, I have followed the most recent saga of this nonsense where Grey Flannel for whatever reason will not reply to your concerns. I don't really care if you insulted the owners mother, if you are presenting legitimate questions or concerns to this company about memorabilia that they are selling, then someone should address these issues. I find it absolutely ridiculous that for whatever reason that they choose to not answer these questions especially when they might be selling something that is very questionable at best. If they really are trying to be the standard of the industry, then perhaps they can get beyond whatever petty nonsense is bothering them about you and provide explanations for items in their auction that have some level of question to them.

Brett Herman

Brett, do you believe every company has to communicate with every person who contacts them, even if that person has been out of line with the owner of the company? If you do not know both sides of the story, I would keep out of the discussion because Howard burned a bridge and his continued posts about Grey Flannel are in spite, even if he is correct on every item. He thinks he is getting even by putting them up for show every issue he can possibly find.

Since Howard does not bid with Grey Flannel or buy from their web site, why should they communicate with him anymore since he has insulted the owner of the company for reasons that are not relative to if they insulted Ritchie's Grandmother or Ritchie himself.

I offered for Howard to bring concerns to me to bring to them, but he turned that down. He doesn't care about his issues, he wants to post on this forum his issues to make Ritchie look bad because of their differences. They will not communicate with him, so he keeps looking for more to post.

Sounds like a fun time.

[mr.miracle]

Brett, do you believe every company has to communicate with every person who contacts them, even if that person has been out of line with the owner of the company? If you do not know both sides of the story, I would keep out of the discussion because Howard burned a bridge and his continued posts about Grey Flannel are in spite, even if he is correct on every item. He thinks he is getting even by putting them up for show every issue he can possibly find.

Since Howard does not bid with Grey Flannel or buy from their web site, why should they communicate with him anymore since he has insulted the owner of the company for reasons that are not relative to if they insulted Ritchie's Grandmother or Ritchie himself.

I offered for Howard to bring concerns to me to bring to them, but he turned that down. He doesn't care about his issues, he wants to post on this forum his issues to make Ritchie look bad because of their differences. They will not communicate with him, so he keeps looking for more to post.

Sounds like a fun time.


Joel:

I don't believe that Grey Flannel or any company has to reply directly to every person that contacts them regarding auction items; If they don't want to do business with that person. While I have no idea how many calls/emails/faxes/smoke signals/text messages etc. that Grey Flannel or any other auction house receives concerning items in their auction, I would say that it is in their best interest if they have any regard for customer service to reply to the inquiries as they come in.

I have no idea what went on between Howard and the company president nor do I care. If Howard or anyone contacts an auction house and presents genuine evidence that would suggest that items that they are selling to the public are not what they are presented to be, I would suggest that it would be in the best interest of the auction house to take a very, very close look at those items and pull them if necessary. Has Grey Flannel ever done so or are they too deeply embroiled in a pissing match with Howard to take the right steps and pull questionable items or at least explore the evidence that Howard has presented to them?

If a company is trying to do the right thing and sell only the highest quality items, then it would seem that they would look at items that are questionable. If I know Howard, I do know that he thoroughly investigates his memorabilia before making completely baseless claims about items in their auction or any other. Anytime I have contacted an auction house with questions or concerns they have gotten back to me within 24 hours. All except one and guess what, I won't do business with them. There are too many competitors out there that I won't shop with a company if they cannot take the time to reply to my questions or concerns. Kind of like any business, if they don't take care of their customers, the customer will go someplace else. With the prices that some of the items are selling for in these auctions with reserves of $10,000, I would suggest that it is irresponsible not to reply to genuine concerns. Who is going to bid on items that are questionable at 10k plus per pop if their questions are not fully answered to their complete satisfaction?

As for Howard sounding off on the forum about Grey Flannel, I am not sure, but I believe that there are similar post by Howard about other auctions and what would be termed questionable items in their auctions as well. If the forum is for education then would it not behoove Howard or any other member to post about questionable items provided he or any other member follows the protocol of the forum in regard to contacting the auction house? If they won't reply to him, then what else is he supposed to do? If he contacted them and gave them 24 hours to respond then he is well within forum rules to post regarding the nonreply and or the item in question.

While I have never had any interest in the specific items Howard has mentioned in his post regarding various auctions unless it was an item that I contacted him directly about, I would suggest that perhaps his questions on various items have saved some poor would be buyer from dumping countless thousands on an item that has some degree of question as to its authenticity.

In every business I have ever been a part of, it was the law not some fancy slogan that the customer is always right. While the customer might not be right on an items authenticity, the fact that Howard may or may not have insulted the auctions President should not influence their ability as a company to make sound business decisions regarding the merchandise that they put their name behind. As a company, you might not always like your customers but they pay the bills on put bread on the table. So I would advise not to bite the hand that feeds them.

Brett Herman
brettherman2131@hotmail.com

[Mike Grueber]

Amen, Brett. Grey Flannel needs to separate the message from the messenger when it comes to feedback provided by Howard.

The fact that problems regarding an item's authenticity were noted by one person rather than another does not make those problems less relevant. Even if Howard does have a personal vendetta against Grey Flannel, a legimitate problem with one of Grey Flannel's items is still a problem despite the fact that it was raised by Howard.

Failure to take appropriate action in response to feedback that appears to highlight legimitate problems with a given item is irresponsible and shows a lack of respect for the firm's entire customer base.



Mike Grueber

[Oil Can Dan]

I am far more concerned with the content of the persons words than the persons history. I have no problem recognizing that the history of the people involved may warrant consideration, but that consideration should never supercede the content of the post or point.

Joel, in my opinion you seem to put the history between Howard & GF above the actual content time and time again. I am sure you have your reasons, but I see no good reason to focus on whether or not Howard has sent an inquiry to the people that have ignored his five most recent inquries above the content of his post on this matter.

To summarize, here's a list of what's most important here in order of importance, IMO:

#1 - Howard has raised some good points that question the integrity of an item sold by GF.

#2 - Howard has apparently given up hope of two-way communications between himself & GF, and in turn may not have followed a rule of GUU.

This is not to say that #2 is a-okay, but it seems to me that focusing on #2 while passing right by #1 just seems wrong to me.

As for the problem of GF completely ignoring you Howard, why not compose your mails to GF about their items then have them sent in by someone else? Or send them in under an email address that cannot be associated with you. I am sure you would prefer to hear what they have to say over being ignored, and that seems like a solution that would get you there.

[both-teams-played-hard]

In all fairness to Grey Flannel, they have pulled at least 2 seperate lots(from their current auction) because of concerns raised by forum members.
I'll bash GF just as much as the next guy, but I think now they are listening to information provided by collectors, even Mr. Wolf.

[mr.miracle]

In all fairness to Grey Flannel, they have pulled at least 2 seperate lots(from their current auction) because of concerns raised by forum members.
I'll bash GF just as much as the next guy, but I think now they are listening to information provided by collectors, even Mr. Wolf.


BTPH:

And that is the bottom line. As long as Grey Flannel or any auction house listens to the concerns that potential buyers are bringing to their attention then they are doing the right thing. As Mike and Oil Can pointed out, failure to heed genuine concerns about items in their auctions is doing a complete disservice to their customer base and potential bidders. As long as they continue to pull questionable items that is the most important issue involved in this discussion period.

Mike and Oil Can, I could not have put it better myself.

Thanks
Brett

[flaco1801]

as you can see Howard has ignored a poster on this thread, he is wise beyond his years. keep up the good work. :)

[psmachetti]

This may seem too obvious ,and perhaps has been mentioned before, but wouldn't Grey Flannel be better off by doing a more thorough job ,at the outset, on their homework for the items they auction? It seems to me, in this particular instance ,that it's pretty obvious given Howard's info that the hat is not what it's purported to be. Didn't really take much homework on Howard's part to come to his conclusion. Why can't Grey Flannel put the time in? It would save them a lot of headaches. Unfortunately it seems that Grey Flannel is not willing to do the homework, which concerns me.Doesn't instill confidence in me when it comes to dealing w/ GF.
Paul

[Oil Can Dan]

GF sold that hat. They made money. It behooves them to roll along under the umbrella of "buyer beware...we do the best we can...so and so authenticated it...yada yada yada", doesn't it?

Or do you think that they read Howards email(s), thought it through, then contacted the buyer of the hat?