A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

[commando]

We all have our suspicions about McAuliffe and Sand Knit jerseys from the 1970s and early 1980s.... This SCD article from Jan. 31, 1981 has a couple of interesting quotes in regards to that issue from Murf Denny.

If you really want to educate yourself on this hobby, start digging up the info of the past. (Sorry about my wife's stray hair!)

[Baseball83]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

I thank you for this information. I am getting very frustrated with the hobby, and I have been burnt. Unfortunately, I keep hearing the same story: "We know alot more about game used jerseys than we did 5 or 10 years ago...". Regardless of these comments, there are chilling articles like the one you posted that lead me to believe that there is a very concerning trend in the hobby. The trend is that deceit is the rule not the exception. My current guideline is: if I cannot photomatch a jersey, then I avoid it. There is too much risk for my hard earned money.

[MSpecht]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

That's why you gotta love those great flannels of the 1950's of solid, but not superstar, players such as Frank Sullivan, Steve O'Neill, and Haywood Sullivan.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981


Déjà vu all over again.

Commando
Can you find the article about the former Cincinnati batboy who fabricated many baseball relics like Babe Ruth's reform school jersey and a Lou Gehrig sterling silver MVP presentation bat? All of which are fake. Does anyone know this story? I'm guessing late 80s, maybe early 90s.

[otismalibu]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

I think there are people faking jerseys of marginal players. Fly under the radar. If you have a blank that's not the correct size for the super star, then you simply find someone on the roster that fits.

In fact, I'd say this is exactly what a certain eBay seller has done for years. Volume, volume, volume.

[ironmanfan]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

Déjà vu all over again.

Commando
Can you find the article about the former Cincinnati batboy who fabricated many baseball relics like Babe Ruth's reform school jersey and a Lou Gehrig sterling silver MVP presentation bat? All of which are fake. Does anyone know this story? I'm guessing late 80s, maybe early 90s.

Yeah....I have those....If memory serves me correct, the guy's name was Geoff Wayne and those articles came out in '93 or so.......

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

Yeah....I have those....If memory serves me correct, the guy's name was Geoff Wayne and those articles came out in '93 or so.......

Yes, 3 minutes on google helped. Geoff Wayne was his alias. His government name was Randall Lee Marshall. Can't believe his name has never been mentioned on this forum. Read this link...scroll down about a quarter of the way. Juicy...

http://books.google.com/books?id=_B4DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA6&dq=randall+lee+marshall&hl=en&ei=q-mPTcb0Mo6osQP5qb2UCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=randall%20lee%20marshall&f=false

[karamaxjoe]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

I remember reading about that guy years ago. What stood out to me was the fact that he soaked his jerseys in urine and baked them in the oven. I can't imagine the odor that would create.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

I remember the whole Geoff Wayne/Randy Marshall affair, as I was subpeoaned (possible misspelling ) to testify regarding a lawsuit that was filed by a collector who was taken.

I also remember SCD doing an interview with Marshall a few years later. Marshall's secret to going so long without discovery (he was doing this in the 1980s)? He took advantage of the fledgling game used hobby in the early 1980s and, in his own words, "established himself as an expert". Not so easy to do today without the pedigree, but easy enough close to 30 years ago.

Dave Miedema

[commando]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

Yes, 3 minutes on google helped. Geoff Wayne was his alias. His government name was Randall Lee Marshall. Can't believe his name has never been mentioned on this forum. Read this link...scroll down about a quarter of the way. Juicy...
http://books.google.com/books?id=_B4...rshall&f=false

I'm glad you found that link.... I don't have any SCDs from the early 1990s at this point.

I noticed another thread discussing MEARS and their grading criteria. Shouldn't a grading company be careful when they evaluate McAuliffes and Sand Knits? In the sportscard world, most well-known authenticators will not grade "Star Company" basketball cards from the 1980s because they were reprinted. Unless a McAuliffe Red Sox Fisk jersey has some great provenance, should an evaluator even offer an opinion (other than it came from the factory?)

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

I'm glad you found that link.... I don't have any SCDs from the early 1990s at this point.

I noticed another thread discussing MEARS and their grading criteria. Shouldn't a grading company be careful when they evaluate McAuliffes and Sand Knits? In the sportscard world, most well-known authenticators will not grade "Star Company" basketball cards from the 1980s because they were reprinted. Unless a McAuliffe Red Sox Fisk jersey has some great provenance, should an evaluator even offer an opinion (other than it came from the factory?)

I agree. Wilson and Rawlings made salesman samples without NOBs in the late 70s-80s, which could easily be altered. Fast forward to the NBA Champions of the early 90s and the "Pro-cuts" of today.

Also, I have all of the original Star cards of the mid 80s that I bought from mail order in the mid 80s. The re-pressings from the Star Co. made them near worthless. Of course they weren't counterfeits, beacause they were re-made by the company.

[Baseball83]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

I agree that provenance is paramount. But with all of the doctoring that everyone is mentioning, there is no substitute for photomatch. My concern moving forward is that there are the unscrupulous that are even forging "photomatched" items. The forensic component of collecting game worn jerseys is beyond the scope of fun in the hobby. Unfortunately at the prices that people are asking for these items, the I am shifting the burdon to the seller to prove it first. Business as usual will not work with me anymore.

[commando]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

Photomatching is great when possible, but not easy for vintage jerseys. Something that collectors don't do much anymore is to wear their game-used jerseys. But in the 1970s and 80s, it was common to see countless people at card shows and ball games wearing actual game-used knit jerseys. As a matter of fact, up until the mid-1980s, game-used flannels were often less expensive than newer knits because the flannels weren't as comfortable to wear by the fans!

[BrewCrewSackers]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

I think fake gu bats are even easier. Just buy a issued bat and do 5 min of research online and sell it on this site.

[Baseball83]

Re: A Chilling Quote from Murf Denny in 1981

What I am happier with is some of the newer approaches that some organizations and companies have adopted. For instance, when I buy a jersey from Meigray or MLB, I look for a specific game that I can identify when the jersey was used. The provenance is impeccable and a photomatch is usually possible. Unless the jersey passes these two tests, then I stay away.