1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

[Krsoneus]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110676263047&category=60597&_trksid=p5197.c0.m619

The starting price on this one, I think, is a very good deal if its legit. But I am unsure. Mile High's last auction had a Henderson jersey from 81 made by Wilson and it had provenance, whereas the ebay one is a McAuliffe.

http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=18892&searchby=3&searchvalue=rickey&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1&seo=1981-Rickey-Henderson-Oakland-A

The 5 on the back looks different on the McAuliffe, and the sleeve stripes look wider on the Mile High - Wilson jersey which seems to match better with the Getty picture I have here.




Curious to see if people think he may have wore both brands that year, or if one is likely a sample.
Thanks

[lon lewis]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

Krsoneus, The reason for the differences in the sleeves and the number 5 is that they're made by 2 different mfrs. McAuliffe A's jerseys had trim sewn to the top of the sleeve end. The jersey in your photo ( presumably Wilson) has a cuff which is sewn to the sleeve end. The numbers are the same story- the McAuliffe A's knit jerseys had back numbers styled after numbers used on Giants flannels while the numbers on the Wilson jerseys are the standard Wilson full block numbers. FYI the last year that McAuliffe ( actually Stall and Dean ) produced the A's jerseys was 1980. If you have the time you should look at the McAuiffe information section of this forum.

[bronx_burner]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

I'm curious here Lon. You have 1980 as the last year for McAuliffe A's jerseys. Reading your response, it is my understanding that this 1981 ebay jersey should not be considered correct (correct me please if I read this wrong). While I find Bill Henderson's guide slightly confusing, it seems that he has them lasting longer than that.

But putting that aside, one other way I noticed to identify the Wilson home A's jerseys from the McAuliffe is the neck trim. The Wilsons tend to have a thin yellow line between two larger green lines. The McAuliffes tend to have relatively even thicknesses for all three.

That said I was looking at 1982 Donruss cards of the A's. Henderson is shown in what appears to be a McAuliffe jersey (see below). Now its possible that it could be an older photo used for the card. However, looking at cards of Cliff Johnson and Fred Stanley, the photos could only be from 81 for the 82 cards as 81 was each players first season with Oakland. They both appear to be wearing McAuliffe as well. Looking further, I found Jim Spencer who also first played for Oakland in 81 and he appears to be wearing a Wilson home jersey. All three are additionally posted below. And going through cards of other players from the 1982 cards, there seems to be a mix of both types, leading me to believe it was likely a transition year and that they wore home jerseys from both Wilson and McAuliffe in 1981.

I highly value your opinion, Lon and was wondering what your thoughts were on this jersey based on this information.

[Danny899]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

I have a 1980 Rickey Henderson jersey that is a McAuliffe and 2 of his jerseys from 1981 that are made by Wilson. Each are a different style. All the years I've been collecting Rickey Henderson gamers, I don't recall seeing any McAuliffe's after 1980. But it is still quite possible that they wore both, possibly one brand for a road and another for a home or alternate. I will try to check further.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

bronx burner:

It's (at least to me) quite possible there were McAuliffe unies worn in 1981, but they may not have been ISSUED in 1981...i.e., 1980 (or older) jerseys recycled or pulled from the storage room for use. Oakland was not adverse to name and number changing jerseys in that era, nor were they adverse to using a given season's jerseys in a later year. That's my take...more input is welcomed.

Dave Miedema

[bronx_burner]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

Duly noted Dave. Certainly seems plausible. There are an awful lot of 1982 cards featuring what appear to be McAuliffe jerseys so that would be very frugal of them but not something I would doubt. If that is/was the case, then this 1981 tagged jersey should not be legit. What throws me off on this jersey is the Henderson autograph. It appears to be legitimate, but also appears to be an early example of his signature which leads me to believe it was signed not later than 83ish. His signature began to change a bit around then. Makes me lean a little more toward it being legit. But then I guess its hard to be sure. I am having difficulty seeing the wear the seller states is there considering Henderson stole 100 bases sliding headfirst in 81.

[lon lewis]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

Bronx, I'll put this as simply as I can- The Last year McAuliffe/Stall and Dean produced the A's jerseys was 1980- this was according to Richard Stall former owner of Stall and Dean. When the Finley ownership ended, so did the A's relationship with Stall and Dean. No amount of Donruss cards or Henderson guides is going to change that.

[cohibasmoker]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

Below is a link to another 1981 Henderson jersey:

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=30578

Jim

[CollectGU]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

Bronx, I'll put this as simply as I can- The Last year McAuliffe/Stall and Dean produced the A's jerseys was 1980- this was according to Richard Stall former owner of Stall and Dean. When the Finley ownership ended, so did the A's relationship with Stall and Dean. No amount of Donruss cards or Henderson guides is going to change that.

Lon,

No offense, but this response does absolutely nothing to address the issues raised especially when you consider photgraphice evidence provided that they were wearing McAuliffe. How reliable is what you have been told if my eyes show me different? This comes across close minded...

Dave

[WadeInBmore]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

Dave,

I think what Lon, and others, are trying to say is that the McAuliffe jerseys were no longer made for the A's as of 1980. It is possible that they (the a's) recycle old jerseys into newer and current seasons though (ie 1981 1982).

Also, let's not forget too, that baseball cards aren't always the picture of truth that we want them to be, as there is no telling what year the actual pictures on the cards were taken and if any "editing" has been done to them before printing.

That's my take on things. I've found this thread very interesting and educational and wanted to chime in. Both Lon and Dave M have been doing this longer than I've been alive (30 years!) so I always tend to value, trust, and respect their thoughts and opinions. Lon seems to have a line on the business relationships and if those ceased after the 1980 season then that only limits the possible options/solutions.

Wade

[karamaxjoe]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

Lon,

No offense, but this response does absolutely nothing to address the issues raised especially when you consider photgraphice evidence provided that they were wearing McAuliffe. How reliable is what you have been told if my eyes show me different? This comes across close minded...

Dave

Dave,

What photographic evidence have we seen of an A's tagged 1981 McAuliffe jersey on the back of a player? We've only seen jerseys that have been worn for an extra season without knowing how they were tagged. I'd say Lon's source is about as good as it gets on this issue. You also have to take into account the issue with McAuliffe selling tagged jerseys to whoever wanted one.

[bronx_burner]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

I think what Lon, and others, are trying to say is that the McAuliffe jerseys were no longer made for the A's as of 1980. It is possible that they (the a's) recycle old jerseys into newer and current seasons though (ie 1981 1982).

Also, let's not forget too, that baseball cards aren't always the picture of truth that we want them to be, as there is no telling what year the actual pictures on the cards were taken and if any "editing" has been done to them before printing.

That's my take on things. I've found this thread very interesting and educational and wanted to chime in. Both Lon and Dave M have been doing this longer than I've been alive (30 years!) so I always tend to value, trust, and respect their thoughts and opinions. Lon seems to have a line on the business relationships and if those ceased after the 1980 season then that only limits the possible options/solutions.

As far as baseball cards not always telling the truth, that of course is true, which is pretty much why I referenced Fred Stanley, Cliff Johnson and Jim Spencer as those photos on those 1982 cards could only be from the 1981 season for those particular players as it was the only year they played for the A's as of the time the cards were released. And the cards do show 2 of them wearing McAuliffe (Stanley and Johnson) and Spencer wearing Wilson.

That said, given the recycling practices the A's were apt to at the time, the way I interpret Lon's response is that the McAuliffe jerseys in those photos would be assumed to be recycled/reused from earlier years, and that A's jerseys with a 1981 year tag were not produced for game use by the A's.

That leads me to further deduce the implication that the Henderson jerseys (both the one currently on eBay and the older Legendary/Mastro listing) would both fall into the category of blanks ordered by someone later in the 80's (as per Lon's subforum on McAuliffe jerseys).

I will admit that I don't fully understand how that system worked, but I imagine that the way people ordered these jerseys in the 80s was ordering a blank jersey by size and specifying the year tags they wanted on the Jerseys with their orders and then doing the numbering/lettering themselves. Again I'm not certain that is it as the receipts/invoices shown in the McAuliffe subforum do not contain all that information but its my best guess.

[karamaxjoe]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

I will admit that I don't fully understand how that system worked, but I imagine that the way people ordered these jerseys in the 80s was ordering a blank jersey by size and specifying the year tags they wanted on the Jerseys with their orders and then doing the numbering/lettering themselves. Again I'm not certain that is it as the receipts/invoices shown in the McAuliffe subforum do not contain all that information but its my best guess.

Lon did say in the McAullife thread that people could order exact duplicates of team issued jerseys with names, lettering, tags and everything else. I'm not sure if you could specify the year of the tag, but everything else came with it. Maybe the year on the tag represented the year the jersey was purchased? Maybe Lon could shed some light on that question. I'm guessing the common person really didn't care about the year tag back then since these jerseys were not nearly as valuable back then as they potentially are today.

[bronx_burner]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

That sounds plausible to me. I just was unclear on it. Which would then make it as basic as someone ordered a Henderson named and numbered Jersey straight from Stall and Dean sometime in the 80s with a 1981 year tag, be it ordered in 81 or later (if you could in fact specify the year you wanted).

Either way, unless I am misunderstanding, I'm still taking it to mean any 1981 tagged A's McAuliffe branded jersey could not have been worn in a game by the A's.

[Krsoneus]

Re: 1981 Rickey Henderson Jersey on Ebay

Thanks to Lon, and everyone for the information, its always extremely helpful to me to here everyone else's opinion on a gamer like this one.