tage question?

[Lengthwise]

if a jersey has tags like this, on ewouldthink its game used correct?

[Lengthwise]

if a jersey has tags like this, on ewouldthink its game used correct?

or issued?

[suave1477]

Is that Darryl Strawberrys Jersey?

[Lengthwise]

Is that Darryl Strawberrys Jersey?

it is, not being sold a such, just seemed odd to have all the proper tagging, guessing its and unused one, so issued?

[suave1477]

ok im a bit confused of your question. There isnt a difference in tagging if its Game Used or Game Issued that just means one has been worn and the other hasn't.
Where did you get the Strawberry Jersey from?
I notice there is also an extra tag on it what does it say?

[Lengthwise]

the tag says 1" extra length, I dont own it(yet), but I may go after it, just curious on ooinions from here, its is not being sold as game used or issued, the tagging just seemed very interesting to me

[kingjammy24]

unfortunately, it's impossible to determine whether a jersey is game-issued/game-worn solely from the tagging. it's like seeing a photo of a car's tires and being asked "is the car any good".
you'll need to post pictures of the front and back of the jersey in order to derive any sort of meaningful opinion.

rudy.

[Lengthwise]

I know, they are not that great, here is what I have access to, thanks guys!!!!

[suave1477]

The Jersey does look good to me

[kingjammy24]

my thoughts:

- it's a little atypical that the flag tag and strip tag both bear identical information. (they both bear the year and set). if you're going to have a tag with the year and set, why duplicate that information again on another tag? it's redundant.

on rawlings jerseys of this era, full strip tags with the year and set are usually present on jerseys that lack the standard flag tag and thus need some way to bear year/set information. (although a lack of a flag tag can be cause for alarm, i've seen some legit rawlings jerseys from this era that lack them.) conversely, on jerseys that have the standard flag tag, you'll rarely see an additional strip tag showing the same information in duplicate. strip tags on jerseys with standard flag tags usually just have the uniform number.

so the tagging is a little atypical.

- what i think is of greater concern is the fact that ami has auctioned off 2 other 1990, strawberry, home pinstripe v-neck pullovers, autographed, and tagged identically to this one. all of them are clearly different jerseys (the autographs are in different places) yet they're all tagged identically - set 1 1990, standard flag tag AND full strip tag. not only that but all of them show minimal use. to me, this rings of a scoreboard jersey. slightly odd tagging, numerous identical copies, superstar player in his prime, autographed, minimal use, around the 1989/1990 time period that scoreboard jerseys come from. i'm strongly inclined to suggest this is a scoreboard jersey.

here are the 2 others that ami auctioned off:

www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=9183 (http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=9183)

www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=14680 (http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=14680)

you seem to have found a third. 3 home strawberry jerseys, all set 1, yet none show substantial use. i'd bet there are more out there.

secondly, if you're curious about how a certain jersey should look, often one of the best things to do is to look at a common player from that year. take this 1990 mel stottlemyre home v-neck:

www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=20714 (http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=20714)

rudy.

[Lengthwise]

thank you for the info, anyone have any more info on scoreboard jerseys, I am unfamiliar with them

[kingjammy24]

here is a thread on scoreboard jerseys:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=3924

long story short, they were non-game issued/non-game worn jerseys that were sold to the public simply as autographed jerseys by a company called scoreboard. the funny thing is that many were often done quite well - almost perfect specs, right down to the pro-style tagging. they bore a striking resemblance to legit gamers even if they were never sold as such. years later, they're popping up as gamers.

rudy.

[suave1477]

Its funny you point that out KingJammy I do beleive also in the last auction GreyFlannel also sold a Darryl Strawberry Game Used 90 set 1 Jersey autographed. I dont know how to look into there past auctions but if someone else can find it I remember it being sold with a Gooden Jersey.

[Eric]

http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/lotimages/722_b.jpg
http://www.greyflannelauctions.com/lotimages/722_t.jpg


1988 Dwight Gooden Road & 1990 Darryl Strawberry Home Game-Used & Autographed Jerseys (2) (JSA)
Lot # 474

On the inside right front tail of the grey knit pullover, Dwight Gooden jersey is the "Rawlings" manufacturer's tag with the jersey size "44" and wash instructions on it. Attached to that are two additional manufacturer's tags with "SET 1 1988" and a strip tag that reads "88 16 44" in blue stitch. Across the front of the jersey is "NEW YORK." On the back of the jersey is the player number "16." Across the back of the jersey is "GOODEN" sewn directly on the jersey. All lettering and numbering is done in blue on orange on white triple tackle twill. On the inside left front tail of the home Darryl Strawberry, pinstripe pullover is the "Rawlings" manufacturer's tag with the jersey size "44" and wash instructions on it. Attached to that are three additional manufacturer's tags with "SET 1 1990," "1 INCH EXTRA LENGTH," and a strip tag that reads "90 1 18" in blue stitch. Across the front of the jersey is "METS." Below on the left and on the back of the jersey is the player number "18." Across the back of the jersey is "STRAWBERRY" sewn directly on the jersey. All lettering and numbering is done in blue on orange tackle twill. The jersey is autographed on front in blue marker and rates an 8. Both jerseys show wear and there appear to be no alterations of any kind. Accompanied by a LOA from James Spence Authentication.
Reserve Price: $250

Current Bid: $1,516

Current Time: May 11, 2006 08:01:26 PM

[suave1477]

Eric thanks for the help. Actually its a 1988 tagged Jersey I thought it was a 1990, but thanks again Eric

[Eric]

no, you were right- the strawberry is a set 1 1990
Eric

[suave1477]

Whoops your right as I am right. I glanced at it and saw the Gooden Tag. Well then my point stands there are 3 possibly 4 1990 set 1 Strawberry Jerseys floating around out there as Gamers.

I am starting to notice a trend of the 1990 Season. Is it possible Scoreboard made quite a few different players Jerseys to the Correct specifications. If so I am starting to think to stay away from any 1990 Jersey cuz just the possibility of it being a Scoreboard Jersey scares me.

Here are noted Scoreboard Jersey Players. Also these particular players had Very ood Seasons in 1989 and 1990. Can anyone else think of any other player Scoreboard may have duplicated?

Bo Jackson
Ken Griffey Jr.
Darryl Strawberry - POSSIBLY

[metsbats]

There's also seems to be a large amount of Gregg Jefferies 1990 jersey's out there too.

-David

[suave1477]

Metsbats good job, Gregg Jeffries had a good 1990 season also I believe.
Metsbats can you point out where you have seen some of the Gregg Jeffries 1990 Jerseys?

[trsent]

Rudy,

I do believe that some teams in this era did have redundant tagging from Rawlings on there jerseys.

Here is an example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Game-Worn-Jersey-National-League-89-Rookie-of-The-Year_W0QQitemZ250023206016QQihZ015QQcategoryZ73421 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Game-Worn-Jersey-National-League-89-Rookie-of-The-Year_W0QQitemZ250023206016QQihZ015QQcategoryZ73421 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[RobSteinmetz]

Joel,

Good catch. The Cubs were the kings of redundancy in the late 1980's.

[hblakewolf]

Rob-
The Phillies did the same type of tagging with their Rawlings pants in 1987-1991. Although the standard Rawlings tag was present with the size, they also incorporated an embroidered strip tag to the right with the player's uniform #, waist size, inseam, year/set and then also added the usual white flag tag with the year and set AGAIN!

FYI

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[Lengthwise]

Metsbats good job, Gregg Jeffries had a good 1990 season also I believe.
Metsbats can you point out where you have seen some of the Gregg Jeffries 1990 Jerseys?

there was one on ebay about a month ago, it was not being sold as game used, it was tagged 90 set 1 I believe

[TNTtoys]

I too have one of those Gregg Jeffries 1990 set 1 jerseys. The likeness to the real deal is absolutely uncanny. There is no wear whatsoever, so I thought it was "game issued" -- I originally thought I was getting the bargain of the century, paying only about $80 for it... but when I started seeing more and more of them, I thought otherwise... I have literally seen about a half a dozen come through ebay in the past year or two. I am happy to know that they are more than likely Scoreboard jerseys. I wouldn't want to have to find out that my "prized" jersey is a fake.

[suave1477]

TnT You said your glad to know its a scoreboard Jersey and not a fake?????

Scoreboard Jerseys are replicas. They may not be bootlegged Jerseys but they are not authentic!!! They were Jerseys made for autograph signings.

[trsent]

TnT You said your glad to know its a scoreboard Jersey and not a fake?????

Scoreboard Jerseys are replicas. They may not be bootlegged Jerseys but they are not authentic!!! They were Jerseys made for autograph signings.

What makes a jersey an "authentic"?

The jersey was made by Rawlings, similar to what makes a Mitchell & Ness jersey not an "authentic"? They are authentically made jerseys with proper tagging, just the Rawlings jerseys do not have tagging to let you know if they were made a year later or as extras.

Needless to say, the issue here is what does the term "authentic" really mean because it is a loosely defined word?

[kingjammy24]

joel, rob, & howard,

good info. there are always some oddities out there. i wonder if those strip tags on the 80's cubs jerseys were done by a local shop rather than rawlings?

cleveland indians' rawlings jerseys in the early 90's lacked a standard rawlings flag tag. instead they had a strip tag denoting the year and set. for some reason, it seemed cleveland preferred the info to be displayed via strip tag and chose not to have the flag tags. on the jersey order forms, i believe a team could specify what information they wanted displayed and how it should be displayed. i think rawlings affixed their generic flag tag on most pro jerseys simply because it was basic, standard info info that was wanted by most teams.

eric & suave: nice catch on the 4th 1990 set 1, autographed strawberry.
eric is there a way you can peruse previous grey flannel auctions?
suave, add jose canseco to the list. the scoreboard cansecos were home jerseys, autographed, tagged as "2 90". i also suspect scoreboard did some nolan ryan, rawlings, home jerseys tagged "34 1 1989".

lengthwise: given that in only 2 days, 4 of these jerseys have been found, all identical and with minimal use, it seems that if you're in the market for a strawberry jersey, you might want to avoid 1990 home v-necks.

rudy.

[Eric]

eric & suave: nice catch on the 4th 1990 set 1, autographed strawberry.
eric is there a way you can peruse previous grey flannel auctions?

You can't do it through the grey flannel website. I did it thru google

I typed in Strawberry "Grey Flannel"

When the results come up, click on "cached" instead of the link and it will take you to the web page that used to exist.

This also has worked for american memorabilia auction listings which i could no longer find in their archives

Eric

[cbb5]

I tend to agree with Rudy on this one. I have seen the following examples of 1990 Mets jerseys:
Without year/set tag BUT with strip tagging
With year/set tag BUT with no strip tagging

[trsent]

Here is a list of known or believed Scoreboard style jerseys:

1990 Greg Jefferies
1989 Nolan Ryan
1990 Jose Canseco
1989 Bo Jackson
1989 Ken Griffey Jr.

Can anyone add any to this list?

[suave1477]

As we said 1990 Darryl Strawberry set 1

4 of them have been noted to be floating around we can be safe to assume 3 of them are Scoreboard!!!:rolleyes:

[TNTtoys]

cbb5 - the middle tag you displayed is identical to my Jefferies 'Scoreboard' jersey

suave1477 - I was clarifying that I am happy that I have a scoreboard jersey and not a fake. By fake, I wasn't meaning 'not game worn' but simply 'not pirated.' I'm happy to know that it was made by Rawlings to the exact spec of the team (textured lettering, etc...unlike the Mitchell and Ness "authentics" which really aren't all that authentic when you get down to the basic materials used) and not a pirated knockoff much like the M&N look-alikes that are cropping up everywhere (and yes, I do mean look-alike in a loosest sense!!). Considering that I paid only $80, I would have paid more than double for a retail authentic and probably would have received lesser quality (for example look at the Majestic retail authentic '86 style Mets thtowbacks that are selling for $189 each)...
No, I didn't get a game issued for dirt cheap, but did get a nice buy on a real Rawlings retail authentic, which isn't half bad.

[suave1477]

TnT I can agree with you there.

But I do disagree with you about Mitchell and Ness Jerseys as far as the ones I seen in hand compared to what the actual game worns are they are pretty close. Escpecially in comparison to the 1986 Majestic Throwback - The actual style they used is from I beleive 88 and up.

Mitchell and Ness 1986 Mets throwback has the Pinstripes stitched down the Jersey as the Origianl Game Worns did.

Majestic 1986 Mets throwbacks has the Pinstripes printed down as they did in 88 and later.

[TNTtoys]

Suave - I have about 20 M&Ns in my collection. The jersey material is sometimes different than the original. For example, the Mets 88 BP jersey (usually comes either #16 or #18) is much thinner, as is the racing stripes. Also the Mets 88 Road (usually #4 Dykstra) has different texture tackle twill material letters. The Rawlings retail authentics of the time got it right and were much more accurate than the M&N reproductions.
I agree that M&N makes a quality jersey, but sometimes has the wrong material. That hasn't stopped me from buying them -- I particularly LOVE the 79 Phillies (Tour of Japan) Schmidt, the 81 (cream) Astros Nolan Ryan and the 83 (royal blue alternate) Tom Seaver to name a few...

[suave1477]

Tnt I have about 10 M&N'S in my collection, I do understand what your saying I beleive I myself have notice 1 mateirial off on a Jersey or 2, but I still think they come the closet with best quality matierials that you can use for those items. When you look at them sitting on a hanger you can see the difference in quality between your average retail Majestic Jersey in a store and a Mitchell & Ness.

[kingjammy24]

the strawberry jersey that lengthwise originally posted has now shown up in vintage authentics. too bad he didn't post the ebay link. at any rate, the signature and pinstripes confirm it's the same jersey.

http://vintageauthentics.at.truition.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=77250322&prmenbr=57735959&aunbr=77597032

rudy.

[TNTtoys]

Wow... this thread is a blast from the past. I have a couple of new Mitchell and Ness tidbits to share with the forum...

They put out a handful of new jerseys this year. One of which I believe is heads and tails above the rest -- the 1977 Rod Carew Twins blue road jersey. Photos cannot do this one justice -- you need to see it in person to understand what I mean by this jersey is about the best work they have done in a long time. And the beauty is due to the couple of wholesalers that have direct contracts with M&N, you can probably pick up one of these for about 1/3 the price on the website. I literally bought mine for $100 from one of the wholesalers, and was able to get my size with no problem (46). In the past, smaller sizes were very hard to come by if you went the wholesale route -- they were always able to get good money for the 46s, 48s, etc. that they only looked to 'bargain bin' the 52s & higher.

M&N also are starting to make prices a little more reasonable if you buy from their website. Jerseys that were once priced at $300-375 are now in the ballpark of $250. Although they are moving in the right direction, this too is a bit much for the average joe, so they have made another move to reduce prices. They have started the "All Access" club and are offering this to current customers. This enables M&N patrons 50% discounts on select jerseys. For example, an "All Access" member can now buy a 1970s style San Diego Padres jersey on the M&N website for $150.00. This kind of discount applies to a few jerseys at a time (probably ones they have overstocked), and they did tell me that they plan to rotate the jerseys that they are offering the special price with... so the one you might be interested in could go on sale for $150 sometime in the future.
Of course, if you don't want to wait (because it may not happen at all for the one you are interested in), there are other merchants with selling contracts with M&N that offer the same jerseys at anywhere from 20 and 35% savings from the listed price on the website. This might be a good alternative too.