I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

[nesportspromotions]

Hi Guys,

I purchased a pair of 2006 David Ortiz “game used” jerseys. One home and one road. I purchased the jerseys directly from one of Big Papi's Dominican friends. (FYI: He was on TV with Ortiz during the Homerun Derby at the 2006 All-Star game.)

The thing I'm SURE of is the autographs on both are 100% real. (Autographs are my field of expertise not GAME USED.)

So I showed both jerseys to my buddy and he said the tags on the seams inside of the jerseys have the wrong number.

Does anyone else know what the tagging on 2006 Majestic Game Used jerseys is supposed to look like?


Here's the front tagging and why I thought they were real:



Here's what's throwing the whole thing off:



Specifically THESE numbers:



HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[whatupyos]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Hello,

From what I understand the inside tag code for most game used jerseys by majestic as of the last few years should read 0062 instead of 6200. Usually 6200 means its a retail jersey and 0062 would be a team manufactured jersey. Not in all cases though, because I have learned there might be a few teams that use the 6200 code for game jerseys, however, I don't know if the Red Sox is one of those teams. This is the informaiton I have gathered. I could be wrong, so I welcome anyone to either support me or give new information or correct me if I am wrong.

Maybe there is a Red Sox expert out there?

[trsent]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

The jerseys look real to me, the only problem is the "6200" tagging. It looks like the other strip tagging is all original. Maybe Ortiz ordered these on his own? Where else would someone come up with the correct strip tag for an Ortiz jersey? I would say the jerseys look good and request the guy who sold them to you sign a letter stating his relationship with David Ortiz.

[hblakewolf]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

A fellow Forum reader was selling a handful of 2006 Red Sox game jerseys here a few months ago. I purchased the home Ortiz. It has the same exact strip tag under the Majestic tag, however, has the standard 0062 code. Personally, I would not touch a Majestic superstar jersey with a 6200 tag unless it had a team LOA that specifically noted the 6200 code, showed a ton of use and noted that it was worn for the 2006 season.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[nesportspromotions]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Hey Howard,

Do me a favor...

Can you look CLOSELY between the Majestic Tag and the white strip tag. See if there is a small tag that says "54" on it. (You probably can't see the "54" b/c it's stitched over.) On the ones I have, the strip tag sewn right over the small regular old size tag. You might have to kind of bend the two tags so they spread apart a little.

(Please don't tell me your is framed. LOL!)

Thanks so much!

[hblakewolf]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

It actually is framed! It's in my wife's practice, however, I'll try to stop by and remove it from the display case. Give me a few days.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[dcrules01]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

I have about 6 game issued jerseys fot different teams.They all have the 0062 tag . But from reading threads on here they say some game worn jerseys do carry the 6200 tag wheather its a Majestic error or thats what the player requested.Im no expert far from it.Just wanted to share..

[kingjammy24]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

re: the 6200 code. although intended for retail, they've been known to make it into clubhouses and used in games. however, much like early rawlings jerseys missing a flag tag, i'd want some team provenance if i was going for a 6200. i don't think a 6200 automatically and conclusively means it couldn't have been game used. i just think it's less likely than a 0062. as such, as howard said, you'd want some team provenance and legit game use.

personally, i think the bigger issue illustrated here is the problem in players ordering items solely for the purpose of reselling them for profit. as soon as i saw mention of "big papi's dominican friends" i had nauseous flashbacks of griffey jr unloading truckloads of stuff to his childhood friends so they could make some extra cash. the details are foggy in my memory but i recall his friends treating the arrangement like a bottomless atm machine. griffey was the biggest thing going during the early-mid 90s and his friends had no shortage of buyers more than willing to hand over cash for the items. (i'm sure his friends reported all of the income/gifts on their taxes). it was a win-win for almost everyone; griffey was fattening the pockets of his friends/entourage rich at little to no cost to himself. the only ones not making out were the buyers; it's difficult to imagine that all of the bats were actually used by griffey. as quickly as he could order them, his friends could sell them. although griffey wasn't the only one deliberately flooding the market, i doubt this practice was at the level it is now.

you'd think that the best place to get an item would be directly from the player. this is only true if the player didn't intentionally and artificially inflate the supply of his items. there's clearly a difference in the items coming from a player who's simply clearing out his garage after 4 yrs and those coming from a player who's running a second business to subsidize half the population of his island hometown. if a player said he orders boxes of jerseys, they're all perfectly tagged and coded and that he sells them without actually wearing them, then how desireable is player provenance in that case? i'd say it's worthless.

there's a good chance that joel is right when said that ortiz may have ordered these. what does that really mean though? is it at all likely that manny ramirez didn't inform his good friend ortiz about how to make thousands for his friends and family simply by ordering and selling unworn jerseys? if ortiz ordered them, then the jerseys should look good. as for joel's suggestion that you obtain a letter from one of big papi's friends, i have to wonder about the real value of such a letter. would it read: "big papi gives me a box of jerseys to sell every 2 months. he has them sent straight from the factory to my home. he does this with 4 other friends. this jersey is from one of those boxes"?

everyone wants to ride the gravy train and it's making certain player provenance worthless. griffey, ramirez, ortiz, and arod are a few that come to mind.

in many cases, i much prefer team provenance. it's far less likely for a team to engage in this sort of questionable behavior. maybe i'm wrong but i have trouble seeing a team's merchandising/retail sales department deliberately engaging in a campaign to mass-order items and intentionally misrepresent them for the sake of profit. what "big papi's dominican friends" do in their private time may be another matter.

as for this particular ortiz jersey, who knows. nesports, although a 6200 isn't promising, it doesn't automatically mean the item is bad. does the jersey show any wear?

rudy.

[stkmtimo]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Rudy - great post and I agree fully. I also find the fact that his "Domincan friends" were selling his stuff. You really have to wonder where this stuff comes from. On second thought, you don't. It's unfortunate, but we know where it comes from.

I don't think we can write this jersey off. Rob Steinmetz writes on tagging sometimes on his website.

Check this out:

http://authenticgamers.com/Water%20Cooler.html

Good luck,
Tim

[sandman02910]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Just wanted to add that I own a 2006 Jonathan Papelbon game used home jersey which has the same type of strip tagging as your Ortiz but has the 0062 wash tag inside.
Thanks
Scott

[kingjammy24]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

previous NYDAILYNEWS article from 2004:

"... San Diego-based FBI agent Tim Fitzsimmons says athletes are no more reliable than anyone else when it comes to memorabilia. "People need to do their own due diligence," says Fitzsimmons, who has been a part of major investigations into memorabilia fraud. "Just because something comes with a letter of authenticity doesn't mean it's authentic."

Mutzabaugh learned that lesson the hard way. Soon after he bought his Palmeiro gear through Clearwater, Fla.-based Authentic Sports Investments, he discovered that the helmet, shoes, bat and batting gloves ASI had certified as real weren't even used in the 500-home run game. The company insisted the Palmeiro stuff was as-advertised even though Mutzabaugh provided photos and a video he says prove it wasn't. After a frustrating 10-month series of phone calls, e-mails and letters, the company exchanged the Palmeiro gear for for Sammy Sosa memorabilia. "You don't know if this stuff is real or not," says Mutzabaugh, a U.S. Navy master chief.

ASI president Scot Monette acknowledges the company had to exchange Mutzabaugh's purchase, and he says it is taking steps to eliminate the problems that mar his scandal-stained industry. The company, for example, is creating a Web site for Alex Rodriguez that will allow collectors to verify items through its online database. "It's a very labor-intensive process but we've made that commitment because Alex is very committed to guaranteeing authenticity for his fans," Monette says.

Collectors, though, are taking a wait-and-see approach. Former Yankee Ruben Rivera was booted from the team in 2002 after he gave Derek Jeter's glove and bat to an associate of ASI, and the company's reputation in memorabilia circles is mixed at best. Mutzabaugh says he won't trust ASI's efforts.

"The fox," Mutzabaugh says, "is watching the chicken coop."

Before the late '80s, most baseball players got through the season with a handful of jerseys and two or three mitts. They used bats until they cracked or lost their pop. They may have kept or sold equipment that had historic or sentimental value. The rest was donated to charity, given to kids or tossed in the trash.

Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco, then teammates on the Oakland A's, were the first to sell and market their game-used gear, Evans says. Other budding superstars - including Ken Griffey Jr., Sammy Sosa and A-Rod - soon followed.

Demand quickly outstripped supply. Fans in North America and Japan showed they were willing to spend thousands of dollars for a glove or jersey from their favorite players; card companies buy game-used gear by the truckload, then cut it up and insert it into popular and pricy special edition collections.

"Ken Griffey Jr. got into it to help out his buddies, the guys he went to school with. He gave them the stuff and they sold it. It was a way to allow his friends and family to share his wealth," says Josh Evans, chairman of Lelands.com, an auction house. "The first wave of stuff was great. It was obvious he had that stuff for a long time. But then stuff started coming out that really didn't look game-used."

Rodriguez was another player who let his pals handle his memorabilia. "It was a good way for a young player to do business," A-Rod says. "There was great interest in it."

A group of his friends - known in the industry as "the muchachos" - soon became the primary source for A-Rod game-used jerseys, gloves, bats and other items. But seasoned collectors soon started to question A-Rod offerings - the muchachos, they say, did not seem interested in properly tracking and labeling his gear. Two years ago, for example, ASI offered a white A-Rod autographed Texas jersey from the game in which he hit his third and fourth home runs of the 2002 season. When Ed Schauder checked photos from MLB.com game archives, he saw that the Rangers had worn blue jerseys for that game. "That's why you have to conduct your own due diligence," says Schauder. "That's why I do my own research before I buy anything."

Other collectors are leery of A-Rod gloves. The All-Star infielder has long favored the Rawlings Pro-6HF model, a tan mitt with an H-shaped web, but other models have flooded the market, raising eyebrows.

ASI consigns some of its memorabilia to American Memorabilia.com, and earlier this month, the auction house sold a Rawlings Pro-AR3, autographed and signed "game-used" by Rodriguez, for $7,200. American Memorabilia advertised the mitt as A-Rod's "first game-used glove as a Yankee," but sophisticated collectors suspect Rodriguez may simply have used it for a few innings in spring training, then passed it on to his reps.

"That's just manufacturing memorabilia," says glove expert Dennis Esken. "Game-used means it was used in a Major League game. It doesn't mean A-Rod played catch with it."

American Memorabilia president Victor Moreno said he did not know when Rodriguez used the glove, or how long he used it. "I'm not going to question A-Rod," he says.

Rodriguez declined to talk about problems related to his memorabilia sales when approached by a Daily News reporter before a game in Baltimore earlier this week. Monette says the player has impeccable integrity. Some of the proceeds from A-Rod memorabilia, he adds, are funneled to Rodriguez' favorite charities.

"Alex is the type who always takes the high road," Monette says. "He wants to touch fans and remove the stigma of being the $250 million man."

Monette says a lot of the gripes about ASI come from rivals and that his company has taken steps to eliminate problems. The muchachos are gone, and the company now deals directly with Rodriguez, meeting with him every month or so to collect game-used gear. Rodriguez has become more diligent in tracking and labeling his equipment, Monette says.

And in May, the company announced it will create a Web site to sell autographed memorabilia directly to customers. Holograms will be placed on game-used equipment and other collectibles. Collectors can type serial numbers from the holograms into a online database, a program that will verify the authenticity of their purchase.

Rodriguez will also use the site to conduct live chats with fans.

The Web site will be similar to a widely respected authentication program created in 2001 by Major League Baseball, but Monette says it will have some significant improvements: It will include photos of the items being used or signed by Rodriguez.

"No one has ever done this in this business before," he says. "Everyone makes mistakes, but we've decided we can't make mistakes from this point on."

Memorabilia insiders, however, are reserving judgement until the Web site takes off later this year. The only way for consumers to protect themselves, they say, is to do their homework, research items that interest them, and make sure they're buying what they've been told they're buying.

"Nobody has clean hands in this process, even collectors," Schauder says. "A lot of people want to believe there's a Santa even when in your heart you know there's no Santa. If you don't do your homework, you're gonna get burned."
--------------------------------------------------------------------

i don't know what's funnier; moreno saying "i'm not going to question a-rod" or monette saying "we've decided we can't make mistakes from this point on" prior to causing their biggest client to sever all ties with the company. i'm bowled over by the colossal talent it must take to sink an entire subsidiary with only 1 sale.

i wonder if ortiz has any muchachos?

rudy.

[stkmtimo]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

""Alex is the type who always takes the high road," Monette says. "He wants to touch fans and remove the stigma of being the $250 million man."

And how much was/is he selling his memorabilia for?

Tim

[beantown]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Hi Guys,

I purchased a pair of 2006 David Ortiz “game used” jerseys. One home and one road. I purchased the jerseys directly from one of Big Papi's Dominican friends. (FYI: He was on TV with Ortiz during the Homerun Derby at the 2006 All-Star game.)

The thing I'm SURE of is the autographs on both are 100% real. (Autographs are my field of expertise not GAME USED.)

So I showed both jerseys to my buddy and he said the tags on the seams inside of the jerseys have the wrong number.

Does anyone else know what the tagging on 2006 Majestic Game Used jerseys is supposed to look like?


Here's the front tagging and why I thought they were real:



Here's what's throwing the whole thing off:



Specifically THESE numbers:



HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just out of curiosity, does the jersey have extra sleeve and body length, as Ortiz Gamers have?

[bigtime59]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Unless there was a Majestic error, a game jersey of an established, 25-man roster player should almost always (97%+) be a 0062. From what I have heard (and this primarily applies to Baltimore, Colorado and Toronto) teams will break out 6200s from retail stock for callups or spares, if they're out of stock of a certain size or color in 6200 jerseys. Papi doesn't really play the field, so he shouldn't be wearing out his jerseys too badly. I'd be concerned about this one.
My favorite ASI/ESM laugher was a Miguel Tejada game worn jersey that I saw at the Cleveland national--with serifed numbers--that "came from Tejada's brother in law." The Orioles haven't worn serifed numbers in a non-TBC jersey since the early to mid eighties...and this was no TBC jersey!
Mark Sutton
bigtime39@aol.com

[allstarsplus]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

David Ortiz is an exclusive on autographs with Steiner. Steiner got from David some game used jerseys too. I don't know the wash tags so maybe Bob M. or Mr. Cowan to research it for us.

Here's the link:

http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/control/product/~pcategory=/~category=/~pid=ORTIJES000006

This could also be the situation of David ordering on his own additional jerseys.