What's a "fair" price to pay for a Hines Ward 2001 away game jersey?

[Preston]

Seeing as Steelers jerseys are very hard to come by, what would be a good price to pay for this? A guy I know is wanting to sell theirs, and I'm interested but wanted to gather some opinions.

Thanks in advance!

[Shipp_96]

Hines charges $8000 on his site for his game worn, signed jersey. I guess you know it is coming from him and all, but I find that price absurd, personally.

So I guess use that as a gauge and go from there...

[Preston]

$8K IS absurd...beyond absurd!

The guy is offering it for WAY less than that so that's at least a good start - anyone else please feel free to chime in

[mickeymbz]

$8K IS absurd...beyond absurd!

The guy is offering it for WAY less than that so that's at least a good start - anyone else please feel free to chime in

hes got another on there for 5k..at his website

[Preston]

Interesting...still too high lol.

Anyone have a guess as to what an estimated "value" a jersey of his would be? It's got light wear and a repair, too.

[Skinsandwiz]

He has is 04 Pro Bowl Gamer for 4K. Out of all the Jerseys thats a fair price considering its Pro Bowl

[Preston]

And game worn Pro Bowl jerseys from what I understand are EXTREMELY rare...the price is under $1,000 so I'm assuming this is a no-brainer?

[dcgreg25]

Given the scarcity of good Steelers jerseys, large fan base and Ward's prominence if you can get it for less than $1K you should jump all over it.

[Preston]

Exactly what I was thinking but wanted to make absolute sure - thanks guys! I'm going to sell a couple things and pick this one up.

[kprst6]

In all honesty, if the jersey is under $1,000 and it's not photo-matched, it's probably a fake.

[kprst6]

Also, in 2001, Hines Ward only wore 1 home and 1 away jersey during the entire season which included the pre-season and playoffs. If you cannot photo-match the jersey to 1 picture during the entire 2001 season, then it's not real.

[hrvatwill]

There was one on ebay just the other week that was accompanied by JO Sports paperwork and which had a starting bid of $4,000. Nobody placed a bid, though. JO Sports was selling some of his jerseys earlier this year which were signed by him and which went for more than that.

$1,000 is an absolute steal, assuming the jersey is authentic. My advice would be to try and get some good photos and photomatch the jersey beforehand to ensure its authenticity. Steelers gamers can often by photomatched by looking at the pattern of the stitching where the sleeves meet the body. I have matched both of my Steelers gamers in this manner.

Good luck! Oh, and if it's real and you get it for less than $1,000, I'd be more than happy to buy it off of you for a very significant premium!!! So let me know if you want to flip it!!! :D

[Preston]

I do have pics of it...would someone be willing to help if I posted pics tonight?

This is WHY I LOVE this board - unlike some of the other forums I've been involved with, people here actually HELP people. Hell of a concept, I know!!

[kprst6]

The one one eBay was more than likely a fake as I personally know what he still owns.

If the Ward you are attempting to buy is this one:
http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=112589

I would stay away from it.

[hrvatwill]

I can try and help you. Make sure the pictures show the stitching pattern on the front and back of the sleeves. That will greatly facilitate the process.

[Preston]

Here's a couple pics that I was sent. Posting a couple more momentarily

Pics of the front, back and the patch and year/size tag

[Preston]

And here are pics of the sleeves.

Anyone think this is legit? I'm really holding out hope...I purchased my Blaine Bishop Eagles jersey from the same guy so I'm really hoping I'll want to pull the trigger on this.

[kprst6]

an 01-44 seems real suspicious to me. I would think it would be 01-40

[hrvatwill]

Unfortunately, there is no discernible pattern on the sleeves. I guess my idea really only works on home and throwback jerseys since the stitching is black, whereas on the white jerseys, it is white and therefore, doesn't show well. One thing that surprised me, the size of the jersey is a 44 whereas the ones offered through JO Sports earlier this year were size 40's I believe. Perhpas he used a bigger jersey back in 2001 and then changed to smaller sizes over the years, I don't know.

[Preston]

Does anyone know a Ken Mace? He is the person I purchased the Bishop jersey from, and owns this one. The reason I feel comfortable giving out his name is I know nobody would "swoop in" and get the jersey I am purchasing if it is in fact authentic...thank God for class and morals!

Not sure if that helps but he is the owner of the jersey.

[kprst6]

He could easily own a fake and not realize it. Just because a persons intentions are well, doesn't make the jersey legit.

Here are my 2 cents on why I wouldn't buy it.

1. The size is 01-44 and the only way to find out if he wore a size 44 that year is to have the photo-matched home jersey as a reference.

2. The front 6 in your pictures is centered under the Steelers emblem. In a picture of Hines from that year, the 6 is to the right of the Steelers emblem.
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/506773/Getty-Images-Sport

3. Hines Ward signs all of his game used equipment so no one can claim they have unsigned game used Ward equipment, it's his was of authentication. That is why his signings clearly say he will not sign game used equipment.


It looks like there is a hologram. What company did it come from and is there a photographic COA to accompany the jersey?

[kprst6]

Getty photo-reference http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/506773/Getty-Images-Sport

[Preston]

I just contacted the seller and hopefully they can provide a COA and some more info for me. Thanks a bunch guys!

Any other opinions please feel free to keep 'em coming! My expertise is Titans gamers so this is kind of greek to me, as they say

[hrvatwill]

I don't know the name, but that really doesn't mean anything. He may have a stellar reputation and I wouldn't know it.

Looking at the jersey some more, the cut seems off, i.e, it's too wide.
I would expect a Ward jersey to be tightly tailored to his torso.

But I tend to be highly skeptical when it comes to Steelers game used jerseys, given the amount of fakes out there (many people who own them don't know it). As such, in the final analysis, I don't see anything with this jersey that would override my inherent skepticism. But that's just my opinion and I would never profess to knowing everything there is to know about Steelers gamers, however I have learned some valuable lessons in the past.

I wish you nothing but good luck, whatever you decide.

[Preston]

I honestly will pass on the jersey unless the seller can provide solid authentication.

I just wanted to double-check though and get some other solid opinions

[bigben7]

I would pass on the jersey. In 01 he most likely only wore 1 jersey and this jersey does not show enough wear. Steeler players did not get there jersey's back then. It has only been the last few years players having been buying there own jersey's to wear and then to resell. I have spoken with several players and trainers about this issue and I would be very skeptical this jersey was worn by Hines Ward. Most likely game issue at best.

[stretch]

Since the subject happens to be Hines Ward I noticed this CL listing the other day for some of his game used shoes. http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/clt/2401888246.html

I'm not the owner!

[legaleagle92481]

ward stuff is not that scarce. he sells it on his site, jo has sold it this year. he is not like big ben or troy polamalu who have nothing on the market by way of jerseys. also lets be real he is probably not making the hall of fame so the prices his stuff commands is crazy. who is that hologram from? i think i know but i dont want to say anything in case i am wrong.

[Preston]

The hologram I'm still waiting on an answer from the seller - I'm hoping it's a legit, credible company, so we'll see.

[Shipp_96]

also lets be real he is probably not making the hall of fame so the prices his stuff commands is crazy.

I disagree completely with this statement. Not hall worthy? Michael Irvin is in the hall, for Pete's sake! Hines is the all time Steelers receiving leader, a two time Super Bowl Champion and three time participant, and a Super Bowl MVP. I would not say it is so hard to believe he may get to Canton someday.

Just for fun, let's compare a HOFer Irvin vs Ward:

Ward: 954 Receptions, 11,702 YDs, 83 TDs-Two time Super Bowl Champ, Super Bowl XL MVP

Irvin: 750 Receptions, 11,904 YDs, 87 TDs-Three Time Super Bowl Champ

Look pretty damn close to me, and Ward is still playing. Plus, let's not forget Irvin's off the field issues as well. Hines is like a choir boy compared to him. Plus he just won Dancing with the Stars (LOL)!

[Shipp_96]

Preston,

Sorry, I got sidetracked from my original purpose for posting on this thread. I actually came on here to show you a Mewelde Moore away Steelers jersey Jo Sports are selling, so I know this one is legit. Hope this helps with comparison shots against the Ward jersey. This is going for $3k, BTW.

[legaleagle92481]

I disagree completely with this statement. Not hall worthy? Michael Irvin is in the hall, for Pete's sake! Hines is the all time Steelers receiving leader, a two time Super Bowl Champion and three time participant, and a Super Bowl MVP. I would not say it is so hard to believe he may get to Canton someday.

Just for fun, let's compare a HOFer Irvin vs Ward:

Ward: 954 Receptions, 11,702 YDs, 83 TDs-Two time Super Bowl Champ, Super Bowl XL MVP

Irvin: 750 Receptions, 11,904 YDs, 87 TDs-Three Time Super Bowl Champ

Look pretty damn close to me, and Ward is still playing. Plus, let's not forget Irvin's off the field issues as well. Hines is like a choir boy compared to him. Plus he just won Dancing with the Stars (LOL)!

Ward got his numbers in 202 games, except for receptions Irvin posted superior numbers in only 159 games. Irvin won one more super bowl and in his prime was considered the number two wideout in the league behind Rice. Ward was considered behind Rice, Moss, Owens and Harrison among others early in his career and now he is behind at least 15 guys. Being alltime leading receiver on Steelers means nothing they are a run first team traditionally.

[Shipp_96]

Ward got his numbers in 202 games, except for receptions Irvin posted superior numbers in only 159 games. Irvin won one more super bowl and in his prime was considered the number two wideout in the league behind Rice. Ward was considered behind Rice, Moss, Owens and Harrison among others early in his career and now he is behind at least 15 guys. Being alltime leading receiver on Steelers means nothing they are a run first team traditionally.

First, I presented statistical facts to validate my point of view, you present your opinion. Seriously, I have never understood why someone like yourself who is a self proclaimed Steeler hater (from previous posts you have made) always posts on Steeler related threads? That is a factual observation. I personally loathe the Ravens and Skins, so I would never comment on players from those teams, because I do not like them.

You "claim" Irvin was number two behind Rice? Really? I used to watch alot of football in the 90s, and I think Cris Carter would have something to say about that! For my money, Andre Rison was considered more a deep threat than Irvin back then. Also, Jerry Rice was an old man when Hines was in his prime, so comparing them when they were both playing does not make sense, either. And don't get me wrong, I LOVE Jerry Rice and consider him the finest player in NFL history.

Also, John Stallworth put up HOF numbers, and that is who Hines passed for number one all-time. Maybe you do not watch the Steelers, but I have my whole life, and Stallworth was MUCH better than the WRs you listed (like Owens & Harrison). So how are those numbers not relevant, just because he is on the Steelers?

I really do not want to make this a public p!ssing match, which it is already turning into. You do not like the Steelers, so that is really what you base your opinion on. I was just trying to present a factual, stat based comparison.

[Preston]

First, I presented statistical facts to validate my point of view, you present your opinion. Seriously, I have never understood why someone like yourself who is a self proclaimed Steeler hater (from previous posts you have made) always posts on Steeler related threads? That is a factual observation. I personally loathe the Ravens and Skins, so I would never comment on players from those teams, because I do not like them.

You "claim" Irvin was number two behind Rice? Really? I used to watch alot of football in the 90s, and I think Cris Carter would have something to say about that! For my money, Andre Rison was considered more a deep threat than Irvin back then. Also, Jerry Rice was an old man when Hines was in his prime, so comparing them when they were both playing does not make sense, either. And don't get me wrong, I LOVE Jerry Rice and consider him the finest player in NFL history.

Also, John Stallworth put up HOF numbers, and that is who Hines passed for number one all-time. Maybe you do not watch the Steelers, but I have my whole life, and Stallworth was MUCH better than the WRs you listed (like Owens & Harrison). So how are those numbers not relevant, just because he is on the Steelers?

I really do not want to make this a public p!ssing match, which it is already turning into. You do not like the Steelers, so that is really what you base your opinion on. I was just trying to present a factual, stat based comparison.

While I agree that Hines Ward is arguably a Hall of Famer, I'm not asking if he is a Hall of Famer, I'm asking about the jersey...so as they say on SNL in the Jimmy Fallon skit, "simma down....now!" LOL :)

[legaleagle92481]

First, I presented statistical facts to validate my point of view, you present your opinion. Seriously, I have never understood why someone like yourself who is a self proclaimed Steeler hater (from previous posts you have made) always posts on Steeler related threads? That is a factual observation. I personally loathe the Ravens and Skins, so I would never comment on players from those teams, because I do not like them.

You "claim" Irvin was number two behind Rice? Really? I used to watch alot of football in the 90s, and I think Cris Carter would have something to say about that! For my money, Andre Rison was considered more a deep threat than Irvin back then. Also, Jerry Rice was an old man when Hines was in his prime, so comparing them when they were both playing does not make sense, either. And don't get me wrong, I LOVE Jerry Rice and consider him the finest player in NFL history.

Also, John Stallworth put up HOF numbers, and that is who Hines passed for number one all-time. Maybe you do not watch the Steelers, but I have my whole life, and Stallworth was MUCH better than the WRs you listed (like Owens & Harrison). So how are those numbers not relevant, just because he is on the Steelers?

I really do not want to make this a public p!ssing match, which it is already turning into. You do not like the Steelers, so that is really what you base your opinion on. I was just trying to present a factual, stat based comparison.

Lol. Wow. When did I say I hate the Steelers? I don't hate the Steelers. In fact I rooted for them in the Super Bowl. I like Ward, always have. I just objectively don't think he will make Canton. It is so hard for receivers to get in. Cris Carter, Andre Reed, Tim Brown were all very good players, Carter and Brown had stats far superior to Ward and none of those three has gotten in. It took recent HOF WRs many tries to get in including Art Monk, James Lofton and Bob Hayes. And your guy Stallworth got in what 15 years after his last game! Swann took forever to get in as well. The only guys who got in relatively fast were Rice (1st ballot) and Irvin (3rd ballot). Additionally, Shannon Sharpe was essentially a receiver and despite the best numbers ever for a TE when he retired he took several tries to get in. When Ward is eligible he will be competing against in addition to possibly some of the Carter, Reed and Brown group: Issac Bruce, Torry Holt, Terrell Owens, Moss, Marvin Harrision, Rod Smith, Jimmy Smith, Chad Ochocinco, and two TEs who are essentially wideouts: Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates. That is stiff competition. Is Ward really so much better than any of the guys listed above that he should jump them all and have an easy time getting in? In fact most of them have numbers far superior to his that in some cases dwarf his. Super Bowls don't mean much for wideouts either as they have a limited impact on a team's success unlike say QBs.. They didn't help Monk, Stallworth and Swann much and all had more than Ward does. Comparing him to Irvin is silly. Irvin put up superior numbers save for receptions in 43 less games. It hurts Ward's case that it took him almost three more seasons to put up the same numbers as Irvin. Irvin's numbers are low for a Hall of Famer as well because his career ended so suddenly with that hit in Philly at a fairly young age. He was coming off two seasons of 70 plus receptions and 1,000 plus yards at the time so it is safe to say I would have added to this numbers if he had not been hurt. I said he was the second best wideout of his era because noone but him and Rice are in the HOF from that time. The writers are suppossed to be the experts so I defer to them on that point. Rison has never really been considered and Carter has been unsuccessful four times now and if you look at the upcoming players who will be eligible it might be awhile before he gets in. As far as Stallworth he played in a much less pass friendly era on a running and defense orientated team so his numbers are not overly impressive compared to modern standards, so IMO topping those numbers is not remarkable enough of a feat that it makes him HOF bound. Every team has a leading receiver they all can't make Canton. If I were spending $5,000 to $8,000 on a jersey I would want it to be of a surefire, first ballot HOF legend rather than a guy who very well may not make it and if he does it will take him a long time.

[Shipp_96]

Yawn...I'm done. I just do not like when someone throws out an automatic "let's be real, he is not going to be a HOFer" statement like it is fact and expects everyone to accept it as such.

Preston, I apologize for bogarting your thread with this pettiness (much of it on my end), because I know you were simply asking for information post.

[Preston]

Preston, I apologize for bogarting your thread with this pettiness (much of it on my end), because I know you were simply asking for information post.

Not a problem! I agree that Ward is eventually a Hall of Famer, but there are a lot of guys, Carter, Reed, Tim Brown, etc etc not to mention the other receivers who will be eligible around the time - Randy Moss, TO, etc. And I'm ALL for defending my stance on something (just ask my wife!)

But I am passing on the jersey unless the seller provides ROCK SOLID authentication. Plus, I'd almost rather have the Eddie George jersey my guy has - hopefully I can talk him out of it!

[kprst6]

All I am going to say is an item's value is solely what a person is willing to pay for an item.

People that complain an item isn't worth X amount need to look in the mirror and realize that just because an item isn't worth X amount to them, doesn't mean there aren't 20 other people out there willing to pay X amount. There is no need to convince someone otherwise and this thread shows why I never try to deal with any collectors as they will always try to convince you that your item is worth less than what you paid for it.

I deem people that justify their purchases and talk trash on others because they think their thoughts and value of an item are the only opinion that matters as being a Fanboy. Fanboy's should not be taken seriously and IMO lose all credibility once their opinions surface. They talk trash and then justify their trash by saying they like the team, item, etc they are talking trash on to validate their points. By the looks of it, there are ulterior motives with some of these posts.

[freddiefreeman5]

All I am going to say is an item's value is solely what a person is willing to pay for an item.

People that complain an item isn't worth X amount need to look in the mirror and realize that just because an item isn't worth X amount to them, doesn't mean there aren't 20 other people out there willing to pay X amount. There is no need to convince someone otherwise and this thread shows why I never try to deal with any collectors as they will always try to convince you that your item is worth less than what you paid for it.

I deem people that justify their purchases and talk trash on others because they think their thoughts and value of an item are the only opinion that matters as being a Fanboy. Fanboy's should not be taken seriously and IMO lose all credibility once their opinions surface. They talk trash and then justify their trash by saying they like the team, item, etc they are talking trash on to validate their points. By the looks of it, there are ulterior motives with some of these posts.
This should be required reading for all new members. Good post!

[Preston]

per the seller...FWIW

"yes it has a hologram on the neck tag. I purchased the jersey from Pro Sports Investments and it is their hologram. I haven't been able to locate the COA but I will look around again. Steeler jerseys are tough since the team doesn't sell their jerseys. If they find the light of day it's done either through a charity or out the back door. I've had it looked at a couple of times and gotten both the thumbs up & the thumbs down. Aside from the repair there really isn't much on the jersey. There are a couple of faint marks, one on the right shoulder and a couple under the right under arm. As you can see from the pics, the bottom is cut off . It does have a care label on the inside."

I think I have heard of PSI and I believe they are reputable, are they not?

[commando]

I (the seller) haven't been able to locate the COA but I will look around again.

I am sick and tired of hearing sellers say "I can't find the COA, but I'm sure it's around here somewhere." Well Mr. Seller, you'd better start looking. I'm not going to comment on the seller or PSI, because I know nothing about either, but I can tell you a hologram gives you ZERO information most of the time. If someone really has a jersey valued in the thousands, especially a rare one like a Steelers game-used, I would think the COA would be placed in a safe or even a file in a desk drawer.

If a COA really exists, I hope the guy finds it.

[hrvatwill]

I think I have heard of PSI and I believe they are reputable, are they not?[/quote]

I have dealt with them. PM me and I will share my experience with you.

[legaleagle92481]

All I am going to say is an item's value is solely what a person is willing to pay for an item.

People that complain an item isn't worth X amount need to look in the mirror and realize that just because an item isn't worth X amount to them, doesn't mean there aren't 20 other people out there willing to pay X amount. There is no need to convince someone otherwise and this thread shows why I never try to deal with any collectors as they will always try to convince you that your item is worth less than what you paid for it.

I deem people that justify their purchases and talk trash on others because they think their thoughts and value of an item are the only opinion that matters as being a Fanboy. Fanboy's should not be taken seriously and IMO lose all credibility once their opinions surface. They talk trash and then justify their trash by saying they like the team, item, etc they are talking trash on to validate their points. By the looks of it, there are ulterior motives with some of these posts.

You refer to "collectors" but then what are you? Isn't everyone on here a collector in one form or another? Its called healthy debate on an item and a player. There is not a single post on here talking trash.

[bigben7]

What people are missing on Hines Ward is that he is a Steeler legend who won 2 Super Bowls. Just like the Yankee teams that won the World Series,ie Posada, Yankee fans will pay more for their game used items then Yankee players who did not win the World Series.

[Preston]

Hines Ward is in the same boat as my guy Eddie George...but has two rings and a Super Bowl MVP - there's already a logjam at the position now and just think when he's eligible...but I think he eventually gets in.

However...I've heard of Pro Sports Investments...though I checked their web site and their last "special" was in I think 2009? Doesn't mean they're not legit, but I wonder why they're not "around"?

[hrvatwill]

Hines Ward is in the same boat as my guy Eddie George...but has two rings and a Super Bowl MVP - there's already a logjam at the position now and just think when he's eligible...but I think he eventually gets in.

However...I've heard of Pro Sports Investments...though I checked their web site and their last "special" was in I think 2009? Doesn't mean they're not legit, but I wonder why they're not "around"?

You might want to do a search for Pro Sports Investments and also the name Bernie Gernay in the old threads. They have been discussed on here before.

Also, again I have had direct experience with the company and more particularly, with respect to Steeler jerseys they had for sale about five years ago, and would be happy to relay the nature of that experience if you like, all you need to do is PM me.

[Preston]

You might want to do a search for Pro Sports Investments and also the name Bernie Gernay in the old threads. They have been discussed on here before.

Also, again I have had direct experience with the company and more particularly, with respect to Steeler jerseys they had for sale about five years ago, and would be happy to relay the nature of that experience if you like, all you need to do is PM me.

Hrvat can you email me please? Prestonsportsman@aol.com ... I tried to PM you but it says you can't accept messages.

[hrvatwill]

Email sent. Sorry about that.

[Toowon]

You guys are scaring me. I bought a Hines jersey from Vintage Authentics a few years ago for around $1,000. It's a black jersey and it's unsigned. Your boy Lou Lampson is the authenticator, and according to many on this site, Cap'n Crunch might as well have done it. It's a 40. Can't remember the year; I'm chillin on vacation in San Diego so I can't check. Thoughts?

[legaleagle92481]

You guys are scaring me. I bought a Hines jersey from Vintage Authentics a few years ago for around $1,000. It's a black jersey and it's unsigned. Your boy Lou Lampson is the authenticator, and according to many on this site, Cap'n Crunch might as well have done it. It's a 40. Can't remember the year; I'm chillin on vacation in San Diego so I can't check. Thoughts?

Not everything Lou Lampson authenticated is a fake. He has authenticated alot of legitmate items over the years. never assume something is fake only because Lampson authenticated it. As for price collector interest is higher now than a few years ago so it does not mean anything on its own. Alot of guys have only been collecting game used for a couple of years. Not every single Hines jersey is autographed either. Sometimes in any locker room stuff grows legs and walks off so to speak. Why don't you post pics and see what people say about it.