Who would you take, Manny or Vladdy?

[rangersfan1214]

I've always found it interesting that many people rave over Manny's career but not many rave over Vlad's. I'm not saying none do, I'm just saying that you here about Manny more. So I pose the question to yall of who would yall take on your team (Player wise).

Manny Good:
11 seasons batting over .300.
12 seasons of over 130 games played.
12 time All Star.
2 time World Series Champion.

Manny Bad:
Linked to steroids.
Noted by many to be a prima-donna.
Thought to have bad fielding.

Vladdy's Good:
.318 career batting average, .380 OBP
13 seasons over .300
11 seasons of over 130 games played.
MVP award (2004)

Vladdy Bad:
No world series wins.
Low walk rate.
Not a very good base runner.
Career average number of pitches seen each plate appearance is 3.24 lower than the average 3.75.

So who would you take? Manny or Vlad?

[frikativ54]

Vlad any day. It's not that Manny has merely been linked to steroids; he's been caught. I would take Guerrero, because of Manny's PED issue.

[EurekaDave]

I woiuld take Vlad. I don't think not winning a World Series is fair bewcause we all know mediocre palyers who wear "The Ring." they're still mediocre.

Vlad still has DH value but Manny is a worthless, selfish loser--and obviously not all that smart either. Hasta la proxima.

Dave Silverbrand

[CampWest]

Well, I don't think you could go wrong either way...

That said, if I was building a team in 1994 and could pick the guy to play 15 years (most of that not being drug tested) - I think I'd take Manny. But I also really like Vlad.

Manny has:
+.030 points on OBP (slightly lowers BA, but +600 walks)
+110 HR
+85 Doubles
+240 Runs Scored
+360 RBI <--- To me this is the most important

On the flip-side Vlad has:
800 fewer K
+140 Steals, that make up some for Manny's doubles.
+better defense on the whole of his career

On the whole, to me I would pick these guys based on impact to a game and ability to drive in runs. I am taking these guys as a #3 hitter and in that case, I have to give the nod to Manny on the virtue of his run production.

[freddiefreeman5]

Vlad any day. It's not that Manny has merely been linked to steroids; he's been caught. I would take Guerrero, because of Manny's PED issue.
I agree 100%.
Plus the fact that Vlad is a team player and Manny is a me player.

[xpress34]

You mentioned ManRam's 12 AS appearances. What about Vlad's 9?

Vlad all day long...

[spartakid]

Vladdy for sure

[AstrosGU]

I would have to agree and take Vladdy.

[mwbosoxfan]

All-Time Post-Season:

Hits - Manny 3rd
RBI's - Manny 2nd
HR's - Manny 1st

Of course I'm biased, but I would have to go with....... Manny.

[justinbittner220]

I prefer Vlad over Manny. Numbers aren't the only thing to consider. Work ethic and the love of the game go a long way to me.

[CollectGU]

I prefer Vlad over Manny. Numbers aren't the only thing to consider. Work ethic and the love of the game go a long way to me.

Perception isn't always reality:

Jim Thome, another great hitter who's approaching 600 home runs this season, can also vouch for Ramirez's talents and success (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-09-02/sports/ct-spt-0903-white-sox-chicago--20100902_1_sox-s-ramirez-work-ethic-dodgers).
"He's probably the best right-handed hitter I've seen," Thome said of his former teammate. "Manny always has had a tremendous work ethic. People never saw the extra work he would put in. It was pretty impressive."

Rays manager Joe Maddon and many of the Rays' players have been complimentary of Manny Ramirez's work ethic this spring.
"He's diligent, he does work, this guy does work," Maddon said. "And it's not just what he does physically. It's the video studying. The conversations. And the thing that's really good about him, he's willing to share. He's actually talked to different hitters about different things. He's done a great job with them also. This guy likes to play baseball. I don't think people understand that he really likes to play.

[freddiefreeman5]

I will believe my own eyes when forming my opinion of Manny. My eyes saw a selfish player and a mediocre outfielder at best.

[CampWest]

I will believe my own eyes when forming my opinion of Manny. My eyes saw a selfish player and a mediocre outfielder at best.

I think thats pretty short-sighted. If you watch all of his games, you only saw 1/10th of the time that went into his professional career.

I don't know that its appropriate to throw out the opinion of a guy like Jim Thome who is widely regarded as one of the most humble, honest, down to earth players in the game today.

I watched a lot of Manny. I never saw a selfish player. Not sure what that really means in baseball - its not like he was a ball hogging point guard. Did you want him to sacrifice bunt more frequently? That would surely be a bad use of his talents. Selfish, maybe he could have played through an injury or two, but a pro athlete knows his body and his limitations so I am willing to give the slight benefit of the doubt.

Honestly, I can't recall a teammate ever saying Manny was anything less than an ideal and well liked teammate. Manny was definitely not an above average fielder, but he wasn't a totally horrible fielder either - He played nearly his whole career in the AL and he was never a full-time DH so obviously his coaches thought he was an acceptable fielder.

I cannot excuse, nor do I want to excuse, the multiple drug tests failed.

But I do not understand the perceptions of Manny that frankly seem wholly contradictory with his performance and conduct on the field. He was a bit of an airhead and lost focus sometimes, but his ability to forget what just happened helped him forget the last pitch he just missed by 2 feet and hit the next one 450 feet.

[kellsox]

Honestly, I can't recall a teammate ever saying Manny was anything less than an ideal and well liked teammate



Many of his teammates couldn't stand him and at the end of his time in Boston David Ortiz couldnt even defend his actions. Manny was not a good teammate- he put the Boston front office in bad positions just before the trade deadline in several seasons- demanding contract extensions/ trades. He regularly requested days off in pennant races when other players were clearly playing through injuries. As for his fielding, the reason he played OF in Boston was because Ortiz was the full time DH. Anyone that watched him regularly could see that he didn't belong in the field regularly. Let's not also forget he quit/ retired on his team when he learned he got busted for peds this season( a second suspension). creating a hole in a lineup of a team with playoff aspirations.

[freddiefreeman5]

Maybe he just played like a lazy bum when ESPN was showing his games on national tv and was a great teammate and player every other game.

Yeah, that must have been it. :confused:

[gamer35]

Honestly, I can't recall a teammate ever saying Manny was anything less than an ideal and well liked teammate



Many of his teammates couldn't stand him and at the end of his time in Boston David Ortiz couldnt even defend his actions. Manny was not a good teammate- he put the Boston front office in bad positions just before the trade deadline in several seasons- demanding contract extensions/ trades. He regularly requested days off in pennant races when other players were clearly playing through injuries. As for his fielding, the reason he played OF in Boston was because Ortiz was the full time DH. Anyone that watched him regularly could see that he didn't belong in the field regularly. Let's not also forget he quit/ retired on his team when he learned he got busted for peds this season( a second suspension). creating a hole in a lineup of a team with playoff aspirations.

Guy was the 2004 World Series MVP and was arguably the best hitter in the 2007 playoffs yet I bet you would take a dirt dog like Trot Nixon or Kevin Youkilis because they got their hats dirty and threw their bat when they K'ed. Have the Red Sox made the World Series since he left? Coincidence, I think not.

You can debate all you want about the numbers he put up and whether or not they were tainted because of the PED issue. But you cannot say he did not work hard. He would show up to the park at 10:30am to hit and lift, go home and sleep, and then show up again in the afternoon and put in the same work. But that doesnt matter because he didnt show emotion or laughed when he K'ed.

[kellsox]

Never said he didn't work hard, I said he was a bad teammate. Throwing a bat after strikeout means nothing to me- not sure how that became part ofthe discussion. There is no debate that his numbers are tainted because of peds. He got suspended twice and was not the same player after the first suspension. He could sleep at the ballpark for all I care- it was all for manny- let's not forget the peds help in keeping up a strenuous workout regimen. Is it a coincidence that they havnt won it since he left? Probably. They team had unrelated flaws and issues( mostly injuries) in the years post manny. Its also a difficult task to win 3 world series in such a short span.