Pro-Cuts, not team-issued

[sox83cubs84]

Two more procuts of the 1992 Dream Team are being offered on eBay, courtesy of Steve Berg, one of the convicted parties in the late 1990s FBI North Shore Sports sting:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/MICHAEL-JORDAN-9-OLYMPIC-1992-GAME-ISSUED-WORN-JERSEY-/00/$(KGrHqIOKpEE4j-r!vSPBOQcF2IzFQ~~0_12.JPG


http://i.ebayimg.com/t/KARL-MALONE-11-OLYMPIC-1992-GAME-ISSUED-WORN-JERSEY-/00/$(KGrHqYOKm8E3doK)v8WBOBUWRpHbQ~~_12.JPG

The NOB fonts are key to pinning them down as being procuts and not game-issued:


http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/227532.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FDA2B628513F7608C6 CAD7F8359937D199734446D9B1386347


http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/103159903.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF87892102A727B1636DE2E6FB4586EE03731D49 08A399BE5BFBA88B55BB72A1B00A4788E30A760B0D811297

In one word...AVOID!!

Dave Miedema

[trsent]

Dave, you know I support you, but I don't understand what Steve Berg's past has to do with these jerseys. So, he is selling pro-cut jerseys as game issued? Is that your concern? Did you email the seller about your findings and give them 24 hours to respond about your concerns before making this post?

I know 15 years ago Steve Berg had issues with the federal government, but you have not made much sense bringing up his past with your post about these jerseys.

Please, explain what he listed wrong, and when you emailed him, what his response, if any was.

So, the jerseys are legitimate jerseys you are saying, but they were not made for Karl Malone to wear, they were made as retail pro-cuts? I have no idea the value of these, but either way, they must be rare jerseys, right?

His asking price doesn't really matter, Steve Berg usually prices items well above market value so it is hard to take that into consideration. Just please let us know more not just that 15 years ago he had issues because in the article I found in this link below he gives a nasty quote towards you which is too bad because over the years I have always defended your part in that mess 15 years ago because I truly believe you were taken advantage of by these people but you attacking them without following forum rules and contacting them first doesn't make much sense.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/archive/index.php/t-1695.html

Pretty neat when you scroll down the thread you can see me defending you back in 2006 before you joining Game Used Universe.

[Dolphins23]

why was he in trouble with feds? I had no idea stevy was fed chopped 15 years ago.

I give the guy credit though. Can't hate on him, hes doing his thing now one jersey at a time!


Love you stevey!!! Keep your head to the sky

[Dolphins23]

PS I was 100% joking... But no really the man did his time and deserves a 2nd chance before any one jumps to conclusions. Look at the NFL and how many 2nd chances they give. The guy really isint stateting any false information or claiming to sell something that he described differently in his listing. So hes right lets aby by board rules before further jumping to conclusions against Mr.Levine

Poor guy can never sell anything related to Jordan or basketball ever again with out being dragged under the bus again.

I feel bad for the guy, he was young and dumb made a stupid foolish mistake paid his dues and now deserves to try to make a living like the rest of us. It's only a certain amount of time before one of us messes up big time, and do you want members like me saying you deserve a 2nd chance or do you want members like yourself calling you out every move you make after the fact? It's your call, because you never know what may happen to you in the future with regards to the law.

[kudu]

Looks like Dave has a concern with the NOB font and rightfully so:

http://www.write-hand-man.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/usamensbballmichael-jordan.jpg

[DeacDoug]

Steve Berg should find another way to make a living.

[freddiefreeman5]

I feel bad for the guy, he was young and dumb made a stupid foolish mistake paid his dues and now deserves to try to make a living like the rest of us. law.
If you ever get caught selling fake insurance policies I hope you don't start selling insurance again after you pay your dues. ;) Understand?

[trsent]

The point I was making is that the jersey has an issue with the way it was described. I do not know if the seller knows this or not, but just posting it on here doesn't show responsibility to the concept of attempting to discuss it with the seller first which is a forum policy that should be followed.

[Dolphins23]

If you ever get caught selling fake insurance policies I hope you don't start selling insurance again after you pay your dues. ;) Understand?


No thats not fair at all. I agree that he messed up and flooded the market with fake merchandise, but still it was 15 years ago. You don't think he learned his lesson. If anything I would buy off him now, because hes probably so sold on rebuilding his rep that you could take advantage of him.

[mmonte4]

The point I was making is that the jersey has an issue with the way it was described. I do not know if the seller knows this or not, but just posting it on here doesn't show responsibility to the concept of attempting to discuss it with the seller first which is a forum policy that should be followed.

I don't see what is wrong with calling him out for misrepresenting his items on ebay. Those jerseys are clearly NOT game worn or game issued. They are procuts plain and simple. Steve has been around long enough to know this and my experience has been that he will ignore messages saying so. Its interesting to see you jump to his defense.

Here's an update on Steve...I purchased the Jordan USA procut he currently has listed several weeks ago and had to return it for MISREPRESENTATION. The jerseys had a rectangular stain around the rib area (looked to be residue from a sticker). This was not at all clear from his photos. In fact, he positioned a roll/crease in the jersey along that area that made the stain impossible to see. One I received the jersey, I immediately contacted him. Steve first ignored emails, then denied it even after I sent him photos of the stain. Finally I got paypal/ebay involved and he issued the refund and accepted the return. It appears he was able to get the stain out and has now re-listed the jersey. Far from a great transaction, but I wasn't the least bit surprised.

[freddiefreeman5]

No thats not fair at all. I agree that he messed up and flooded the market with fake merchandise, but still it was 15 years ago. You don't think he learned his lesson. If anything I would buy off him now, because hes probably so sold on rebuilding his rep that you could take advantage of him.
How does any of us know he learned his lesson?

The FACT is that he was caught selling fakes. You can hope he learned his lesson all you want but you dont know.
The only thing that is a fact is that he sold fakes.

If you want to risk your money on what he sells then that is up to you. But I dont like betting my money when the dealer has been caught cheating.

[ivo610]

No thats not fair at all. I agree that he messed up and flooded the market with fake merchandise, but still it was 15 years ago. You don't think he learned his lesson. If anything I would buy off him now, because hes probably so sold on rebuilding his rep that you could take advantage of him.

Would you be okay with your daughter dating a sex offender? I mean if he served his time and learned his lesson of course.

You think he is "sold on rebuilding his rep" in light of the evidence here?

[Dolphins23]

Would you be okay with your daughter dating a sex offender? I mean if he served his time and learned his lesson of course.

You think he is "sold on rebuilding his rep" in light of the evidence here?'

I don't have a daughter nor ever will, but thats totally different, Sex offenders can't be compared to jersey frauds.

That being said I would still never buy from the guy. Just because I know his background. But I feel everyone should get a 2nd chance. but after seeing he tried to stiff someone already with hiding the sticker stain is mind boggoling. Is this guy serious? Trying to stiff someone already!?!? I wouldn't touch this guy with a stick.

[freddiefreeman5]

'


That being said I would still never buy from the guy. Just because I know his background. But I feel everyone should get a 2nd chance. but after seeing he tried to stiff someone already with hiding the sticker stain is mind boggoling. Is this guy serious? Trying to stiff someone already!?!? I wouldn't touch this guy with a stick.
He had his 2nd chance and see what he did with it?

[trsent]

The issue here isn't if an item is improperly described, it is that the seller appears was never contacted about the concerns in the first place. Their title and description are confusing and if anyone in their right mind was going to buy either of these jerseys, I'm sure they would ask more questions.

I wonder, how does anyone know these jerseys were not made for the players? So the name is in a different location, they are similar and could have been factory extras. I don't believe they sold pro-cuts to the public of these, did they? Maybe they made extra styles.

Maybe the seller, no matter what his past, should have been asked before these posts were made. Did anyone email them?

I am not defending the seller, I am confused why they were attacked and no mention of attempted contact, per forum rules, was mentioned.

Personally, I don't care about the items for sale, as I'm sure everyone in this thread doesn't care as no one has intentions of buying them, but if the sales are going to be called out I question if there was an attempt to discuss the situation with the seller first, which is forum policy when calling out an item.

Game Issued and Pro-Cut are terms that often get confused in discussion as everyone believe they have the proper definition, but truth is the seller will always look at these terms one way and the buyer will look at them a different way. This is what this debate is really all about, right?

[trsent]

He had his 2nd chance and see what he did with it?

What did he do with it, by the way?

[Dolphins23]

What did he do with it, by the way?

Hes refering to the jersey being sold with a sticker stain and he tried to crumple the jersey up in the spot the stain was to hide it. And forgot to mention it to the first buyer.

[trsent]

Hes refering to the jersey being sold with a sticker stain and he tried to crumple the jersey up in the spot the stain was to hide it. And forgot to mention it to the first buyer.

Ok, I must have missed that post.

[sox83cubs84]

To one and all:

I did not contact Steve for an explanation as, at the time I posted, the auctions each had less than 24 hours before closing. I made a judgment call, figuring that, even if he had decided to respond, the response wouldn't have made it to me in time to then make the post. If this route of action disappoints Joel, or any other forum members, I offer my apologies...time was an issue here, and I didn't want to see a forum member bid on a questionable item.

Judging by most of the responses on this thread, I feel i made the right choice. And, I agree with many of the posters...this guy has NOT learned his lesson.

Dave Miedema

[gingi79]

Agree or disagree with Joel, the man is certainly for equality for all and following the rules. Honestly, I hope he is on my jury if I am ever accused of something as he has proven to be able to look past the scumbag in the name of the law. He isn't wrong either, wanting us all to follow the board rules.

That being said Joel, the guy punked Dave, a man you have shown loyalty to as a friend. Mr. Miedema seems to have gotten the short stick and lost integrity in this hobby when he wasn't to blame.

I will reiterate what I said before, it is admirable that you are willing to see past Berg's previous indiscretions. I disagree with you but I still admire you for once again being the dissenting voice.

[trsent]

To one and all:

I did not contact Steve for an explanation as, at the time I posted, the auctions each had less than 24 hours before closing. I made a judgment call, figuring that, even if he had decided to respond, the response wouldn't have made it to me in time to then make the post. If this route of action disappoints Joel, or any other forum members, I offer my apologies...time was an issue here, and I didn't want to see a forum member bid on a questionable item.

Judging by most of the responses on this thread, I feel i made the right choice. And, I agree with many of the posters...this guy has NOT learned his lesson.

Dave Miedema


Agree or disagree with Joel, the man is certainly for equality for all and following the rules. Honestly, I hope he is on my jury if I am ever accused of something as he has proven to be able to look past the scumbag in the name of the law. He isn't wrong either, wanting us all to follow the board rules.

That being said Joel, the guy punked Dave, a man you have shown loyalty to as a friend. Mr. Miedema seems to have gotten the short stick and lost integrity in this hobby when he wasn't to blame.

I will reiterate what I said before, it is admirable that you are willing to see past Berg's previous indiscretions. I disagree with you but I still admire you for once again being the dissenting voice.

Good, everyone made valid points. Thanks Dave for explaining more.

I think the previous thread from 2006 I posted shows my beliefs and loyalty to Dave. I am a big fan!

I was just confused by the way the first post was made, and at the end Dave explained himself well.