Why Did this Schmidt jersey go so cheap

[LHG39]

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=290026503804&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT#la-image-5

This is from the Geppi's auction. I know it does not say Game worn, but it appears to be at least team issued, it is autographed by Schmidt and it went for the same price as a Mitchell & Ness. Any thoughts on why?

[sportscentury]

Howard is the man when it comes to Phillies....and he could probably best list all of the differences between this jersey and a 77 Schmidt game jersey. But I will say that this jersey isn't close ... I don't even know where to start. The numbering is wrong, the lettering is wrong, the tagging is wrong, etc. I just picked up a superb Steve Carlton 1977 game worn road jersey ... and it couldn't be more different from this Schmidt jersey with the 77 tag.

Reid

[ironmanfan]

What a piece of garbage!!

[sportscentury]

What a piece of garbage!!

Bill:

Apparently, you are more succinct than I am. Yes, I agree. It's a great $30 shirt to wear to Citizens Bank Ballpark.

Reid

[hblakewolf]

Reid summed it up best. Nothing about this is correct:
*Wrong # style
*NOB is a total hand-cut mess
*Tagging is wrong

What's interesting is that Geppi never described the jersey as "game worn", just noted in the description that is shows a little wear (I guess indicating that the previous owner may have worn it out to the curb to take the recycling out). Even the $300. is about $299. too much for this!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[LHG39]

Thanks guys. I actually bid on this, never thinking I would win; more trying out the Live Auction for a couple of things I wanted today.

I emailed Geppi's asking them about this. While they did not say it was game used, I think their description is misleading at best. How can a "major" auction house sell something like this with such a misleading description. Should it not be safe for a bidder to at least be able to assume that if a jersey is being sold by a reputable auction house and has year tagging and player name in the neck that the jersey is at least team issued unless it is described as otherwise?

[LHG39]

This is Geppi's response:

From: "Al Croce" <cal@gmrs.com>
[Add to Address Book] (http://mailcenter2.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/450846CC00092DAC00002910221348437308040A0000079D09 ?cmd=ABEntryForm&et=1&dir=abldap&sid=c0&rec=&ab_email1=cal%40gmrs%2Ecom&ab_name_first=Al&ab_name_last=Croce&&endrec&) To: <griffelh@comcast.net>Subject: RE: You Won eBay Item: Mike Schmidt Signed 1970s Phillies Home Jersey (290026503804)Date: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:54:03 PM Wed, 13 Sep 2006 17:54:03 +0000 [View Source] (http://mailcenter2.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/450846CC00092DAC00002910221348437308040A0000079D09 ?cmd=ShowSrc&no=1027&uid=80687&sid=c0) http://mailcenter2.comcast.net/wm/images/general/pixelclear.gif.SectionTitle { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif}.SmallTitle { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif}.SectionBody { FONT-SIZE: x-small; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif}BODY { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif}TD { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif}.max { WIDTH: 100%}.DetailTable { FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif}.DetailTable TH { FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif}.Title { FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, arial, sans-serif}.BodyFont { FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif}.BodyFontStrong { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif}.SmallBody { MARGIN-TOP: 8px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: xx-small; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif}.Separator { COLOR: #cccccc; HEIGHT: 1px}.HighlightedSeparator { COLOR: #9999cc; HEIGHT: 1px}.TableBorderTip { BORDER-RIGHT: #6b7b91 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #6b7b91 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #6b7b91 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #6b7b91 1px solid}.FooterSeparator { HEIGHT: 1px}.Footer { MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT-SIZE: xx-small; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 8px; COLOR: #666666; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif}.Footer P { MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT-SIZE: xx-small; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 8px; COLOR: #666666; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif}.SmallPara { MARGIN-TOP: 8px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6px}.SmallParap { MARGIN-TOP: 8px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 6px}.at { MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 2px; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: arial,}.ItemDetailStyle { BORDER-TOP: #e0e0e0 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: #e0e0e0; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #e0e0e0; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: solid; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: solid; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #e0e0e0; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: solid}.buyerDetailStyle { BORDER-RIGHT: #e0e0e0 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #e0e0e0 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #e0e0e0 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #e0e0e0 1px solid}.mstUl { MARGIN-TOP: 5px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5px}.mstLi { PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; LINE-HEIGHT: 120%; PADDING-TOP: 3px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: square}.ItemTitle { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif}.SmallNotes { FONT-SIZE: xx-small; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif}
The jersey was NOT authenticated. It was, in fact, a store bought jersey and signed by Schmidt. The signature was authenticated. We NEVER said the jersey was authentic.



What a bunch of bunk. If they KNEW it was store bought, shouldn't the item description have said that, instead of going into the detail of describing the "77 2" tag and "Schmidt" chain stitching in the neck? I feel that they have grossly misrepresented this item.

Any advice from anyone?

[hblakewolf]

I'd like to know what store sold Phillies jerseys with year tags and names embroidered in the collar. Gold Medal in Philadelphia sold replicas, however, not with this type of tags. Ask them this specific question.

They were extremely careful in the way the described the jersey, even the fact that is shows "wear". I agree, one could easily assume it was a gamer, however, then again we can never assume in this hobby.

Have you already paid for it? If not, this may be your only way out.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[LHG39]

I have not yet paid, which is why I am asking for advice. I do not think I should have to pay, given their misleading description. I did write them back asking specific questions, namely, if they knew it was a store bought jersey and are telling me this now, why did they not say so in the item description. I also pointed out, as you mention, that store bought jerseys do not typically have year/set tags or player names embroidered in the neck.

I do not want to get into trouble with ebay either, though. I have aperfect feedback score until now.




I'd like to know what store sold Phillies jerseys with year tags and names embroidered in the collar. Gold Medal in Philadelphia sold replicas, however, not with this type of tags. Ask them this specific question.

They were extremely careful in the way the described the jersey, even the fact that is shows "wear". I agree, one could easily assume it was a gamer, however, then again we can never assume in this hobby.

Have you already paid for it? If not, this may be your only way out.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[skipcareyisfat]

It might've been better to bring up these questions before the auction ended. You can at least retract your bid. At any rate, I'd much rather receive nagative feedback than pay $300 for something that isn't even worth $30. I say shame on them for using a misleading description.

[kingjammy24]

worst case scenario, i'd rather deal with 1 negative or simply getting a new ebay account than pay $300 for a store jersey.

rudy.

[LHG39]

I am negotiating with them via email. I have simply asked why they did not state that this was a store bought jesey and all they are verifying is the signature.

He offered that info very readily when I raised the issue now. What was that info not in the item description?

[hblakewolf]

...or better yet, pay for it and send it to Lou Lampson for a LOA. Who knows-your $300. may quickly turn into $3,000!

Just a wild idea!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[LHG39]

Sure, tease me why don't ya!

They now admit in an email that the jersey is store bought! Why didn't they state that in the item description?! Yet they still maintain that the item description is accurate and want to know why I feel it was misleading.



...or better yet, pay for it and send it to Lou Lampson for a LOA. Who knows-your $300. may quickly turn into $3,000!

Just a wild idea!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[otismalibu]

Last year, an eBay seller (who used to post here) listed a retail Philly hoops jersey which also had a year tag added. It wasn't signed, but IIRC the description stated it was "game issued"...which it was not. The seller was informed of this during the auction, but made no changes to the description. It too sold for around $300.

[trsent]

Sure, tease me why don't ya!

They now admit in an email that the jersey is store bought! Why didn't they state that in the item description?! Yet they still maintain that the item description is accurate and want to know why I feel it was misleading.

I just do not understand why they would say, "This jersey was bought in a store" in their description. I understand their description may have been misleading, but who ever lists items as "I bought this in the store" or 'I stole this from the commissary"?

[otismalibu]

I just do not understand why they would say, "This jersey was bought in a store" in their description.


The following is from the auction description.

The jersey has a full front metal zipper, a strip tag reading "77 2" on the tail, and "Schmidt" chain stitched on a strip tag in the collar.

Is the strip tag and chain stitched name, standard on any retail jerseys?

[trsent]

The following is from the auction description.

The jersey has a full front metal zipper, a strip tag reading "77 2" on the tail, and "Schmidt" chain stitched on a strip tag in the collar.

Is the strip tag and chain stitched name, standard on any retail jerseys?

Ok, I see how their description is vague, but questions should be asked before placing a bid, right? The seller did nothing wrong, they described their item. Did they lie or mislead in any way?

I just think when the seller writes a description for an item, they have a right as long as they do not lie to list it as they wish. The bidder has a responsibility to ask questions. If I thought this was a game used jersey I would have asked why a MEARS letter didn't accompany the lot.

Mark, if you wish to reply to my posts, please include highlighting of the entire previous entry I made so that you are not picking on single sentences that could be then taken out of context. I appreciate it.

[trsent]

Oops, I meant Greg in the last sentance of my reply above, not Mark! :)

[stkmtimo]

Joel,
They didn't have to say "This was bought in a store." They could have said "This store bought jersey...blah blah" and then go into the specifics rather than listing it at $300 with a very misleading description. Just my view.

Tim

[trsent]

Joel,
They didn't have to say "This was bought in a store." They could have said "This store bought jersey...blah blah" and then go into the specifics rather than listing it at $300 with a very misleading description. Just my view.

Tim

Again, it is their auction. They list an item to realize the highest price and they didn't feel like using a term that we use here on GUU forum but many people and dealers are not familiar with that expression.

I admit, the description was vague, but would anyone have bought this thinking it was game used or issued without a MEARS LOO? At the same time, why wouldn't questions have been asked before placing a bid since the description was vague.

If a customer is not satisfied, I'd ask to be released from the bid. A professional auction house would do this no problem for a small dollar item such as this and they know the description was vague.

[otismalibu]

Ask them if they added the year tag and the chain stitching.

[sportscentury]

Louis,

I would suggest that you call Geppi's, explain the situation (your confusion and frustration, what you've learned since winning the item, etc.), and see if they will work with you on it (i.e., drop the whole thing). It may not be that big a deal, especially since it is a low-dollar item.

I had bid on several items in Geppi's (won nothing, as usual), but there was one item that I had bid on that I learned more about after I placed my bid. I simply emailed them and explained the situation and they sent me an email back the next day saying that they retracted my bid for me. I thought that was AOK of them. I realize that your situation is different, but you may find that they handle this quite reasonably.

Best of luck either way,
Reid

P.S. Also, someone asked if this is a retail shirt. Because this jersey was constructed, it is hard to say exactly what it was originally. Retail shirts such as this one were never sold (I'd be amazed if I am wrong about this), at least not to the best of my knowledge. Even Geppi's response that the shirt was "store-bought" does not explain the shirt as I am sure that it was not "store-bought" in the condition in which it was auctioned off in this auction. An early version of it (prior to it being altered in several ways) may have been a store-bought shirt.

[LHG39]

I appreciate everyone's input. After several back and forth emails they have agreed to cancel my bid.

The reason I did not call for more info is simple. My decision to bid was a last minute decision and I naively thought that items in an auction of this caliber with all of the Rizzuto and Staub game worn items would be appropriately represented. My thinking was that if they are listing this jersey, describing the tagging and stating James Spence Authentication then at the very least it was a team issued jersey. I know it had a relatively low estimate, but a lot of items had ridiculously low estimates. When I bid and then I saw I won for $300 I immediately thought, woow, something must be wrong here. Where does it say that James Spence is only authenticating the autograph???

While yes, everything they said was ture, it is very hard to argue that it was not misleading. Perhaps they did not have to say "store-bought", but they should have said not game worn or team issued. Everyone knows what year/set tagging implies, and they clearly were happy to imply without stating anything that was an out and out lie.

As it appears that everything will work out, I am happy for myself, but still a bit chagrined at the process. Everyone knows that eBay is caveat emptor, and I have been emptored my fair share, but If one cannot trust major auction houses, what does that say?

[trsent]

I appreciate everyone's input. After several back and forth emails they have agreed to cancel my bid.

The reason I did not call for more info is simple. My decision to bid was a last minute decision and I naively thought that items in an auction of this caliber with all of the Rizzuto and Staub game worn items would be appropriately represented. My thinking was that if they are listing this jersey, describing the tagging and stating James Spence Authentication then at the very least it was a team issued jersey. I know it had a relatively low estimate, but a lot of items had ridiculously low estimates. When I bid and then I saw I won for $300 I immediately thought, woow, something must be wrong here. Where does it say that James Spence is only authenticating the autograph???

While yes, everything they said was ture, it is very hard to argue that it was not misleading. Perhaps they did not have to say "store-bought", but they should have said not game worn or team issued. Everyone knows what year/set tagging implies, and they clearly were happy to imply without stating anything that was an out and out lie.

As it appears that everything will work out, I am happy for myself, but still a bit chagrined at the process. Everyone knows that eBay is caveat emptor, and I have been emptored my fair share, but If one cannot trust major auction houses, what does that say?

We complain all the time about basic eBay auctions that do not go into enough detail and similar issues arise. This was an unfortunate situation that was professionally resolved by the auction house.

[kingjammy24]

"If one cannot trust major auction houses, what does that say?"

it says you can't trust auction houses. if you can't trust them, then who can you trust? yourself.

don't rely on auction houses, dealers, or authenticators to look out for your best interests.

rudy.

[sammy]

Geppi's is shopping the shirt around if anyone is interested.

Just give them a call and make an offer.