Superstar Jersey Wear

[hblakewolf]

Forum Readers-
I was just reading part of a Lampson LOA for a Jeter Yankees game worn jersey on Ebay.

I find the following line to be extremely interesting, "Technically, the jersey appears to be correct in all facets, has no alterations and shows light but consistent wear, which is apropo for a superstar jersey of Jeter's magnitude"

I've had quite a few jerseys in my days, both superstar, commons and coaches. what I usually find with superstar jerseys is that they show the same or even more wear than the scrubs, commons and coaches.

Unless I'm mistaken, Jeter was not known to order extra jerseys, nor did the Yankees sell extra jerseys. As such, what is this "wear" statement based on and why would it not show wear as compared to other Yankees home jerseys from this same season?


The link is attached:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Derek-Jeter-2002-Game-Worn-Used-Yankees-Home-Jersey_W0QQitemZ190030440538QQihZ009QQcategoryZ605 97QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

Forum Readers-
I was just reading part of a Lampson LOA for a Jeter Yankees game worn jersey on Ebay.

I find the following line to be extremely interesting, "Technically, the jersey appears to be correct in all facets, has no alterations and shows light but consistent wear, which is apropo for a superstar jersey of Jeter's magnitude"

I've had quite a few jerseys in my days, both superstar, commons and coaches. what I usually find with superstar jerseys is that they show the same or even more wear than the scrubs, commons and coaches.

Unless I'm mistaken, Jeter was not known to order extra jerseys, nor did the Yankees sell extra jerseys. As such, what is this "wear" statement based on and why would it not show wear as compared to other Yankees home jerseys from this same season?


The link is attached:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Derek-Jeter-2002-Game-Worn-Used-Yankees-Home-Jersey_W0QQitemZ190030440538QQihZ009QQcategoryZ605 97QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Too bad Lou doesn't have a phone number or email address so the public can contact him and ask him questions such as the one Howard has made above.

What good is a LOA if there is no contact information of the authenticator available?

[stkmtimo]

Has Lou Lampson ever gotten anything right? I'm not saying he's wrong here but it just seems like he's wrong a whole lot more than he is right.

Tim

[trsent]

Has Lou Lampson ever gotten anything right? I'm not saying he's wrong here but it just seems like he's wrong a whole lot more than he is right.

Tim

Tim, here is the problem.

We do not know how many items Lou has written LOAs for. I bet he has gotten many more right than wrong over the years. The Derek Jeter jersey in this thread may be good, but that is not the issue here. The issue is that Lou gave his reasoning and there is no way to contact him to ask how he used a reasoning that an interested party, Howard Wolf, has concern about why his determination was based on a theory that appears backyards to Howard.

From what I have heard, Lou is the best on vintage NFL jerseys. Beyond that is anyone's guess. I'd theory that the users of this forum find issues with items and discuss it, but when an item is good that Lou has written a letter for you never hear about it.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Didn't The Lampson adopt a new grading scale like MEARS? 5, 6, 8, 5.5, 7.5 and so on? Correct me if I am wrong.

Was The Lampson at the 2000 National in Anaheim? Does anyone know for sure? I could not find him in Anaheim at this summer's National. I looked.

[trsent]

Didn't The Lampson adopt a new grading scale like MEARS? 5, 6, 8, 5.5, 7.5 and so on? Correct me if I am wrong.

Was The Lampson at the 2000 National in Anaheim? Does anyone know for sure? I could not find him in Anaheim at this summer's National. I looked.

You should have checked the AMI booth, I hear he is often found there.

Yes, Lou now has a grading system. I believe details are soon to be released on his web site.

[stkmtimo]

Tim, here is the problem.

We do not know how many items Lou has written LOAs for. I bet he has gotten many more right than wrong over the years. The Derek Jeter jersey in this thread may be good, but that is not the issue here. The issue is that Lou gave his reasoning and there is no way to contact him to ask how he used a reasoning that an interested party, Howard Wolf, has concern about why his determination was based on a theory that appears backyards to Howard.

From what I have heard, Lou is the best on vintage NFL jerseys. Beyond that is anyone's guess. I'd theory that the users of this forum find issues with items and discuss it, but when an item is good that Lou has written a letter for you never hear about it.

Joel,

Good points. We all are interested when Lampson makes a mistake or says something curious (like Howard brought up) and I know many people would love to question him. I am especially interested in that Green St. Patrick's Day Ripken jersey that he wrote the letter for but as you said, how can someone even contact him if he doesn't have his contact information available anywhere?

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but does 100% Authentic have his contact information? Maybe someone can go that route to attempt to establish contact with Lou. To be honest, I've never even heard of anyone talking to him personally. Has anyone here met him?

Tim

[both-teams-played-hard]

You should have checked the AMI booth, I hear he is often found there.

Yes, Lou now has a grading system. I believe details are soon to be released on his web site.

A website, but no e-mail. Sounds about right.

[Jake51]

A link to Lou's picture.

http://www.100percentauthentic.com/Authenticators.asp

[kingjammy24]

people never seem to look like what you expect. why did i imagine lou looking more like this? (i know, i know, i watch too much tv).

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/6826/lampez9.jpg



rudy.

[sportscentury]

A link to Lou's picture.

http://www.100percentauthentic.com/Authenticators.asp

Jake and others,

I noticed that, in the bottom left corner of Lou's website, there is an address for 100% Authentic:

100% Authentic, Inc.
7500 W. Lake Mead Blvd #9-308
Las Vegas, NV 89128
At first, I thought... well, at least that is a way to contact Lou and his company. But, then I realized that this is the address for American Memorabilia. Does American Memorabilia own 100% Authentic? If so, how can Lou Lampson and 100% Authentic be considered a third-party authenticator? Just curious.

- - - - - -

Rudy,

You've outdone yourself with this one. Classic!

- - - - - -

Dave/CollectGU,

Please note that I am waiting for your usual retaliatory response. I apologize, in advance, for simply asking questions about your friends at AMI/100% Authentic. Time to unleash your fury!

Reid

[Jake51]

Hi Reid - I don't know, I just found this doing a search on Lou. Also, I second your post on Rudy's work - fantastic!

[stkmtimo]

Rudy,

That's hilarious! The St. Patrick's Day Ripken makes an appearance!

Tim

[kingjammy24]

i too am a little confused regarding the relationship between AMI and 100% Authentic.

here is the internet domain information for 100PERCENTAUTHENTIC.COM:

Organization:
ami
kieta kieta
8301 aqua spray
las vegas, NV 89128
US
Phone: 702-243-7822
Email: ami21@lvcm.com

Administrative Contact:
ami
kieta kieta
8301 aqua spray
las vegas, NV 89128
US
Phone: 702-243-7822
Email: kieta@americanmemorabilia.com

here are the servers for 100percentauthentic.com:

NS1.CAMSI.COM 216.133.66.136
NS2.CAMSI.COM 216.133.66.199

here are the servers for americanmemorabilia.com:

NS1.CAMSI.COM 216.133.66.136
NS2.CAMSI.COM 216.133.66.199

is 100% Authentic a division of AMI?

is Denny Esken no longer with 100% Authentic?

rudy.

[worldchamps]

Is there a chance he does not exist? Or that it is an alias? There is no way someone could be involved this heavily in this hobby and no one have any contact with the guy. Wouldn't you think he has an ebay account. Wouldn't you think he looks at this web site. If my name was dragged through the mud, I sure would want to know who and why.

Surely someone who caries some weight albeit spends money with or supplies with memorabilia can lean on one of these auction houses and get a message to this guy?

Am I right?

Bill......or am I "Lou"..... ha ha ha

[both-teams-played-hard]

A fellow forum member (who wishes to remain anonymous) sent me this photo from his summer vacation to Cooperstown.
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/9057/loulampson12yn6.jpg

[otismalibu]

I typed Lou Lampson into an anagram generator and it spit out...

No Plum LOAs

[worldchamps]

When you think about the volume of items all the auction houses sell and how much he gets per letter that would make a pretty nice living.

Some of you guys here that are really knowledgable should do them too.....You could sell your services to the auction company as.....Hey if I am doing the letters you will not have to answer all my emails saying half your stuff is wrong!!! Ha ha

Of course the auction houses wouldn't make as much because they would have half the inventory.

Since joining this site I am so amazed by how much stuff is bad. I used to be in the belief that the auction houses were the experts and if they are selling it, it has to be real. This site has proven that to me to be false. I can not fathom how much stuff is bad. The knock on the hobby used to be 50% of autographs are fake, it seems game used is worse.

I recently got burnt on an item ( a member helped me figure this out), luckily I got a full refund. So not everyone in the world is evil.

Bill

[trsent]

That address on Lake Mead Blvd. in Las Vegas looks like a Mail Box Etc. type of address.

[CollectGU]

Dave/CollectGU,

Please note that I am waiting for your usual retaliatory response. I apologize, in advance, for simply asking questions about your friends at AMI/100% Authentic. Time to unleash your fury!

Reid


Reid,

There is no need for me to retaliate as you have not unfairly attacked anyone with your post. I believe that 100% authentic is simply the company used to write the COA for AMI so that they can track their Lampson/Case/Esken authenticated items they have sold similiar to the way Mastronet puts their name on MEARS COA's. This way they can differentiate from generic Lamson COA's out there, and if a problem with an item comes up in the future they can be sure it originated from them and rectify the situation with the collector if necessary. The owners of AMI ultimately decide what they want to run with whether or not Lou thinks its good, and this helps them track the items...They do not do third party authentications for a fee.

Dave

[CollectGU]

Reid,

This is slightly off topic, but I'd like your opinion (honestly) on the Yogi Berra mask issue with MEARS? Is it equal, worse, or not as bad as the Lampson St. Patty's day mistake? You can find the discussion on the MEARS forum under baseball page 7...

Dave

[sportscentury]

Reid,

There is no need for me to retaliate as you have not unfairly attacked anyone with your post. I believe that 100% authentic is simply the company used to write the COA for AMI so that they can track their Lampson/Case/Esken authenticated items they have sold similiar to the way Mastronet puts their name on MEARS COA's. This way they can differentiate from generic Lamson COA's out there, and if a problem with an item comes up in the future they can be sure it originated from them and rectify the situation with the collector if necessary. The owners of AMI ultimately decide what they want to run with whether or not Lou thinks its good, and this helps them track the items...They do not do third party authentications for a fee.

Dave


Reid,

This is slightly off topic, but I'd like your opinion (honestly) on the Yogi Berra mask issue with MEARS? Is it equal, worse, or not as bad as the Lampson St. Patty's day mistake? You can find the discussion on the MEARS forum under baseball page 7...

Dave

Dave,

Is this really you? An imposter perhaps? I just don't recognize this kind of response - it seems so reasonable! Where is the spite? The hate? The venom? Could this be the new and improved Dave? JUST KIDDING YOU!

Seriously, I think you're idea is a fine one. Why don't you start a new thread and title it as follows: "MEARS Berra Mask versus Lampson St. Patty's Day Ripken Jersey?" In your initial post, you can supply the links to the discussions of these two situations so that forum members can learn a bit (or at least get a refresher) before they chime in. We can open it up to everyone on the forum - could be an interesting and fun discussion. I promise you that I'll give you my honest impression of both situations. I hope others GUF members will, too.

Sound fair?

Also, you have called Howard Wolf "obsessed" with respect to the Green Ripken jersey. You must admit that you are quite "taken" (I'm being polite) by the Berra mask situation, no? With this said, I believe that both situations are worthy of analysis and discussion.

Reid

[kingjammy24]

dave,

that was a sorely disappointing display of fury. i was looking forward to a real whoopin, rocco-style. when i saw that both you and reid were logged on, i cracked open some bartles & james in anticipation of the festivities.

at any rate, i still don't quite understand the relationship between ami and 100% authentic. i can find the business license record for ami, yet i can't find it for 100% authentic which is odd. is 100% authentic not registered as a separate business entity in the state of nevada? given that they have the same address, use the same servers, have their websites registered to the same person, are they in effect the same company?

i'm not sure how much of a comparison the berra mask is against the st.pats jersey given that the berra mask actually existed. whether it was a store model or actually came from a little old man who got it out of the clubhouse is ultimately conjecture on either end. on the other hand, the entire notion of a st.pats jersey was a figment of lou's vivid imagination.

however, if you're still itchin for a comparison of best blunders ever, may i recommend pitting the lampson st.pats jersey against the scot monette-supplied, 2004 clemens which appeared in a VA auction, authenticated by master bushing and his highly detail-oriented, research staff? none of whom were apparently able to find out what colors the numbers should be on a 2004 astros jersey. (perhaps the error could've been caught with the "correct use of advanced imagery analysis").

(previously, i thought it was only 1 guy making these errors. now i find out he's got an entire support staff helping him. i can see how 1 person can miss something, but 4 or 5?! reminds me of a poster i once saw that read "teamwork: we can screw up much faster if we work together".)

rudy.

[sportscentury]

Rudy,

Sorry you were disappointed - I expected a much more combative response, too. I didn't realize that you are a B&J man. I had kicked back and was enjoying a Sam Adams myself. Oh well.

Like you, I don't see the Berra mask and the St. Patty's Day Ripken shirt as equals, though I think it is a fine topic for GUF discussion. Perhaps the thread should be opened up to several recent controversial authentications. Howard likes the St. Pats Ripken shirt; Dave prefers the Berra mask; Chris and Mike would likely vote for the Speaker bat; you have brought up the '04 Clemens shirt. I'm sure other GUF members have different ideas. The thread could ask: "What do you think is the most horrendous authentication error...and why?"

As for the issues you raised regarding Lou, 100% Authentic, and American Memorabilia, I'll leave these issues to Dave's expertise.

Reid

[Lay off the petshop dame Rocky]

Hello everyone,
My first post so I apologize in advance if I hit some incorrect buttons. Believe it or not, Lou Lampson exists. Before he became an authenticator, I heard about his collection through an article in SCD and contacted the author of the article, somewhere around ten years ago. He put me in touch with Lou, and we discussed a vintage NBA item. I sent it to him and he replied with a thorough three page analysis of the item, comparing it to a similar item he had handled previously. He returned it and I still have his letter, so no, I can't explain the current LOA's. The major flaw with authenticating, especially modern items, is that no one person can or should analyze every team. The auction houses are trying to beat LY sales, so I imagine any authenticator is under pressure to approve items. Unfortunately for them, the end result is that collectors become wary and stop bidding or bid less frequently. We need the authenticators to say "I don't know" more often. Thx for your time, K

[Birdbats]

I wasn't aware of the 100% Authentic site until I read this thread, but I'm sure glad I found it. Whenever I read through the Certificates Issued section, the humor just brightens my day. Of course, I'm most interested in Pujols items. Here's my favorite passage, in the description for an alleged 2001 jersey:

"Note the absence of velcro in the button path--this is a phenomenon found only in Pujols' first year shirts."

Wow! I didn't know that. Actually, the Cards used velcro in their early batches of 2003 jerseys. Those first Majestic shirts wouldn't stay closed, I guess because of the weight of the embroidered logo. Looked horrible. So as a fix, they attached velcro under the bat to keep them closed. Later shipments of Majestic jerseys corrected the problem and velcro has not been used since 2003.

There are two 2003 road jerseys that have certificates, but they apparently aren't the same jersey because the velcro is in two different places. They both, though, have the oversized spacing between buttons 2 and 3, which means both were made for spring training. That fact isn't noted in either certificate.

Two other "approved" jerseys (certificates #9818 and 10120) have comically long nameplates.

The sad thing is, it wouldn't take a lot of research to uncover these things.

Jeff
http://www.birdbats.com

[hblakewolf]

...let's not forget about this fine blunder, either:

Late 1980's Larry Bowa Game Worn Batting Practice Jersey.
9641
5/17/2004



http://www.100percentauthentic.com/assets/itemimages/6234_th.jpg (http://www.100percentauthentic.com/CertList.asp?SearchStr=phillies&offset=50#) Red mesh pre-game jersey shows particularly strong wear from this great baseball mind, dating from his days as a coach for the Phillies. White tackle twill team nickname sewn to chest, with "Bowa 2" on verso. Number "2" patch on left sleeve as well; Bowa has signed the right sleeve in perfect red sharpie. "Rawlings [size] 42" label in tail


FYI-The Phillies changed from solid knit to mesh BP's in 1990. Likewise, the Rawlings white tag as shown was first used in 1990, also.

Great research, Lou!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedi.net

[CollectGU]

Rudy,

I can't believe you compared me to Rocco ...but more disturbing to me is the fact that you like to kick back with a "fruity" Bartles & James wine cooler....As for all the server questions and registered businesses etc.., feel free to call AMI as i have no idea. The only reason i knew the answer to 100% Authentic is because i asked a while back..Call me crazy, but at the time the explanation made good business sense...

Dave

[suave1477]

Well I would like to say you guys are hysterical I was peeing my pants when I saw the Lou Lampson Hall of Fame plaque - Who ever did that one your a genius!!!!

I would like to add something interesting to this topic, a few months back I met with some people from American Memorabilia and out of my own personal curiousity I questioned them about using Lou Lampson as there authenticator, due to noticing how many items per auction that he authenticates and gets them wrong from items that members here have brought to light to items I have sseen him authenticate.

So my basic question was why do you feel compelled to use Lou Lampson to authenticate your items when he consistantly gets so many wrong?
They asked well how many would you say he gets wrong? I answered on average about 3 ( I thought 3 was a safe number to say since thats about average of what has been brought to light from memebers here and what I have seen)
AMI answer - Well if he only gets 3 wrong per auction then thats fine.

I was a bit blown back by this response because if you authenticate 10 or 500 items to me 3 per Auction is still pretty bad - if you add that up through the year thats a lot of fake items making its way on to the open market.

From a business stand point that was a poor response because if a business wants to look good you will at least get a "We will look into it response" or "That is not acceptable and we will try to correct the problem" not "Only 3......Thats fine with us"

Thats just my 2 cents you guys can get out of that what youu want!!!

[stkmtimo]

Has anyone ever met Lou? He may not actually exist.

Tim

[kingjammy24]

dave,

i'm assuming you aren't interested in participating in a "worst authentication ever" thread? could be fun? we could set it up as a poll with everyone voting to determine the worst authentication ever.
i've got two in mind to occupy the top spots and neither of them are the st.pats jersey and neither are from mears!

rudy.