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View Full Version : Gary Carter 86 WS game used jersey at the Mets HOF



metsbats
09-11-2011, 09:10 PM
I was at Citi Field at the Mets HOF this weekend and on display was an 86 World Series game used jersey worn by Gary Carter. The jersey is a home pinstripe Goodman with 25 Anniversary patch.

Problem number one with this jersey is it did not have the Set P tagging which is typically found on 86 post season jerseys.

Problem number two is an even bigger problem. I went thru each home game from the 86 WS and took some stills of Carter. From the stills looks like Carter wore the same jersey in games 1,2, 6, & 7 of the 86 WS however it certainly was NOT the jersey on display at the Mets Museum.

This is the third time a piece of memoribilia signed as being game used or implied game used in the 86 World series but has been proven otherwise. (Mookie Wilson and Lenny Dystra bats being the other two).

sox83cubs84
09-11-2011, 09:25 PM
Not the first time a team has screwed up, David.

For many years at old County Stadium, the Brewers had a display with what was supposed to be Hank Aaron's last jersey. The home white on display, however, was a 1974 home #44 Gorman Thomas...Aaron last played in 1976. Once the error became publicized in my old SCD column and other places, the Brewers slightly adjuted the display, keeping the Thomas jersey there, but folding under the "44 74" tail tag that ID'd it as Stormin' Gorman's.

Likewise, the White Sox have had in their possessiobn for decades a well-done forgery of a 1974 road Dick Allen jersey, discernable only by the tags. This jersey bounced around the hobby for 15 years or so before ending up in the team's possession. It was displayed in their team HoF display on the main concourse, with the Sox, like the Brewers, rearranging the display to obscure the tags after I wrote about it in SCD. I haven't been inside their team Hof display for a few years, but the shirt makes an appearance (15 side up) in the team's stirring pregame scoreboard video in the earlier portion where Sox memorabilia is displayed.

Dave Miedema

metsmetsmets
09-11-2011, 10:57 PM
The horizontal cross-stroke on the "t" in "Mets" on the displayed jersey ends in between pinstripes.

But on the jersey(s) Carter is shown wearing in the still photos, the horizontal cross-stroke on the "t" in "Mets" ends virtually right on a pinstripe.

Dolphins23
09-11-2011, 11:21 PM
LOL look at the S lineup on the pinstripes so off!

Knowing the METS MAD-OFF brobably swopped them and sold the reals haha


P.S My prayers go out to Carter and his family. Such a shame.

gingi79
09-12-2011, 12:29 AM
Completely unacceptable. I started a whole thread on photomatching becoming the only acceptable form of authentication and here we have a sports team displaying a jersey that is not what it is proported to be and a definitive non-match to the real one.

Dave is most likely a long time Mets fan and disproving it must have taken him entire MINUTES of his life. It's too bad he was more concerned with getting it right than making it look good for the public or the team might have been forced to actually show the jersey he wore versus an obviously NOT WORN WS jersey.

Look I don't like the Mets but with all they have put their poor fans through since 2000, I'd expect more from them. And I do have a theory.


If I could just throw out a hair brained cynical response. Is it possible they did it on purpose? Like, could ownership be in a logical dire fear of the financial hammer that may fall, claim it as the motivation for purposely putting the replica there as the claimed real deal? If the IRS cleans them out to recoup loses and consider the Carter (the only HOFer and the Mets best ever season) at market value, they could keep the real one and get paid for the fake? Sure we are talking about millions of dollars versus thousands but every little bit helps!

Queens is a cesspool at times as well. Fear of theft?

Carter loans it out of fear he never sees it again and fakes the GU inscription?


No matter what, another ugly mark on the team. I said it before but it bears repeating. Jerseys, helmets, gloves and bats without photomatches will one day have so many perceived red flags that even if they are real, they will be treated like store bought replicas without it.

metsbats
09-12-2011, 06:21 AM
Just a word on the Mets HOF and how items are obtained for display. The majority of the items on display are loaned from 1) the players themselves, 2) the Baseball Hall of Fame, 3) the Mets 4) private collectors. The Carter jersey on display is on loan from a private collector.

The Mets like most teams do not have an authentication expert on staff and often rely on information from collectors like ourselves. Prior to the opening of the Mets HOF this year Nick (tnt_toys) and a group of us were at Citi Field and he spotted a Carter jersey proported used in 1986 which had the NOB without the nameplate (a Goodman with proper tagging too!). The Mets notified the private collector of the issue and returned the jersey to him.

Unfortunately this jersey was the replacement jersey for that one and it fell under the radar. So the Mets have no bad intentions here nor do they plan or want to display unauthentic items at the HOF musuem.

I've notified the Mets via email last night and certainly hope they will take some action to notify the private collector.

I feel more badly for the collector who sunk down a massive amount of $$ thinking this jersey was game worn in the 86 WS.

I am also baffled once again by the inscription that Gary Carter put on this jersy indicating it was worn in the 86 WS when photographic evidence proves otherwise.

Like I said previously this the third case of an 86 Met inscribing game used or implying game use on a bat or jersey when it really was not.

A disturbing trend.

jbsportstuff
09-12-2011, 10:32 AM
Completely unacceptable. I started a whole thread on photomatching becoming the only acceptable form of authentication and here we have a sports team displaying a jersey that is not what it is proported to be and a definitive non-match to the real one.

Dave is most likely a long time Mets fan and disproving it must have taken him entire MINUTES of his life. It's too bad he was more concerned with getting it right than making it look good for the public or the team might have been forced to actually show the jersey he wore versus an obviously NOT WORN WS jersey.

Look I don't like the Mets but with all they have put their poor fans through since 2000, I'd expect more from them. And I do have a theory.


If I could just throw out a hair brained cynical response. Is it possible they did it on purpose? Like, could ownership be in a logical dire fear of the financial hammer that may fall, claim it as the motivation for purposely putting the replica there as the claimed real deal? If the IRS cleans them out to recoup loses and consider the Carter (the only HOFer and the Mets best ever season) at market value, they could keep the real one and get paid for the fake? Sure we are talking about millions of dollars versus thousands but every little bit helps!

Queens is a cesspool at times as well. Fear of theft?

Carter loans it out of fear he never sees it again and fakes the GU inscription?


No matter what, another ugly mark on the team. I said it before but it bears repeating. Jerseys, helmets, gloves and bats without photomatches will one day have so many perceived red flags that even if they are real, they will be treated like store bought replicas without it.

I like photomatching, but how would you photomatch the 1961 Reds jerseys on display at their HOF? How about jerseys before that? I've found it extremely difficult to photomatch anything before the 80's.

Again I do love to photomatch items, but saying that is the ONLY ACCEPTABLE way is just not plausible.

Fortunately the Reds have several experts who can easily authenticate items for their HOF.

nickacs
09-12-2011, 12:12 PM
LOL look at the S lineup on the pinstripes so off!


Not just that one, but ALL of the pinstripes don't even match one of the WS games.. LMAO
What a shame... :rolleyes:

Dolphins23
09-12-2011, 12:59 PM
whats funny is the mets probably don't even care because the avg fan is going to go wow thats cool a game worn jersey. And I'm sure thats all they really care about. No one besides "US" the GU minority will be able to tell. Everyone else which is about 99% will never know it wasn't his game jersey. Heck the METS didn't even know!

dcrules01
09-12-2011, 02:27 PM
whats funny is the mets probably don't even care because the avg fan is going to go wow thats cool a game worn jersey. And I'm sure thats all they really care about. No one besides "US" the GU minority will be able to tell. Everyone else which is about 99% will never know it wasn't his game jersey. Heck the METS didn't even know!

Its funny here David and Nick as other well know Mets collectors have spent a good portion of there time helping with the museum. They have loaned items out of there personal collections. I wonder how much experience you have in the hobby? Have you ever been duped? It happens to all of us at 1 time or another in this hobby.instead of slamming all the hard work that many Mets fans have put into the museum as well as the Mets be a little bit more mature. Because you never know the next jersey you might see and buy might be a fakeand you may post it and when someone tells you its fake you will not feel good about that. I know a good amount of Mets collectors and thet are all good guys.

metsbats
09-12-2011, 02:45 PM
As I said before I'm in contact with the Mets and they do care very much about the authenticity of items put into their museum. Again the case in point is the first bogus 86 Carter when they were told it was no good they promptly returned it to the collector before it was put on display.

In the case of the current Carter 86 jersey on display it's hand written by Gary himself that it was game worn during the 86 World series. Why would the Mets even doubt the authenticity of such an item given the inscription? I don't blame them for taking it at face value.

Fortunately (as Dolphins23 said) we all know better to do our homework.
And he's right 99% of the fans who viewed this jersey will think it's real because they see the same inscription that the Mets saw when they were first present with the jersey.

My purpose of posting this info was not to blame the victim (in this case the Mets HOF) but to inform everyone that this jersey exists as it may end up on some future auction and some other unsuspecting buyer will take it at face value that it has to be real because the player signed it as game use will be duped.

metsbats
09-12-2011, 02:58 PM
Its funny here David and Nick as other well know Mets collectors have spent a good portion of there time helping with the museum. They have loaned items out of there personal collections. I wonder how much experience you have in the hobby? Have you ever been duped? It happens to all of us at 1 time or another in this hobby.instead of slamming all the hard work that many Mets fans have put into the museum as well as the Mets be a little bit more mature. Because you never know the next jersey you might see and buy might be a fakeand you may post it and when someone tells you its fake you will not feel good about that. I know a good amount of Mets collectors and thet are all good guys.


Scott,

Dolphins23 point was that the team didn't even know and he was not referring to any collectors. This particular jersey was put on display the last minute as a replacement and I personally didn't see it till this weekend. (yes I have to admit I've not attended a Met game until last weekend :o )

I think we are still in the "US" the GU minority:)

metsbats
07-06-2016, 09:21 PM
Just an update on this jersey. I actually sent the owner of the jersey a letter with a copy of this thread and a link to this thread. No response at all. This was couple of years ago. I am sure one day this jersey will pop up in a major auction as the jersey used in the WS one day and we can start this merry go round again.