Braves make trade with teen for Chipper's 450th HR

[Ripken]

Curious if any of you have had experiences --or seen anyone else have one--with team officials regarding important items they wanted back:

Do you think this girl's family has a case on Chipper Jones' 450th home run ball (http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/time-for-teams-to-stop-predenting-home-run-balls-have-little-value/)?

[OaklandAsFan]

and what if teams do start offering "fair market value" for a milestone. First of all who is to say what fair market value is secondly then you have to worry about the tax implications of such an exchange (see Jeter's 3000k hit)

It really is a no win situation for everyone involved unless people stop getting greedy. Do I think it's fair to offer an autographed baseball for a milestone, depends on if the person getting the offer thinks it's fair.

Worst case, you can end up going back to the 1800's and early 1900's when they went into the stands and collected the foul balls and HR's. THen everyone loses out.

[brewcrew]

It seems like the parents are more upset that there was not a chaperone there to discuss the transaction with the fifteen year old and the organization. I obviously wasn't there, so I can't say how the conversation went.

But it is an interesting debate - on the one hand, many people who really don't care all that much might think an autographed ball and a hat would be a fair trade. On the other hand, all of us know that the trade was anything BUT fair in terms of the actual value of the HR ball to collectors. And in the tv interview the girl made it sound like she would have rather held onto the HR ball.

I guess I would have expected a little more from the Braves in this situation. I mean, at least have her meet Chipper and maybe have him give her a bat or a jersey or something. But that's JMHO.

[bdeol4]

It seems like the parents are more upset that there was not a chaperone there to discuss the transaction with the fifteen year old and the organization. I obviously wasn't there, so I can't say how the conversation went.

But it is an interesting debate - on the one hand, many people who really don't care all that much might think an autographed ball and a hat would be a fair trade. On the other hand, all of us know that the trade was anything BUT fair in terms of the actual value of the HR ball to collectors. And in the tv interview the girl made it sound like she would have rather held onto the HR ball.

I guess I would have expected a little more from the Braves in this situation. I mean, at least have her meet Chipper and maybe have him give her a bat or a jersey or something. But that's JMHO.

I completely agree, if the Ball means so much to Chipper and the Organization, show it!

[sox83cubs84]

Teams will often use being on their home turf and an intimidation factor in their "deals" for milestone baseballs.

In 1983, Scott Fletcher of the White Sox hit his first MLB home run. I was dating a girl who liked Fletcher at the time, and made a beeline for the area the ball had landed, with $50 in tow to offer for it.

I did find the guy who caught it, but not before White Sox security, notorious in those days for harassment and intimidation, did. The fan said that the security types didn't give him a choice...they demanded the home run ball, and gave him a brand new ball (not even autographed) in exchange.

The Cubs aren't any better...the Ballhawk who caught Rey Sanchez's first MLB HR asked to present the home run ball to Sanchez personally, and was shot down by security, who insisted that he make a deal with the guard for something worthless.

The Ballhawk who outmaneuvered me for Greg Maddux's 2nd career HR on Waveland Avenue went willingly with a couple of security guys to return the ball to Maddux, who wanted it. He never got to meet Maddux, though, as the security intermediaries gave him a cracked Dwight Smith bat and sent him back out to the street.

Seems like the Braves followed the lead of the Chicago teams in years past, using their authority to push a deal on a minor that, from what I gather, she really didn't want.

Dave Miedema

[ncbadges]

I would have thought the Braves would have more class than that.

ncb

[kylehess10]

I too am surprised how the Braves handled that. I'm trying to get a hold of the family though so I can give that girl a better offer for the ball if she can get it back.

[Dolphins23]

And this is why baseball is where it is today. (Lowest ratings in the nation as far as sports). They have no answers on how to make it better though? Righttttttttt... I couldn't tell you the last time I watched a full length baseball game. I'm a Yankees fan and used to go to 12 games a year. Now I'll go to maybe 1 game every 5 years. Baseball just isn't what it used to be and never will be. Just goes to show how quick the Braves organization will rip off a little girl to make sure they get what they want.

To be honest ever since football started I forgot baseball was even still being played. Now If I feel this way, then there are def other people who feel this way and it's just not a good sign for the lack luster sport.

[LastingsMilledge85]

And this is why baseball is where it is today. (Lowest ratings in the nation as far as sports)

Where on Earth did you pull this stat from?

[Dolphins23]

Would you really like me to show you?

[LastingsMilledge85]

Would you really like me to show you?

You saw that I asked, fire away...

[Dolphins23]

http://features.rr.com/article/07pJ79kbfH03S

http://reds.enquirer.com/2002/07/11/red_all-star_tv_ratings.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/156284-the-best-and-worst-sports-in-terms-of-sportsmanship

Just a couple of articles. I will get your ratings in a second as oppose to footballs ratings, give me a minute.

[Dolphins23]

Now I know these sites don't show proof of it being the worst sport, but if people are writing about it then it must be up there. Of course I'm not including tennis or soccer, only major U.S sports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series_television_ratings

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/08/super-bowl-2010-ratings-m_n_453503.html



If this dosn't say anything then nothing will.

[Dolphins23]

I don't want to kill this guys thread, because its unfair to him. So if you would like to further debate this, please email me southwestrep808@yahoo.com

Thanks for understanding.


-Matt

[Dolphins23]

P.S do you know how much more the games were entertaining when they didn;t take 4-5 hours and batters didn't step out of the box every pitch to tighten gloves, adjust helmets, spit chew out. I was watching the 1986 world series the other day on MLB network and the game was amazing! It was so fast and entertaining. It held my attention span the whole time, all because it felt like it was in fast forward compared to present day. Present day is an absolute joke on how long these games are now. Bud needs to really modernize his game or there will be no baseball 20 years from now. The avg person can't and wont watch a baseball game because of it. But the avg person will watch any team play football and in some cases basketball.

[LastingsMilledge85]

http://features.rr.com/article/07pJ79kbfH03S

http://reds.enquirer.com/2002/07/11/red_all-star_tv_ratings.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/156284-the-best-and-worst-sports-in-terms-of-sportsmanship

Just a couple of articles. I will get your ratings in a second as oppose to footballs ratings, give me a minute.

Exactly like I thought, not one of these articles support the fact the baseball is the lowest rated or watched sport in the United States. By pulling out an article about one World Series and one All-Star Game does not support the fact that baseball, is the lowest rated sport in the United States. All you are talking about is one game (Super Bowl, World Series, etc.), what does that have to do with sports ratings in its entirety? You can't tell me that baseball has higher ratings (viewers) than the WNBA, NHL, MLS, etc.

[Dolphins23]

Look at the superbowl/ world seires ratings. It says it all. Collin Cowherd says it best my friend. Now I'm not trying to down play the die hard fans. Because I know a lot of guys on here love the hobby of collecting there past time. And that I can appreciate. But its just the fact that the game itself is boring. The collecting is cool, but the game IMO ehhh.

[Dolphins23]

I said major sports

Football
basketball
hockey
baseball

And take the Marlins for instance. Some fan base 305 people at a game this year. My dolphins who play in the same stadium draw a lot more and they are horrid. Why is that?

[Shipp_96]

http://features.rr.com/article/07pJ79kbfH03S

http://reds.enquirer.com/2002/07/11/red_all-star_tv_ratings.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/156284-the-best-and-worst-sports-in-terms-of-sportsmanship

Just a couple of articles. I will get your ratings in a second as oppose to footballs ratings, give me a minute.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love Penn State football like nothing else out there :). But, your statement was baseball is the worst rated sport. That is clearly your opinion, and you are entitled to dislike baseball.

But to support your opinion as factual, you used an article that is from 2002? The other is a blog piece about sportsmanship that has nothing to do with ratings. Then you pulled one about the Super Bowl, that adds no merit to your argument at all. I do not believe anyone would argue the popularity of the NFL or the Super Bowl in America. The article about last year's World Series is the only one that is actually valid to your point. But that is one event, not an entire season of rating (playoffs, all star game, etc).

I tend to believe the NHL, NBA and MLS are clearly lower ranked than the MLB is. But that is my opinion ;).

[Dolphins23]

I know im going to take heat from all the baseball fans saying show me the proof and all that, but truth of the matter is they just don't want to accept the fact that baseball is on its way down every year. Until they develop a salary cap its going to continue to have no excitment for the avg city fan.

And what the Braves did to that girl was an absoulte joke and they took advantage of another baseball fan, just like they did the jeter 3000th kid. They just don't think of the fans and could care less.

[LastingsMilledge85]

And this is why baseball is where it is today. (Lowest ratings in the nation as far as sports)


I said major sports

Football
basketball
hockey
baseball

Not once you said that



And take the Marlins for instance. Some fan base 305 people at a game this year. My dolphins who play in the same stadium draw a lot more and they are horrid. Why is that?

The Marlins play how many home games in a season? 81. Your Dolphins? 0. The Miami Dolphins? 8. That's a big chunk as to why.

[Dolphins23]

http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3622:mlb-sees-tv-ratings-down-for-2009-regular-season&catid=57:television&Itemid=122


Heres another credited source. MLB itself!

[Dolphins23]

Not once you said that




The Marlins play how many home games in a season? 81. Your Dolphins? 0. The Miami Dolphins? 8. That's a big chunk as to why.


If the Dolphins played 1000 games there a season they would draw more then 300 fans.

[Shipp_96]

This is a great article that breaks down the MLB, NHL and NBA rankings by market. I think they do not include the NFL due to it's on top of all of them.

MLB does better in every market except LA, Boston (NBA), DC, Pittsburgh (NHL) in cities with both an MLB and NHL/NBA team.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2010/04/local-on-eights-ratings-for-nba-mlb-and/

[Dolphins23]

Lastings I understand you love baseball and your going to defend it and I would do the same if I loved the sport. So I'm not saying there are no fans out there. What I'm saying is the Avg fan will not watch a baseball game over a football fan. Not talking the Die hards who grew up going to the games and watching the games when they were great! That ended in the 90's for me though.

And If you can honestly say that the game is a better sport today than it was in 1980's than thats your opinion.


Now I ask Lastings. Is the sport better today? Or better back in the 80's-90's

[LastingsMilledge85]

If the Dolphins played 1000 games there a season they would draw more then 300 fans.

Is this a joke? 1000 games, I know you are exaggerating but your numbers are laughable. The Marlins averaged 18,770 fans per game in 2009 (2010 stats aren't released yet). It's going to take a lot more than 300 fans per game to reach that number. The Marlins are in the worst market for baseball, so you are comparing the worst team attendance to a middle-market NFL team.


Lastings I understand you love baseball and your going to defend it and I would do the same if I loved the sport. So I'm not saying there are no fans out there. What I'm saying is the Avg fan will not watch a baseball game over a football fan. Not talking the Die hards who grew up going to the games and watching the games when they were great! That ended in the 90's for me though.

I love baseball and football, but I'm going to stand behind sanity and realism. I'm not sticking up for baseball per say. There's a reason why I rarely post on here anymore, and posts like these speak volumes. But when I see ridiculous false statements on here, someone has to stand up.



Now I ask Lastings. Is the sport better today? Or better back in the 80's-90's

Well, the '90s was the steroids era, so the sport wasn't better, but the homeruns flocked people to the games and television. '80s? Wasn't watching.

[OaklandAsFan]

I said major sports

Football
basketball
hockey
baseball

And take the Marlins for instance. Some fan base 305 people at a game this year. My dolphins who play in the same stadium draw a lot more and they are horrid. Why is that?

well first and foremost you are talking about 81 home games a year vs 8 so of course more people are gonna show up.

[Dolphins23]

well first and foremost you are talking about 81 home games a year vs 8 so of course more people are gonna show up.

No I know you guys are right. I guess its a hard argument when dealing with opinions.

I just feel baseball dose not have the appeal to me that it once had. Just my opinion. I used to love baseball growing up because it was an outdoor summer sport that was awsome to go watch. But now I just can't stomach it anymore. I guess It's because I'm young and need more action to keep attention spane. They say with age you learn to appreciate the pace of baseball a lot more. So maybe when I'm in my 40's-50's (taken I live that long) I will appreciate the game more than I do now.

[Trublubrucru]

With the advent of digital cable, television ratings have become somewhat diluted. With 500 or so channels, the population base is spread out over many more choices than even ten years ago. Attention spans are not what they used to be either, too many choices and distractions. Personally, last season I never got through an entire NBA game, and I think NHL is unwatchable on t.v. A truer measure of the sport popularity might be attendance to games, check those figures.

[momen55]

ok. what about thew chipper ball trade? she shouldn't have gave in. screw them! i would have gone to the media or someone to bring this cheap stunt out.
the dumbies running mlb are nothing more than greedy bastards who don't care about anyone but themselves, and it is obvious and it shows. selig and everyone else are deadbeats.

[Trublubrucru]

Right back to topic. She was given the ball as a gift, and she decided to trade it away. She is sixteen and can make her own choice, its not a contract that wouldn't be binding to a minor. Sure the Braves were cheap with a couple lame gifts, but she could easily have said no thanks, it was a gift for her birthday.

I'll bet the guy who gave her the ball isn't too happy either

[freddiefreeman5]

I'm not sure if I have ever heard of a team giving a gift for a monumental baseball that was a fair trade.
What the Braves offered was not much but they are not doing anything the other teams don't do.

[BU54CB]

Right back to topic. She was given the ball as a gift, and she decided to trade it away. She is sixteen and can make her own choice, its not a contract that wouldn't be binding to a minor. Sure the Braves were cheap with a couple lame gifts, but she could easily have said no thanks, it was a gift for her birthday.

I'll bet the guy who gave her the ball isn't too happy either

Just because she made a choice doesn't make the whole situation right, and it also doesn't mean that she actually knew what she was doing.

[Astros1994]

I said major sports

Football
basketball
hockey
baseball

And take the Marlins for instance. Some fan base 305 people at a game this year. My dolphins who play in the same stadium draw a lot more and they are horrid. Why is that?

Just read the following article about the Dolphins and several of their sponsors who bought approximately 10,000 tickets for the game against the Texans. They then gave the tickets away for free. http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2011/09/15/miami-dolphins-game-vs-houston-texans-will-not-be-blacked-out/

[dplettn]

I certainly don’t know what exactly transpired when a deal was made between the 16 yr old (representing her own interests) and adults (representing Chippers’ interests). Whether her minor status is legally relevant or not, my experience with the Braves organization causes me to give the benefit of the doubt as to whether there was any intent to manipulate the teenager.


When I was young, I sold my ticket stub from a perfect game for a pittance. My error; and I wish it was a situation where I was giving something to a player or a member of his family, as this girl was. There is human pride in what this teen did, regardless of differences in market value.


I think the bigger issue is that what did or did not transpire when the girl (or her family) had financial regret. The ball was already in the players’ hands no doubt. Regardless, would be rather simple to exchange her autographed ball and hat for something else more to her liking. Doing so may have left everyone happy. What we all need to remember is that we don’t know exactly what transpired. Did the teen’s custodian approach the organization demanding three thousand dollars, or did they approach the organization with courtesy and in good taste?


It is not fair to make assumptions about anyone, including the organization IMHO. Once the minor and her family have the benefit of an attorney coaching their voice for the media we must all recognize that we can’t assume that voice is similar in taste to the voice that approached the team. Based on my experience with the team, I personally give the benefit of the doubt to how their personnel would have handled a practical request made in good taste.



Regardless, from a risk management perspective they no doubt wish that they had found common ground with the parents regardless as to whether the families approach for renegotiation was made in good taste or not.