Chris Andersen New Orleans Hornets Game jersey

[MileHighFan]

Thought I'd give a heads up on a suspicious Chris Andersen jersey listed on eBay last night. Looks like it has the potential to end at a decent price with all of the bids already, so I thought I'd share this just in case any members here were eyeing it up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-2008-CHRIS-ANDERSEN-NEW-ORLEANS-HORNETS-UN-USED-PRO-CUT-GAME-JERSEY-50-4-/320781282374?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab00dec46

Some red flags:

- Chris Andersen was suspended from the league for 2 years on January 25, 2006 while playing for the Hornets. He was reinstated on March 5, 2008 and re-signed by the New Orleans Hornets, so he did play for the Hornets at the end of the 2007-2008 season. However, when he was reinstated he wore #1, as #12, which he had worn for his first 2 seasons with the Hornets (2004-2005 & 2005-2006) prior to his suspension was being worn by Hilton Armstrong. (Armstrong played for the Hornets from the 2006-2007 season though the 2009-2010 season, and wore #12 for his duration with the team)

- The New Orleans Hornets did not wear the "OKC" patch during the 2007-2008 season; they wore a patch of their brand new "Fleur de Bee" secondary logo. The 2007-2008 season was the Hornets' first season back in New Orleans full-time, after being relocated to Oklahoma City for the 2005-2006 & 2006-2007 season after Hurricane Katrina, which was when the "OKC" patch was worn.

- I can't be positive on this, as I have yet to see a legit 2007-08 Chris Andersen game jersey, but I'm fairly sure the size is incorrect. In 2004-2005 & 2005-2006 while playing for the Hornets, Andersen wore a (Reebok) size 52+6 length. In 2008-09, he wore a (adidas) size 52+4 length with the Denver Nuggets.

Cliffs if you don't want to read above:
- Wrong number; Andersen wore #1 in the '07-'08 season, #12 was worn by Hilton Armstrong
- Hornets didn't wear "OKC" patch in '07-'08 season, only worn in '05-'06 & '07-'07 seasons
- Questionable player size

[otismalibu]

It's not advertised as game used. There are different interpretations as to what pro cut means, but often it's just a customized team blank.

[MileHighFan]

It's not advertised as game used. There are different interpretations as to what pro cut means, but often it's just a customized team blank.
I know, but the item description is somewhat vague and nowhere does the seller state that the jersey is customized in a couple ways. The way it has been bid up in less than a day of being listed, and 6+ days remaining, led me to believe that some buyers may be confused and believe that it's an actual game-issued Andersen jersey.

[trsent]

I know, but the item description is somewhat vague and nowhere does the seller state that the jersey is customized in a couple ways. The way it has been bid up in less than a day of being listed, and 6+ days remaining, led me to believe that some buyers may be confused and believe that it's an actual game-issued Andersen jersey.

I am confused, forum rules state if you have any questions about an item you first must email the seller with your concerns and wait 24 hours for a reply.

I am the seller of this jersey, and I have not received any such emails with the concerns posted by MileHighFan. Aren't forum rules set for a reason so I can first investigate their concerns and then make adjustments if an error was made?

This jersey is exactly what it is advertised as - A pro-cut game issued jersey. It was prepared for game use, never customized and I ended up with the jersey for sale as what it is. No one is trying to play any games - The jersey is exactly what you see in the pictures and description on eBay.

The jersey is 100% original, right from Adidas as they originally made it.


By the way, I generally answer emails within 20-30 minutes of receipt. You can email me any concerns in the future at the email address listed on every post I make on Game Used Forum or you can email me right through the eBay messaging system. If I take longer to reply, that generally means I am sleeping but generally I never go less than eight hours without answering all emails.

[MileHighFan]

I am confused, forum rules state if you have any questions about an item you first must email the seller with your concerns and wait 24 hours for a reply.

I am the seller of this jersey, and I have not received any such emails with the concerns posted by MileHighFan. Aren't forum rules set for a reason so I can first investigate their concerns and then make adjustments if an error was made?

This jersey is exactly what it is advertised as - A pro-cut game issued jersey. It was prepared for game use, never customized and I ended up with the jersey for sale as what it is. No one is trying to play any games - The jersey is exactly what you see in the pictures and description on eBay.

The jersey is 100% original, right from Adidas as they originally made it.


By the way, I generally answer emails within 20-30 minutes of receipt. You can email me any concerns in the future at the email address listed on every post I make on Game Used Forum or you can email me right through the eBay messaging system. If I take longer to reply, that generally means I am sleeping but generally I never go less than eight hours without answering all emails.

Here is the rule:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.My apologies--I will honestly admit that I was unaware of the contacting the seller recommedation; had I known, I would have done so prior to posting. However, your response still would have resulted in me starting a thread on the item, outlining facts as to why the jersey is questionable.

[trsent]

Here is the rule:
My apologies--I will honestly admit that I was unaware of the contacting the seller recommedation; had I known, I would have done so prior to posting. However, your response still would have resulted in me starting a thread on the item, outlining facts as to why the jersey is questionable.


The jersey is authentic. It may not be cut or have pathes you are looking for but it is 100% authentic right from Adidas. Please do not confuse people call this questionable when it is 100% original from Adidas.

I buy from teams who order jerseys on speculation of a player making a team and often those jerseys are not exact to what ends up on a players back. I sell original items and when I call an item game issued or pro-cut it doesn't mean that it ever made the players inventory. It was made for that player for some reason.

I will add details to the listing when I retun home later today.

[otismalibu]

I sell original items and when I call an item game issued or pro-cut it doesn't mean that it ever made the players inventory. It was made for that player for some reason.

You mean it was made into a jersey with that player's name & number?

To me, a game issued jersey was customized by the team for a particular player (player's size, length, customizations, etc.) and is identical to what they would wear in a game...it's just never been used.

[MileHighFan]

The jersey is authentic. It may not be cut or have pathes you are looking for but it is 100% authentic right from Adidas. Please do not confuse people call this questionable when it is 100% original from Adidas.
I am entitled to my opinion, no? Incorrect jersey number/player name combination & incorrect patch for the season a jersey is from, as well as no provenance, makes the jersey, in my opinion, questionable.

As long as I provide my reasoning, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to share my opinion.

[trsent]

I am entitled to my opinion, no? Incorrect jersey number/player name combination & incorrect patch for the season a jersey is from, as well as no provenance, makes the jersey, in my opinion, questionable.

As long as I provide my reasoning, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to share my opinion.

I appreciate your insight. I am just concerned you are confusing people claiming the jersey is questionable when it is a 100% licensed Adidas jersey and I don't want any questions over that.

Again, I have bought many jerseys right from the teams of players who never played a game but were possibly going to make the roster that were never customized for the season but in the team's inventory.

I will add information you provided to the listing today. I just want to be sure there is no confusion that the jersey is an authentic Adidas jersey, which it is. The jersey is a game issued pro-cut that was never used.

I just was originally upset as I was not contacted before the first post as I would have added the information you provided without having to come on here and debate it.

Finally, you are entitled to an opinion, but a jersey that was made by Adidas is not questionable to the authenticity. Too many knockoff jerseys out there these days and I am not selling anything that wasn't made by Adidas.

[trsent]

You mean it was made into a jersey with that player's name & number?

To me, a game issued jersey was customized by the team for a particular player (player's size, length, customizations, etc.) and is identical to what they would wear in a game...it's just never been used.

I have had game issued jerseys right from teams that are different sizes than a player would wear that were made in case a larger or smaller jersey were needed.

As for patches, again, pro-cut jerseys do not always have team patches as they were never used or put into circulation for use.

[MileHighFan]

I appreciate your insight. I am just concerned you are confusing people claiming the jersey is questionable when it is a 100% licensed Adidas jersey and I don't want any questions over that.

Again, I have bought many jerseys right from the teams of players who never played a game but were possibly going to make the roster that were never customized for the season but in the team's inventory.

I will add information you provided to the listing today. I just want to be sure there is no confusion that the jersey is an authentic Adidas jersey, which it is. The jersey is a game issued pro-cut that was never used.

I just was originally upset as I was not contacted before the first post as I would have added the information you provided without having to come on here and debate it.

Finally, you are entitled to an opinion, but a jersey that was made by Adidas is not questionable to the authenticity. Too many knockoff jerseys out there these days and I am not selling anything that wasn't made by Adidas.

I appreciate your insight. I am just concerned you are confusing people claiming the jersey is questionable when it is a 100% licensed Adidas jersey and I don't want any questions over that.

Again, I have bought many jerseys right from the teams of players who never played a game but were possibly going to make the roster that were never customized for the season but in the team's inventory.

I will add information you provided to the listing today. I just want to be sure there is no confusion that the jersey is an authentic Adidas jersey, which it is. The jersey is a game issued pro-cut that was never used.

I just was originally upset as I was not contacted before the first post as I would have added the information you provided without having to come on here and debate it.

Finally, you are entitled to an opinion, but a jersey that was made by Adidas is not questionable to the authenticity. Too many knockoff jerseys out there these days and I am not selling anything that wasn't made by Adidas.
I apologize for not contacting you first; I did not know of the recommendation in the rules, and honestly, I did not expect the seller to be a member on here. I've now seen that you post quite often, but I don't really frequent the boards as there isn't much basketball discussed on here. I do appreciate your openness & mature attitude towards the questions that arose from me about your item.

I never meant to come off as saying your jersey was a counterfeit; if I at any point came off that way, again, my apologies. I simply meant the jersey was "suspicious" and "questionable", in my opinion, as have alterations to the name or number and patches, and not being sent to or prepared as is for the Hornets.

This is my main concern about the jersey:

In January of 2006, Andersen was banned from the league for 2 years for testing positive for a "drug of abuse". (His contract with the Hornets was void) There was never any prospect of him returning before early 2008 calendar year. On January 28, 2006 the Hornets drafted Hilton Armstrong. Armstrong chose to wear the vacated #12, as Andersen was no longer with the team.

June 29, 2006 press conference photo introducing Hilton Armstrong (Getty Editorial #71336838)
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu336/MileHighFan_JerseyCentral/Draft_06.jpg

Andersen was out of the league for the entire 2006-2007 NBA season (not under contract with any team). Hilton Armstrong continued to wear #12.

December 11, 2006 on-court photo of Hilton Armstrong in the 2006-2007 NBA Season (Getty Editorial #72987032)
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu336/MileHighFan_JerseyCentral/Armstrong07.jpg

Chris Andersen was re-instated by the NBA on March 4, 2008. That is when there is just a little over a month left in the regular season, and Hilton Armstrong had been wearing the #12 for the entire season. The Hornets signed Chris Andersen to a new contract on March 5, 2008 and he chose to wear #1. There's no reason why a #12 jersey would be made up for Andersen as it had already been occupied by Hilton for the entire season when Andersen returned at the end, as well as the full prior season. Not to mention, a patch that had not been worn on a jersey since April, 2007 being placed on a jersey in March, 2008.

Here's a photo of Hilton Armstrong in the 2007-08 season. (Getty Editorial #81026419)
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu336/MileHighFan_JerseyCentral/Armstrong07-1.jpg

Here's a photo from the press conference to introduce Andersen on March 5, 2008, the day after he was reinstated by the NBA and the day he was signed by the Hornets holding his #1 jersey with the "Fleur de Bee" patch. (Getty Editorail #80136159)
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu336/MileHighFan_JerseyCentral/Andersen_Presser.jpg

And here's a photo of him from in-game action during the 2007-2008 season on March 28, 2008. (Getty Editorial # 80597670)
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/uu336/MileHighFan_JerseyCentral/80597670.jpg

Hopefully this helps to get across what I'm trying to say about the jersey.

- It makes no sense for a 2007-2008 Chris Andersen #12 jersey to exist. When Andersen was reinstated in March of 2008, the Hornets had 22 games left in the season. That means Hilton Armstrong had worn #12 for 60 games that season, as well as the entire prior season. (2006-2007) And the day after Andersen was reinstated, a jersey with his newly chosen #1 had been prepared for his press conference.

- I know sometimes game-issued or pro-cut jerseys are missing patches--but this jersey has the WRONG patch. The Hornets wore the "Fleur de Bee" logo patch the entire 2007-2008 season, from October-May. The OKC patch was last worn in April of 2007, almost a full year before Andersen was signed by the team in the 2007-2008 season.

- I know sometimes players change sizes or different sizes are created for whatever reasons, but when I see a size unknown to that player, along with some other features of the jersey which, in my opinion, are suspect, I don't believe the jersey was customized by Adidas. By customized I mean the player name & numbers, as well as the patch, were swen onto the jersey by Adidas or anybody affiliated with the NBA or Hornets organization. I have no doubt in my mind the Adidas jersey body is 100% authentic; I just doubt that this jersey was customized by somebody affiliated with the NBA.

[trsent]

I apologize for not contacting you first; I did not know of the recommendation in the rules, and honestly, I did not expect the seller to be a member on here. I've now seen that you post quite often, but I don't really frequent the boards as there isn't much basketball discussed on here. I do appreciate your openness & mature attitude towards the questions that arose from me about your item.

I never meant to come off as saying your jersey was a counterfeit; if I at any point came off that way, again, my apologies. I simply meant the jersey was "suspicious" and "questionable", in my opinion, as have alterations to the name or number and patches, and not being sent to or prepared as is for the Hornets.

This is my main concern about the jersey:

In January of 2006, Andersen was banned from the league for 2 years for testing positive for a "drug of abuse". (His contract with the Hornets was void) There was never any prospect of him returning before early 2008 calendar year. On January 28, 2006 the Hornets drafted Hilton Armstrong. Armstrong chose to wear the vacated #12, as Andersen was no longer with the team.

June 29, 2006 press conference photo introducing Hilton Armstrong (Getty Editorial #71336838)

Andersen was out of the league for the entire 2006-2007 NBA season (not under contract with any team). Hilton Armstrong continued to wear #12.

December 11, 2006 on-court photo of Hilton Armstrong in the 2006-2007 NBA Season (Getty Editorial #72987032)

Chris Andersen was re-instated by the NBA on March 4, 2008. That is when there is just a little over a month left in the regular season, and Hilton Armstrong had been wearing the #12 for the entire season. The Hornets signed Chris Andersen to a new contract on March 5, 2008 and he chose to wear #1. There's no reason why a #12 jersey would be made up for Andersen as it had already been occupied by Hilton for the entire season when Andersen returned at the end, as well as the full prior season. Not to mention, a patch that had not been worn on a jersey since April, 2007 being placed on a jersey in March, 2008.

Here's a photo of Hilton Armstrong in the 2007-08 season. (Getty Editorial #81026419)

Here's a photo from the press conference to introduce Andersen on March 5, 2008, the day after he was reinstated by the NBA and the day he was signed by the Hornets holding his #1 jersey with the "Fleur de Bee" patch. (Getty Editorail #80136159)

And here's a photo of him from in-game action during the 2007-2008 season on March 28, 2008. (Getty Editorial # 80597670)

Hopefully this helps to get across what I'm trying to say about the jersey.

- It makes no sense for a 2007-2008 Chris Andersen #12 jersey to exist. When Andersen was reinstated in March of 2008, the Hornets had 22 games left in the season. That means Hilton Armstrong had worn #12 for 60 games that season, as well as the entire prior season. (2006-2007) And the day after Andersen was reinstated, a jersey with his newly chosen #1 had been prepared for his press conference.

- I know sometimes game-issued or pro-cut jerseys are missing patches--but this jersey has the WRONG patch. The Hornets wore the "Fleur de Bee" logo patch the entire 2007-2008 season, from October-May. The OKC patch was last worn in April of 2007, almost a full year before Andersen was signed by the team in the 2007-2008 season.

- I know sometimes players change sizes or different sizes are created for whatever reasons, but when I see a size unknown to that player, along with some other features of the jersey which, in my opinion, are suspect, I don't believe the jersey was customized by Adidas. By customized I mean the player name & numbers, as well as the patch, were swen onto the jersey by Adidas or anybody affiliated with the NBA or Hornets organization. I have no doubt in my mind the Adidas jersey body is 100% authentic; I just doubt that this jersey was customized by somebody affiliated with the NBA.

Very interesting information. I have no idea why a pro-cut jersey was made for Anderson as I own. It is quite odd based on everything you have shown. I don't have enough history about the item to add any more. The jersey is strange as it has the OKC patch and I do not know why it was made but the jersey is an original Adidas jersey, possibly made this way by Adidas for whatever reason.

The jersey is not being sold as a game used jersey, just a pro-cut game jersey and I did add to the description and hopefully there is no confusion.

[MileHighFan]

Very interesting information. I have no idea why a pro-cut jersey was made for Anderson as I own. It is quite odd based on everything you have shown. I don't have enough history about the item to add any more. The jersey is strange as it has the OKC patch and I do not know why it was made but the jersey is an original Adidas jersey, possibly made this way by Adidas for whatever reason.

The jersey is not being sold as a game used jersey, just a pro-cut game jersey and I did add to the description and hopefully there is no confusion.
Thanks again for answering all the questions openly. I collect Andersen memorabilia, and as you can tell, when I saw this jersey, many questions arose in my mind. (I was hopefully able to clearly explain why they arose)

Again, apologies for not contacting you first--I didn't create this thread with malicious intentions; just to share my opinion of an item based on timelined facts with potential buyers. Hopefully, with information I've provided, my opinion did not seem out of line.

[trsent]

Thanks again for answering all the questions openly. I collect Andersen memorabilia, and as you can tell, when I saw this jersey, many questions arose in my mind. (I was hopefully able to clearly explain why they arose)

Again, apologies for not contacting you first--I didn't create this thread with malicious intentions; just to share my opinion of an item based on timelined facts with potential buyers. Hopefully, with information I've provided, my opinion did not seem out of line.

No worries. I was just upset I wasn't emailed in advance. I appreciate the insight, it was very educational!